Hello friends,

STBX is bringing OW with him on holidays at Christmas so she can meet the kids and family (how nice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) I am REALLY not wanting to lay eyes on her. I knew her, even introduced them, and I guess I have a lot of unresolved anger towards them both for the whole situation.

I am very concerned for my kids, because his plan is to take them for about a week and stay in motels with them and HER. I do not like this idea at ALL. We are not divorced and are not likely to be by then. Courts are taking their time, or HE is, I don't know anymore.

Anyway, while I accept the inevitable fact that he and she will be playing happy families, I just do NOT want to deal with her, see her, even if she is sitting in the car. I do not trust myself to contain the anger I feel within. I really think I would want to give her an uppercut, and once I started I don't think I could stop. Well, not really, but my emotions are running rampant <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> .

I want to tell him not to bring her anywhere near me, not even waiting in the car. I don't know how to tell him this in a way that he will accept it. This is very important to me...please do not tell me to accept that I will have to see her one day...maybe I will, but NOT NOW.

Dropping the kids with someone neutral is not an option...no-one neutral lives near enough to me to make it practical.

Help me tell him what I want, please. I NEED to do this.

love and light,

Jacky

To spite what the lunatic foggy may try to angrily convince you, it is in NO way unreasonable for you not to want to see her. It is in no way unreasonable for you not to want to see him, either! You may not have a choice in the week, if it's court agreed, but remember...children are SMART. I sometimes think they're smarter than adults, 'cause the hormones haven't kicked in yet. You don't have to pretend you approve of the other woman being there...they won't. And they'll remember it later...his loss.

Make some nice relaxing plans for yourself for the week, if at all possible. Do something you can't usually do with the kids around. Then I'd have a neighbor come over, kiss the kids, tell them how much I loved and would miss them, give them the numbers where I'd be reachable for the week, and LEAVE...at least until the X and the OW have come and gone!

My STBX tried bring the OW to a school function with me and Son THREE WEEKS after he moved out. Said he "didn't know that what he did was so wrong!", so I said "then you are a flippin' MORON." He's been paying for it ever since...our son still won't be around her.

Nina too-

Is this THE ow? I know how you feel, and totally agree. How soon is this for the kids? All you can do is appeal to his sense of decency.
I agree TOTALLY with The New ME- don't be there. Make it PLAIN to your stbx that you do not in any way endorse any of this.
On the other hand, the kids may be good for them. Kids are a great leveller, and it may be that soon your stbx will tell you that the kids + OW is NOT a good idea
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I WILL NOT tell you that someday you will have to accept her! NO WAY! Where is it written?
My ex was so desperate at some point that I meet & LIKE her BF (duh?), who was also OM before divorce, I find all this just UNBELIEVABLE! You DON'T HAVE to! dON'T LET anyone BAMBOOZLE you into thinking that you have to, just because we're all decent & civilised human beings, and forgiving Christians. Your husband is the father of your children. She is NOTHING.

muzohead

Thanks for replies so far.

The New Me: This OW met the kids ten weeks after he left, without my knowledge, and I thought THAT was way to soon! Three weeks! Sheesh!

I do not really know the neighbours well enough to impose this kind of thing on them. I will give it some thought however, and maybe I could get one of my friends to come over, a friend that he does not know. (Although that might be difficult considering the time of year) That may be the best way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . But making me run from my own home makes me angry.

Muzo, thanks for your encouraging words. Yes it is THE OW, the one he left us for, is living with overseas and split from and reunited with a few weeks ago....or lied about that bit, who knows. The three times married and divorced gold digging passport seeking OW, yep, HER. Ms Clickety Clack is her new nickname to me. Well, the one I can print here anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I KNOW I do not have to endorse their relationship, and I do not want to, but if I get upset and angry about it in front of the kids, they will be in pain too. It is a catch 22. I intend, when they are finally TOLD his plans (cos he hasn't told them yet, and I have let that be his responsibility...another issue), to tell them that I am not happy about it, but he is their father, yadda, yadda. And they will know how upset I am without even saying a word anyhow. Since all this happened they watch me like little hawks, and know how I am feeling all the time.

