Not that I am ready to date at this juncture. Especially not since I have yet to be completely divorced. I have no designs on anyone, nor do I seek to fill a void.

I am just wondering if any of you that 'dated' while still married, immediately after divorce, etc. What happened to cause the "crash and burn" and of what did it consist? I always like to avoid problems if I know that they are out there. I understand that everyone says to wait because the first relationship is a 'throw away' but WHY??? I mean, what sort of things happen? What occurs that cause these relationships to be so destructive? I mean I can think of thousands of things that COULD happen, however, I was hoping that you guys and gals that have gone through them might be willing to give us a little story about what happened so that we as future society might avoid the same pitfalls. I understand WAIT. And I can understand why in several instances, but eveyone that hasn't seems to belong to a 'club' that others in the same situation all understand. But I still don't.

So if you all would. Give us examples of the problems that arose from these dates/relationships that helped you to realize that you should have waited longer.

Thanks...

My Post-Divorce Story:
Got divorced in June '98 although we separated in December '97. My (then) wife began dating her boss in January '98. He got divorced in October '98 and they married in November '98. They're still married today, and Hen-pecked is his middle name...
I began a long distance romance with a lady I had known back in '94 but we had lost contact, so I looked her up online and called her on the phone 6 days after my Divorce was final. My ex-wife found out about it and went ballistic - she's still mad today. I moved to Texas to be with this lady again. She was 11 years younger than I was at the time - I was 40 and she was 29 and divorced for 3 years when I met her again.
My ex-wife was unable to deal with my Gulf Illness: Narcolepsy, Sleep Apnea, Gastric Problems and Memory/Concentration Loss. Her solution for me was to tell me it was all in my head.
This lady I began dating in Texas was nice - at first; however, she was so attached to her Mother that she totally depended on her and did not know how to 'leave her father and mother and cleave to her husband' as the Bible Verse says to. I told her I didn't want to marry her Mother - I wanted to marry her. She couldn't let go. After probably 6 months, she began making fun of my Disabilities, etc.; making me feel like trash, etc. and getting into bad moods over it.
I got tired of her BS, so I packed up my stuff and moved out.
That's my story in a nutshell - sure, it's different than your average bear, but then again, not everyone here is Disabled, either. My suggestion - TALK A LOT OF THINGS OVER AS YOU GET TO KNOW THIS POTENTIAL MATE BETTER. Get to know each other well and open your love-struck eyes for things that might irritate you later with each other. After the Wedding Day is too late to start picking on things you should have talked over earlier during the Courtship and/or Engagement Period.
If he/she has apron strings to their parent(s) let them go and find someone else who is ready to face responsibility as an adult and not as a grown-up child.
Harold

Morning Formerly ....

You ask "Why wait?". Well I'll give you my list.

1. You have a trunk full of unmet needs and without spending time on your own, learning to be happy on your own and getting over the D mess and it's psychological and emotional trauma, you may very well let someone into your life who is not the right "fit". Net results, someone gets badly hurt.

2. Although lonely, what is the harm in waiting. You can spend time getting to know yourself as a single person. Rediscover your interests and your enjoyments as a free agent. Get grounded.

3. Getting hurt by a failed relationship via dating too soon after the D can only add to your unresolved issues regarding the D. Get over all of it so you're strong enough to take any rejection without it severly affecting you.

Formerly, I dated too soon and it became REAL serious REAL fast. He was talking marriage. I stepped back and saw that I was merely needy and had unresolved D issues. I hurt someone terribly. And I still feel so bad about that. So, along with my issues regarding the Divorce (betrayal and abandonment) I now have that to face as well.

It's a good thing you question dating too soon, Formerly. IMO, wait .... when you can feel true indifference regarding your WW, is when I'd say you may want to stick your toe in the dating pool. At least I think that's a good indicator.

God Bless

Lv,
Jo

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Formerly Confused - I think that is a great question because in most peoples eyes they don't understand my not wanting to date - Hell in their eyes my husband has moved on - he was dating while we were married - so why can't we as the BS date just a little, just for fun, I mean the WS has been doing it all along?? I am not saying anything serious - but what happens if the right person comes along - do you have to say hey I just got divorced I have to wait a year?? Someone explain??

Well, I guess I'm risking big time by sharing my experience as it doesn't seem to fit the norm around here.

Anyway, I went to my divorce trial on 8-28-02. My ex moved out on 3-25-01. During that time there was only 6 months or so that I had hope we would reconcile. I had from Sept 01 to Aug 02 to figure out who I was, what made me happy, etc. I still don't know for sure, who really does, but I do know I learned alot, changed alot, and grew in myself and my walk with the Lord.

