Well I couldn't understand why WS had begun to start asking things like "Is it REALLY over?" to me the other day but now I know why.

She has received the Divorce Petition from the Court for her to acknowledge and sign to say that she agrees to the divorce. Makes sense now.

Feel pretty indifferent about it now actually. She did say how she was upset, angry etc etc and didn't know what to do. Of course she's sleeping with OM2 and living with him so there's absolutely no value in her words just her actions. And to cap it all today is my first birthday without her for 15 years!

Regards Neil.

Oh Neil - as ever no words of any advice really, but a very big HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU from rainy North London. It seems to be what most people say that birthdays, Christmas are so very hard, especially when you spend such a long time with one person.

Take care.

Lisa

Sorry this is happening to you too...my lawyer received papers on my behalf last week, and my stbx sent me a remorseful email just before I knew about them, probably the day he was informed the papers were sent.

So in a sense I know how you feel...why ask those questions NOW? For me, it was why the remorse NOW? In my case he is living with OW, and yet says he would be a better man back with us, but he is still letting this happen.

They are so fogged it is worse than London.

Hugs, love and light,

Jacky

Thanks all. I got a long SMS about how she is still really ill and in therapy and needing help. I fully understand and acknowledge that.

The problem for me is that I spent the year supporting her post-OM1, thru the cutting, drinking and suicides, and yet she still went to OM2 bcos I wasn't "what she needed". She's clearly on some sort of autopilot. I care that she is ok and getting better but I do not know HOW we would recover from this, and thats not in some "aren't I hurt" big headed arrogant fashion, but in a genuine I really do not now HOW we might move to a recovery.

I find the attraction of a new relationship far to attractive than trying to even attempt this one. It's all a moot point really as she still lives with OM2 so there is no action on her part to recovery anyway so I am moving on.

For Xmas I am surrounding myself with family to try and get thru that one Lisa...

Neil.

I think you've answered it yourself - you see no way to recover given everything you did to try and support here after OM1, and frankly, with no move away from OM2 given all of that, where on earth would you start?

Whilst it must be sad to hear her say these things, as I've said to you before, you know you have done everything possible to try and save your M. You also know in your heart that there is no way back, and you've accepted that and are trying to live your life. There will be days when everything seems fine and you can cope, and there will be those awful days when you think you've made such a mess of it all and where did it go wrong. This is pretty natural.

Lead the best life you can for you and your girls now Neil.

Have you got anything nice planned for your b'day - weather's pretty rum out there today. BTW Jacky, it may be raining alot at the moment, but fog in London is a thing of the past <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care Neil

Lisa

O know Lisa, I know. When your "Relate" counsellor says "Good Grief I have no idea how you fix this" you know you're in trouble <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I am moving forward, she now wants to know what the rush is for signing the papers - jeez. It's fairly simple. I want to be getting on with my own life after losing 10 months of it in hell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Neil.

No movement on the signing of the papers or the acknowledgement of them. If she doesn't acknowledge them I have to get another copy hand delivered via the bailiffs. That's not going to be pleasant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Petition has not been acknowledged so next week the Bailiffs will have to deliver it to her by hand at her home or at her work. Talk about hard decisions to take. But if she can't act sensibly what else can I do.

Have switched from my guarded Plan B to a proper Plan B now and am moving on with my life and the little ones.

Neil.

Take care of yourself and your family. You can only control how you act and how you let others make you feel.

I am currently in a full blown forgivness mode. I am trying so hard, not for her, but for me and my boys. I need to forgive, even if she wants none of it, nor cares enough to even acknowledge it.

All I can say is that what little I have done so far has really made a difference. I have 'caught' myself starting down a familiar path of asking why or becoming angry and stopped myself and repeatedly reminded myself of how lonely she must be or how horrible her life must be or have been to have gone to these lengths. I have really started to realize just what a horror our wayward spouses must be living.

