I am considering a divorce from my wife of 4 years. It is my second and her third marriage. No affair driven, even tho' she suspects my envolvement with a co-worker. She has anxiety and depression problems (good physcologist and counseling). Much built up expressions of anger. Has it made. No job. Stays home. Both of us near 50. I provide for good financial security. I honestly don't feel appreciated and she has trouble remaining calm when we try to talk things out. I am basically laid back, want a peaceful, clean, organized home. She is very disorganized, late for everything, always in a rush to get there. I on the other hand am much more organized, and on-time. She rarely cooks at home and gets groceries. I have talked to her about her not pulling share of the chores and if I don't see any significant improvement in the next 6 months am serious about getting a divorce. Lots of my family don't see how I have managed so far. I am not a quiter but I do have limits.
All suggestions, etc. are welcome!!

Have you read the Concepts on this website? Based on the wording of your statement, I think you'll find this site to be helpful. But it sounds like you are looking for someone to validate your desire to divorce, rather than work on your marriage. Read and implement the concepts, then ask your question.

No affair driven, even tho' she suspects my envolvement with a co-worker.
I'm confused. You say there is no affair, yet you are having an affair with a co-worker?

She has anxiety and depression problems (good physcologist and counseling).
Of course she is depressed. Usually an affair will drive the other spouse at least a bit crazy/depressed because they are unsure of what is going on.

Your post says she does this, doesn't do that. What are YOU contributing to the marriage except money?

Harry -

Just have to say, before you make any life changing decisions, PLEASE read Surviving an Affair by Harley.

It may help you identify why you feel the way you do and why your wife acts the way she does.

Usually when there is unhappiness in the marriage it's because the spouses aren't meeting each other's needs and when one spouse stops meeting the needs of the other, both spouses usually start to withdraw until one spouse wakes up and brings them both back.

From my own experience, I can tell you that you CANNOT except your wife to make you happy if there is another person on the side. No matter what you may think.

If you read the concepts on this site, you will see that affairs are like addictions in their power and intensity and even trying to stop them makes you go through WITHDRAWAL - just like a person on drugs.

However, the GOOD NEWS is that you can have an ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE MARRIAGE once again if only both of you read His Needs Her Needs by Harley - info. is on this site too and begin to meet each other's needs. Harley has been doing this A LONG TIME and can help.

Perhaps you should give him a call so you can hear it for yourself and get a plan in place to save your marriage - it's a heck of alot cheaper than going through a divorce, believe me.

You can start by printing out the emotional needs questionaire and fill it out and ask your wife to fill it out too. Filling out the love buster quesitonaire is also a good one to fill out too.

It looks like you are on the right track, but if you don't figure out what is going on in this marriage, moving on to someone else will not fix the situation and you'll end up right back where you are now. Wouldn't it be better to be totally happy in your current marriage? It's possible, and it's not hard to do. You just have to do it.

GOod luck. K

Harry,
So your wife has all the problems?

Ever consider looking at YOU?

You sound like an arrogant *******!

HarryO:

Gee, I remember the TV show "Harry O"! David Janssen was a helluva lot better in the original "Fugitive" though, in my opinion.

"I am considering a divorce from my wife of 4 years. It is my second and her third marriage."

Doesn't sound like either of you has found what went wrong in the past. Look inwardly, and let her do the same.

"No affair driven, even tho' she suspects my envolvement with a co-worker."

What "involvement" would that be? Sounds like you almost are admitting 2 at least an EA.

"She has anxiety and depression problems (good physcologist and counseling). Much built up expressions of anger."

If this is true, the following statement must not be:

"Has it made. No job. Stays home. Both of us near 50. I provide for good financial security. I honestly don't feel appreciated and she has trouble remaining calm when we try to talk things out."

Sounds like she doesn't feel appreciated either. Or she feels like you expect 2 much of her.

"I am basically laid back, want a peaceful, clean, organized home. She is very disorganized, late for everything, always in a rush to get there."