I did not file for divorce as a ploy to get ex to change his mind. By Sept 01 I had truly decided I wanted better for myself and my children than to stay in that relationship. Don't get me wrong, I fought hard to make it work and I don't have any regrets because I know I did all I could. In the next few months after I filed I struggled with getting emotionally attached to 3 things. One was Marriage Builders, one was a guy I met on MB who I came to love dearly as a friend, and the other was an old boyfriend from highschool who was married.

I suppose you could say I've been through the throw away relationships already. I see how my emotional dependence on my MB friend was too strong too fast. It is very true that I was needy. I have a high EN of conversation and admiration and he did a great job of meeting those needs. I also am a peoplepleaser and I get great joy from doing things for others. While some people think I'm a gift giver looking for something in return or that I try to buy my friends, that is not true.

Anyway, I talked or sent e-mail to my new emotional friends alot. I lived for that. Then it was over. My MB friend disappeared. The old boyfriend from HS who I thought just wanted to be my friend because he was married, offered more and I knew then that I was in too deep.

But by being in that situation and then losing contact I discovered how not to react when someone meets my needs. I became aware of when I was setting myself up to get hurt and that most of it was my doing, not the other persons.

Months went by and I was lonely. But I didn't go searching. I did read profiles on Match.com because I thought it was interesting to see what kind of people I might meet someday. For 6 months I read, but didn't join the service. I had decided that I would not compromise and settle for just anyone who paid me some attention.

After my divorce was final( judge signed on 9-11) I started wanting to find some new friends to go places with. I invited a friend from far away to come out and go to a race with me to celebrate the start of my new single life. He is a dear friend and someone I love way too much to let a romantic notion even enter my mind. His frienship means too much to me. We had a great time at the race and all weekend just hanging out, talking, sightseeing, etc. But once he was gone, I was incredibly sad. I missed him. Not in a romantic way, I just missed the companionship. I felt more human and more alive than I had in years. I knew at that point I wanted to make some friends closer to home, but I wasn't looking for a new husband.

One night about 5 weeks ago, I saw a profile on match.com that really caught my eye.

Like I said, I had read hundreds but nothing really peaked my interest. However, this guy did. I joined the service, e-mailed him and a week later or so we talked on the phone. The first call we talked 4 hours. It was like we had known each other forever. During this call, my ex brings the kids home from his Wed night visit and tells me that he is flying to Vegas to get married. I was actually happy at that point because I realized just from that phone call that my life would go on. I could meet someone else who I care about. It was like God sent this guy into my life at the right time.

Anyway, after a few more e-mails and phone calls, we decided to go out. We've been seeing each other now for 3 weeks. I don't see our relationship as a throwaway, I've already been through that. I don't plan on marrying this guy any time soon. It may seem like I'm using him to fill a void but I'm not. I really like spending time with him. If it doesn't work out, fine but why should I have turned him down just because I might eventually get hurt. Yeah, I might but if we are open and honest with each other and neither of us pushes the other into uncomfortable areas, what's the risk?

I'm having a great time. He is a super guy. I didn't just contact the first person to come along. Neither of us is ready right now for a serious everyday relationship and both of us respect that. But we truly enjoy each others company and like spending time together. We are both Christians and understand what the marriage committment is supposed to be about. We were both hurt by our ex's and we know the grief and despair that dishonesty has in a marriage.

I'm sure you don't care about all this. I guess I just wanted to offer a situation where 2 adults can be friends and more than friends once they are over thier old relationships and to suggest it doesn't always take years and years like this board suggests.

I know this takes time but in my case and his, we have both lived almost 2 years with the knowledge that our marriages were over. Neither one of us wants to reconcile with our ex's. Mine's married now anyway and his has a steady boyfriend and even if they didn't there simply is no going back.

Everyone says wait. Well wait I did. I waited til my heart said it was ok. I'm 36. I'm not a child. I'm old enough to know what risks I'm taking and what the consequences of my action could lead to. I'm smart enough not to involve our children at this time. I'm strong enough to live my own life but share some time with him. I don't plan to become dependent on him. We both have our own lives, our own children, our own jobs, our own houses, etc, but we now share a common bond together by enjoying each others company.

I don't disagree that some people should wait, and wait and wait.... I just think it depends on the person. I am not a typical risk-taker but I've also decided nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I definately don't want my heart broken again. I didn't want my heart broken the first time BUT it happened. Should I hide from that pain forever and never give my heart a chance to love again???