Not that it excuses them, they did and are doing this to themselves and their families. They refuse to allow us to love them, because they can see nothing worth loving in themselves. But if you look at it not from a hurt spouse's view, but as a caring person, you can see that they are truly lost souls and I feel for them. I really do. They strike out at us out of guilt. They blame us out of their own self hatred. We are the symbol of their choices, even if they don't see it themselves. Keep your head up and your path straight. Resist the temptation to retaliate or exact revenge.

You will thank yourself later for taking the road that will keep the anger and guilt from your doorstep as the years pass. I hope to be there when she needs me. I know she will in some way, and I hope that I am strong enough to be there for her. I will be there if she calls, for me myself, because that is who I am, who I strive to be, and who I believe myself to be. Not to be something for others, but to be a good person for myself and a good rolemodel for my boys.

<small>[ November 15, 2002, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Hi Neil

Just wondered how things were, and whether the DV petition has been delivered.

I know it's a horrible time, but keep the mantra going and stay strong.

Hope you had a good weekend - mine was frayed (seems par for the course). Am starting a new thread over on GQII - would appreciate any advice.

Lisa

Hi Lisa et al.,

Weekend was tough. Had male friends over on Friday night and my Brother. My kids were already home with my Brother, my W had dropped them off because daughter had hurt her leg. Sadly there was more to it than that. Turns out that youngest had been shouted at by OM2 and she was very distraught when I came in. I gather that she had not been this way with W. My daughters had said that OM2 had shouted at her whilst W was in the chemist.

Anyway W called and wanted to explain. I had already talked to the kids and settled them down. They were OK so I really did not want to talk to her, I had managed to be happy ish all week since the funeral. She started on about how I had to watch what I said about OM2 and that basically I was saying things that I should not to the children. As you can guess it went right down hill there and then with all the talk about how I threw her out (she has forgotten what she said before I asked her to go), accusations that I hurt her in the bedroom (which the girls were also in and know to be untrue whilst she was on phone to OM2 who was readily waiting to pick her up), that she doesn't want to take the girls away from me (veiled threats that I hate) etc etc. I lost it to, and said about the fact that she hadn't tried to come home or do one thing to recover. Its so messed up its unreal.

She views her calls "I cant cope" as a cry to want to come home, I view them as her trying to get more money. Maybe I was wrong to interpret them that way. She views my inability to talk to her in her OM2 house as a way of pushing her away, I find it far to painful to even go there, she views my talk of OM2 taking her on as me pushing her away and not having anything to do with her, I view it as he told me he was going to look after her and she wasn't ready for his love yet, that was just before I had to call the police... anyway I threw down the phone on her, only for her to call the kids and upset them even further because I was crying, they were crying at this time. Yes in front of friends. what a mess.

She called back and said that I should not talk about losing the kids to them (and she was right) but its way to difficult in the heat of the argument in front of all these people). I listened to the rest of what she said and didn't say anything. If I had I would have said stuff I regretted.

That night I SMS'ed her to say that we had to get through this as quickly and as painlessly as possible. She does not understand how this interaction hurts, she doesn't understand that I could have handled and would have handled anything apart from her going off with another man. Who knows if this is the right thing to do now? I certainly don't. I just know that I could not do a 2nd affair. Anything but that. And that's what she did.

Other news? She has had to take the Dog, that was also really hard, he went with her today. I couldn't look after him properly being at work 7 til 7 each day and he was messing and breaking things up. That has been incredibly hard again for me as he was a family member and in truth much of my company whilst the girls are asleep at night. Its better for the girls that my W has him, at least they will see him regularly. If W cant cope with him sadly he will have to go.

As for the Divorce Petition it has arrived, it hasn't been acknowledged so I should send it via Bailiffs but she says she is going to her solicitor on Wednesday so I will leave it til after then. Hopefully she will sign it and return it so I don't have to go down that road.

Best wishes Neil.

It seems to have been a pretty rum weekend for a number of people on MB eh Neil?

