Okay, well, let's think about this... If we ignore feelings, then what do we do with the scriptures where feelings were felt and displayed? Jesus was angry, he wept, he was overwhelmed, etc...<P>If we ignore feelings, then are we not lying to ourselves in the process of denying them? And what does the bible say about lying?<P>It is the truth that sets us free, being honest about who we are and where we have been and the hope we have in the one who redeemed us by his blood. Was his anguish and sweat in the garden because he ignored feelings? Was not he admitting how he felt and desiring to do the Lord's will? How are you becoming the best you can be as a woman of God if you ignore that part of you??? And sister, I am talking to myself as I am talking to you... <P>We are to teach our children all day long... what are you teaching your children by alowing abuse to occur? Are you showing them an abiding faith, serenity in your trust that God is in control? Does not he Holy Spirit guide us? Did not Jesus disapear out of crowds when he was in danger? How are you being faithful to your marriage vows to honor and respect your husband by allowing the abuse to continue? That isn't honoring your husband? How can you pursue peace in that environment? <P>There are a lot of scriptures that appear to be conflicting to you right now. The purpose of separation is for a season, a time to reflect and pray, to allow the Spirit to comfort you and to teach you. Karenna wrote to Lonesome Heart in a thread on the emotional needs thread. Those are some of the things you reflect on in relation to becoming the woman God would have you become. Separating is providing the space to clarify, to protect and to seek His face and hopefully for God to touch your husband in a mighty way.<P>If indeed he does hate women, then God has a lot of work to do, but as long as you remain mealy and wishy washy, he does not have to deal wth his stuff because you are the target that allows hm to continue in his dysfunction. Does that further the cause of Christ? <P>It is make it or break it time for both of us. I am more concerned about you because you still have children in the home and your lack of assertiveness reflects badly on them for their future. You will be teaching your daughters that abuse is okay and in general expected and you are teaching your sons that women are not worthy of respect. I speak from experience from watching my own children as aduts and the relationshps that they find themselves in. I failed them and I must confess this daily and battle the evil one in his accusations.<P>Karenna and [censored]: I realize that you want to help but telling Renae that she is stupid just adds to the messages she has already heard, so you just confirm to her what she already has been told. [censored], you admitted that you had a controlling personality that you have battled and your posts come across a controlling here, angry that she is not doing what you WANT her to do. This decision is hers alone. We are to encourage her, to help her work through her confusion with the truth in love. Codependency with a low self-esteem is heart wrenching.<P>After reading the book Renae, I am even more saddened because I do not believe that my husband will not have the guts to work through his issues, but I have to trust the one who is trust worthy in all things that he will work it all out to the good for His glory. Ther was a purpose for all this. I do need to do my part and so do you Renae.<P>I am praying for you.<P>

