My xh is mad at me because I am celebrating our boy's (3 & 7) birthdays separately. He is now saying that I am isolating him from the boys and that I do not want the boys to have a relationship with him. We have discussed this in the past before and after our D and I told him then we would be celebrating holidays and birthdays separately. He is totally against it and said that he won't be celebrating twice for the boys.

Now, he has returned all of the boy's toys from his house that I gave him for the boys when they are over there. He recently told me that he will be returning the beds I gave him for the boys when they are over there. He said he is doing all of this because he is reinforcing that their is no relationship between he and I.

I am totally lost, I am totally confused. I have no idea where all of this has come from.

I have told my xh that we are divorced and that we are two families now (he recently married). I told him that we will be celebrating separately and that it is too hard and too confusing for everyone involved to do these celebrations together.

He is also saying that I am not doing this or anything else in the best interests of our boys. I have done everything in my children's best interests. It is not right to pretend we are all one big happy family and that nothing ever happened.

Any input? I am not backing down, I really don't see or understand why my xh is going to such extremes.

Kathy

Abandoned Mom- I am with you I am confused??? Why should you celebrate together - especially if he has a new wife - You are correct you are now two families
- I don't remember your story but I am assuming that your husband wanted the divorce because of your name - so why should he expect you to celebrate at his house or you invite him to yours - I am thinking that the boys should get used to the idea that you are divorced - And the toy and the bed thing is just plain childish ?? I mean are they not allowed to bring over their favorite toys??? And I think you are right for not backing down - I just got divorced and because it is so new and neither one of us have anyone else I plan on letting my ex husband come and watch the girls open Christmas Presents this year and this year only - I assume we will celebrate everything else seperately - I mean that is what divorced people do??? And you have no idea why he is doing this???

Kathy,
What your xh has done is immature and childish. He is "cutting off his nose to spite his face" as they say.

On one hand, this may work in your favor because he'll alienate himself from his kids if he stays on this course. How many times have we seen posts on this board from parents who have their spouse trying to BUY their kid's affection? Make sure you reinforce your love with your kids, and if you are able, say something positive about their dad. After all, that's what he is, even if his actions are silly. That might counteract any incorrect negative things he might be thinking you are doing.

Is it possible he's returning those things because they came from you, and he intends to purchase his own? That would reinforce the "no relationship" thing he mentioned. Just a thought.

MAW - I think your idea for Christmas is good! I know this first year will be difficult (me too, but my kids are older), but if you can handle it, this would be a good "stepping stone" to the NEXT Christmas, when we're all hopefully in a better emotional place.

Thank you Avondale - I am hoping I can do it - if I just take it for what it is - for the kids I should be ok - as long as I don't think about it to much - my girls are 9 and 12 and my 9 year old still believes that is the basis for this year - next year - he is gonna be on his own - this year I also bought all of the presents - and he is suppose to pay me half - we will see - thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

maw64-

Thank you for responding. I am still confused but this was how our marriage was also, only thing is I am not backing down, I am not allowing him to control me.

He is returning the toys and beds because I gave them to the boys. He doesn't want anything in his house that has to do with me. At least that is what am getting from this.

I feel really bad for my children because their dad absolutely refuses to celebrate their birthdays with them, only if everyone is together.

I allowed my xh to come over Christmas morning last year as we had just recently separated and everything was still too new for the boys. It was very hard but I know it was for the boys best interests. I even allowed my xh to come over for their birthdays last year too as they are right around Christmas too. I did all of this for the boys and I told my xh then that it wouldn't happen again. At that time he was arguing about Christmas and not celebrating it more than once. Now that is okay but the birthdays aren't. Huh?????? It was very hard to do this last year but I focused on my boys and everything went smoothly.

avondale25-

Thank you so much for responding too. I hate that my xh has done all of this, he is hurting the boys and making them suffer. I really don't think he sees this though. He is mad at me because of the whole birthday thing. Every bit of this erupted because I am not celebrating the boy's birthdays with him and his family.

I am really concerned because my xh said that he will be expressing his point of view to the boys the next time he sees them. I feel so bad for my boys.

I would like to think that he is returning the boy's toys and beds because I gave them to him for the boys and he is purchasing new ones. These beds were the boys when we were married and I had to get bunkbeds when we moved. I gave these to him because I was thinking about the boys. He specifically stated he is proving his point by returning these items but I am still trying to figure out what point he is talking about. He is doing this out of anger and hostility. I really don't think he sees what this is doing and going to do to the boys.

Kathy

^^^^

Any other input? Now my ex is threatening me regarding our child custody arrangement and is no longer happy with it.

Thanks
Kathy

What an a$$ your ex is acting like regarding you and your children. Trying to continue to be a cakeman after divorce, NOT!

Your ex sounds a bit controlling and manipulative, yes?

The co-birthday party demand didn't work, returning the toys didn't work, returning the beds won't work. NOW he </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> is threatening me regarding our child custody arrangement and is no longer happy with it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am not backing down </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">THIS is what is working! Good job!

