Hi .. I just found this BBS and am hoping I can get some advice about the best course of action to follow.<P>I am an Irish guy living in Japan and married to a Japanese woman for the past 5 years or so. When I first met her she was a bright, cheerful and slightly wild woman, all of which I liked about her. As time went by there were occasions when she would feel very down and spend the whole day crying. She is a singer / composer by profession and I always kind of put this down to her artistic temperament. She had serious issues with her father when she was a child and it has left her mentally scarred and lacking in confidence. She attributes what she sees as her lack of success to these childhood issues. However, until recently, these bouts of depression lasted just a day or so, and I could easily comfort her and talk her out of it.<BR>During the past year things have taken a turn for the worse. This was brought about by a failed affair she had with an older man who seemed to remind her of her father. The affair never really got off the ground and she told me about it immediately. I mean from the very first day, because she always tells me everything. The other man basically got scared of her intensity and rejected her (he was also a married man). For several months after that she sank deeper and deeper into depression. She felt an intense hatred for him and at times was about to call his wife and tell her what had happened, until I stopped her from doing it. She also felt guilty that she had hurt our marriage, which is not true, as I told her a thousand times. For me the whole affair was unimportant, so I can say with total certainty that her concerns about damaging our relationship are groundless.<P>In any case, it got to the stage where she cried every day, wouldn't go out, didn't want to meet anybody. Finally it dawned on me to wonder if there wasn't something clinically wrong with her ... I mean it had of course occurred to me before, but I have never felt jsutified in insisting she get professional help, since the episodes quickly passed. So after some resistance, she went to see a doctor. He confirmed she was suffering from clinical depression. This was about three months ago, and she started on medication and counselling. She improved remarkably during the first few weeks, and I had real hopes that she could put all this behind her. But in the past week everything has fallen apart. She is back to her lowest condition. She cries all the time. She feels useless. She won't do anything in the house, or go out.<P>All this is kind of long winded, but what I really want to know is how to help her. Until now I've more or less smothered her with kindness, more or less trusting in the doctors to get her well. But now I have doubts. Japan has never been that advanced in psychiatric medicine. She receives counselling about once a month ... is that really enough? The doctor tells her to rest and do nothing. That's fine by me, but is it really good for her? She watches me cleaning up the place and preparing food and feels herself worthless. I have often thought that maybe if I was more strict and tyranical she would never ahve gotten to this point in the first place. She has always loved to be spoiled, even when she was at her best. So should I insist that she do some chores, just to have something to feel good about. As it is she basically has a lot of time on her hands, and is free to sit around all day reliving memories of her father and this other man. She also spends a lot of time visiting a Japanese internet BBS dealing with depression. And just reading some of the messages, it really is the most depressing place I have ever come across. I mean ... I know that group therapy can be beneficial, but that statement was made before the days of instant communication BBSs and Chat Rooms. It is really a good thing to spend most of every day sharing other people's depression? I can't believe it is.<P>So what should I do? Is what's happening the normal course that depression and it's cure follows? Is it best to just let her be, and support her as I have been doing? Or should I try to make her move herself a bit?<P>If anyone has experience with dealing with a depressed spouse, I would appreciate any advice. I would especially like to know what the real chances of her getting back to normal are, and the best way for me to improve those chances.<P>Thanks