Well, you made a mistake by getting involved in conversation with your STBX - what can you do differently in the future? I think you know the answer. Neil, she can wind you up so easily at the moment with everything going on, it is probably best that you say "I'm really very sorry, but I can't talk to you now because, a)I've got food on the cooker and I'll burn the house down b)my friends are here, and have just arrived c) I'm going on a hot date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> " You get my drift. You must have been so furious to think of OM2 upsetting your girls and STBX blaming you for all and sundry along the way, so if it happens again give yourself time to cool down before responding.

Neil, if her cries of "I can't cope" means she wants to come home, do you want her home? Does this worry you that you would take her back if you could? You say something too later in your post. If not or if you cannot reconcile, then you must tell her very simply that whilst you love her and she is the mother of your children, you do not have a future as husband and wife. You must also tell her that OM2 has no right whatsoever to shout at your children and she must enforce that.

Sorry to hear about your dog too - yup, I know that family member feeling. Crazy how involved we get with our pets. In time, why not think about a couple of cats - I have two and they look after themselves but are still great company. Cats are much lower maintenance, but as I say still company.

Neil, I am so sorry your weekend was so tough. I think this will get harder before it gets easier, but hang in there.

Wishing you well from north of the river.
Lisa

Hi Lisa et al,

Sadly her words and her actions are completely different things. She can say that the words were because she wanted to come home but what actions did she take to make me see that? None. She still lived and slept with OM2. She could have gone to her Brothers and at least sent that message. She could have turned up at Relate and asked to attend but no there was nothing. Because of the history of lies during OM1 and the latest OM2 deception I do not trust her words, as sorry as that sounds and she may even be telling the truth.

I am not overly concerned about the kids and OM2. She has chosen him so in time the girls will have to accept that is who their mum is with. As I move on with other relationships they will see first hand that people can be happy. I don't think they will ever be ok with him as her partner though.

Last night she started again about money, its clear she expects a form of maintenance for her. We are sending the girls to another child minder because she thinks the other one is to expensive (more like she doesn't pull any punches). The girls are happy with the new lady so that's ok (we have used her before).

Of course my W keeps going on about my life now and what I am doing and how I am not paying my way for her properly and I shouldn't be doing this and that (like having a new Porsche etc). She saw some computer hardware in the house and assumed it was mine etc. I wish she would just leave me alone, it's crap that she still thinks she has a say in my life when I have had no say in hers this last year.

I did really well until the end when she told me that "You have punished me enough this year". I had to put the phone down. As long as she can be the Victim, OM2 her knight in shining armour and me the persecutor she is fine.

Relate was very helpful again so that was good. Am moving on and I wish she would to. She doesn't seem to realise that delaying the divorce petition etc just delays any financial agreement and I cannot pay any more anyway. I am getting to the point where I would rather let it all go and get out than have to keep going thru this with her. It's a nightmare of her own making.

Best wishes,
Neil.

Neil

Just a quick note - not sure which thread to post on, but have no practical suggestions about contact - the reply there seemed to make sense to me.

Anyway, are you still going to Relate? If you stopped, it may be helpful to keep going, because it is a very difficult time, and you need support from someone.

Also, is there anyone else who could potentially act as an intermediary? If you WW continues to talk about money, just tell her very calmly and quietly that you will be happy to go with any decison the court makes and will keep to that - if that is what you feel. It seems to me that she continues to cling on to things because she can't accept the reality or let go - i.e the interest in your computer things, your car, wanting to discuss money etc. Of course in the real sense, these things are not relevant, but she clearly finds it hard to accept that the DV is on it's way and she will loose you. However, much she may think she has it made with OM2, you have been a huge part of her life, and as the time draws nearer for a legal and final split, I think it is worrying her.

Anyway, Neil, going over to GQII to have a look at my thread - some marvellous support from people.

Chin up and stay strong.

Wishing you well from sunny north London this afternoon!!