No, I don't think so.

Thanks for letting me share my story..

PP

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: peoplepleaser ]</small>

maw64,

Thanks for your post. Your question is exactly what I was thinking. What's the point if you push the right person away once you are ready just because you haven't waited some pre-conceived waiting period?????

I'm having a great time and who knows my new friend could be the new love of my life. Then again, he could not be... Quite honestly it's too soon to tell. Maybe if someone wishes to discuss time periods to wait, we should start a thread on how long to get to know someone before marrying them......

Thanks again for your post.

PP

pp

Hi again Formerly,

I'd also like to offer that there are a bevy of Members here that dated and married very soon after their divorces.

It would be valuable to hear from them as well. I'm sure they have something to contribute in terms of "Too soon or not too soon dating" recommendations.

Lv,
Jo

FC,
O.K.
I was starved for attention after being married to a spoiled, wealthy alcoholic. I fell for the man that gave me the most attention. He smothered me, he was possessive. I mistook this as "protective" and loved the attention at first.
I married him(he was also my first puppy love in jr high)after 7 mos and it was the biggest mistake of my life. He turned abusive and I could have lost my life. I have a beautiful son though. I don't discuss his father with him unless he ask's. I give little bad info.
TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make sure your head is right before dating anyone.
If you do date(this is the best advice ever!)Do not date anyone for experimentation. Date only those that you could possibly see youself marrying. You never know what you will fall in love with!

Also, just a thought.

Most of the Affair books and literature state one of the many reasons a WS's affair and/or marriage will not last is because they didn't take the time to examine themselves and know themselves as single people before getting involved(dating)/married again. Jumping from one relationship to the next without any introspection.

So how, may I ask, is this any different for a BS?

Jo

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I dated way too soon and my first relationship got way too serious way too fast. When the idea dawned on me that I didn't have to marry the first guy that came along that was nice to me, I ended up really hurting a nice guy.

Then again, I started dating my current boyfriend way too soon as well, and we are at 18 months going on forever. I am inexplicably happy and we are not planning to get married or anything ... just enjoying the heck out of NOT being in the 'dating scene' and having someone to love and trust that doesn't hurt me.

Good questions - lots of different answers. I agree - you have got to know yourself as just you without someone else first. Really know what you want in life. Set your goals, your boundaries, get out and enjoy life. Then, IF someone comes along - YOU have the CHOICE to date them or not. You'll know if they are truly someone you can envision yourself spending quality time with - because YOU ARE HAPPY WITH JUST YOU!

I think healing time is different for everyone. I'm doing exceptionally well now. I've found myself - I love myself - I'm content with just ME!

Llama

Good question... I'll get back to this one as I'm right in the middle of this situation as we post.
I'm a little short on time at the moment, and my weekend is full.
But I would like to throw my .02 cents worth on this one.
Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

I'm going on month 9 of my separation from my wife (married 3 1/2 years prior). In fact, I will see her for the first time in over 3 months on Sunday. I'm excited and queasy at the same time... primarily because I have no idea what to say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> [But, I know my tongue will drop out of my mouth and I'll probably talk to her breasts at least *once* on accident. Is it normal for a guy to be trying to figure out what to wear two days in advance?]

Anyway, back to the subject, I dated 3 women in the span of 2 months so far during this separation, and then called it off about a month ago with each of them. The attention felt really great... I mean, after not getting that kind of attention from my wife for a long time, and then being alone for 6 months. I don't know where I read it, but somewhere I read something that perfectly described the epiphany that came over me and made me realize that I just am not (still) ready to date... even if I don't know if I want to reconcile my marriage for sure... heck, I don't even know if I could date my wife right now.

It happened like this for me. Each of the women had some aspect about them that I admired in my wife... but they weren't the whole package like she was. And in thinking about that, it's obvious I was comparing them to her... that's not fair in the least. In addition, there would always come a point (and this is what I read that sums everything up for me), sometime in a conversation, when I would look them in the eyes and I would think to myself, "You know, if my wife treated me as well as you do I'd be back with her in a second and you would be nothing but a beautiful memory."

So, there... I know I'm not going to be ready until I can appreciate a woman in her own right. Not to say I don't get lonely sometimes... but, for some reason, I feel a lot better about myself (both a self-esteem thing and just feeling more in control of myself) by staying on my own.

But hey, if miss perfect dropped out of the sky tomorrow and I could look at her and *not* think about my wife at all... then, well, who knows <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But I would *definately* take it a lot slower than the whirlwind I just extricated myself from.