SueB, your posts always are so right on for me!! I thank you for taking the time to write so carefully and insightfully!!! I don't know why the Harley's don't believe in "codependency". If you have to live with it, you know it exists. <P>Yes, SueB, I guess it is hard to separate from H, because even as the book says, these kind of men don't often change but rather file for divorce. If I thought separation would wake him up and things would have potential for improvement and getting a real marriage, fine, let's separate. But as I leave H, I am convinced he will think even more that I am the whole problem!!! He will likely become more self-righteous and stuck in his way!! He will find another woman.<BR>This is not what I want nor what is best for him. But I can't fix him either!! I guess what I'm saying is, if I separate, this is likely the END for us. I have to accept that very real possiblity.<P>I know all that you're saying is correct, SueB...this is really living a lie to sit here trying to go on with life as usual. I am not even helping with the work enough, as H just complained I'm not "holding my weight" around here with the work load. He can't imagine the level of pain I've been in where some days, try as I might, I get little done. <P>Another struggle is that H accuses me of being a perfectionist. I know my dad was one and so was I. But all the stuff I've been through has relaxed that very much to where I'm not sure I am one....or am I still? Am I expecting more than H or any husband could give or be? Or is this just another ploy of H to blame our sick marriage on ME??<BR>Do I want a Perfect Husband so can't accept H? Here I want acceptance but can't accept him with faults and all? No, this is more than faults....this is absolute positively abuse and neglect!!!!!!!!!<P>H has started telling me that I have a mental disorder!! Last night, he asked me if I thought he needed a new car since he bought me one. I gave him a reasonable answer, I thought, that it depended on what he plans to do with it. If he wants to keep it as his good car, fine, but he should keep the old one then to haul "junk" around in rather than dirty-up the new one. But guess what... he posed this question to me not to ask my opinion on the car, as I soon realized after my answer...but was ready to launch another attack against me no matter how I answered!!!....He started telling me I can't possibly assess our relationship because I'm out of touch with reality and how he really is!! He said he heard a figure skater say on TV how wonderful that he and his partner just know about each other without talking, and H said that's how I should be with him...where he doesn't have to talk and I read his mind!!! I explained that yesterday how mad he was when his brother expected H to read his mind and got mad at H?...I said, relationships need communication more often than reading minds!!! For H to expect me to always be able to read H's mind and when I can't to cut me down is unfair!!!! Oh, I get so tired of his ways!!<P>Yes, SueB, I even tell myself at times, that the kids are fine as long as there isn't much physical abuse, that they don't notice much of the other stuff. But I know better.<BR>My parents' non-physical stuff affected me!!!! Oh, how our minds play games to avoid the real confrontation, taking the stand that really needs to be made at this point! But I do know what I have to do now--LEAVE! I<BR>have tried everything else. <P>Thank you all for your posts....you have helped me so much is sorting all these confusing thoughts and emotions and religious stuff too! <P>

We do want the best for our husbands, but we also need to want the best for ourselves, we need to deem ourselves worthy as daughters of the king to receive the best too. I think we have allowed Satan to twist the truth in regards to dying to self and we have dropped the ball on integrity. Somehow we have convinced ourselves that respect and honor are "selfish" things and that is the lie we need to throw out. <P>Is it possible to take the children and live in the other house for awhile? Or would he cause to big a stink? You don't do it out of anger Renae, you do it out of love. You are saving the love you have for him before it is all gone. You are taking a breather to pray and be refreshed. You are taking ths time to reflect and to study who you are and who God calls you to be. My email is down in the Boundaries thread if you want additional support. Get a yahoo or mail.com or hotmail account and take the kids to the library and use their puters to keep in touch with us if you can't take the puter with you.<P>You can do all things through Christ who strengthens you!

SueB:<P>I don't appreciate you accusing me of calling Renae "stupid" (I'll let Karenna defend herself).<P>I have NEVER called her stupid and I resent your remarks. If you can post my using that word to her where I called her stupid, I will repent in sack cloth & ashes.<P>As far as anymore comments/advice to Renae, after reading her last post....I can see I am wasting my time......<P>By the way, I wasn't trying to 'control' Renae, I was just sharing my heart as a man.<P>I think you need to get the log out of your eye before you try and take the splinter out of mine.<P>[censored] from Texas

My dear precious friends, please don't misunderstand each other...you all make perfect sense to me, and that's what God wanted!!...I value you all in your own ways....there is a reason [censored] is here, and Karena, and SueB and others....<P>[censored], don't give up on me....I know I seem to roll back and forth, over and over but it takes that to be really really really...SURE!!! before I leave. <BR>H keeps throwing new stuff at me too, you know, sending me back for more thought, and it gets confusing at times. I have to weigh out what everybody says, grow from where I am inside, heal from H each day, and yet think of how to get out while my responsibilities to my kids, etc continue. I don't think anybody should just dump a marriage without rehashing things fifty dozen times at least. In my mind, though, I'm set to leave after Christmas. <P>SueB, yes, I feel going to the other house is the best move at this time. That's what I plan to do. It will be good to be there, away from H!! Honestly, though, I don't think I have much love left to save...it has gone on too long and he has love-busted so badly since counseling that I'm thoroughly fed up now!!! Only part hanging on is some agape on the spiritual end, but no husband-wife kind of bond there that I'm aware of inside of me. <P>I have a hotmail address. Yes, that's a good point...to use the library. <P>I'm counting down the days. It will be after Dec. 27th when we meet with H's relatives.<BR>Then I can go. I keep telling myself, I will have a life again!!...I need peace so badly!!!<P>Big hugs to you all!!!!!!!!!

