Its amazing how I have hope for my marriage when in reality its more like denial. Last post I spoke of wife moving divorce dismissal date from 10-24-02 to 11-26-02.
Her explaination was the paperwork we have to fill out and our disagreeing on settlement. But also she said her heart and feelings. Will Get Thru This said it may also be cold feet.
Yes I get hopeful one day and diappointed the next time we talk. I know there are many days like this for a lot of us on this sight.
Well yesterday I met with her to clear a few things up from my foggy brain. I just wanted to know if I was hearing her right. She said I have to understand ther is too much time and damage to ever restore this marriage. She will always love me blah blah blah..... what brings the sadness to me is her saying things like this. What brings the anger (I keep it under wraps} Is how she keeps telling me Our friend that she is living with has nothing to do with her wanting to divorce me. The fog must be a very blinding place. I know there is nothing more I can do. Plan A'd, B'd and now I have to let go. I let her know I can't imagine having her think we can be there for each other as friends after the D.
I know I kid myself to thinking I want this over with but I know I will never move on if she hangs on. I also am not like some of those here who still would have hope after the D. I would do everything possible to avoid her but I also know this will be impossible until I move(not for at least 5 years)Out of state. A dream I will accomplish. Thanks all for listening and your replies are always welcome.

Nitehawk,

Only you can decide it you want to move on or let her know that you love her, that you don't want this Dv, that there is nothing that God can't forgive and therefore me too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Its amazing how I have hope for my marriage when in reality its more like denial </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all do it. It's too painful at times to admit that it is over (at least for now) I've lived there a long time and have to work hard at facing the reality of the situation. Thank God for these boards, my friends in Alanon and AA. This is what keeps my going along with my faith that led me to these places for help.

((((((((((((((nitehawk)))))))))))))))))

God will lead you in the right direction if He is sought. It's not easy, but no matter what you will be a better person for the stand that you took.God will use that for His purposes.

God bless,

D.

WGTT,
I have told her I love her and dont want a divorce. Then she will come back and say "You said you agree, We should get this over with."
This isnt an excuse but I'm not the best at remembering every detail of a conversation especially when the conversation can be confusing and frustrating.
She knows about fog from reading she has done. She seems to be happy when we talk about the divorce.Says she is just trying to make me understand why it wont work. Seems happy with her do as she pleases life and OM {he tells her to do whatever makes her happy}.
I told her she will see one day that he is not a knight in shining armor like he appears now but a wolf in sheep's disguise who fooled around on his STBX other times.
She claims people say follow your heart. She says she cant. She is following her brain.
I try to let her know I would do anything towork hard for this marriage. She basically says dont waste your time and drop any hopes you are having. I wish I could. Even when this does end something tells me I will still be in denial.

Nitehawk,

You can express that you don't want a Dv and that you love your wife with respect and dignity. Avoid groveling (not saying that you do)

She said I have to understand ther is too much time and damage to ever restore this marriage. She will always love me blah blah blah.....

Her guilt is speaking when she says to you all the reasons why it won't work. She is trying to justify it in her mind. They practically ALL say that, she's not unique.

Is how she keeps telling me Our friend that she is living with has nothing to do with her wanting to divorce me. The fog must be a very blinding place.

Yah right. How could it not have anything to do with her wanting to Dv you? The fog is very thick.

I try to let her know I would do anything towork hard for this marriage. She basically says dont waste your time and drop any hopes you are having. I wish I could. Even when this does end something tells me I will still be in denial.

You could simply say that you don't agree but obviously she wants to go so she is free to go that's her choice. That the M will only work if there is an exclusive relationship in the M.

You can work on denial. Sometimes there is a fine line between hope and denial. She may go ahead with the Dv, may end up unhappy, may be sorry for what happened if when the fog ever ends. But that doesn't change the foggy outlook right now.

have told her I love her and dont want a divorce. Then she will come back and say "You said you agree, We should get this over with."

Soemtimes we react to things when emotions are running high that we may not mean that way. Or there may be times that WS twist what we say to fit thier fog.

It is one of the most painful things to go thru, even worse than death. Trust in God, be good to yourself.

