I just got this email from stbx:

....I have a lot to think about and I'll keep in touch. I don't know quite how to say this without sounding like a bleeding heart, but I have acknowledged in myself that what I have done to you was not a true and honest reflection of what I wanted for us in the long term. I remember the effort we both put in to reestablishing our relationship, and quite frankly I let myself fall out of the loop with disastrous results. Whilst it seemed the right thing to do at the time, since then I have not been congruent to myself, and now I find that I cannot keep my feelings of regret and loss at bay.

I'm not asking you for a second chance but I often think that I would be a honest, balanced and happier person if I was with my family. I am so sorry to have put you through all this.

I am quite literally in shock.

Nina
Wow, isn't this what every BS dreams of happening?? Does it send your "hope meter" up to a new level? It can give others (like me) hope too!

You might want to be cautious in the way you respond. He says "I'm not asking for a second chance" so the way you offer that (if you do) will set the tone for everything to come.

I think it's great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hello again, NinaToo! Wow! That's all I could say after reading your latest Post. Perhaps the Fog is lifting and blowing away in the winds of harsh cold reality (for your WS and his OW)... Maybe he hasn't been so 'brainwashed' that he can find his way back home... to you and your children.
We're keeping praying for you and keep your spirits high.
God bless you, Jackie.
Harold

OMG Nina,
I would think "finally", what are your thoughts?
Why did he write to you? I didn't realize you are in contact. I understood he communicated with kids.
Maybe he wouldn't come with OW on Christmas.
Do YOU want a chance to reconcile??
You have to be prepared that he can change his mind again (you mentioned that he broke with OW but for short).
I know I would be happy if my ex would want come back, even with his new baby- am not sure that you think the same .
Do you plan to answer him?

Love
D

Nina,

I am an old timer here, and mostly lurk now, to see how the few I still know, are doing..

My ex made a come back, after 3 yrs too.. 3 whole yrs.. because his OW never left her husband, and he waited and waited, and finally got very frustrated.. but (in my case) I held my wall up, to protect my self, just in case, which turned out I was right.. unfortunately.. but that does not mean it can`t work.. because he was just not ready, and I saw right through it all at the time.. and to this day, 4 yrs now, I wonder what goes through his mind, now and then, and I know he is still not with any one particular person, so you just never know, although I do not dwell on this thought any more, but I do still wonder, reguardless..

I was kind of sorry and regret though that I did not let him back in, emotionally, or trust the situation, as it went at the time.. but I also now feel, after being protective of my self and our daughter, being he was not ready, it was best for us all, that it did not happen.. if he were to come back it has to be in the right frame of mind.. and he needs to learn and KNOW for sure this is what he really wants..

any way, the thing is.. IMHO, that you have to be both caucious, and available (but not too available at first).. and I beleive it can be done, if this is what you want.. a really good plan A, which is always a great help in the long run.... but done ever so delicately.. slowly, and as smoothly as possible, and with ever attempt, ALWAYS attempt to bring out something good between the two of you, something possitive.. and walk away with your head held high and proud of your self for (always) being the better person.. do allow some breathing room, and do not take advantage or anything for granted in your situation.. just be really carful, and stay calm at all times.. and allow your ex to see the lite again, with no strings, and he may come around to his own conclusion, with out much work on your part, all by him self..

I do wish you so much luck.. I would love to see more posts like this one, and feel that the world is working on becoming a better place to live, with no more drama in our lives.. just good old fashion every day peace and harmony.. wouldn`t that be a miracle..

good luck Nina..
AV

I imagine that, in some way, this is something you might have dreamed of him saying.

But, the part of me which sits at my desk and takes statements from people who are lying through their teeth, is skeptical of his motives.

Is this about his heart of this wallet?

Sorry to say it but I wonder.

Hi Nina,

Haven't been here much at all. But wanted to say that I share your sentiments, it is a shocking email to read.

But please remember the MB rule of thumb. When his actions match his words is when you can perhaps start believing in what he "says" he feels or wants.

