I have been married for 11 years now. It has not been easy. My husband is a very controlling man. He claims he isn't. I have had family members from boths sides mention his controlling mannerisms to me--they all know what he's like. It comes down to not even being able to order curtains for the house without his "say so" or stamp of approval. He twists things around to fit his needs. In one breath he can say that we "can't afford it" and then in the next "well, we'll look at that" because it's something HE'S interested in.

We've tried counseling for a short time. He got convinced that it's ME that needs to get my head on straight. I was so fed up last summer that I was planning out the divorce, thinking about getting a job, etc. It was extremely emotional and stressful for me. BUT, I've always backed down due to our two children (8 and 7) and frankly being scared to death to go through with it. But on the other hand, I seriously feel for my mental well-being. I honestly believe him sometimes when he says that it's my problem and that he isn't doing anything wrong. I start to feel like an inadequate wife. I'm a very sensitive person and this just cuts me to the core.

He's not afraid to "say it like it is" and can be very rude and brash w/his words. Yet, he never apologizes....I've rarely heard him utter "I'm sorry". There are tons of house projects around here, all undone, half done, sitting for YEARS. It drives me crazy, I bring it up to him and he wigs out and tells me to RELAX and that he'll take care of it. It never gets done. He's in control of what gets done around here. I've thought about going ahead and just getting something done (hiring someone, etc) but am afraid of his reaction--he would be so irate.

I feel like a cornered rat. I have a lot of anger and bitterness towards him, and can't even honestly say if I love him anymore, which is very sad to me. I love the family life and everything about it. That's the only thing keeping me here. I want to be the best wife, but can't put any effort toward it with someone as controlling as he is. I long for a relationship where I'm treated as an ADULT and a PARTNER instead of a little girl and where I don't need "permission" for almost everything.

He somehow has a way of diminishing me down to nothing....I feel like a failure, totally hopeless. I know that I can't go on much longer with things how they are. I wished to God there was some way to make it work, but with his strong personality, he never figures he is in the wrong and doesn't change. I long for FREEDOM to make decisions, etc.

Any suggestions, advice would be greatly appreciated. Wondering if anyone has been in the position where I am. He has never physically abused me (although he mentioned one time how good it would feel to beat me up), but he has the mental control, mind games, etc.

I feel stuck in this position/situation and life seems hopeless right now. I know that there's more to life than this misery and I'm dying to know what it's like to have a normal relationship!!

I've been bashed before on these boards for recommending this book, but it helped me so much. Try reading "The verbally abusive relationship" by Patricia Evans. It's more about Emotional abuse than verbal abuse. It will explain some of the dynamics of your marriage. Some types of Control are abuse. But the book gives suggestions on how to handle certain things he says, and may explain your anger. After I read it, I felt like a victim. Now, I realize I had the power to stop it, but not the self-esteem. I'm now a recovering Co-dependent, and feel much better about myself than I have in years. Good Luck to you. It's not all you.
But remember, you can only change yourself, including your actions and your reactions.
Read up on Plan A on this board, and it might help. I though the HN/HN tapes were helpful too.

GM,
I am so sorry for your pain. Your story is uncanny in that it sounds so much like what my wife stated about my relationship. I can tell you that she felt and probably still feels that I was all the things that you feel about your husband. She said many of the same things about our marriage and it just makes me sad that we ended up at the place we are at now. God how I wish that we would have communicated better, because I never meant for this to happen, and in my mindset at the time, I didn't realize how much difference we had in our view of our situation. God knows that I never realized how she viewed me. She thought that I was controlling because I wanted to be that way. I never thought that I was controlling at all. I felt that I was making the best choices for my family.

Everything that I did was for my family and I thought that she understood that. I never did anything for myself. I drove the crappiest car on wheels while she drove the best 4Runner and Durango that money could buy. I worked 3 jobs so that my family could have more things. I hated those jobs, but gladly did it because I was providing for my family. I was loving my family SO MUCH by working those damn 24 hours shifts on weekends. I HATED THEM, but she never once told me "Why don't you quit?" and actually when I finally did quit, she started in on me about finding other work. She thought that I just had a great time at work. I had one job in which I worked by the hour. She would tell me to "READ SLOW", because I would make more money. Never, hurry be fast so I can spend some time with you. She never gave me the thought that I was working too much or not giving her what she needed in our marriage.