Dear Renae,<P>We all do have many problems and trials to face so I can understand how you are feeling sooooooo scared and tired. I understand how sometimes it just seems too much to bear and seems to go on for so long that you wonder if you will ever get a break! But I don't think we get very long breaks! <P><BR>I can see that you do also realize what blessings that you do have and that is good.<BR>Can I suggest that you kneel down and ask Heavenly Father directly what He would have you learn from this experience and this trial that you are enduring right now? Ask sincerely and take the time to listen for the answer.<P>Perhaps you have already done this but if not I know it can be a great comfort to actually know what it is we are expected to learn from the experiences that we have and gives you something to strive and aim for. <P><BR>This Sunday while just casually sitting in Sunday School I suddenly learned that I have been withholding faith in one particular area, and God can't bless me there until I step forward into the unknown and trust Him openly. Until I knuckle down and literally DO what I know God expects me to do the Holy Ghost is powerless to lead me further. <P><BR>I pray that your heart will be filled with peace and comfort as you come to choosing the decisions your Father in heaven would have you make. I also pray that your H will find the Spirit of God, and soon. <P>Please Renae, feed your spirit. Just take one day at a time and try to take even just a half hour or so every day to sit and meditate for yourself. I know that God will reveal His will to you as you open yourself to receiving it. <P>Love, your sister in Christ,<P>Karenna<BR><P>------------------<BR>A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us.

Thank you, Karenna! I just did that last night....couldn't sleep for an hour due to a toothache, so asked God what this is all about with H and where it's all leading to. I felt prompted to put on my radio earphones then & June Hunt was sharing with a caller a passage of scripture that I made up a melody to when I was in high school--you know the one that goes--be not dismayed for I am thy God, I will strengthen thee, yea I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness!! Imagine the Lord reminding me of that at this moment?! How appropriate!! I took the earphones off for a while, then came back to it, her final words were to another caller who was dealing with a blamer!!!...She said you deserve to be treated with respect. Little did she know, she mouthed the Lord's words for me. I am getting what the Lord wants for me to think on, a chunk here and a chunk there....But I so need every bite!!<P> <p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited December 19, 2000).]

I sent this to Counselor on Sunday & waiting for her reply:<P>"My brother plans to drive my parents here for Christmas Day. This is very special because they don't drive in the City so rarely ever come. I did all Mom's shopping for our girls, as she doesn't know what to get for them. <BR> <BR>Anyway, plans are set, and H had agreed to it. Now he is threatening that when they come he's going to tell them what a terrible person I am and use them to try to control me. (He has in the recent past threatened to bring me out to them for such a talk so this is not a new idea. But I told him I was not going out there for that. But now that they are coming here, how can I handle H?) <BR> <BR>He has also complained numerous times recently of how they were in our dating years and that they wrecked our romance; before the wedding he said he was ok, but now he says he has hurt all these years and blames them. I think if he was ok with it enough to marry, then he should stick to that and not bring that up to blame and shame them now!!! If he brings this up to them, it will be World War 3 in our home on Christmas Day!!! I'm really afraid about this, because I can just imagine him being so tactless!! I believe he shouldn't be blaming them now but take responsibility for his own decision to marry me and he should have been nurturing a romance and relationship!! <BR> <BR>I don't know what to do with his threats, which he is very likely to carry out!!!!! And when he decides to talk, I can't stop him. <BR> <BR>Saturday night he was terribly verbally abusive to his dad and I. I could just feel that he was filled to over-flowing with pressure inside him. He was explosive. I asked him to talk respectful. His dad got very irritated at him and told him to shut up and told him the truth of the situation we were doing that night. <BR> <BR>This morning he is verbally abusive to me again. I am home with sick children and making a meal for H & his dad for after church. <BR> <BR>H's relatives will have Christmas celebration on the 27th. After that, I'd like to move to our old house. I just can't put up with anymore of H constantly cutting me down and threatening nearly every day. I will finish out my bookwork and tax work responsibilities, etc. I know you don't like the idea of separation, and it has been a last resort for me in my own mind, but I think it is time for it. <BR> <BR>Sorry to bother you via e-mail. This just seems urgent."<P><BR>Not a word from Counselor yet. Friends, H has to make life hard for me right down to the last minute!!! If our old house were in shape, I'd have Christmas over there, but that isn't possible. <P><BR>