D.

I am sorry to hear about your situation. You and I are in similar boats regarding how our Ws are reacting. My W is still in TX, I am in the midwest and so is the OM.

She wants to return but wants to make sure we are not married when she does. She wants to expedite the divorce, in fact she insisted yesterday that I file for divorce.

Nothing can convince her that our M can be worked on. When I tell her I want to understand the real reason why she won't work on the M she only answers because I don't want to, I am not interested. I tell her I don't think that reason goes to the bottom of things and she just insists that's why.

She wants her independence and freedom she says, it is not about the OM. She insults me, degrades me and tells me it is not healthy for me to have hope for the M.

Anyway, what do we do? We are at a crossroads in our lives and we have to make the right decision. As someone told me somebody has to be the adult in this situation and I am committed to doing what it takes for my M and if I end up without her I will feel better because I will know I gave it my best try.

Keep your hopes up and pray.

Will Get thru This,
I really appreciate what you have to say. Respect and dignity are hard to come by when affairs are going on. Sometimes she hangs up on me even though I'm not saying anything cruel or angrily. She might just ask me how my daughter is (Who Im having a major schooling problem with now)and I feel its nothing for her to be concerned with.
I have days where I feel like she is just acting concerned because of the FOG. I know she was more of a MOM to her then her real mother is.
As far as my words fitting into her fog you are absolutely right. She definately adds twists.
She is helping here and there with my daughter. Which I am guilty of using WS for financial reasons. She will get my daughter to appointments that I would have to leave work early for.
WS does'nt mind cause she has a day of during the week and she offers. Yes I do thank her everytime.
We spoke today about an appointment coming up that she will schedule. During this I once again let her know I truly love her and do'nt think I will ever understand this STBD. She stated she would write something to me to give me a better understanding.

Utterly Confused,
We do sound very similar. I am also a midwesterner.I am 39 and my WW is 30.You wrote saying your wife does'nt want to reconcile and she is not interested.My WW says I will only love her if she came back otherwise I could care less about her. There are days where I really can't stand to here how happy her voice is when we are discussing our divorce proceedings. I just let her know that I dont look forward to going over our final agreement because I still love her. I guess its my FOG. I honestly don't blame her for wanting out of this marriage where I provided hell instead of ENs. But I have to say I blame her for the affair and my so called friend. I hope he has a large EN Bank account. If you sence anger in any of my posts its because that part of why this is ending hurts the most.
Im usually not a delightful person when Im being injured.
You know there is one thing that I keep hearing or reading during this: Do'nt let thoughts of them anger you, for if you do they will still have control over your life, This is so true. Its just fighting the thoughts that is hard while she is still in my life and I love her.
I"ll keep looking for God's path and praying for all of us going thru this.
Yesterday is History
Tommorow is Mystery

Hi Nitehawk,

I can tell you are having a very hard time right now.

I understand a little bit of how your wife might feel. I know that there were times that I felt about my husband the way she says she does about you. The difference being that I never left, or had an affair. I considered it. No one specific in mind but I do remember thinking that if I did that maybe it would set him free from me. Maybe he wouldn&#8217;t want me any more. Considered suicide. Considered a lot of things, but endured. But yes, there was a lot of damage, irreparable damage.

When I read what you have written, I wonder what kind of irreparable damage your wife is speaking of, the anger, or the things done in anger. (Not that I need to know this &#8211; it&#8217;s just what passed through my mind).

You say that you have told her you love her and don&#8217;t want a divorce.

She responds with "You said you agree, we should get this over with."

I agree with &#8216;WillGetThruThis&#8217; Tell her &#8230; &#8216;I love you. I don&#8217;t want this divorce but I understand why you might. I am agreeing to this divorce because it is what you want, although it is not what I want. I love you, and would like to spend the rest of my life with you. I am sad this is not the way things will be.&#8217;

Very simple expression, and from the sound of it, that&#8217;s the way you feel.

Another question that went through my mind was. Why do you love her? It must be more than because she is your wife. Why do you love her? (Again &#8211; just my personal question &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t need an answer.)