I feel powerless. Like it is okay to go ahead and do whatever you like these days and it doesn't matter who you step on to get what you want. That just sucks.

His mother said to me recently "As long as you are alright dear." I just looked her in the eye and said "No. I am not alright with this (Christmas, OW, etc) I will NEVER be alright with it. I have to cope and raise my children, so I put on a face. I know I cannot change what he has done, and I know I can't do anything about it. But there is NO WAY I have to like it." Poor lady, she got quite a shock when I said that, but if you haven't been through this, you just don't understand.

Rambling again, sigh....well how do I tell stbx that I do not want to see her at all? How do I put it without it seeming petty, like a threat, manipulative or pathetic?

Love and light and thanks again,

Jacky

Nina,

I think you have every right and responsibility to yourself to avoid contact with her. There is no reason that she needs to come to your house when he picks up your children. He can leave her at his house then pick up the kids, then go back and pick her up. He can drop her off at a restraunt and pick her up on the way out. There are alot of ways that this can be handled so that your self preserved and he can get what he wants as well.

I am afraid that if he has decided that he is going to stay with her and your children in hotels, as much as I hate that and I think that it is wrong in every way, with the laws the way they are and the way that your husband has no respect for you, I am afraid that you can do nothing about it. I guess I would recommend that you simply do your best to NOT try to change it. I would calmly tell him your concerns and that you think that he is sending the wrong message to your children. That even though he feels that being married and being with another person is OK, would he think it is OK if his children's spouse did the same thing. Don't harp on him, but try to reach his sensibilities, as miniscule as they may be.

I think that it is very fair for you to ask him directly to refrain from bringing her to your house. Even if she stays in the car. Just tell him point blank that it makes you feel bad and that he has no reason to make you feel worse in your own home. While you can't accept his relationship, you relize that you cannot alter it. But you can demand that he respect his relationship with you in so much as he does not bring her around you, expecially at your own house. If he cannot do this, then you may need to seek legal protection for yourself and your emotions.

He should be able to understand, but who knows what WSs are capable of understanding. They tend to think they are the only people on earth. But I would try it. Explain it as calmly and flattly as possible. Try your absolute best to keep your anger out of the conversation. Go in with a certain goal and say it and get out. DON'T CHAT WITH HIM, OR TALK ABOUT OTHER THINGS. This will only open you up to the opportunity to get angry and thereby hurting your goal of that discussion. Which is to keep her away from your house when he comes to pick up the kids.

Hi Nina2! It's good to see your Post, although sorry it's under these circumstances. I can only tell you how I'd handle it - were it me:
"No, you may NOT bring OW with you to pick up OUR children. If you so choose to sleep in Hotels/Motels with them for the time you are here, I INSIST that they have a separate room, as they are NOT to be subjected to whatever it is you and Ms. Whore do together in bed. If you can't or won't honour my wishes, then I'm letting the Judge decide..."
Hope this helps.
Peace, Love, some Light right back at ya, and a few HugZ thrown in too!
Harold

I'd suggest that she stay at the hotel when he comes to pick up the children. There's no need for her to be present.
Good Luck.

Nina,

Here are my 2-bits worth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I agree especially with part of what DJT-Bird said: you have EVERY right to tell him that she is NOT to be present when he picks up your children. That's only simple common sense after all! What he thinks about it IS NOT YOUR CONCERN - that's his problem. Your place is to take care of yourself now, to create an environment where you can be the best person, loving mother possible for your children, and expecting your WH not to bring his OW to your home is a no-brainer!!! If it were me, I'd fight him taking the kids on a trip with her as well. Of course that really depends on the age of your kids, etc.