Perhaps all of us, including [censored], need to remember that the main theme of the Bible is love.<P>Renae - it does not seem to me that you are living in a marriage where you are the recipient of any love. You are living in an abusive servile relationship. And you and your children deserve so much more. I would hesitate to call your husband a living example of God's love.<P>Furthermore, I have seen [censored] throw his weight around on more than one occaision and feel, dear man, that you might need a little self-evaluation. Explain, if you can, the kindness and compassion in your last post. Sounded more than a little "high and mighty" to me.<P>I know I might sound judgemental with this post. Flame me if you wish. <P>Renae, may you be blessed with peace and strength as you contemplate this big event. Personally, I think it is the only thing you can do if you wish to set a good example for your children. They can't see this continue. I grew up in an emotionally abusive home with a dictatorial father. And guess what my husband turned out to be. Emotionally abusive and dictatorial.<BR> <BR>d<BR>

Renae, you know what he is going to do on Christmas! He is what he is. He is very consistent. Expect it. <P>You know he isn't going to show any kindness, generousity or forgiveness to you! That is not what he is all about. He IS going to be the abusive, spiritually maimed creature he has shown you that he is throughout the years, months, weeks and days leading up to this.<P>Hoping and praying about it isn't going to make him change. You can't change him. Even God can't or won't change anyone who doesn't want Him to change them! Therefore, you know that your H will not be changed by God before Christmas this year.<P>The ONLY thing you have power over is your own actions. Set up the list of IF-THENs now. When he does X you will do Y. When he does Z, you will do W.<P>I am sad and sick that you feel the "other house" is your only option. You must be extremely isolated. Did you ever look up some of the support resources I mentioned earlier? Can't you reach out more? <P>The "counselor" you rely on solely may be more committed to her own ideology than to you , or even what God's will for you is. Last I heard (from you) she had not been ordained or annointed to receive God's revelation on your behalf!<P>Keep the faith, Renae. You need to be very strong and centered because Christmas is going to explode in your face, but that is how you have set it up this year. I'll pray for you. You are going to learn a lot in the next two weeks! <P>blessings,<P>Karenna<P><P>------------------<BR>A true friend is one who not only is willing to love us the way we are, but is able to leave us better than he found us.

Here is Counselor's reply:<P>"You cannot control H or his behavior. Many times people threaten to do things just to upset you and push your buttons. If he does say things to your parents, remember that if you react in an angry manner, yelling,<BR>etc., it will give more weight to what he is saying. However, if you remain calm and simply state the facts - not feelings - your parents will witness his frustration but see that you have kept your cool. They will<BR>be more likely to think H is the one out of control. Also, your girls will know the truth too. Maybe your parents need to witness what is going on and then it won't be such a surprise if you find yourself unsafe<BR>and apart from H. <P>Keep safe. Keep doing what is right. Keep praying for God to give you guidance.<P>Merry Christmas, I will pray for you."<P>********<BR>Do you see the part how I'm supposed to state facts not feelings? GRRRRRRRRRRRRR<BR>I've heard enough of this theology from H to keep me in an emotional dungeon guarding my feelings forever!!! How much more self-controlled does she think I can be? When can I just yell and scream my lungs out in protest of all these years of this abuse?!!!!! (Oh that felt good to say here as a vent!!!!...not that I'd actually do it, though!!!)<P>And how about if I should "find myself apart<BR>from H".....seems to me it won't happen unless I take the action!!! GRRRRRR<P>Well, I know this denomination of H's all too well now. They cannot help H or me, but at least they aren't endorsing H's behavior and can pray.