Irish Guy,<P>I too, have a wife that suffers from depression plus has very low self esteem and an avoidance personality. At this time, she is in counseling and taking a low dose of Prozac daily.<P>In the past, I tried to the best of my ability to attempt make her world smooth. I bent over backwards to try and keep her happy and upbeat. I didn't push issues with her because of her reactions (tears, accusations and withdrawl). This went on for the first 3.5 years of our marriage, then I stated that I believed something was wrong. The next 1.5 years were spent trying to figure out what was wrong.<P>During this time, I suspected that she was depressed and had a low self esteem. Finally this past April when she and I were talking, she confessed that she has been waiting for me to leave her since we were married because she was sure that once I got to really know her, that I would leave her. That was the final straw; I told her that I suspected that she had some real issues to deal with and that she needed to get help. I stated that I couldn't do it nor could I make things right in her world. This was something she would have to do for herself for our marriage's sake and for the kids.<P>Since then, I have seen some improvements, but nothing dramatic. She seems to be moving very slowly with dealing with the issues and the only time she discusses things is once a month when she goes to counseling. No personal independant growth or reflection for her.<P>The biggest challenge I face is trying to keep myself from slipping into withdrawl towards her. By her dealing or not dealing with depression and the other issues, she doesn't have the emotional energy left over to give to me. Everything seems to be about her....she is so very needy. And, I have nothing left to give.<P>You are faced with a large challenge in you relationship with your wife. I will put more thought into this, but, I am still feeling overwhelmed with living with my wife's depression.<P>The only hope I can offer you is, that every day in a new start and you can hope for a better tomorrow. Although, that is hard to do unless the depressed person is willing to actively seek help for their condition.<P>Hang in There!<P>Scott

Irish guy--<P>has she stopped taking her meds??<P>I was teh depressed wife. Meds did wonders ofr me. But I took myself off them once too early. And then went back on. I am now off and doing better than ever.<P>I would encourage your wife to do SOMETHING. If you think housework wouldn't work (which she really should be responsible for something at home) then have her volunteer her musical knowledge somewhere.<P>Oooops---I've got to go, more later, good luck.

Irish guy & Scott --<P>I am a depressed wife being treated with medication. It took my husband leaving for me to realize that something was seriously wrong and that I wasn't getting the help I needed. He says he told me; I didn't hear it.<P>Your wives feel completely helpless. They don't know what is wrong. They don't know how to even begin to help themselves. They are totally absorbed with themselves, and that's just trying to survive from day to day. They are hurting. Either they don't want to hurt others and are folding into themselves, or they are wanting to lash out at people who they think are hurting them. They don't trust their own judgements.<P>It's confusing, it's lonely, it hurts, it's frightening.<P>You are their strength. They feel powerless. They feel powerless to help themselves.<P>Scott, I know you think your wife should be trying to help herself, my husband thought that too. But she doesn't know HOW to help herself. She doesn't know what is wrong. <P>Gentlemen, you are going to have to guide your wives to getting the help they need. You may need to meet with the Drs. too. You are going to have to tell the Drs. if your wife is returning to her 'normal' self. You are your wive's touchstone with reality. You will have to give her the feedback that will let her know if she is improving or not.<P>It's not easy to find the right Dr. nor the right medication. Consider changing either one or both.<P>I was placed on a low dose of Prozac for a little while with no therapy. It did nothing for me and I quit taking it. <P>Later, things got worse. I could quantify it because my performance and relationships at work began slipping. I started seeing a Dr. and also doing therapy with her. Initially I saw her once a week, then once a month, then once every three months. I thought things were going fine. I thought the new medication was working ok. My performance at work increased, as well as my work-relationships. But I didn't know that this was at a cost to my homelife. My husband didn't give me any feedback. He says he did; I never heard anything. He never called my Dr. to say that something was wrong. He felt that I should be doing it on my own. <P>I saw everything that was going on, but I felt that I couldn't do anything about it. I didn't know what was going wrong. So I tried to do nothing, hoping that by doing nothing I wouldn't mess anything up. Eventually I got upset because my husband wasn't even trying to help me.....which only drove me even further into my shell.<P>After he left, his family rallied together and contacted his brother-in-law, who is a Dr. He pulled out his resources and located a different Dr. for me. I was scared and resistant to changing Drs.; I felt it was being forced upon me. But I did make the change, and I am definitely much the better for it.<P>She listened to my family history, what I had been doing, and immediately changed my medication. The change has been remarkable.<P>The people at work noticed, our daughter noticed, my husband is still angry and refuses to notice, our families noticed ---- just about everyone did. I have more energy, I am able to stay on task, I smile, laugh, and joke again....I'm beginning to live again!<P>I also started seeing a separate therapist. She has been a great help too. She's helped me to understand what my husband has been going through.<P>Make sure your wife has a totally open and honest relationship with the Dr. and/or therapist. With the first psychiatrist I wasn't completely honest. I didn't lie to her, but I didn't tell her the *complete* truth. Theoretically the therapist isn't there to judge you or to testify on you, they are there to help. In order to have a clear picture, they have to know everything.<P>The other part is to either get yourself into your own counselling or meet together with a marriage counselor. Start this before it's too late. This is not an easy road to travel, a counselor can be a big help for you. They can help you with your frustrations and help you to help your wives.<P>The last thing I can think of is to look at the emotional needs survey. That might give you an idea of where to begin. You may find that she doesn't think any of her needs are being met....which will simply be an expression of how she feels (not an expression of what you are doing). Also, yours will tell her what she can do for you --- she probably wants to please you, wants your attention. But be careful when you talk about it, she may take it critically.<P>Anything else?<BR>- Take her with you to visit friends, etc.<BR>- Do things together -- cooking, yardwork, laundry, etc.<BR>- Let her know that you value her, that you want her with you, that you want to be with her.<BR>- 'Talk' with her. Not just business and everyday running of the house. Create dreams and plans together....show her your lives together have a future.<P>- Men who are depressed exhibit depression very differently from women.<P>"In sickness and in health --- this is the sickness. No one ever said that marriage'd be easy. You've got to work at it." [My mother's words.]<P>Sometimes I wish there was a marriage forum just for dealing with depression and it's impacts on marriages. Besides mine own that we're just beginning to work on, I know of one couple that has divorced because of depression and another one that is in trouble because of it. It's painful for all involved.<P>Please, get help before it's too late. <P>~ootf