I strongly believe that when our WS are in the process of tearing down and ripping up families and loved ones for their own selfish temporary pleasures, THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO INVOLVE THE CHILDREN. Or expose them to the OP. My WH and I taught our children Godly principles all their lives (sex within marriage, NO sexual permiscuity, affairs were sinful, etc.) so for him to BLATANTLY want to pretend OUR children and he and OW are a happy little family, even and especially BEFORE the legal divorce was finished.....I THINK NOT! Our children are old enough that he couldn't even attempt that, as there's no way they would have agreed to that.

Children need time to adjust and to filter and to sort out the whole ****ty mess. As far as I can tell, to force them (kids and OP) together in the early stages of breakup, or to insist on holidaying together while still married to their other parent, is about as stupid and insensitive as they could be. But then WS aren't exactly big on 'sensitivity' are they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> In my case WH and OW were out pretending to be the 'happy little family' within a MONTH of her leaving her home and bribing her son to move in with her! So this poor kid has lost life completely as he's ever known it: lost his home, separated from his father and sibling, into a new home with mom, and now enter boyfriend. ALL WITHIN A MONTH. My vote is, stand up and fight for what is right. You can't stop WH from leaving, you can't stop him from an affair, BUT you can insist that YOUR moral values and beliefs (the ones you've taught your children) be adherred to as much as possible. Which means, don't expose kids to daddy and OW in same room/bed before they are legally married. Simple.

Hey, lady!

How are ya! Long time not talk! {{{{{Jacky}}}}}

Okay, my answer is not going to be an answer that you are going to like to hear, but it is the truth and it is coming from a friend who admires you GREATLY and loves you. You have taken the high road throughout this whole ordeal, and let's get real...he had taken the low road the entire time. So, to expect him now to suddenly care about you or how you feel is just unrealistic. I love you, Jacky, but he does not care what this does to you. I'm not telling you this to hurt you, but to be honest.

Now, if you start from the position that he is not going to care about how you feel--and really, he does not care or know about how this has affected the kids--then you can accept another reality too. You can not control what he does...who he does it with...when he does it...or ANYTHING. You can not tell him when to bring her and when not to. He is a [censored] (let me repeat that--a [censored]) and he will do whatever he darn well pleases no matter who it hurts or affects. Furthermore, he could not care less what you give him "permission" to do.

Here, let me give you a hug and a kleenex, because I know it hurts and it sucks to hear the truth, doesn't it??
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Jacky}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

No matter what you say, no matter what you demand or how you present it, he is going to do what he wants to do! He is GOING to have Ms. Clackety Clack in his life, and since he donated his sperm to create your lovely children, he is going to be part of THEIR lives. You just can not stop him.

So my suggestion is to control YOU. You can set YOUR boundaries and YOUR limits. She is not allowed in your home under any circumstances and any attempt to do so will result in calling the police...period. She is not allowed on your property...period. You will not talk to her under any circumstances for any reason...period. When he picks up the kids, you do not want to talk to him about ANYTHING except the kids' itinerary and when you can talk to them during this holiday--and you would prefer THAT to just be in writing. You can set your own limits and BY GOD enforce them!!!! You can tell him what YOU will accept and where your line is drawn, and furthermore, what the consequence will be. Jacky, you are allowed to be in charge of what YOU will and will not accept!

You can also set SOME limits for the kids but not while they are in his custody/care. For example, I like DJ-Bird's idea about insisting that, if he is going to be in hotels/motels with them, the kids have their own seperate room so they are not exposed to adultery--and if he refuses, let the judge decide impartially. You might need to ask your lawyer (adjudicator??) if there are legal ways of restraining him from having the kids in the very same room as his adulterous lover. And yes, hon, think of it EXACTLY THAT WAY. Detached, but factual. You can NOT stop him from being with the witch in a hotel with your kids...but you CAN stop him from exposing the kids to THEIR sex life.

You can also teach the kids NOW...while you have them...what is right and wrong and what hurts people and what doesn't. They are little, so they will not have an adult understanding of infidelity no matter what you do, but they can understand that daddy's are not supposed to replace mommy's with someone else. Most importantly, though, if I were you I would talk to them about good touch and bad touch, and how to contact you if they ever feel "weird" or uncomfortable, and how to contact you if they feel homesick or sad, and how to talk to their dad about their feelings.