If she had been honest with me and just blatantly said "I am not happy !!!" I would have been thrilled. Not because she was unhappy, because I waanted to make her so happy, I can't even put it into words. God how I loved that woman. God how I loved my family. But she just let things go, resenting me on the inside, and being 'nicey nice' as she put it, on the outside. I just never knew. I just never realized. I felt that we were toughing out my last couple years of education, and that we were on the same wavelength. Come to find out, we were not even on the same planet.

When she asked to go out with her friends, I gladly said yes, absolutely. I knew that she needed more socialization than I did. That wasn't controlling, and that was a place that I should have controlled more because that is one of the places in which she began her affairs. She wanted the new car, I wantd to buy our leased one, she cried and we got the new one. When she wanted to go out to eat, even though we didn't have the money, I said sure. Financially, we were never all that great. And we definitly saw things differently quite often. But I didn't realize that she felt the way that she did. I thought I was being responsible for our future wellbeing. She thought I was once again controlling her. Not "letting' her go get things. I NEVER told her not to go get something, but I would tell her what I thought. I would tell her my opinion, which I truthfully think that she always took as me telling her what to do. I never meant it in that way, but I couldn't just agree when I didn't agree. Curtains were a thing for us once, but we ended up buying curtains, I was learning. I would have learned faster had she really told me how she felt. The damn curtains weren't that important to me, but apparently they were to her and when I said that I didn't think we should get them, she just didn't say anything again, and that was that. I thought she understood what I thought and agreed. She loooked at it as that I had shot down her desires and was controlling the situation. Had she said, "I really want to get some new curtains. I know they are expensive, but I have figured it out and we will be fine this month." I would have loved that. I would have aboslutely loved for her to have had the initiative to figure something out and follow through. That didn't mean however that I didn't care about what she felt nor that I wanted to control her. God I never wanted to control her at all. I wanted a strong woman that could help me understand how she felt and what she wanted. I am sorry, but in order for me to understand things, I need help often times. And especially if I don't agree with what "you" think, then explain it to me so I can understand. I still might not agree, but at least I might see that "you" have reason behind your belief and be able to accept it. NO decision about our lives was worth the heartache of divorce. Was worth the pain that my family, INCLUDING HER, has gone through. Nothing about my life, career, job, home, city, NOTHING is worth loosing my family. Had I understood, I would have done everything much sooner to make changes in both myself and my relationship with her.

I tell you from the man that was accused, sometimes we are just dense. Sometimes we see things differently and it isn't that we don't want what you want, I mean come on, I am sure that your husband wants to be happy, and for you to be happy. God knows that is ALL that I wanted in my life, to live to be very old with millions of great, great, grandkids running all over the house, my wonderful happy wife by my side. Sometimes however, 'you', meaning you and my wife, may see things that are not always the way things are as well. And if you helped us understand, we could have a better chance at helping you understand.

But by the time I understood how she felt, she had already created this other world in which to live and was unwilling to return. Even with 4 months of absolute love from me, with complete understanding and 110% working, she was not willing to work on herself. She had convinced herself that I was this evil man that was just out to get her. She actually had developed this thought about many of the people that she dealt with and I really believe that in her state, she is depressed and even though she thinks she is "felling better than ever before" I think that her mental capacity is greatly diminished. She isn't doing mundain things that she should. She continues to blame everyone else, especially me, for everything in her life. She blames me for her 4 affairs. She blames me for everything, she refuses to see her part, but can only see my reaction to her, which obviously she believes is the ONLY thing wrong, ME. I feel like the kid in school that gets hit by the bully. I hit back, and then I get caught, so I am the one that gets in trouble. Even though I shouldn't have hit back, I wasn't the only one involved and didn't even start the problem in the first place.

I have been going to counselling since January, she went while we were reconciling, but it was the same, MY FAULT, MY FAULT, MY FAULT for everything. She was just a victim of me. Her affairs were just a result of me. Her unhappiness and paranoia was just a result of me. She has not gone to counseling as far as I know in the last 3 months or so. She refuses to try medication, or to even think of it, because the whole problem is ME, and she has treated that with divorce. Funny thing is, now that I am out of the picture, she isn't any happier. But it is still me. Now it is finances, or my new clothes. It makes me so sad, because I really do care about her, but just can't care for her with how she is. If she could ever just forgive herself, she could forgive me. If she could just quit feeling that she has already gone so far and so deep that she can't return, she could be happy and who knows, with some real work and changes on her part, maybe we could return to that wonderful family that we both had always wanted. But I cannot wait any longer. I have been hurt so much, that I am moving on. I wish that she could change and even if she no longer wanted me, she would still be better off than where she is.