Thank you for writing to me, Bleubelle, and thanks again Karenna. Yeah, survival through the next two weeks is key.......I will, though, as I know God is with me. He has been speaking and He has it all taken care of ahead of time....I just need to walk in his footprints....He's already walked it...<P>Yes, I've been very isolated for a long time but have been getting away more whether he's liked it or not.....because I have had to "to feel some independence, to try out my wings" in preparation for the actual big "leave". God will be with me and I will make it... <P> <BR>

Renae, Counselor is exactly right on this one! By not "reacting", it makes your husband look like an a$$, that he is over-reacting once again, that family must excuse his tirades. Even smiling and shaking your head as you pray for the Spirit to help you to remain calm, as you claim the serenity offered by putting your anxiety on the cross, will get the message across. And I am telling you that feelings are important but that we do not have to put them out where unsafe people can step on them.<P>It is as simple as after H divulges some perceived dark sin of yours to your parents, that you look at them and say, "and if you buy that one, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell to you", laugh and go in the kitchen and do something while praying. <P>Hang in there!

Renae:<P>I am so sorry that this thread which concerns you and your happiness has turned into a<BR>'bash [censored]' thread.<P>God knows my heart in all of the responses and wisdom I have shared with you and obviously it has been 'misjudged'.<P>To Whom It May Concern (and you know who you are):<P>If you have anymore bashing or negative comments to or about me, please leave them off this thread and start a new one. However, I will no longer respond to those kind of comments.<P>Renae:<P>I love you, in Jesus, as a brother in Christ and I hurt for you. I have never seen or heard of ANYONE going the limits you have to make your marriage work.<P>I think it is time for you to follow your heart in whatever decision you make.<P>Remember, another aspect of Grace is that Grace is 'God's enabling power, or power that enables us to go through situations that in the natural we just can't endure.<P>I pray much of this Grace upon you.<P>[censored] from Texas

Renae,<P>I have been reading this post since the beginning. It really sparked my interest, because I have a friend and a sister in a very similar circumstance. In addition, my husband was raised by a father who is just like your husband. My father in law passed away almost 20 years ago, but my mother in law and all her children are still haunted by those years. She doubts her own christianity because of the abusive controlling and demeaning way her husband spoke to her. He pushed his own strict religious views onto her and belittled her, using the religion as a reason. Now, 5 of her 6 children have serious relationship problems, most include abuse and constant disrespect. My husband's sister has been married twice, abused both times by their meanness. That sister's children are already growing into their parents' roles- her daughter (only 8) believes that boys are more in charge and important than her. Her son (only 5) thinks its just fine to belittle his sister and talk nasty to other children. This is the legacy of raising your children in a household such as this.<P>Now, onto what I was hoping to say in the words of advice (sorry for all this long-windedness).....<P>First, in regards to emailing your counselor: It appears that you are looking for approval and permission to do what you know is right. Say to yourself "I am a grown woman, a mother, an intelligent human being. I can make decisions about my life all on my own. I don't need anyone else's approval or permission to act in the best interest of me or my children." Stop looking to counselors, parents, pastors, or anyone else to give you a go ahead with your life. You are a grown up, and you don't need permission from anyone!! <P>Second,<BR>When your husband embarrasses you in front of family at Christmastime, you can act timid, shocked, confused, or humiliated- sure. But these are the reactions of a stepped-on woman. Pretend you're not for a moment and SHOCK HIM! Stand up and tell him that it is a real shame that he doesn't even know what a complete [censored] he is. Walk out of the room, and let him wallow in it, and then pack your stuff and get you and your kids out of that house before he can be alone with you and hurt you. <P>Renae, all of the people I know who are in these circumstances allow it. And they allow it because their own parents taught them that it is okay. You know that you are doing this to your children right now. I was raised with much more self respect and confidence than that, so it is hard for me to understand why anyone would let someone talk to them that way even one time. When I tell my abused friends how to stand up for themselves, they say "Oh, I could never do that or say that!". My answer to that is, "that is exactly why you are being abused. abusers KNOW that you won't stand up to them, that is why they chose you." My abused friend's and sister's husbands DO NOT LIKE ME. They think I am a bad influence. They put me down. Why do you think that is? Because those men know that I think they are scared little men who need to belittle others to make themselves feel better. They know I laugh at their sickening personalities and loathe being near them. They know that I am not afraid of them, even a little. And they don't want my strength to rub off on their wives, so they try to keep me away. They are cowards.<P>You need to stand up for yourself, you are a strong woman who knows what is right. Don't watch your family go through cycle after cycle of abuse and pain, as my husband's family is experiencing. It will haunt you forever. Doing what is necessary right now is hard, it will be painful- it will hurt unless you stop listening to all these ridiculous people who are trying to justify your husband's behavior and stifle your feelings! Do not look to others for approval any longer. Make the right decision for your children- without regard to how your pastor or his pastor or your counselor or your mother will react.