He sounds lost to me in his email, and when someone is lost, they don't necessarily know PRECISLEY what to do or what they want. It's something he has to figure out on his own, IMHO.

Until then, please protect yourself from any more emotional grief, honey.

Love,
Jo

One additional thought, I don't think I would respond to his email. And if you do, I'd only say "I understand" ... and leave it at that.

He KNOWS how you feel, Nina. You don't have to reinforce your stance regarding not wanting a divorce.

Many prayers for you,
Jo

Nina too:

What has happened recently with the kids?? or with you that has him reflecting?? Or between him and OW. Do you know??

Did she leave him again? Did his family say they don't want her to come for Christmas? Did the kids tell him they don't want to see him at Christmas??

What exactly is he acknowledging within himself? He really isn't specific..

What does he regret? He doesn't say that either..

Does he regret he left you for someone else?

Does he regret he hurt you deeply? And are his regrets turning to actions??

And what has happened to make him regret these things??? I have to agree with Cinder..I think he
realizes how it's going to hurt his Wallet..

I also agree, I don't think you should even reply..not even acknowledging what he's said, unless it were to ask him if he could be more specific about what he's refering too..

Nina too,

All I could say when i read that was WOW. It so good to have others respond who have been thru it. I don't have anything to add that hasn't been said, but I'm glad you posted so we could all benefit.

D.

Sorry for the length of this post.

Thank you so much everyone for replying. I am still in a state of disbelief, with so many scenarios playing through my mind as to what brought his email about. Clearly, since the language in it is very formal, it was not composed in five minutes.

Let me explain the events of the last week. On Friday 18th, he told the children he was bringing OW home for Christmas. It has totally devastated my nine year old son. He has told his father so. TWICE. So stbx wrote me an email, not a bad one, but one line in it said that son has no option but to go with him at Christmas. So I had to write back.

I sent the following to him last night at 8pm, and I got his reply FIVE minutes later. My comments are in bold, quotes from website in itallics and his letter, to which I replied to is normal text:

Although your relationship is old news for you, remember that it is brand new for the kids, and they are having a very hard time dealing with it. I have had S and G coming to my bed during the nights, S continues to sleepwalk, So cries out for me every night in her sleep; they are angry, sad and afraid and both S and G are not wanting to go with you at Christmas unless you are alone. I have read and read on the internet today trying to get good advice on how to handle this, and the thing I come up with is that parents need to introduce the children to the new partner in small doses and over a period of time. The idea for you to take them away for that amount of time is not recommended, especially since we are still married, and especially since it is the first time they will be meeting her in the full knowledge of the situation. Two pieces of information follow.


"- Consider how your children will react as they try to deal with two very emotional areas: the divorce and your new relationship. When parents begin to date, children may feel that parents are betraying their former spouse, or they may feel insecure about their own place in their parent’s affections, according to Mary W. Temke, Ph.D., a human development specialist at the University of New Hampshire’s Cooperative Extension, Durham, N.H.

"Some children may feel their security is threatened when their parents begin to date," Temke said. "They wonder if they’ll still be loved and wanted if their parents find new companions."

Temke suggests that parents prepare children before introducing any new dates by explaining that while you still love them unconditionally, you are going to spending some time with new friends. In addition, parents may want to think carefully before displaying physical affection with a date.

" Children may feel uncomfortable with physical displays of affection," Temke said. "Older school age children may feel jealous, confused, angry, or frustrated if they must deal with their parent’s sexuality as well as their own."

Finally, remember that if you begin a new relationship that doesn’t last, children may experience hurt just like you do.

"When a dating relationship ends, children may feel the loss as well," Temke said. "Also, children tend to believe that things happen because of what they do. Therefore, they may feel responsible for the end of your relationship, even when they are not."

and

"According to Dr. Lois Nightingale, a Clinical Psychologist and Marriage, Family and Child Counselor, children invest as much in the relationship as their parent, that in itself can be a problem if the relationship doesn't work.