BUT you can not set limits for either him or her. If they are going to go down in flames, you can not stop them. You have to detach and let them burn up. And what REALLY sucks is that maybe they will play house for a while and decide they want to pretend to be a family with your kids...on a part-time basis whenever it is convenient for them...

What CR*P! I'm so sorry, Jacky!! {{{{{Jacky}}}}}

CJ

Petal,

The answer is in your title.

This is killing you!..... Its not bothering them in the least...

I know easier said than done...but you must move past this for your happiness sake..

Love and kisses...

Randy

Nina Too-
Who gives a continental #$% how you come across when you tell him? Do you really care how he views you when you tell him how you feel? JUST TELL HIM.

Suggestion1-
" I know I can't control who you see when you're with the kids, but that woman is never going to be welcome in my house, nor do I want to be socially nice to her. I won't make a scene, but I will not have company with her, where it can be avoided. If she's in the same location, I will ignore her, for all intents and purposes- she does not exist for me."

Suggestion2
"Tell OW that I think she is less than garbage in my eyes, and that I have NO inclination for even a superficially polite relationship with her. Tell her that if she speaks to me, I will ignore her"
If he DARES to tell her this, you will have gotten some message across to her as well- you CAN assume moral high ground in this instance.

Suggestion3
"OW will never be a friend of mine ever again- nor are we- we simply share the kids as parents"

My thinking is this- the reason you're struggling with this is because you still have a friendly relationship with the stbx- do you think that you're in danger of losing this if you come across hard-a$$ed? I don't think so- have the courage to say exactly what you feel. Deep inside, the WS' still have some of what we married them for-
My EX has said SO many times to me- "..further than that, I have nothing to say to you..."
or
"....I think it best if we stay out of each other's business"
or
"...I don't think we can be friends now- speak to me only about the kids..."

Usually the day after that happens, she's inviting me for coffee, or supper, or just wants to chat…as if we NEVER had ANY disagreements at all!
You owe him NO consideration- wondering how he'd view you- WS's often use emotional blackmail to force us into certain modes of behaviour- usually those which suit THEM.
Don't capitulate to this kind of foggy sollogistically faulted reasoning. Just tell him

Go for it!
muzohead

Thank you to EVERY ONE of you who responded to my plea for help. I read all responses, which pretty much said the same thing....take a stand on this Jacky, write to him and tell him you aren't gonna do that....and I did.

I wrote him a letter telling it how it is. You guys may not agree with the tone of it since I am supposed to be in Plan B, but there comes a time when you have to evaluate whether straight Plan A or B is the THING for your X, and so I wrote from the heart, and as honestly and as anti-LB as I could possibly do in the circumstances. I do not know why I GIVE a hoot about LB'ing anymore, but I do. I guess it is because as Faithfulwife said, I have taken the HIGH ROAD for so long now...it is habit. I just did not want any repercussions from what I wrote - translate the word repercussion as s***. The letter I sent is here:

This is the hardest letter I have had to write to you. I think that is because I am afraid you will not understand my feelings, and I worry that you will disregard them. But I think that you should know how I feel and my point of view on Christmas, and hopefully we can arrange things with minimum hurt and disruption.

Whether you know it or not, I am not ‘over’ our marriage, relationship, affairs, and impending divorce. Grieving times for people is of differing durations. Situations arise all the time that bring back the pain of this whole thing, and Christmas is one of those things. I cannot stress enough that what I am about to say is not motivated by anything else other than my pain. But here is it.

I cannot face the prospect of seeing you and her together with our kids. I just cannot do it, no way. It is still way too much for me, and even the mere thought of it is killing me all over again. I do not want to lay eyes on her at all. As far as I am concerned, she has one-third responsibility for the failure of our marriage, and that is unforgivable. Yes that is anger talking, but also pain. I do not want it in my face.