Okay, so try cleaning up and organizing yourself. Don't even ask if she needs the help, just do it. Let her be late. It's not up 2 you 2 get her where she needs 2 be.

"I on the other hand am much more organized, and on-time."

Wonderful. Maybe we could hire you 2 clean up after US!!! LOL!

"She rarely cooks at home and gets groceries."

So, you cook and get groceries. It can be fun (and the reaction you'll get from her will make it all worthwhile).

"I have talked to her about her not pulling share of the chores and if I don't see any significant improvement in the next 6 months am serious about getting a divorce."

Now it's clear. She's depressed because she's got this "threat" hanging over her. Stop it. Stop expecting ANYTHING from her. You've got no right 2 expect anything she hasn't promised you. It's that simple. You can only control yourself and your attitude. And the latter, if you turn it in2 something positive, will be the single best thing you can do for your M for starters.

"Lots of my family don't see how I have managed so far."

I have no idea what they know about her, but I bet a lot of it comes from you telling them... ...and it doesn't sound like you make much of an effort 2 talk about her GOOD qualities (which she MUST have, or you wouldn't have M'd her, right?).

"I am not a quiter but I do have limits."

No, not reasonable limits, at least. EXPECTATIONS would be a better term. And, by the way, YES YOU ARE A QUITTER. Sorry about the judgement...

Take care, and try 2 do something selfless and thoughtful for your W without expecting anything in return. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised over time.

Hi Harry! I hope I am doing this right. I am new to this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I read your post and my heart is saddened. God can help you and your wife to have the marriage you desire! I know He can! Divorce is so ugly and painful and I hope you will first seek counseling-- from only a strong Christian.

Don't throw in the towel yet. Let me reword that. Don't thow in the towel at all!

It does not sound to me that there is anything so serious in your marriage that is not common to many marriages and can be helped! Pray together and pray for her. Keep loving her even when you don't feel like it. God will bless you for that!

You have had two previous marriages/divorces so this would make three divorces for you if you divorced (well,unless you were widowed which I don't know). When you lay on your deathbed, how will you feel? Will you feel regret or will you feel peace because you did what was right? Will you face death alone or will you face it with this woman you have married... and knowing that you worked through the difficult times? You vowed to love her 'til death you do part (I am assuming). Keep your vow! Even if it hurts!

You ask, "Should I do it?" and I say, "NO! NO! NO!
Show her unconditional love. Go to counseling. Pray with and for her. Bear with her and remember the verse that "love covers a multitude of sins." I don't think her disorganization is a sin though, just something about her that bothers you. Talk to her gently about it. Ask a counselor how you should handle it. It is not something that should lead to divorce and I'm sure it can improve!

I just went through a divorce with my husband (only a few weeks ago) and am praying earnestly for reconciliation/remarriage with him. Divorce is not the answer. I am 33 and this was my first and only marriage (married only 7 months). I know can see how horrible divorce is and how deceived we are thinking it is a solution!

God can give the two of you a truly WONDERFUL marriage. It begins with you! Don't wait for her. Be an example for her. Your unconditional love will both change you and change her and change your marriage. Make a decision to fight for your marriage!

Do you two go to a good church where you are involved? Do you have good Christian people in your life keeping you accountable and helping you? No matter what your age, that is very important. I will pray for you and I truly hope you will not even consider divorce. God bless you and please hang in there! It will be worth it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Debbie

I appreciate all replies! It is difficult to accurately describe the whole picture in a few paragraphs. But I'll try to add to some missing pieces of the puzzle.

First, for most of the last two years of our marriage I have done most of her home duties (except washing) in addition to working full-time. Many times if I didn't get groceries, we would have nothing to eat. She intends to go out but just can't quite make it out of the house. I come back from work and she is still in sleeping clothes. It got really bad for awhile and is better now.