"It's important to introduce children slowly to a new partner," advises
Dr. Nightingale. "First as a fun 'friend' who spends time doing children-focused activities, and then only sporadically - say twice a month for the first few months."

Therefore I think we need to renegotiate things.

So now my comments on your letter:

Jack,

Obviously poor S is upset by what is coming up. I will have to deal with my little boy's state of mind when I get there, but I think it would be good for his sake if you could reassure him of the love that both you and I have for him, how much he means to both of us and that ultimately he is a very much loved and wanted young boy.

Agreed.

I don't know if he goes through the day thinking these sad thoughts...if he does then he definitely needs reassuring, and I will continue to give him that from my end...I will be trying to allay any bad thoughts that he tells me about when I call.

The most important thing he wants to hear from you is that you will put him first, and be alone when you come. Didn't {OW} offer to stay behind if it was going to cause problems?

Hopefully you can do that too, and we can get his emotions under some sort of control.

I deal with the kids' emotions about this whole thing every single day. I do my best to let him know he can love you and me, and that we both love him. I cannot reassure him about his pain caused by the choices you have made in your life which I don't agree with. I DO NOT put you down, I just cannot lie to him and tell him I think it is okay. I don't. I don't offer my opinion on this to him either.

He has not got the option of staying home when I come out to Australia; I will be telling him that he is going to have a great holiday, and plenty of time to catch up with each other.

I have to disagree with this. He has genuine issues over this holiday. As you know, he is a very bright nine and a half year old boy who I believe can decide whether a situation is going to bring him too much trauma. He can clearly state why he does not want to go, and it is not hysterical kid stuff. I will not force him to go, and I make no apologies for that. As he has told you himself, he is more than happy to see you on your own.

I know this is hard for all of us, but can we try and keep the kids minds as clear and positive about things as we can?

Again, I do this every day.

Regards,

Please can you leave this word out of your emails.

Jacky

So, as I said, he sent the email in my first post of this thread five minutes later.

So I guess that is the backfround on this whole thing. I should have set the scene better last night, but I was actually in shock. I will sign off this post now because it is getting lengthy, but I will answer all comments so far below.

Love and light,

Jacky

I don't know jacky. I am happy that he has seen some of the fog lifting. Good, very good. But is the fog leaving???I don't know.

This is tough. Believe his actions and time will tell. Reinforce postiively these new actions on his part. You have done that so well. You have been tough but loving. Good part too.

I think he is seeing now the destruction he has caused your family now. And maybe is thinking that OW , aka ms. clickety clack, isn't all that anymore. Maybe she snores, or has gas. Who knows...But by now she is NO LONGER THE FANTASY WOMAN OF HIS DREAMS BECAUSE SHE IS SEEN AS A HUMAN WITH HUMAN FAULTS. Don't let this be a holiday reunion for him. He may be leaving OW at home while coming to visit and playing happy family. I just don't know. Not sure.

Will be and keep on praying for you guys. You are so sweet and kind and I pray somehow a miracle, yes a straight up miracle for this family.

WILL EVERYONE JOIN TOGETHER TONIGHT AND PRAY FOR JACKY AND HER FAMILY ESPECIALLY WH?

This is a huge breakthrough. But a huge way away from recovery just yet. Do not build up hopes as they are dashed away. mine were built up when WH came home for three days during Christmas holidays. Read my post today...Wierd stuff.

YOu are definitely in my prayers Jacky....kind of a scary email. Hard to trust anything anymore, isn't it. How sad is that? Take care Pat

Damn,

and i had given up on him. . . .

rats. . . . .

i told you in the beginning that he would be back. . . .

i think the proper response might be:

First Name:

regardless that our marriage is now gone, (if indeed it is, and i suspect so) your children need their father on a regular basis in order that they develop somewhat normally. If you are really serious about that last email, then you need to move back home, find living arrangements such that you can be a father to them on a regular basis. this request is not for me, for i don't want to have anything to do with you, but for the emotional development of your kids.