Thanks everyone, I greatly appreciate your input and differing angles on my question. I am open to any informationa AT ALL in the future relationship aspect. First of all, I don't see myself dating for a while. I am not actively wishing that I had someone like I was in the past. I was wanting what I had for a while, but realistically, had very little of for the prior 10 years. So just the 4 months of interest by my wife, then nothing hit a little hard all at once. I then realized that it was all a farce anyway. At that point I didn't miss it anymore. Because I knew that although it meant something to me, it meant nothing to her.

I definitely take the advice of not dating anyone for 'experimentation'. I definitely don't want to fall for someone emotionally that is incompatable in other ways. That is what happened with my wife and even with Herculean effort, it fell apart. I have very high standards, and have only met two people that could even remotely come into the realm of someone that I could see in my future. haha They are both Doctors, but one is Islamic and the other is far too young. So neither is in my thoughts much, although if there was a conversion to Christianity in the future, wow is all I could say. But she is just my friend, and I have no designs on her. The other is great, but just too young to think about saddling her with a ready made family. And I wouldn't have any faith that I could keep her happy with our 8 year age difference.

I just was wondering what sort of things tend to happen when early relationships go bad. It looks like one of the top problems is 'too much of a good thing', ie too serious too fast.

I would just like to have a friend that I could take out to dinner safely for conversation and company. That is really what I want right now and in the forseeable future. I want someone to talk to. That is all. And I understand the problem about going too fast. That is absolutely not what I want. If God came down and said,' This is the one, go ahead and marry her.' Then I might think differently. But I just want to move into a different place in my life.

I don't compare anyone to my wife. haha, They would all look good. She is beautiful, but after the last year, I see that is all she is. There is nothing below the surface other than self absorption and blindness.

Lets keep hearing about things. I am definitely not a person who goes on artificial time frames as far as how long to wait. I might wait 6 months I might wait 6 years, but that will be for me and my emotions to decide. But I just want to know what the pitfalls others have found in relationships after divorce. I guess, any sort of pitfalls, not just being there too early. What about kids, blending, ex's etc. Anything that might help me in the future would be great.

Thanks

<small>[ November 22, 2002, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

GOSH, I AM READING THIS AND I DON'T KNOW. I WISH MY H WOULD FEEL THIS WAY FOR ME. THAT IS WHAT HURTS THE MOST IS THAT I FEAR THAT HE DOES NOT HAVE THESE SAME FEELINGS. I JUST WANT to be loved and feel that I am the only one he wants in his life. I don't feel that right now. He needs time he says to think things out weather he wants to be married anymore or not. For me as a woman it is like, either you love me or you don't. If you love me you would stick it out and try to solve our problems and not keep pushing them under the rug like we have for so long. We have 10 +years and 2 beautiful kids and you cannot just give in with out a fight, that is what he is doing right now, maybe it is just my opinion as a woman and guys don't think that way. I dont know I am I don't know what I am, I dont know where I stand, I love him so much that I have let him controll every aspect of my life. I dont know what I want, I dont know what my dreams are because he has consumed every part of me. God help me through this............ I don't know what to feel. Fear has always come accross as anger and He his not here to be angry at. He doesn;t want to deal with it and so he left...........and I am alone, ... and not sure of my future.......

cccccj

Cam,

Don't think it is just men that think that way. It is just stupid people, and there is no monopoly of idiocy by men. My wife sounds just like your husband. It is just the way society allows weak willed people to act. It is accepted and without consequence. The law doesn't recognize adultery as being immoral nor decrease the 'fitness' of the parent. So as far as children are concerned, the wayward spouse can do whatever they want, and it has nothing to do with the children. Therefore, there is no real need to stay together. There are so many people out there that are divorced now it is pitiful. That is what allowed my wife to feel that she needed to be divorced as well. Well, her 'friends' that were divorced were all physically abused, one in two different marriages.

You would think that to have a husband that loves you and did any and everything to keep your love going, would be a good thing. But some people are just so blinded by themselves that they cannot see.

No, it isn't just men, although you will hear more about men, because your friends will probably be women. Personally since this has happened to me, 3 of my co-workers have spoken up that this very thing happened to them. They are all men. One is going through it now, right along with me.

Keep your chin up.

Hello,

I wanted to join this conversation even though I am not in that stage yet. The question that hit me was - If you only date those that you might marry, How will you know who those people are WITHOUT experimentation?

I have been M 22 years and known WH 27 years so I have been away from dating for a LONG time!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Input on how do you know would be helpful thanks!!!

D.