Renae:<P>It's been a long while since I've posted to you. I think that your counselor's advice to be "non-combative" is good---it takes a weapon away from your husband. You don't want to react to his abuse.<P>I do think you need to prepare to leave this situation, but I would advise you not to do it in the manner that tamis suggests. To aggrevate an abuser by humiliation will not be to your advantage. It puts you in a more dangerous situation. You should simply get the kids together and leave, and let your husband know that you and he will have no more contact (a "Plan B" separation) until he has demonstrated (through counseling and action) that he has changed his abusive behavior, and is willing to try to be a better husband. There's probably not much likelyhood of that happening, but the separation might knock some sense into him.<P>I'll pray for you in this very difficult situation. God bless.

Oh you all are talking so well to me today, (I've been sinking). You expressed exactly what I most needed to keep me going forward!!! Thank you K, Tama, & [censored]!!!!... <P>Tama, you say "It appears that you are looking for approval and permission to do what you know is right. Say to yourself "I am a grown woman, a mother, an intelligent human being." You are so right on this!! I have become like a child, helpless, approval needing, help me with decisions mindset! Inside I know, I really know my situation is bad and I need to get out. I just stared at the dentist this morning when he gave me a decision to make! Did I want the tooth pulled or a root canal? Finally, he said 98% of folks do the root canal, so I went with that (because everybody else does?), but I felt so self-less on such a simple decision! Is it any wonder that "getting out" of this house is so hard? That's what this "marriage" has done to me and I have allowed to happen to me.<P>[censored], thank you!!!....to have a brother in Christ say "I love you" is so healing that I've got tears running down my face!! Just this past week I've been sinking in the lack of love here, the isolation, the emptiness, etc....and it had hit an all-time high. So God let the dental office people treat me so kindly today, then my daughter was unbelievably affectionate in words and hugs today also, and now your post!! Just the reminder of the word "grace" is healing, when experiencing constant harshness here.<P>Thank you so much for the love, insights & encouragement!!! You have been HIS instruments to my soul today!! Blessings to you!!!!

One more thing to add. The counselor was correct in emphasizing the importance of stating facts in response to an emotional tirade. But YOU need to understand that FEELINGS are facts too. Treat the emotion you feel as a piece of information. <P>Communicate about it, not through it. Do not ignore your feeling, or deny it. Rather describe it. Expound upon it's meaning, use and source. <P>What you do want to avoid is sinking into pure emotion, letting the emotional brain stem run the whole show. Keep the rational brain in charge where you can make conscious decisions. <P>God gave us this most precious gift to actually USE. Agency. Choice. Decisions. Abdicating your volition to another despises this gift and blessing. <P>I have faith that you will eventually find your courage. You can handle this without all our advice too! As Sue said, you are a grown woman. I'm not worried for you any more. You will take on the life you want. No one is stuffing it down your throat.<P>Blessings,<P>Karenna