I am sorry, I didn't want to take over your post. It is just that your story and mine is so similar, that I almost thought that she was posting about us here. We have been married 11 years and we have two boys, ages 9 and 5. I loved my family and especially her, so much that I would have done absolutely anything to make it a happy existence. My problem is that I didn't realize that the feelings weren't mutual. She just doesn't want to work. Nothing, nada, zilch. Don't wait until you feel the same way. Nip it now, while you still care. Because my wife is walking proof, that if you go too far, you can't come back.

Don't let this go on any longer. Don't leave. Drag his butt to counseling. Tell him "FACE TO FACE" that you are not happy. Maybe you feel that you are telling him, but I will tell you what. My wife felt that she was letting me know, and I had no idea. I had ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA. So sometimes the most obvious thing to one person is completely lost on another. PLEASE oh PLEASE don't let your lives turn out like mine has. I hate this, I hate this. And I really don't think that it had to or even has to be like this, but it is.

Make sure that he understands. REALLY tell him. Don't figure that anyone would see, because I am a smart and good man, and I didn't see how she felt. I don't believe that I was the whole problem, but I was definitely part of the problem. I changed, but she refused to work or change. She just let me try, then when her life still wasn't rosey, she skipped out once more.

It will be tough and you will need to look critically at yourself as well. Oh how I envy your husband. I envy your husband, because I wish so much that my wife had asked these questions a year or two ago and someone had told her what I am telling you now. At least my family would have had a chance at survival.

Maybe he is a really a controlling freak and none of this applies. Maybe you have sat him down countless times and he just laughs it off. But maybe he is like me, and really a good man that cares deeply for his family and you, but has just gotten lost in the sea of your lives. Maybe he just needs a loving wife to pull him back to shore so that he can once again get his footing and be there in every way for you.

God, how I envy your husband.

PS. I absolutely never ever even thought about hitting my wife. It makes me sick to even think that. Oh how li loved that woman. Don't give up, stay in there and fight while you can. believe me, if you cn fight and he is worth fighting for, you will have a much better life than you will without. If he won't change, then you will know, and you will be better off. It is just so sad. I feel for you, because I can understand your position, just from the other side.

Also, "Normal" marriages don't have to deal with Infidelity.

<small>[ October 16, 2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

I read this post today and thought I could have written it myself. My husband I just fought last night about some of these same "control" issues. I too feel like almost every decision I make has to be cleared thru him. I once came home from the hair salon and had gotten about 2 inches cut off (my hair is always long). You'd have thought I'd dyed it blue. Most people couldn't tell much difference, but my husband said he couldn't believe I'd done it without "consulting" him first. I brought home a new key holder about 2 weeks ago. I took down the old one and hung the new one and when he came home, he flipped. He said I'd tried to "sneak" it in while he was gone and it wasn't hanging right and he wasn't going to fix it. I was astonished. I told him (1) "I honestly thought you'd like it, so I didn't feel like I needed to 'sneak' it in, and (2) He's usually home when I get home, so I wouldn't have even been able to. I felt like a child who'd had her balloon popped. I'd honestly felt really good about my purchase and in 5 seconds, he made me feel horrible.
I've lost confidence in my ability to make decisions and now question almost every purchase I make, especially if it's for the house or yard. One of my weaknesses has always been in trusting my own judgement, so it's probably not surprising that we ended up together. We've been together for 5 years this month, but only married since last October. I actually told him I thought he was miserable last night and he said he was and it was why he was having back pain. I said "me too, so why don't we call it quits?". He said "fine", but I know when I get home tonight we'll both act like nothing's wrong just to avoid anymore tension.
I can't imagine spending the rest of my life feeling this crummy, but I don't know how to resolve it either.
I'll be reading the other posts to see what suggestions there are.

I can honestly understand your situation. Very much like mine, except mine became WS, al though I was one who was controlled, felt trapped.