I work one day per week with an OW who the W says is a "threat to her". I have reassured my W that I am married to you and you are #1. That there is nothing going on between us. I have never cheated on my ex-W or on this one but her previous H did a number on her (died of cancer this year). It really affected her and I see the need to reassure her in this area. But she constantly treats me with suspecion, which I dislike. She feels like I share all our personal things with my co-worker. Recently she said some stranger called the house and said she had pictures of me and her in a car together on the outskirts of town! (Before she revealed this, she asked me if I had ever met my co-worker after work. I said I did about one week ago and it was to exchange a CD she borrowed and we stopped at a church parking lot off a busy highway on the way to our separte homes!) I know this was a fabrication since we never even had lunch together in the 1 1/2 years I've worked with her. Anyway she acted very upset, then denied the photos but later said they did exist. Her parents got in on it and one day I stopped by to see them and asked about the pictures. They neither denied or admitted them and I told them that I needed to see them because someone is LYING here. They were ofcourse defensive of thier daughter but her Dad got out of his chair and almost attacked me physically. I calmly remained seated and his wife intervend. These people totally shocked me since I have had many meals and visits with them on the way home from work. My W has a way of convencing them that she is being treated unfairly and is hurting. I left that day on friendlier terms by the way, but it was several weeks before I stopped back by again!

My question is that someone here is lying and I know it is not me!! I've pretty much let this episode slide no that it has been 2+ months, but it sure did cause a lot of turmoil!

No, I am not without my faults and have tried to apply many of Dr. Harley's principles along with others to myself and our marriage. We have read sections of his books and I really get into it but she is less enthusiastic and her interest fades.

I have not given her any time limits in the marriage, but believe we need to somewho have goals to measure our progress with each week.

The future is still in or hands..

Hi Harry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well, I think you are doing some good things and it sounds as if you want to save your marriage, and that is very good!

I am not a counselor and don't know if my advice will help, and I want to be careful with the advice I give, but I really don't think there is anything in your marriage that cannot be overcome.

Let me ask you something that maybe will be personal for you? I don't know you at all, but are you in the Word (Bible)? I think you will find some really good advice there about loving unconditionally, persevering, even suffering! We all want to be happy and have what we feel we deserve (a good spouse!), but that's not God's priority for us. His priority is for us to be more like Him. I think that He can teach you so much in your situation because you are having to love when it is hard and you don't feel like it! That is what Jesus does with us-- loves us even when we are hard to love and when we let him down and don't meet our responsibilities. You are to be like Jesus to your wife, and I know that's a big task, but that is what husbands are called to do. Divorce should not even be in your vocabulary.

Don't give up Harry! Are you two going to a counselor? Well, actually, I think you perhaps should go alone to get some advice. I know there are things you can do. I'm not sure what though but I think a good counselor could give you some ideas and suggestions (on helping motivate your wife to clean, etc).

Do you think maybe she is depressed? Menopausal? Maybe she needs some anti-depressents although you might see if a counselor can suggest that to her and not you because it might hurt her if that comes from you.

How do you treat her on a daily basis? She is probably very aware of the fact that she disappoints you. Knowing that probably leaves her defeated with a lack of motivation. AND... perhaps that is why she is insecure about the other woman. She knows you are unhappy with her and she knows that some men who are unahappy with their wives, will often find someone who will make them happy. Her husband obviously did that. Don't give her any reason whatsoever to worry. Just keep reassuring her. Keep loving her EVEN when it's hard!! And even when you don't feel like it.

My husband had high expectations of me-- plus he had 2 children (he was a widower). I married him with no kids, no previous marriages, and I moved across the U.S. so there was ALOT of change and stress in my life and I was somewhat depressed as well.

It seemed like the more he wanted me to do the things he expected from a wife (cleaning, kid stuff, etc), the more I resisted. I am not sure why, but I think because I wanted to know that he loved me anyways. I wanted to know that he loved me even if I was not meeting his expectations (plus I lacked alot of energy/motivation due to things like in-law problems, the move, the changes, etc). Anyways, we did not go to counseling and I think if we had, it could have saved our marriage.

I can see why your wife's insecurities would be frustrating for you, but please know that many women struggle like that. There is alot of pressure on women to be beautiful and we see all the time older men having leaving their wives for younger, more beautiful women, etc. Your explanation of her husband cheating on her also sheds light.