You've set a boundary, he doesn't like it and will try everything in his power to make you fold. Kathy, don't fold! There will be a next threat "to get his way".

Keep communication simple/direct/to the point and don't try to figure him out. Treat his comments like water off a ducks back.

Hang in there!

(((((HUGS TO KATHY)))))

Gayle

Hi Kathy,

I'm a second wife, and I've been on the other side of this issue.

Last year (2001) I spent birthdays and Christmas with my husband's ex, her stbx, and the children. Talk about uncomfortable! I can't believe your ex wants to do this now that he has a wife. It would be one thing if you were divorced and friendly (or tying to work out your marriage) but he's MARRIED to someone...

And he's acting like a big spoiled baby about the beds and toys. What a knob.

You said he's trying to change custody? What is it now? I'm assuming he has them every other weekend (EOW) and maybe a day during the week?

Finally, remember that he has to get a lawyer involved to do things like change custody... that takes time and money.

Best wishes...

AB
The reason that your ex husband wants to return toys and furniture that you gave the boys may not be a direct cut to you.
He is married to someone else now and probably wants to provide the children with furniture and toys that he will only associate with memories of his children and wife.
That is not so weird or unhealthy when you really think about it.
My ex and I bought alot of funiture together , but this bonnet top queen ann highboy reminded me of him so much that I gave it to my daughter just to get rid of it. I'd be on the sofa with my husband and admire and remember when we bought it-IT HAD TO GO!
It was a very nice and expensive piece! Yet it took my to the past and I was remarried and did not want to be in the past , but only the present with my husband. My husband did question why I had parted with it. When I told him why, he was very understanding and thankful that I cared more about my present life and future with him and did not want to look at something everyday that reminded me of the past like some country western song.
What was-was. What is-is. I choose to be in the present. Not to be unkind, but this may be what your ex is trying to accomplish. Time changes things and at differant speeds for each individual.

Ezra (and Kathy)
One good thing about posting in a forum like this is that you get a lot of different opinions from different people. I had not thought of the possibility that Ezra mentioned until I read it...and it makes good sense. As always, we should weigh everything and see what applies to us, and then decide. Thanks for helping me to see another possible side to the furniture story. (But it still doesn't explain his "anger" about celebrating b'days and holidays separately!)

Kathy, should you be in contact with your lawyer regarding the threat of change in your CS arrangement? Just to give a "heads up", maybe.

<small>[ November 14, 2002, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

Hi AbandonedMom! So sorry this has happened to you. Look at it this way - you have 2 wonderful children and NO Crybaby in the house - your ex is acting like a child who can't get what he wants so he's going to cry about it.
Waaa waaa waaaaaa - what a baby! So start treating him like one.
My ex did the same thing to me, so I had to do a few things to wake her up - she left me alone after that...
Harold

AM,
I didn't really address the fact that your ex is s

upset about your refusal to celibrate the children's birthdays together.
Stick to your gut feelings on this. It's weird to gather together with ex's for birthdays. Let's face it . What is his problem.? Your not married to him-he should do this alone with his family!

Like this would be good for any of you? Maybe he is just cheap and too much of a penny pincher and does't want to spend the money for the extra birthday parties. You are very justified in your feelings of not wanting to celibrate your children's birthdays together-you are not "together" so why should you pretend? Tell your ex to live with the circumstances that are "real".

Abandonedmom-

Just wanted to let you know that we have traditionally had two or three different birthday parties for our kids for years - and this was even when we were married.

We'd have one with ExH's family and one with mine and then one with the children's friends.

So when we were separated, we did the same thing. I had a party with my family and ex had one with his and we even had two parties one at each house with their friends- so that's 3 or 4 parties there.

The KIDS LOVE IT! More time for them to be celebrated and be the center of attention and to have others tell them how happy they are that they were born - which is the point of the party.

We did the same with Christmas - we spend Christmas eve at two houses and then Christmas Day at three, sometimes four - our house, then ex's parent's, then ex's grandparents, then my parents.

Thanksgiving - one house for lunch, one for dinner.

So, it is not so abnormal to have more than one party - but it just may take some getting used to by ex, and anyway the focus should be on the kids not on the parent.

As far as him giving back the furniture, I'd just say thank you and either use it or sell it and make a big deal about him buying new furniture with the kids. This does several things. One it gives you property to use or sell and two it takes the wind out of his sails - he was waiting for an argument and he didn't get one.