Out of the Fog,<P>Thank you for your heart felt post. I have printed it and will spend some time thinking about what you have written.<P>I will respond, because I am sure I will have more questions for you.<P>Hang in There,<P>Scott

Scott,<P>Ask away. I'm not an expert....but I am trying to empathize with what my husband has gone through. <P>I just went today and took another step that I should have written about in my first post. Get a complete check-up with a Dr. --- specifically with an eye towards determining if there is a medical cause for the depression. Family history may or may not be significant. You may need to go with your wife and tell the Dr. what changes in her behavior and any changes in physical complaints she's had over the past several years.<P>I told the nurse when I scheduled an appt. two months ago that this was to talk about my depression. She scheduled extra time with the Dr. so that we could talk about everything has been happening. <P>I sat down with my mother and wrote out as complete a medical history as I possibly could, focusing on events that would have caused hormonal reactions and any notable effects (puberty, miscarriages, cysts, allergic reactions, etc.). And I tried to track down copies of tests and medical records that pre-dated my files with my HMO. I took all of this with me to the Dr. He didn't look at all of it, but I had it there for reference.<P>In the past and because of family history, we've been looking at thyroid function. Today he tested my cortisol levels (corticosteroids), looking for an elevation in them. I may know something by the end of this week.<P>I'll say this much though, it was a relief to sit down with a Dr. who didn't treat me as if I was nuts or a hypochondriac. It was frustrating and insulting to go in and tell Dr. after Dr. that x, y, and z are happening, but I don't know why --- and they'd just treat the one or two key symptoms that were bothering me and ignore the rest. They wouldn't look for an underlying connection. I had to ask my brother-in-law for a recommendation of someone to see. I had been to internists and an endocrinologist, but the person he referred me to is a family practitioner. I don't know if the difference is the particular Dr. (personal) that he referred me to or if it's the specialty of the Dr. (practical - job description). <BR>Either way, it may be difficult to find a Dr. who is willing to work with you on this. But it is something that needs to be checked.<P>[I just realized something. If my husband ever gets on here and reads these posts, he'll know right away who I am and can track down my other posts. Hmmm.... oh well! Can't worry about that now.]<P>~ootf

ootf,<P>That is a good idea for her to get a complete medical check-up. I'll suggest that to her.<P>Some back ground information....she does take Prozac and goes to counseling every three to four weeks. And, on Monday, the counselor said that she was no longer depressed.<P>I would agree that she is not as stressed as a few months ago; but, I'm not sure she is over the depression. Since she has been taking the Prozac, she seems to have developed a devil may care attitude. Nothing seems to be a priority to her, unless it directly affects her. What I mean is, her needs are important, mine are not.<BR>The kids some times fall through the cracks too.<P>Well, if I may ask....how did you behaviors change as you came out of your depression? How can I encourage her to be very open and honest with her counselor? How can I encourage her to look inside herself to see what makes her tick? (I know this sounds strange, but my wife really doesn't know herself very well.)<P>Thanks in Advance,<P>Scott