When things had to get done around house that I couldn't do, I would kindly ask him to do them. He would tell me to get out check book and take care of it. I just wanted him so bad to take a geniune interest in his family. But then everything began to unravel. He was gone alot saying he had to go on "business trips". There were many overnight absences, which culminated in my finding out about his A with ms. monkey. that A ended almost three months ago. After the D day, I tried plan A and only got results with plan B. He walked over me again and again when I did plan A. From criticizing my cooking to housekeeping to even the way I would fold clothes, nothing was perfect enough for this guy. Everything I did as a human being was justification enough for his affairs. So I plummetted into a hell of despair trying to "improve myself" all the while. I am attractive. Won several beauty pageants in college. Yet I felt so horribly ugly. Was smart with a good degree, but he made me feel so stupid all the time. Never was I consulted about anything during the last two years together except when I picked out our dream house where the dream fell totally apart. I picked out colors, designed the most gorgeous master suite/bath salon. Can decorate my butt off too. But was I ever praised for anything??? no. If I had a dollar for everytime I was called a dumb #itch, I would be not asking for any support whatsoever. He would not go to any counselling whatsoever. He said the whole problems was BECAUSE HE WAS WITH ME. I WAS THE PROBLEM. I WAS KEEPING HIM FROM BEING HAPPY.

There was truth and that was not it. THE TRUTH WAS, HIS BEING STILL MARRIED KEPT HIM FROM HIS MISTRESS, NOT FROM ME. He has placed so much emphasis on the divorce, attempting to several times "work things out with me to have a good divorce" that it makes me sick. Not once a try to save our family, but many tries to avoid my taking him to court to let the real truth prevail. He has justified everything including saying that "sure we are a family..just different in that mommy and daddy live in two different places now." How's that for ultimate denial of r esponsibility?

Find out about MB principles. The HN/HN book is great. I belive in my heart that there could be real progress here. As long as neither of you have had EA, and even if you have, catch things early enough to do some repairs here. The principles are great. It is good if he has even attempted to go to counseling with you. Maybe a MB weekend conference would be good.

There are some people somewhat willing to change, despite their words as I suspect your husband is. There is real hope for you two. Do not give up without using the principles here and giving it a bit of time. Rome wasn't built in a day. A little time. Try posting on plan A and B. There are good people there. You need to do that instead of coming here. I am not going to tell anyone at all to get a divorce. That is personal. Something one should only pursue if all, and I TRULY MEAN ALL FAILS. The principles here can and do work, as long as one party is willing and even the other party is just one percent willing. Mine was that rare situation where the other party was willing to give only zero percent. Take it and run. You can see great results. Your family life and love CAN BE RESTORED. Go for it.

Formerly Confused,

Thx so much for your story, your input, your words of encouragement. I can honestly say that with the way I'm feeling now, it did put up a little RED FLAG--a life raft--something to consider. I have prayed about this situation until I've been blue in the face. I am so for the family and the togetherness, sharing, etc. Just the thought of breaking up our unit makes me so sad and depressed.

I have told him countless times how I'm feeling. Last summer, he seemed to really understand it and said he would do anything to keep the marriage together. I was skeptical, being put through so much pain. I know I had my guard up and I wasn't going to put it down to let him trample all over me again. I drew all the strength I had left inside of me (and strength I didn't think I had) to actually go in the direction of divorce, finding a lawyer, etc. He actually would cry, plead, etc. A side of him I've never seen. I wish I could say that I was touched by it, but you know what? By then, it seemed too late. It actually irritated and disgusted me, because I thought, okay, NOW you regret all the things you've done, NOW you say how sorry you are, when I've been waiting 10 or more years to have you see it my way finally. I'll admit that I was cold about it. He promised that things would go better, that he was a changed man, that work caused him to be cold and distant and stressed-out, that he wasn't putting family first, etc. I was very careful and scared to death to let my guard down. Around Christmas time, I started to realize my family was worth fighting for, so I gave in somewhat, not totally. We started to drift again this Spring, but again, I let more of my guard down and we were good for awhile. NOW, I see how he has gotten back to his old ways again, how he is not listening as clearly, he says hurtful things, he's stubborn and needs to control my life. It's like we're caught in a non-ending circle of paranoia, distrust, etc. We argue constantly about everything--always a differing opinion. That I can handle, but he makes me feel so bad for having a different opinion--it's his way or no way.