To that end, I am asking that you do not bring her into the vicinity of my house. That means not having her wait in the car. I do not want to set eyes on her. I am truly afraid of my reaction to that, and I do not want to blow up in front of the children. Maybe she can wait at McDonald’s or a park or something? If you do not want to do this, I will have to arrange for someone else to be here when you pick up the kids, every time, because I cannot face it, but I would rather not be made to leave my own home. I just can’t do this, X, and if you never understood a thing about me before, please try to understand this.

As for your living arrangements while on holiday with the kids...I trust that the kids will be in a separate room from you both, and you will be keeping your sleeping arrangements from them. We are not divorced yet, and I do not like the moral messages being sent to our kids over this holiday. While I cannot decline permission for you to have them, I believe I have a moral obligation to request this on their behalf. They do not need to know about your sex life. Our son is well aware that we are still married, and whether you feel it matters or not, it matters to him. I suggest that you ask your parents to have the kids stay there over the nights you need. Morally, this is the best solution.

Please do not reply back telling me all about how this your new life and I will just have to accept it. I know that already. I am trying to. But if there are ways that I can protect myself and the children from pain, I will do my best to bring that about.

One more thing. I was wondering when you are going to tell the kids of your plans? I think it is wise to give them enough time to get used to the idea of having to share you well before you get here. Would you let me know beforehand so I can be prepared to comfort them if need be.

Jacky

And he wrote back within the hour:



Jack,

I fully concur with the arrangements you are suggesting, both for your own feelings and those of the kids. We do not want you to be unduly put under stress, there is no advantage in that for anyone. We have already discussed this and thought that we would handle it the same way that you have suggested.

I do ask if you would mind letting me into your house to see their bedrooms, watch the kids in their own environment, have a bit of play with them and their own stuff like I did last time. Its not a check up, as I know that you are a great Mum, its just a way for me to stay connected with them, and to appreciate what they are doing in their lives.

I am talking to the kids today, but I will tell the kids next week when I ring for the first time.

I am truly sorry that this is affecting and hurting you. I really do want you to have the best of lives possible.

Regards,

X

I F****** HATE how he writes 'regards'. He used to write that on business letters only <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . And the use of the word WE.....oh so cosy. And get the last bit will ya? It took every OUNCE of strength NOT to BLAST him for that one! However, I kinda seem to be getting what I wanted, so I ignored all of that and replied:


Thanks for the quick reply, and your appreciation of my feelings and those of the kids.

Can you make it clearer as to what pick up arrangements will be like...will you be arriving here on your own, or do I have to make other arrangements? What exactly will be happening with the kids accomodations?

You are welcome to visit the kids and I here as long as you are alone. It is important for the kids to see you and I working as a parenting team where we can.

Jacky

No reply yet and it has been about 7 hours with a phone call in between to the kids.....he DID actually ask if I wanted to talk to him: I was here and I heard it. I declined. Oh I am so glad I did now, hehe.

So guys, sorry for the long post. I have dilemmas still in my head....like the OW seems to be second guessing me. Natural I suppose if you have been divorced three times. It is like she KNEW I would have these concerns, so SHE and him discussed it before it even came up, making her look REAL good to him. I hate this.

And to think, I do not even want the sucker back.

Love and light,

Jacky

Oh I know, I know...who ever DREAMED we'd be in these trashy situations? It was less than a year ago, when my STBX was first discussing his desire to "move out and find himself", that I sobbed my fears of my son having a stepmother, and he told me I should not worry, he was not even interested, he would not do that for a long, long time.

Of course I didn't realize he'd already FOUND his next wife....15 years younger (25) with two divorces under her belt already. They've started building a house and my STBX thinks he's snuck my son's old baseball gear out of the house without me noticing, because his NEW son might be interested in playing. Now mind you, he can't even file for a divorce from me until January.

I swear, it doesn't even hurt for me anymore...I'd rather kill him than look at him. But I sure would welcome ideas on how to help my son...I don't want him thinking this trash is how to live, but even worse, I don't want him to be thrown over by a father who wants a jock and not a brain for a son...