PRAY! You really need to be praying and in the Word and church because you definitely will need God's strength to love her! You need to begin anew every single morning because it will take perseverence and alot of humility on your part!

Your needs are not being 100% met as you hoped and would like them to be, and it is difficult for you, and you really need to draw near to God to help you bear with your wife but also to give you wisdom how to help her become a good housekeeper, etc... which is where I think counseling could come in.

It is hard since I don't know you or your wife, but I really do not see any reason to divorce (or Biblical grounds for it).

You can not change her. But you can change you! You can get counseling which might give you and her practical ideas, and God can give you the strength and wisdom needed for your unfulfilling marriage. It probably will take time for her to become a good housekeeer, etc. Like baby steps. I do have to say though that it could be that she is unhappy/depressed and I think you need to search yourself and humbly ask yourself if you are doing things that might cause her to feel that way. A woman's esteem is largely wrapped in her man. That is just the way God created us wonderful creatures! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You were drawn to her in the beginning when you married her. Try to focus on those good things that first attracted you to her. Daily forgive her for her failures. Bear with her. Talk to her, but do so with gentleness, patience, and understanding.

Have you shared with her how you feel? Maybe you can ask her, "Honey, what can I do to help you?" And you know what I believe? If she does not want you near that other woman, then don't go near that woman if possible! Do whatever you can to save your marriage and love your wife, even if you feel your wife's "demands" are selfish.

Well, I hope you will keep us informed. I see much hope in your situation and I truly hope that in 10 yrs, you will come back here and tell us how God turned your marriage around! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I sincerely appreciate the comments from Debrahann! It was comforting and encouraging to read your kind words.
Yes, we both are Christians and desire to follow God's will in our lifes. Just last night we listened to a video by Gary Smalley on marriage and it was very helpful. I will be more in tune to her needs and ask God to become a "better man" at whatever cost. I do agree it is worth it.
I am a firm believer that conflicts need to be addresses and resolved in a calm manner and to boths satisfaction. Life is too short. HarryO

Harry -

It sounds like your wife may be showing signs of depression.

It's not like people not to get out to the grocery store and the like.

Has she been to the doctor lately? and would she be opposed to going to possibly get on some meds if it was needed?

Or at least it sounds like she needs to go to a counselor to talk to someone about what is going on with her.

She may be reacting in a drastic manner because she does think that you are having an affair. If so, you will be able to tell by the responses on this board, that if you think someone is cheating on you, it makes you do really crazy things and makes you very depressed. So she is really not acting out of character for her situation so to speak, but yet she needs to address what is going on and do something to help herself.

You may want to try the four rules of recovery with her - you can find the information on this web site and in Surviving an Affair by Harely. Even though you are not having an affair, if wife thinks you are then you need to rebuild her trust and this can easily be done by following those four rules.

It sounds like if you follow some of these MB steps and such that your wife should be able to come around.

But do look into the possibility of depression. I was depressed during the marriage and it did affect my ability to do things, and my H withdrew instead of trying to help me find a solution, and then he withdrew into the arms of another woman, when we could have easily worked things out.

You seem to be on the right track. K

My W has been on anti-depressants/anti-anxiety meds for at least 8 years (after first divorce) and has a good psychiatrist. Has tried lots of different ones. We both had counseling with excellent Christian psychologist and her individually. Ran up $$$ above insurance limits. I purchased a $400 video course by the Mid-West Center for Anxiety & Depression over 1 month ago and she has listened with me some when I ask her but she doesn't initiate. This I can't understand. They are excellent tapes and if someone had thought enough about me to spend that kind of money on something that could really help me, I would have watched them non-stop until the end!
Short term benefits from counseling in person then back to old ways. Never really did her assignments.
We had a good talk last night and are going to be away together on a business trip of mine so I hope for a pleasant time.

Hi Henry,

I'm glad to hear that you and your wife have a weekend together... and out of the house! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope it is a wonderful time for you both!