Lisa

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa in London:
<strong>Just a quick note - not sure which thread to post on.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lisa you post bout my situation here I post about yours there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Anyway, are you still going to Relate?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I am going to Relate each monday night. I am not obviously following their normal programme due to the background. It has been very helpful all around, and I shall probably keep going to Xmas at least. Once the DV paperwork is well on the way I will probably be ok to stop or go less frequently. In many respects Relate has proved more beneficial than IC. IC worked well during the abuse/cutting stuff but not so much once W had left for OM2.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Also, is there anyone else who could potentially act as an intermediary?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No not someone I trust enough or want to let know about all this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If you WW continues to talk about money, just tell her very calmly and quietly that you will be happy to go with any decison the court makes and will keep to that - if that is what you feel.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what I feel and what I will do. If it goes to court she will almost certainly get less than what I am offering. I hope at some point the Solicitors can resolve it without Court intervention. Of course she needs to start acting signing stuff like the Petition before there is any talk of finances formally.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Of course in the real sense, these things are not relevant, but she clearly finds it hard to accept that the DV is on it's way and she will loose you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know that that is the case, you see there has been zero dialog about loosing me, just much dialog of this is what she needs and wants.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>However, much she may think she has it made with OM2, you have been a huge part of her life, and as the time draws nearer for a legal and final split, I think it is worrying her.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe so but thats a new on one on me!

We have spoken via text and I have said that I am no longer arguing about this stuff. I have loved her too much and too long to fight like this.

She is supposed to be seeing her Solicitor today so hopefully by the end of the week some petition progress will have been made.

Best wishes,
Neil.

Ah no, I meant you started another thread about contact, but I didn't have anyting to say there - don't have much to say here either, and don't know nothing about anything anymore!!

OK, listen, I don't know your W, but I am pretty sure that anyone faced with a DV petition - well it would really make them start to think. Even if you were in the worst relationship ever, and the papers arrived, it would still start things churing around - what was this all about, how did it get to this, we were happy once, we have 3 lovely children, things weren't all bad, he used to drive me nuts, wish he'd done XYZ for me - I think it is natural and inevitable, or it would be for me.

You yourself have said that what she has said to you, but then what she has said she means does not tally up at all.

"She views her calls "I cant cope" as a cry to want to come home, I view them as her trying to get more money."

Neil, if that's how she views it, she's entitled to, but you disagree or don't hear it like that because she doesn't back it up with anything and then talks about needing more money etc. She is a confused lady.

I'm glad to hear you are still going to Relate, I hope it helps you through this difficult time. I'm also glad you sent her a message saying you don't want to row etc. Stick with that, because all the arguing and fighting is so draining.

Take care Neil and wishing you well from grey old north London!

Lisa

Well my W says that the Divorce Petition is now signed and ready at her Solicitors so it's on to the next stage.

She sent me a confusing text message that I wanted divorce and she had romantic dreams about coming home which confused and upset me in equal measure. But my girls tell me she is looking for a new home to buy with OM2 so I guess its all smoke and mirrors again.

No idea what she really wants, talk about confusing. Actions are the only thing important to me anymore and the actions are not of someone remotely interested in our M.

Neil.

I got my copy of the divorce papers today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> My lawyer took three weeks to send them.

Neil

Sorry to hear that. She probably does still care, but for whatever reason doesn't take action. You are right, if she truly meant that she wanted to come home then she should show you with actions - buying a new home with OM2 doesn't do that does it..... I think that's what I meant in my previous posts, of course it will effect her, but will it to the point that she actually realises what she's done? Who knows, and for you you have to stick by looking after yourself and doing what is best for you and your girls.

Take care and hope you have a good weekend. Keep strong.

Lisa

Hi All, thanks Lisa,

Got away at the weekend, was my Brothers 21st too.

Girls were at W's for the weekend. They came home and we were all very tired and emotional Sunday night. Not quite sure but it just seemed to spark us all off. All 4 of us ended up crying over something or other. I felt pretty crappy and lonely being away from them and this whole sorry situation, the others missed me, and one Kathryn was just way to exhausted, she said some really sad things about it all that just cut right through to me.

Took ages to get calmed down, saying that I haven't cried much in many many months so it was a little something of a release. We ended up all going to bed at 9:30pm wrecked!

Neil.