Jacky,

You are such an admirable lady.

However, in dealing with ms. clickety clack, I would make it clear that if your wH comes over to visit, see the kids as he put it, in their environment, then ms. clickety clack must stay elsewhere during this. YOU STAY PUT. IT IS YOUR HOUSE. And he must understand that HIS CHILDREN UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THEY WILL NOT ACCEPT MS. CLICKETY CLACK.

She is just not going to be the loving step mom to be, sorry, she is selfish and self centered. What kind of woman would encourage a man to live on a different continent than his kids if she really loved him? Answer: A selfish adulteress. And you say that you don't care what he and ms. clickety clack say, you are primary custodian of the children and your say is final. If any hanky panky in front of the kids, the judge will smack his gavel down really hard on his...well...head. lmao!

Glad you didn't talk to him. He is a waffler. Their A should be really sputtering now btw. It is in the open. They usually don't last when light of day rears its ugly head too terribly long. Remember how ms. monkey dumped Austin 3 months ago? Still dumped. He didn't get divorced fast enough for her gold digging, silicone injected self absorbed pharmaceutical sales pimpin'. Sorry for that vent. But now some other guy, probably married too as were her last four, is having to deal with the monkey now. And she still will not get away with having to give her affidavit and testimony. Sorry but the monkey doesn't get the banana in the end. Their affair may be over, but she will still have to tell the truth to the court or she will be in contempt. I already hold her in contempt btw, lmao..

I am exhausted and feeling "crabby tonight". Just built an aquarium habitat for son's stupid pet that austin brought him from the beach.

Hi Jacky, I think you did the best you could and we're very 'controlled' considering how much it hurt. Of course it will take a while to get over someone even if you don't want him back - your human right? The fact that he seems to have 'moved on' so quick just shows the fog he's in, it has to come back and get him someday, the poor fella won't know what's wrong with him.

The main point though is you did what you had to do to protect yourself. Don't worry about what they think or have been thinking. The main thing is you and your kids.

TNM....Regarding finding the new partner before they leave...it has been shown by statistics somewhere that nearly everyone who leaves a marriage has someone else on the side (abusive and dangerous situations excepted). Well, I KNEW he had another woman, even knew who it was since they blatently flirted in front of me...but he denied until the cows came home, and only told me they were together when he first said he was bringing her here for Christmas (though I had proof last October). I just found out that he told his PARENTS that she was on the scene before he left me...he has NEVER said that to me, never...denial all the way. SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Not Peachy, their affair did a little sputter a few weeks ago...they split up for two whole weeks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I know why and I will tell you if you are interested. I was the very first person he told....go figure. I SO want to email her and tell her that, cos I am sure HE didn't.

Seahorse....control, yeah, that is what I had to have. I am tired of his stupid games. He has a new one now. It is called 'making a big deal of our nine year old son getting an earring'. He went as far as to say it was trashy, and told me to take it out of son's ear before he becomes too attached to it....I mean WTF? He has not wanted ANY input as to how I raise the kids, yet he is really angry our son has an earring, tho takes TWO WEEKS since knowing about this piercing to let me know about it? UGH. Probably took him that long to compose the email. Gosh, you should see it......it is so condescending! Anyway I didn't even reply to that, because I would be sarcastic or something and in my opinion it isn't worth it. I have a sneaky feeling he will write again before he gets here and try to make me take the earring out. And if I don't he will take it out when he gets here.....this man is seriously SICK. Am I wrong here? Son has an earring because it is cool, and he wants to fit in....

I WISH I could stop going over things in my mind. I am doing okay, living my life, glad to be away from him, and YET....him and OW play on my mind all the time. Sister in law told me how MUCH OW is looking forward to meeting her....she said they sound like they have a lot in common. They have even spoken together in a three way conversation....oh how CHUMMY. I was crushed by this. OW is taking over my family!!! SIL is shrewd however, and ought to work out OW in five seconds flat when she sees her.