I'd just say thanks and move on. K

Ragamuffin - Yes, my ex is very controlling and manipulative. This was our entire marriage, of course I didn't really see it until he was gone. Thing is, I ALWAYS backed down, I NEVER stood up to him. Since our D this is the first really big thing that has come up that I refuse to back down. I am struggling but I am getting through this. Needless to say I have been speaking to my counselor more than twice every day this week........very much needed support for my sanity. Also, this post and all responses has been so very helpful. Thank you so much for your input!

new beginning - I have tried telling my ex that this is too weird for all of us, too uncomfortable for all of us, we are divorced, you are re-married. No, no, no, no..........He is telling me that everyone I am speaking to about this and telling me that his wants in this situation are ridiculous and not in the best interests of the kids are wrong.......he is saying that the people he is talking to celebrate everything together as one big family and everyone gets along and accepts life as it is. This is so bizarre! Custody is currently every other weekend but he doesn't get them one day in the week because he works 2nd shift. He does pick them up right after school at 2:30pm on Friday and I pick them up Sunday around 10:30am and the boys and I go to church. He keeps saying he wants the boys every weekend and I said no.....but I am very willing to work with him if he wants to plan things that are not on his weekends or something during the week and to just get with me to make sure the boys and I don't have plans. This hasn't happened. Whenever I have to go somewhere and do something and the kids can't be with me I ALWAYS contact him first so that he can have some extra time with them even though my parents and brother are very willing to help out. Thank you so much for responding!

ezra - I want so badly to believe that my ex brought the boy's toys back and will be bringing their beds back because he doesn't want memories of me in his home. Thing is, this NEVER has come up before until now. He is angry at me and his next response was this. He specifically told me that when the boys come over for their weekend he is going to sit them down and tell them that he brought their toys back because mommy doesn't want to have a relationship with daddy, mommy is mad at daddy, mommy doesn't want a connection with daddy, this is all mommy's fault. What am I suppose to say to my children? I don't even understand what is going on! I have told my ex continuously that we are not together anymore, we aren't celebrating together. He refuses to celebrate their birthdays with them because I won't do it together. Thank you for your input!

GIIC - I have finally stuck to my boundaries 100% and my ex doesn't like it. I have never before stood up to him without backing down shortly thereafter. Not this time, I know that my children's best interests are being served. My ex keeps saying all of this is about me and it isn't. He refuses to celebrate their birthdays with them since we aren't doing it together and keeps saying that his reasoning is because the boys will think they are special because we are divorced and get two birthdays and lots of presents........he is going to tell the boys that everyone is born once and everyone has a birthday one time even with mommy and daddy being divorced and that mommy is not being an adult about this.......I have told him that it isn't about them being special, they are whether we were divorced or not, it revolves around special circumstances. He thinks that the boys will be competing with us and pitting us against each other. I have told him that we are adults and we are the parents and we can curb that if and when it comes up. I don't know, none of this makes any sense. This was my entire marriage........I am probably one of few that has never wanted to reconcile with my ex.....I saw the light after he left.

Thanks so much for responding!
Kathy

Kathy - this is all sounds so wierd - everyone is right in their responses - most kids do have more than one birthday party anyways ...And like I said the bed and the toy thing is childish - if he brings them back to bad take them and sell them - he can get his own - the boys might even like new beds. I cannot imagine that his new wife (like new beginning said ) would want to hang out with you and your children - talk about an awkward situation... I don't know how old your boys are but maybe if you sat them down before their Dad did and said - you know I don't know why Daddy feels this way - but I am uncomfortable being with him and his new wife and he thinks I should be happy about it - just tell them that you love them but you think that you should all celebrate seperately - I don't know tell them they will get more presents this way or something that they can relate to. Tell them to reassure them that you don't hate their Dad but that you just think it is to wierd for you - and you are not one big happy family.. Don't let him put the blame on you - or manipulate you into doing something you do not want to do... Stay strong.....

I feel like my xh is still trying to control and manipulate. We have been communicating by e-mail and every time he responds he keeps asking me to send him info. regarding the way I feel or my philosophy regarding the boys and not celebrating birthdays and holidays together. What is this? I haven't responded to this yet because my gut feeling is not too.

What do you think he is doing? He keeps saying that my not wanting to celebrate together is selfish and in my best interests and not my children's. He believes that it will be in our children's best interests for him and his wife to celebrate our children's birthdays with all of my family.

This has gone on now for a week.............I am so sick of this.

Thanks for any input,
Kathy

Remember - you can only control yourself.

So I would e-mail him back - in a very nicely worded, non-confrontational e-mail(you may want to have others read it first to make sure) and just tell him what you will be doing.

Something like - I know that we have different points of view on this matter, but after much thought and consideration regarding the welfare of the children I have decided that having them celebrate holidays with each of us separately is in their best interest at this time. So, I am letting you know that you may celebrate the birthdays and holidays with the children in whatever manner you choose, however, I will also be celebrating the birthdays and holidays with them as well. I appreciate your thoughtful consideration and concern about this matter, and will work you in the future to ensure that the children are able to have quality holiday time with us both.

And then leave it at that.

If he e-mails back with more requests for info. Just e-mail him back that you have already made a decision on the matter and have previously e-mailed him your reponse and attach said response, just in case the earlier one got lost.......

Remember, just be pleasant with whatever you send, and DON'T BACK DOWN, and don't try to explain - because it won't do any good anyway - do you really think you can change his mind? or that he really wants you to change his mind?

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. K