He has been fired *3* times since I've known him (once before getting married and twice after), all of which he claims is not his fault. He balks at authority and criticizes almost everything. If it's not HIS idea, it's not a good idea. I'm tired of his egotistical view, his overly strictness w/the kids, his lack of motivation around the house/yard. I would do anything for someone I really cared about. The sad thing is, I don't think that I could do anything for him. I don't feel like going that extra mile for him. This relationship seems so immature at times that it's almost a crime.

I'm so sorry for all you've been through. I so much appreciate you pouring out your soul and telling me what it's like from the "other side". I respect all you've said. It helps me to get a glimpse of what my husband MIGHT be feeling (although you both sound pretty much different--you said that you would do anything for your wife--I don't believe that that is true in this case).

I'm tired of feeling second-hand, unloved, useless, less than adequate, like a child, etc. There comes a time when you just say enough is enough.

BUT, I will think about what you said. I will lay it on the line with him (probably tonight). I am tired of quaking in my boots, wondering if he will yell about something or "scold" me for doing something/buying something w/o his approval. I'm an adult--I want to exercise my right as one.

Please stick around on these boards.....I might need your help from time to time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thanks again for sharing.

Sasbffy,

Unreal. You just described what it's like living with my husband to a T. I actually got my haircut a few years ago....same thing happened...I had longer hair, decided to go short, he came home and completely and totally freaked out, said it looked ugly, couldn't believe I went and did that without his permission or consulting him first, said he couldn't even "look" at me, etc.

I, too, had been feeling confident in decision making. Well, when you're in a relationship like this, it puts the kabosh on any sort of confidence in yourself. Everything has to go through "him". I cannot believe how similar our situations are. I have gotten scolded for going to a garage sale and buying my son some pants/shirts for less than $1.00. "We have to save our pennies" he said. So it would be more sensible to go buy them full price????? Unreal.

Thx for sharing. At least I know that I'm not the crazy one who is being extra picky in a relationship. I am sorry that you are experiencing this, too.....it is so frustrating, incapacitating, etc. I look around this house and see all the things I want to get done. But it never does, since he will not lift a finger to do it. If I "nag" him, then he digs his heels in even further and threatens that it will never get done. It's all in HIS timing.

Thx again for sharing--

Gm25,
I wish I could be happy that I'm not alone, but it actually makes me angry to know that others have the same situation. Interestingly, in my head and heart, I know that my husband thinks I'm intelligent and I don't think his controlling behavior has much to do with me, but everything to do with him. He had a difficult childhood (who didn't?), and perhaps some of that is the cause. Doesn't really matter much at this point. He admits to some of his relationship problems, sometimes, but that doesn't seem to resolve anything.

When I told him he seems really unhappy (trying to get him to talk), he tells me I'm the reason (or my wanting to talk is). That really hurts me, although I don't believe it's the complete truth. He hates his job, doesn't have any close friends, and is very critical of almost everyone. The really shocking thing I've noticed with him is that if he feels that he's been slighted by someone (even in a minor way), he will have little or nothing to do with them. He thinks I am far too accepting and forgiving of people.

Lately I find myself staring in the mirror and asking "you knew all this, why did you marry him?". Makes me question my own actions and motives.

GM25,

I can totally relate to your story. I did everything that my stbx told me to do and then I got hollered at for doing it wrong. For example, the other day I got scolded (yes, like a child) for not putting a glass correctly into the dishwasher. It took me endless counseling sessions to learn that he was verbally abusing me and I just sat back and let it happen. The funny thing is that he is a Counselor himself. I have only been married for five years and have a 14 month old baby. He was the one that asked for the divorce because "I am unhappy with our marriage". He feels that I am not the person he married and that I changed. Of course I changed, I basically grew up, I had to because I became a mother. He basically stayed the same. At first I cried a lot about the divorce but now I am realizing that maybe this is the best thing for me and I can be with someone who appreciates me for who I am and not try to change me or treat me like a doormat.

I read "THE VERBALLY ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP" and it opened up my eyes. Do yourself a favor and buy this book. Also, visit the site of the author www.verbalabuse.com. From what I am reading, and I am not a Counselor mind you, but it sounds like you are living with a Verbal Abuser. My stbx cannot admit that he is controlling but I see it every day. He orders me around like I'm a slave. This morning he asked me to buy him some index cards because I had to take the baby to the Doctor because he had a bad cold which turned into a sinus infection, and the drug store was right next door. I told him to get it himself. He got mad but didn't bring it up again.

They get madder the more you stand up to them but it sure feels good.

Good Luck to you!