Well, back to the grind, I suppose, thanks for replies, and thanks for support. The closer Christmas gets, the worse I feel...I cannot help it. I want to scream!!!!!!!!!!! I think I am going to be here a lot!

Love and light to you all,

Jacky

Let that child keep his earring...I'm in such an "oh my poor baby" mode that I'm praying my son doesn't ask for a tatoo...

And I'm wondering what the statistics say about the divorce rate of those marriages where one or both partners left their spouses to hook up?

Oh I wish I didn't care! I want so badly to say "nyah, nyah, nyah, see I told you you were a moron" and I'm sure God is angry with me over this...

Concerning the in-laws...I have custody of the ONLY grandchild. STBX is not interested in visiting his family in another state...he would have to take time away from the Love Nest. Therefore if they see grandchild/nephew, guess who takes him? So I got custody of the in-laws too...

STBX went to Florida to meet her parents...I'm going to visit the family this weekend...he's still telling them there was no other woman involved...anyone want to tell me how I'm going to manage to keep my mouth shut and take the moral high road on this trip?

the New Me,

I'm not sure why you want to take the 'moral high road?'.. Is NOT telling the truth as you know it morally right? If he's involved with OW why would you be covering up for him? It's a fact, it's out in the open, what's the big secret? I'm not suggesting you need to be out there trashing OW, but why protect WH? What's to be gained by that? YOU did nothing wrong; it's his life, and why should you try to hide it? I don't understand that line of thinking.
If our WS want to be involved in affairs, we can't stop them, but I'm damned if I'm going to cover up for them!

Nina too.

I'm so thrilled that you wrote you your WH the letter! That took courage, and self respect. GOOD FOR YOU! You know, I think getting over the caring is simply a 'time and prayer' thing. I have days where I seem to get obsessive about all the questions, wonderings, etc., but I'm finding that I'm also having many days (sometimes weeks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) when God grants me the peace to let go and move on with my life. I take ALL my comfort in knowing that God KNOWS MY HEART, knows that I never Knowingly or spitefully withheld what my WH needed, knows that I DID ALL I COULD, and that all I can do now is pray for WH and leave that heartache at the foot of the cross. I really believe we need to try and release from the emotional captivity of the pain, and focus on God and our relationship with him first and foremost.

I also believe that the more we've suffered and allowed God to walk with us during those trials, the more we come to know the heart of God, and the better prepared we will be to do God's will. We can learn and grow through heartache or we can choose to wither up and die. It's NOT a linear pathway, and certainly not a quick one. There will be movements forward, then backward, then sideways, then all over again.... But with God as our grounding, we will eventually make headway. We need to keep encouraging and supporting each other. To do the right thing. To follow the straight and narrow - God's way.

