Why is it that even when going through DV you find yourself still wondering? Still thinking about not letting go?

This is despite many attempts at reconciliation that failed, many arguments and painful discussions and insurmountable odds stacked in against you both recovering. When neither partner has any energy left or enthusiasm to rebuild.

Its like I keep sticking my head over the parapet to see if the army is gone and I always get whacked in the face. It is for some reason stopping me from moving on.

Any advice? My MC says I am stuck in a cycle of wanting to protect my partner even though she has walked and moved on with OM2.

I dont conciously feel that way that I am aware of. It may be that there has been so much difficulty in such a short space of time compared to most of you and the Xmas period is ramping it up in intensity.

I had another bad mediation experience via letter yesterday which again makes me feel like a villain rather than a BS. I am thinking that right now despite several weeks of feeling strong I am so emotionally drained and low that this is the case.

Has anyone else experienced this type of issue moving thru DV?

Best Wishes Neil.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: Porsche 911 996C2 ]</small>

You cared about this person for so long and it's not a feeling you can turn off. It sounds like you see her as "sick" from her childhood experiences and your protection instinct remains.
Right now, take care of yourself and your children, and get counseling for you and them.

My children love the Rainbows classes and I highly recommend this. Its a support group for children of divorce or death, and it focuses on the children and their feelings, and gives them a venue to talk about it.

Neil,

I think what you're feeling is very normal. My DV from WS should be final by the end of the year. I'm the one who wanted the DV, but it doesn't mean I don't feel the longing and sadness for what could have been if WH had remained faithful. I believe it's a part of the grieving process that you need to go through. Your WW has forced this issue of DV on you by being with OM so of course you're going to have these feelings.

Be true to yourself and don't try to be superman... it's okay to nurse your wounds, but don't take too long... life is too short!

Good luck to you, Neil!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Neil

I wanted to pop over and see how you were doing after my own rather looooooong weekend.

I am sorry you are down and having a problem letting go. I think both Newly and Free have it right - you have loved someone, and tried to nurse them through thick and thin and then 2 OM's. Do you still love your W, the mother of your children, if things could only be different? Of course, so many questions, so many ifs and buts. You took the DV course of action after much heartache, soul searching and councilling. You know the answers to the things that would have to change for you and your W to hvae a future, and you can't make her do those things, only she can.

You know what my H said to me, "Christmas just gets in the way of emotions. I have seen too many people do too many silly things just because it is Christmas". He's right. I didn't want him to go particularly because "It's just before Christmas". Our society rams it down your throat and it's not about Christ or religion, it's about having a good time, spending money etc, and when you're suffering with real issues, it just seems pathetic doesn't it?

Remember the daily mantra - it will get better. Keep trying to look after you and the girls.

Wishing you well from very very cold North London.

Lisa

P.S. My Mum's got snow!!

How long have you been in this process????I would like to know how fast this has gone for you...Mine is a record breaker....

Chrisitne

Thanks all, yes its all been so hurtful, even tonight putting D to bed in tears because she wants her Mum home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> yet there is no coming home, the things I need are just not done nor even entertained. I doubt she even heard what they were, all the while I plod on day to day believing that at the end of it all it will be better.

I tell you the idea of bringing up these 3 girls alone scares me some times.

fooltoolong the DV has been going about a month and a half from a separation that has run three months so far.

Neil.

Porsche,

I understand completely. The pain of letting go is almost insurmountable. And not only that, but the guilt of feeling that 'you can see, but she can't YET' makes it feel as though you are the only responsible one of the two of you. I understand completely. My wife has continually attacked me over and over again, and yet, I still feel responsible for her. I don't know why. I guess that it is because she is someone that I cared so deeply for. Someone that 6 months ago I would have laid down my life for in an instant, and that was after knowing about her repeated infidelity. I loved her completely and unconditionally. That is all. Now as time passes and continued attacks and realizations occur, I understand more and more that my feelings for her matter not one bit to her.