They are still young and have a small chance of recovering, but they will forever have the dark side of life imprinted in their subconscious, and will have a tendency to follow your legacy, thereby inflicting more pain in future, well meaning relationships. . . .

you have one chance, and it is slowly slipping away.

nina

now this is not for you, and you need to clearly state it. . . however, for your children, i believe that you need to tell him once what you think will help your kids in their long term development. . . . .

believe me, this response is the highest of all roads, and is one you can take and the kids will be forever grateful, but they will not appreciate it until lots older, if it does come about. . .

good luck,
you deserve a little break here

wiftty

Here I am as promised, replying to the kind people who wrote to me in my time of need, YET again. I appreciate all comments and value any insights you have, each and every of you.

avondale25, yes it is every BS's dream, to hear those words. It was my dream for a longgggggggg time. But I gave up wishing. And that is why I do not know how to feel about it.

DJ, Thanks....yes, wow is the reaction from most people. I do think he may have realised the pain he has caused, but I don't think he wants ME....he never said that.

B&D, Thanks for dropping in! I haven't seen you here for a while...hope things are getting better. Change his mind...yes, I know he can. I am not looking at reconciliation right now anyway.

numbheart, thank you for posting to me....so nice of you to come out of hiding just to do that. Your advice is excellent and if I decide I do want to try again, I will remember your post.

Cinderella, yes, your thoughts about money occurred to me too. I just do not know the person he is now, so I can't guess. But I am also suspicious of his motives.

RESILIENT!!! So GOOD to see you! And sound advice as usual. IF I decide to do anything, I will be baby stepping all the way, and he will have a lot of proving to do. Thanks.

Thorned Rose, I kind of answered you in a post above, but I think his change of heart was to do with my son, who told him exactly what he thought about Christmas and girlfriends before divorce on two occassions, that may have prompted something.

Willgetthruthis, thanks for replying with your support, nice to know I have friends.

notpeachy, you crack me up! GAS!!!!!!!! LMAO!!! But seriously, thank you so much for the call for prayers, I know I need divine guidance in this, that is for sure. Caution is my catchword right now. I do not know enough yet, so I am just gonna bide my time.

mnm, Thank you so much for the prayers. Yes it is sad that I cannot take him at face value anymore, but he did cause it, and so I guess he has to understand that.

Wiftty, Thanks for calling in again, and for advice on the letter. And you may have been right all along, but time will tell. As for what I want...well...someone asked me tonight how I would feel if he came crawling back on hands and knees, repented and treated me like a queen, what would I do....I said, "I don't know"

And I don't. I really, truly don't. I know I do not want the pain of my marriage all over, I do NOT want to be a doormat again, I do NOT want to be made to feel stupid, I do NOT want the lack of respect. And I know what I do want. And it is a tough order. One I do not think he can fill right now.

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

This has gotten me so depressed and worked up and ambivalent. One one hand, I am elated that it seems Ms Clickety Clack has clacked her last click <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , on the other, it feels like second best.

I do not want to write to him right now. I don't know what to say anyway, except "I don't understand....please elaborate." And even that is too much for me right now.

The email every BS wants, without doubt. And yet, when I get it, it tosses me for a loop. I don't get it, I just cannot get my mind around it.

Well, thanks for listening, and replying to my post.

Love and light,

Jacky

Jacky,

Yes, you answered my question in the first response, as to what 2x4 hit him up long side the head..

But it still doesn't sound as if he truly understands the damage he is doing..if he responded to your e-mail that quickly about what the counselors and professionals have said, I don't think it wouldn't have time to fully set in..

IMHO, I'd suggest you do write him and ask him to elaborate to what he meant..as that would maybe force him to really look within himself..and not
just look at the surface needs..but his real internal needs..