I think that my way of answering that question WGTT is to have standards that are unerring in your convictions. What I mean is if you don't want to be around a smoker, then don't date someone that smokes, no matter how great they seem to be. Just be up front and let them know your basic plan/requirements and see what they think. Also, ask them what they need,and if not right for you, then let them know. Do it before you start seeing them if possible, ie email, phone, etc.. I am sure that some of the first things that I will let someone know is that I am a dad of two wonderful boys. If they don't want to deal with what that means, then there is no reason to continue the date or even start one. I will not change being a father for anyone. Therefor, if they don't want to be around kids, then I don't care how beautiful, daring, confident, etc. they are, they are not for me. I don't want to be with her, even though she may be wonderful in all respects, if she can't see the possiblity of being happy with my boys.

Now, I don't mean that they have to love my children from the first date. But if they know they don't want to be with a man who has children, then there is no reason to start. Also, I don't want someone that has been unfaithful. I just don't want that, no matter what. I know that people can change, but once across that threshold, it is just too easy to recross given trouble. I am not willing to put my family through that again. So that is a must not.

Also, just basic personality characteristics, and whether they could live on a ranch is important to me. I know that there is someone out there who can meet these goals and desires, therefor why saddle myself with a lovely lady that I can love deeply if she is a penthouse kind of person.

There is nothing wrong with these other people types, but I know what I want so much more now than I did, I am not willing to drop or change things beyond reason. I will not be steadfast, but there are certain things that I want out of life, and there are a few things I would like to have. There are things I would like to have, but would be willing to modify for someone that was truly loving and deserving. Actually, there wouldn't be much I am not willing to do for someone that loves me and that I love in return.

I guess, set your standards and values and do not ere, thinking that "I will change that" or "I will get used to that". That is at least what I am planning on. Who knows, I haven't dated since I was 20 and at that time, I didn't know that anything other than love was required. I loved, and it wasn't enough.

I somewhat agree with Formerly. "IF" I was looking to date, I certainly would not want someone who had previously cheated. In addition, I think you shouldn't date someone with the idea that you could change or mold them or their habits.

I'm with you on the ranch thing, too. They'd have to love animals, especially horses. I plan to have a log home one day placed on the ranch of my dreams, with an english barn full of horses.

I just can't imagine there is anyone out there that would be all the things I would want in a spouse. I hate to say this, but I just may be too particular, with set expectations.

I feel I've been through some pretty bad stuff, and I deserve my dreams now, and don't want to settle. Is that selfish?

Jo

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WillGetThruThis:
<strong> The question that hit me was - If you only date those that you might marry, How will you know who those people are WITHOUT experimentation?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a VERY good question!

Maybe the reason that so many "too soon after divorce" relationships fail is that the divorcee is looking to fill the "job" previously performed by their spouse.

In my case, I was just looking for someone to provide the attention that I had been getting in my marriage, and I wasn't terribly critical about who gave me the attention! Like others here, I was looking to fill a void in my life-a hole that had been left when my XW bailed on our marriage.

I figured that it was better for me to fill that void on my own, and become a "whole" person before dating again.

When I did start dating again (about 6 months ago), I deliberately avoided looking for my "next wife," for a couple of reasons...

For one thing, that is what led me to my last marriage! I was always looking for my "soul-mate" when dating. If a relationship didn't look like it was "the one," I would end it abruptly. When I started dating my XW, I made a decision very early on that she was the "one." I stopped looking at other women, and never considered dating anyone else. Just 9 months after we started dating, I had decided that I would "spend the rest of my life" with her, and I never gave it a second thought.

Boy, was I wrong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

For another thing, I think dating only people you might want to marry is "putting the cart before the horse," so to speak. I don't want to analyze every woman I go out with, pass judgement on their worthiness as a potential spouse, and then base any future interactions with her on that pre-judgement. There are a couple of women that I regret not "hanging in there" with, because I realized much later on that I had misjudged them.

So now I'm dating someone who is really wonderful. It has only been a month or so, but things are looking great. I'm pretty infatuated with her, and I think she feels the same way. Are we right for each other? Maybe, maybe not. Would I eventually want to marry her? It is too soon to tell. Based on the situation, I would say there is probably no future for us. Should I stop seeing her because of this? Of course not...she's a wonderful person and I love spending time with her. If it works out, then that'll be great. If not, well, then that's okay too.

Mmmm...now that I think of it, maybe the problem is expectations. If you go into a relationship expecting something (like another marriage, a new soul-mate, etc.), you might be setting yourself up for a disappointment when that expectation is not met.

Just a thought...

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: cjack ]</small>