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>But YOU need to understand that FEELINGS are facts too. Treat the emotion you feel as a piece of information.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Excellent point Karenna! One that I needed to hear as well. Was thinking about self-worth this morning. The purpose of step four is to do a searching and fearless moral inventory<BR>of ourselves. The inventory is desribed as a "fact-finding and fact-facing process" in that we are said to be seeking the truth about ourselves and to honestly be taking stock of our lives and in that process search "out the flaws in our makeup which caused our failure." For we do have flaws to allow abuse to continue, to find orselves in similar circumstances over and over again. <P>From an AA perspective, it is stated that self, selfishness and self-centeredness lay at the base of our troubles. which manifested itself in three categories, resentment, fear and relationships. I think I will find this interesting in that I have felt that I have attempted to combat the statement that I was selfish by giving and giving to prove I wasn't selfish. In some ways, it was a self preservation thing but I also now see that I didn't truly believe what God said about who I am in Christ. Instead of absorbing grace for what it is, I frequently found myelf in the works mode trying to do my best to present myself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. Wow! Heart breaking to realize that. <P>So that goes back to the worth thing. It is really easy to automatically say, "Yes, I am worth better treatment, darn it!" but to then question yourself further repeatedly, "are you worth it, are you really worth it?" digs down to the heart of things that many of us do not believe that we are worth it. To fully understand the gift of grace is overwhelming.<P>To go back to your original statement that feelings are facts about me and not to be discounted but addressed as a matter of fact as information rather to be acted upon (screaming, yelling, etc.) was a jewel for me. It is one more piece of self-acceptance with all my flaws. Thanks.<BR>

Renae:<P>Unfortunately, many Christians struggle with accepting the unconditional love of the Father. I am speaking as one of those who used to struggle with this.<P>Because of my dysfunctional past (much like your husband's); I was so beat down, defeated, rejected, insecure, wounded, devastated, etc/etc/etc.....I hated myself.<P>My self-hatred had totally destroyed my self-worth, self-esteem. Then, I discovered that we needed to have 'self-love'. Not,<BR>'self-ish' love, but self-love...there is a difference.<P>"You shall love the Lord God with all your heart, soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself"<P>Look at the last part of that verse: "your neighbor as yourself". What I believe the Holy Spirit was trying to convey in this is, "we will love others in direct proportion as to how we love ourselves".<P>In other words, I will love my neighbor (husband, wife, family, friends etc) in the same way I love myself.<P>But, if I don't love myself, how can I love others? This truth has set me free. <P>Actually there are 4 different levels of love: First, that we know and accept the unconditional love of God, then we can begin to love ourselves.<P>As we learn to accept His love, learn to begin to love ourself, then we can begin to return some of this love back to Him. Then, finally, we can love our fellow man.<P>Renae: I hope I don't come across as conceited, but I can now say I love myself, in fact, I like myself...I love and like WHO I am.<P>However, I don't always love or like WHAT I do. We have to learn to separate our WHO from our DO. This is why God's Unconditional Love is NEVER based on WHAT we do, but rather WHO we are.<P>I sense you are like a green plant, withering in the heat without water...you are withering due to a lack of love.<P>I pray you will see how loved and special you are, both to the Father and to others...you can not continue to allow the negative battering of another wounded spirit; determine and shape the way you view yourself.<P>As I was praying this morning, for a select group of family/friends that I pray over, I added your name to this list.<P>Because I was in a co-dependent relationship for so long, I can recognize the symptoms.<BR>I was co-dependent upon my wife and she was the enabler.<P>Your husband is co-dependent on you and you have enabled him....but, as you have begun to stand up and take charge....he has sensed this and he is tightening his grip of control out of fear of losing you (or rather his control of you)<P>This is a sick way to live and this is why I have said sooooooo many times that in separating (not divorcing) but separating from him for a season....it would be more for his sake.<P>Let me share this vision I had, just after my wife left me in Feb of 1996. I saw this human heart, it was beating and the large vein was flopping back & forth as blood gushed out of it.<P>It looked as though the heart had been torn away. Then I saw the heart become reconnected.<P>It was a Word Picture the Lord gave me and this is what He showed me. I was connected to my wife as my source. When she left me, I almost died because I was so co-dependent upon her.<P>Then the Lord showed me He re-connected me to Himself and showed me He, not my wife, was my source.<P>Hope this is of some help.<P>Your friend and brother....[censored] from Texas<P>