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nowhereman:<BR><B>Since she has been taking the Prozac, she seems to have developed a devil may care attitude. Nothing seems to be a priority to her, unless it directly affects her. What I mean is, her needs are important, mine are not.<BR>The kids some times fall through the cracks too.<P>Well, if I may ask....how did you behaviors change as you came out of your depression? How can I encourage her to be very open and honest with her counselor? How can I encourage her to look inside herself to see what makes her tick? (I know this sounds strange, but my wife really doesn't know herself very well.)</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your situation sounds a lot like what we've been going through. There's really only one thing that I repeatedly think you should do ---- YOU contact the Dr. and/or therapist.<P>You've got a perspective that the professionals don't have. They won't know about it unless you tell them. Don't count on your wife telling them; it's very easy to pull the wool over someone's eyes for one hour every few weeks.<P>Let them know that you are concerned about your wife, that she's told you that they say that she's 'cured' but that you still see some problems and you would like to talk about those problems and how to deal with them at home....how you can best help your wife. (Put a positive spin on this.)<P>They may be comfortable meeting alone with you, or they may not. You may have to have a joint session with your wife either instead of a private meeting with the counselor or after a private meeting. [Or they could refer you to a marriage counselor.]<P>Either way, the goals are to help your wife and to help the two of you communicate with each other.<P>My husband took the extreme action of leaving in order to get my attention, get me to be honest, and to get me the treatment I needed. He didn't take any intermediary steps. <P>Clearly you've already tried to talk to her (at least I hope you have). Just take it step by step. Contact her Dr. and meet. Change medications, change Drs. Get a Dr. for yourself to help you handle the stress. Meet with a marriage counselor. Plan A (which I assume you've been doing).<P>Don't give up!<P>Yes, it will be hard. Yes, your wife will go through serious attitude changes as she tries different medications. But there's bound to be something out there that will work for her.<P>I did move through a self-centered phase when I was on my first medication prescribed by a psych. I wanted so badly to get 'better'. But we knew that we were on the right medication when my co-workers commented positively about my behavior. It was a wonderful feeling. I now laugh and joke, notice little things in life, I smiled so much the first few days that my face and cheeks were literally hurting. More energy, reduction in pains, smaller appetite, weight loss, better concentration, patience, organization, increased libido, ----- a whole lot of things changed. More socially outgoing, more productive, more playful, more pleasant, more talkative. The changes are just simply amazing.<P>I know the right kind of help has got to be out there somewhere for your wife. But it's going to take time to find it, and your active assistance with the Drs. would be a big help. <P>good luck,<BR>~ootf

<BR>I am one of those girls who didn't have enough love when I was small/young... and those who want to be 200% loved, pampered, cherished, protected,worshiped, by her man/husband.<P>I got frustrated/suspicious/angered/depressed whenever I think that or I sense that my man doesn't love me enough...<BR>or suspected that he lies. I need 200% of attentions, love, hugs and intimacy. What I have said... which may or may not be the case of your wive, but: <BR>(1) is her IQ AND EQ good enough to read more about psychology to learn her own behaviour?<BR>(2) maybe, sometimes, medication & professional (specialist) counselling is needed.<BR>(3) reading self-help books helped me to<BR> reduce anxious feeling/suspicion/expectations.<BR>(4) are you ready to stand by her and guide her through her troubles?<BR>(5) do you have any reasons for her to feel un-loved/suspect?<BR>(6) is her depressions also due to other pressures like career/ finance problems / child-bearing problems / sexual problems?<P>Good luck. Best wishes.<P>