The pain WILL lessen. I've had a friend (actually a few) tell me that over the past year, and it really is true. FOCUS ON YOU! FOCUS ON YOU AND GOD! YOU AND GOD..YOU AND GOD! Focusing on the WS and O{ only leads to turmoil. Keep on sticking to what you know is right, and remember to enforce your boundaries. NO CONTACT UNLESS RELEVANT TO CHILDREN, FINANCES. I continue to keep you in my prayers. Someday this nightmare we are all living in will seem like a bad dream, a distant, vague, bad dream...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So...Ms. clickety clack has been burning up the phone lines ???Does your relative know how it is hurtful to you? I just want to you know that IT IS OK FOR YOU NOT TO BE BRAVE ALL THE TIME PUTTING ON A GOOD FACE FOR THE IL'S AND RELATIVES. I quit that and saw them for who they really are. All I am saying is that when they say, "we really have some things in common". I would reply that "ALL YOU REALLY HAVE IN COMMON IS MY HUSBAND IN YOUR LIVES. SHE HAS BROKEN UP MY FAMILY ALONG WITH YOUR RELATIVE (WH). DON'T LOOK TO ME OR ASK ME FOR ACCEPTANCE HERE. NOT GOING TO GIVE IT. WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS JUST PLAIN WRONG. IN FACT IN MOST COUNTRIES IT USED TO BE ILLEGAL. BUT I UNDERSTAND IF YOU FEEL YOU HAVE TO RATIONALIZE HIS HORRIBLE BEHAVIOR AND ABANDONMENT OF HIS FAMILY. SHE MUST BE A GREAT WOMAN, THIS MS. CLICKETY CLACK TO ALLOW YOU TO SEE PAST ALL THIS DESTRUCTION AND WANT TO DEVELOP A GREAT NEW FRIENDSHIP. I am sorry Jacky, but I am so sick of these relatives rationalizing and walking INTO THE FOG SO THEY CAN REJOIN THEIR RELATIVE. It sure makes them feel good about theirselves. It has been almost nine months since I spoke to my MIL or FIL. Another nine can pass for all I care. As my dad, God rest his honest and kind soul used to say, "FILTH FLARN FILTH...NOTHING BUT". He got that one from Bill Cosby. Stand strong. They are PUSHING YOUR BOUNDARIES NOW. SEEING JUST WHAT YOU WILL TAKE. HOW LONG YOU CAN SMILE ABOUT IT AND HOW LONG YOU WILL LET THIS GO ON. Best boundary I set was when MIL called me to get her grandson on a weekend that was MINE. I told her that she could in the future ask AUSTIN for the time. That I am a full time mom who has to split time with her ADULTEROUS HUSBAND and doesn't like it one bit. That I did not enjoy my family breaking up and I am not going to make anything easier. That if ehy want to just approach Austin and ask him. Then she said, "I heard you are doing great. You've got a good job and doing really well. So good to hear that you're really happy now." I also responded to her saying that too--"Sure I am happy now. It is a relief not to have to deal with the verbal abuse and the mental abuse daily from your son and the affair. And I do have a great job, but I prefer being a stay at home mom. Although I am intelligent and now state pres. of my med. society, I feel much more needed being the full time caregiver of my son. I am doing good now because I WAS FORCED TO LIVE THIS WAY. I WILL NOT GIVE UP." She ended coversation by saying that "when I had something else to say except about the affair and divorce then we can talk". I said to her, "WHEN YOU CAN SAY SOMETHING HONEST TO ME ABOUT YOUR SON AND THIS SITUATION, WHICH IS SAD, THEN WE CAN TALK. I DON'T REALLY LIKE YOUR RATIONALIZATIONS. I ended with "IT IS PROBABLY BEST UNTIL THAT CHANGE HAPPENS WITH YOU THAT WE NOT SPEAK". Guess she and her adulterous husband, yes, Austin's own father had been cheating on his mother in fact, and until they can wake up and SMELL THAT AWFUL STENCH THAT COMES FROM CREATING YEARS OF ADULTEROUS CRAP, THEN WE WILL HAVE NOTHING TO EVER TALK ABOUT. I am divorcing his whole family. And I wonder where austin learned to cheat???From two enablers..His father and mother. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

A friend of mine has an X who left her and 2 kids ages 4 & 6 for OW. OW moved 3,000 miles away for her job and the XH followed.

Recently he came to visit without OW. My friend had considered 1) letting him take the kids to a motel for a few days, OR 2) leaving the house for a few days so the XH could stay there with the kids.

Then she discussed the matter with a child psychologist. The psy. said NO to #1- said the kids should sleep every night in their own bed for security and continuity since XH had been far from them for almost 3 months. Said the kids need to know they have one stable parent- daddy left, but mommy will never abandon them. The psy. said NO to #2- it would be confusing for the kids and they might have false hopes of daddy moving back in.

Since you are not yet divorced, it is inappropriate to expose the children to H and OW living together at the motel.

My advice- allow H to take them during the day for an activity. They should not go to the motel. If he can't respect those boundaries, he can forfeit visitation. They should return at night. Of course H should pick them up without exposing you to OW, which would upset you and allow your children to see your upset.

I don't know the ages of your children- it might be a little different for older children depending on how they feel about the situation. How old are your kids and how are they reacting to the situation?

Of course things change once you are divorced and XH marries OW.