I know your not holding your breath as to a complete turn around from him, where he gets on his hands and knees and begs forgiveness..and for you to take him back, as I know that he would have to make some drastic changes within himself before you could do that..and would have to prove himself by his actions over a long period of time..in order to rebuild that trust..

but it does sound like your kids expressing their feelings openly and honestly with him is helping him come up out of the fog even if a little bit..
and I think it's great that you encourage your children to be honest with him about how they feel
because we never know how God can use that to change his heart..

I guess that is why God says to confront those who sin against you..and if they refuse to listen to you..to take two or three with you to confront them..and if they still refuse to listen to go to the elders of the church and let them confront them..and if they still refuse to listen to break fellowship with them..until they seek forgiveness,
even then you still don't have to reconcile the marriage, but you can at least have an amicable relationship..

Oh Jacky,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to properly respond to you in your time of need. My computer was damaged in an electrical storm 2 weeks ago and I'm not supposed to use internet at work for personal reasons. I made a couple of quick posts but after reading yours I wanted to make sure I had time to respond in lenghth.

Now I'm visiting my mom and unfortunately I still find myself without adequate words. Yes that's the e-mail every BS wants but also like you I lived in fear of it for many months. I wish I had great words of encouragement but honestly I never came to grips with what I would have done had my Ex been truely remorseful. My heart does go out to you and I hope you know that you and your children remain in my thoughts and prayers.

I am so sorry for your turmoil. Isn't is just alwful how they still have control over our emotional well-being.

Do what's best for the children and pray lots. You are a strong woman and I beleive in you.

God Bless,

Lynn

Thorned Rose,

Thanks for your wise words. Regarding the bible...I think that part of what has happened is that the affair is in the light of day, and they have had to face to disapproval of his family (they wanted to stay with his parents when they were here but his mother would not allow it) and so they hit the real world. I think, from what his mother and sisters have told me, that they have NOT been supportive of him and his OW, and it has made a difference in some way. If enough people tell you that you are sinning, sooner or later you have to listen.

Lynn,

Thanks for your words. I have awakened the past two mornings thinking that the email was a dream. Then I realise it wasn't, and I am again plunged into confusion and pain. Not to mention anger. I am starting to think "What, he says SORRY, and expects me to just take him back?"

Yet I know that it is a glimmer of the WS poking his head out of the fog, and I should feel grateful...

Lynn, I have lost your email addy. Can you send it to me again?

Thanks for the support, friends. I am still feeling sick about this, but it is so comforting to know that there are people out there who REALLY know how I feel.

Love and light,

Jacky

Jacky,

If anyone deserves happiness, it's you. In one of your earlier posts you were asking how to word something to your stbx so as not to be hurtful, confrontational, or LB'ng in nature. This shows true class.

If somehow your H is coming out of the fog, and somehow wants you back, this is what will make the difference. Take it from a guy's point of view- A man will ALWAYS choose CLASS over A$$. Any day.

My opinion on the formal wording of the letter is that he does not want to insult you by being emotional or familiar, or expect that you are ready to "jump into his arms". He has responded so as to make you aware that he views things seriously. To me, at least, this means that he is experiencing true regret.

The way you have been behaving up to now, is PERFECT. You have a right to wait for actions that match words. This will earn his respect, and contrast sharply with "clickety-clack". Don't immediately engage in an "open-door" policy with him, but keep him at a respectful distance, and let him "earn" every concession from you.

If he is to come back AT ALL, it will be under the circumstances that will afford him minimal damage to his pride. Don't expect him to beg on "hands & knees", like someone has said. Don't listen to that cr@p. There are other & better ways to show remorse, beg forgiveness, and make up for loss, and inflicted hurt. Keep the balance & class you have shown up to now.

Even MORE love & light to you
muzohead

Hi Jacky
It has been along time since I have posted, When I read this I had to say something. All I can say is WOW what a turn of events for you, I have had know contact with EX for over a year and she did marry OM. I have hoped prayed and dreamed of the day I could hear such words. I would not want her back now. But an apoligy or just an acknowledgement on her part would help bring things to a close for me. Take care of yourself, you have come along way in the past 16 months