Remember that even if she were to never change, God can help you and bless you. I have come to this point with my husband. Well, we are divorced but I am willing and praying for reconciliation and was willing while we were separated. For the past few months though, he has been very cruel to me. During our marriage, he was also critical and controlling and I wanted out! I couldn't believe how tempting and easy it was to just want a divorce. But then when it was him wanting it, the reality of it hit me.

And as I studied Scripture, spent time in prayer, went to counseling and spoke with Godly people, I realized that divorce is not God's will for us. My eyes were really opened. Divorce is not part of His plan. It is man's way out of something that God sees as unbreakable.

Anyways, my point is this-- I came to the point where I realized I must love my husband regardless! Regardless of how he treated me and even if he were always a controlling, critical person. Why? Because I made a vow in the sight of God and human witnesses. I promised to love him even "for worse". God gave me no guarantee that he'd always treat me good or that we'd always be in la-la land. God expects me to love even if it's hard. Even if it's not returned. Just as Jesus loved us. To the point of death. He was mistreated, abused, unappreciated, etc... yet, he loved, loved, loved and never took the "way out" (zapping us all! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). He is our perfect example.

I also realized that I cannot change my husband but God can change me and could help me to love even when it was hard. I hope I will get that chance again and if not, at least I have the peace of mind that I have done all I could to try to save our marriage. I know I don't know your whole situation, and it is very difficult when in the midst of it. I know when I was in it, I couldn't hardly see straight! What really, really helped was other Believers encouraging me to hang in there! I had a friend who fasted and prayed with me, who counseled my husband (with her husband), who daily encouraged me, etc. I hope you can find someone like that (a man!). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know that love also doesn't just "enable" a person to be in a bad place... like you and your wife. God's will is not for your wife to be a bad housekeeper, etc. And that is where counseling for you can help because there are probably things you can do to somehow motivate her (w/o her knowing what you are up to! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I am not enough of a counselor to know what you can do though! Well, praise and compliments go a long way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But... change does not happen overnight. Change comes slowly. So you will have to be patient and persevering which is where God has to help us because that is not our nature. But in the end, your faith and character will grow, and even if your wife never changes, you will have the reputation of a Godly man and a loving husband. Keep your eyes on Jesus and the Truth because it is very easy to get distracted and believe lies of the world (divorce as a way out, etc). I know because I was there! I will pray for you and for your wife.

Could you possibly afford to have a housekeeper come in one time and just clean it all up? Give that as a gift for your wife. I say that because maybe the task is so overwhelming for her right now that she is just unmotivated to the point of doing nothing because it's too overwhelming and depressing. Maybe something like that would lift her spirits and also give her hope in that she can start with a clean house rather than trying to make up for her lack of cleaning and tackling the house as it is now.

Maybe a counselor can help even just by helping her to set goals (Mon- vacuum, Tues- dust, etc). Every success she has will build her up and give her more confidence, so help her to be successful.

I was a teacher and saw how I had to help a child be successful for him to gain confidence so he'd then try things that he previously expected to fail at (and thus, wouldn't try). Before the hard books, I had to let him read easy books. Or create a test that I knew he could pass. Etc. I had to heap on the encouragement and acceptance as well. Sometimes, when we know that we are capable of something, we expect others to be also and get frustrated with them for not being as capable as we are when it seems so clear and easy to us. But that translates as lack of acceptance to that person and just makes the person feel like a failure.

Be her friend and love her as your own self. Ask God for wisdom on how to help her. You two are in this together. She is "flesh of your flesh, and bone of your bone" and she is one with you. Treat her with great care and compassion and empathy. That can go a looooong way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I know it will feel like she does not deserve it and you will also want to say, "But what about me?" God tells us to deny ourselves, to sacrifice, to love others to the point of laying our life down for them, and you may have to lay down your needs and "rights" and ask God to meet them in ways that perhaps your wife is not. It will take great endurance, strength, patience, and humility on your part, so don't do it without much prayer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope I have not written too much here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless you!