You say she seems to be happy when we talk about the divorce. I could understand this. There were times I would give myself a few moments peace when I would dream about being free. Of course, this was before things started to improve between my husband and me. Sometimes he made me feel like I just couldn&#8217;t breathe. I was at times; totally convinced that he couldn&#8217;t possibly love me.

I think she believes that what she is doing is the loving thing. I know you&#8217;ll want to thump me a bit for saying that, but that&#8217;s what I see. And it may be what is going on for her, if you wish to try and understand what is going on for her.

You might be in a place where all you can do is let her move forward in whatever way she sees fit.

In the meantime - making a suggestion. Try to focus on yourself a bit. What led to this place and what it might be good to work on changing? You&#8217;ll need to consider these things if you hope to win her back, and you&#8217;ll definitely need to consider them if you want the situation not to repeat in the future.

Best,
Jamie

P.S.

Please don't be upset by anything I've offered. It's not intended that way. Just available if you need me.

Yes - your insights on my thread have BOTH been very helpful.

Jaimie, Not upset at all by your replies. Thank you for taking the time. You sound so much like my wife and your name is very close.
I dont have much time tonight. But the main thing i wanted to say was I wish I could Take away the pain I gave to those in my life as well as yours. but First I have to continue to start loving me inside. I continue to pray for God to take away my Character defects away.

Nitehawk,

First I have to continue to start loving me inside

An exercise that I was given to do was to write out 10 things each day that I was greatful for in me or about me. I realized that I did that for a few days but stopped. Thank you for the reminder!

I continue to pray for God to take away my Character defects away.

It was suggested to me to list my character defects on one side of a page, then on the other side, list my character assets. My defects ran into the other side . I just redid that same exercise (after 10 years)& it was just the opposite.

Which I am guilty of using WS for financial reasons.

Me too. In my case, I've hung on to something that hasn't been there cuz of fear of finances.

I have days where I feel like she is just acting concerned because of the FOG.

Mine fades in and out, at times sounds concerned and asks about the kids and other times I don't hear from him at all.

God Bless,

D.

Thinking about you - hoping you are okay today.

I&#8217;m pretty busy, but I&#8217;ll try to stay with your posts.

It is good that you want to take away the pain you feel that you gave to those in your life.

Don&#8217;t worry about my pain though. I&#8217;m getting stronger every day. I&#8217;m just fine.

You will start loving you.

Don&#8217;t overwhelm yourself with changes. Maybe start with one thing, something small and manageable that you would like to change.

There are so many things I need to work on that sometimes I don&#8217;t know where to start. So I know a bit about this one thing at a time approach.

Maybe think of one positive change you could reach for that might help your mental attitude and energy level right now and for the long term. What positive quality could you integrate of add to your character that would make all the difference in your energy level and mental attitude?

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Jamie MacInnis ]</small>

Jaimie,
You wondered what damage that made her know this was done. The anger and my actions that came from it.
The fear I gave her to never to trust the evilness
that I gave her with my alcoholism and that she believes will never change. she has gone to ALAnon meetings and they let her know it may take 4 tries if HE makes it at all.

You asked.... Why do I love her????
She was more than my wife. I never got a chance to let her know how much of a friend she was to me. But then again I took my friends for granted to like I did with my wife.... taking care of business... while I drank life away

She gave me her life....Made love to me like no other, went on trips to Amish villages, antique stores, walks in orchards of apples.... and never said she had to have a diamond.

I would'nt celebrate Hallmark holidays.... but I loved being the out of the blue for no reason....and not looking for anything in return...a husband that would bring her a rose and how much she meant to me in my words on a card..

Theres a lot more Jaimie but it would be a book.

You, believe it or not, got what I wished for, for my wife. My death....Instead she took all of her strength (what she had left) to have the courage to say what she did and go unharmed.

This all hurts but I believe its because I still want her but also she gave me a chance in life with my daughter and to feel sobriety.... and to feel love without her.

Jaimie...I dont know your age, where you are, or how long you were married..

I just hope that you dont find a person like he was to you and I was to my STBX.

I go to meetings where you hug total strangers at the end ( men and women) and it is something I wish I could have done for my wife.

Anyway stranger....Here is a hug from me.... They feel great.
Take care and keep on keepin on

Nitehawk - You didn't respond to a very important question - Can you think of one positive change you could reach for that might help your mental attitude and energy level right now and for the long term. What positive quality could you integrate of add to your character that would make all the difference in your energy level and mental attitude?

WGTT,
Definately defects runneth over. Try everyday to see the assets and how great they are on a persons life and those around them. Been using people I work with to go through "How would I want to be treated if I was them right now". This helps me to remember how I would lash out and make things worse.

Jaimie,
What am I doing for the long term? Knowing where I could be right now if I continue on that depressed path. Meds are needed for my depression while being sober and the groups I can go to.
If I think things are looking rosy again and I stop with what is taking me to a better life....
Thats when my long term will be shortened and He may forget what principles made him happy.

I have'nt been a saint and try my best to practice these principles. I have to keep remebering my past to realize I do not want it to be a future.

Thats my best answer for now. I have a hell of a lot to learn and a long way to go.

I have a hell of a lot to learn and a long way to go.
That's the best place to be - humility. It eh journey that makes life exciting, just think how great you will feel as you trudge the road of happy destiny. It's the 11th step that keeps life exciting. Spiritual growth is the answer to all my problems today.

I have'nt been a saint and try my best to practice these principles. I have to keep remebering my past to realize I do not want it to be a future.

Who has been a saint. There will come a day that your past will help someone else & it will feel great. Kind of makes life worthwhile. God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

As they say, Keep comming back.

God Bless,

D.

Nitehawk &#8211; So my question is &#8230;

In yourself, what one positive change, or positive quality, would help your mental attitude and energy level right now?

So I&#8217;m trying to hear the response to that.

&#8220;I stay sober and on my medication so that I can refocus my life.&#8221;
&#8220;I remember staying sober and looking after myself is a lifelong commitment to my own mental and emotional health.&#8221;
&#8220;I am committed to building a positive future that I will visualize as I become healthy again.&#8221;

Is that what you are saying, or have I read too much between the lines?

My question again is&#8230;

In yourself, what positive change, or positive quality, would help your mental attitude and energy level right now?

I&#8217;m only after one change or quality &#8211; but more will be fine too &#8211; and it&#8217;s better for you if you state it in the positive and affirmative &#8211; as if it&#8217;s something you have all ready achieved.

Give it a go &#8211; just one response if it&#8217;s all you can manage.

Jaimie,
I thought about what you said and if there was one positive change for now and the future.

I dont know what you were looking for but this is what I have....Composure.

Today I sat alone with STBX in our house (Still is)and when we set this up she asked "Are you going to behave?"

We had to finalize the final agreement paperwork. There was a small problem of my understanding a section on the form. I told her that. You know what I received when I said I did'nt understand?
Screaming about how much of a dumb--- I am and thats one thing she never liked about me.

I remained calm and asked her if I am the only one she talks to that way? Her response...Yes.

I asked her to please calm down so we could get this done. She did and we actually went through the rest of it very smooth.

By the way I let her know again that I love her, and I know this is what she wants but I do not and I am doing this for her.
She gave me a nice hug and a kiss goodbye. She went to the backyard to say by to the dogs. I was wathching from the backdoor and waved goodbye.

She was crying and quickly waved back. She is going to rewrite my sloppy dumb--- Agreement (coffee stains) and were meeting real quick on Monday so I can sign it. She is being very fair to me.

A few hours later I was outside and there was a message on the machine. She still sounded teary. She said I want to thank you for not getting upset with me earlier and I just got a little too emotional and I sorry I had to leave. There was a pause....and then "you have a goodnight".

She has a 3 page letter started detailing why we will never work out she is giving it to me on Monday I fill the board in.

Take care and many prayers....

Dear Nitehawk,

I am very proud for you and how you handled yourself with that challenging situation. I hope you can feel good about how you handled yourself too. Be proud of yourself.

&#8220;Composure&#8221; if the perfect answer, because it is YOUR answer.

Hold on to that.

&#8220;I have composure.&#8221;

Excellent!

I&#8217;ll write again later.

Best,
Jamie