She claims to respect and care for me, but she has shown the most disrespect for me by returning to an affair then wanting a divorce. She simply acts, to me, insane. She said before when she wanted to come back in February, "Please, don't let our marriage end because of my insanity." She was speaking about her inability to see that holding another man in her heart caused her to act and react differently to situations in our life together. She seemed to finally understand, but that faded very quickly. She once again began loosing her 'grip' on reality and fell back into her adultery then wanted out.

I understand, because this does seem once again like insanity. But try as I might, she will not let me help her back to her family. She refuses to go to counseling, under the auspices of no money. Even though I have told her over and over again that I would pay for whoever, whenever. I said don't do it for me or even us, but do it for you and the boys. I think she is afraid of what she will find out about herself. I think that in her heart she is sorry about all this. I hope that she wishes it had not happened, but she has never said that to me at all.

It seems that I can see so much more about how she is killing her life and in the process destroying our family. But she is whole head into going through with it, and now I am ambivelant. I once was adamantly opposed, but you know what. I realized that I am not a choice. Our family is not a choice. Our children are not a choice. She feels that she has the choice, but it is an obligation in my opinion. When we married, we became obligated to each other in front of man, our families, and God. She does not feel the same, and that is OK. If she feels that being responsible for her family is less important that her own carnal pleasure, then that is a good thing for me to know and understand right now. I don't want to live a life of lies any longer. I have changed in every way that I can, and she has decided that it is not enough. That is OK.

I have made a huge step in letting go this weekend. I realized right in the middle of a 12 hour day, that I had already lost everything that I am ever going to loose from this. I will not loose anything else, so everything from here on out is building a new life with my boys. There is no longer any tearing down of an old life. Straining to hold onto strands of memories with her and our family. I have embarked on my new life and I plan on making it a great one. I will make the best of every moment with my children. I will make the best of every moment with myself.

Understanding that I have already lost everything that I will loose with this divorce was a truly enlightening experience. And it was all due to a phone call with a friend. That is all, but that is everything.

I don't have any words of wisdom for letting go. I know exactly how you feel, and the example of the castle wall is EXACTLY how I have felt for so long. I kept opening the door only to have it slammed in my face. But I think finally the hinges broke, and I have no more desire to open the door anymore.

I think that another reason that I felt so concerned about her was that I wanted and felt responsible to my children to 'put us back together' regardless of the price. I actually would still prefer to have our family intact, obviously, however, I have realized that it is not ONLY my responsibility, and after having killed myself over and over again. After having debased myself and done everything in my power and then some, that no matter what, I still cannot make her do anything, nor even desire to try.

I felt that since I was 'sane' and she obviously was not, that my boys were relying on me to make things right. Well, I think that now I have finally realized that 'right' may not be with her. I think that right may be with a woman that can show committment and love unconditionally. That right may be having someone else as a rolemodel for a wife. She can be their rolemodel for their mother. But maybe I can find someone worthy of showing my children how to be a great husband to a great wife. That is my responsibility now. I must show my boys that they don't have to make the mistakes that their mother and I did. That they can choose their way better than we did. That they can take the road of strength rather than self indulgence.

With these thoughts, I have found the ability to let go easier and easier. I have refound a purpose in my life. Where once my purpose was to get through my education so that we could live the good life as a family. I now have replaced that thought with living my life now, and making it good. Not waiting for tomorrow, which we did so many years.

I feel sad for my wife. She did work for a good life together in the beginning. She just gave up on it at the end, and refused to come back and work at it. She chose to leave our family for her own gain. Now I am not sure whether she has gained anything at all. But she continues to choose this path, and I will not try to change it any longer. It is no longer my priority. Building my new life with my boys is my priority. This thought is what has allowed me to let go.

Take care. Use what you find in this for yourself. I was not trying to talk about myself as much as I was trying to explain how I am finding my way in letting go.

We are here for you.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

So much of this thread has really spoken to me. I also am in the process of letting go after holding on for much too long. For nearly 16 months I have been trapped in a terrible dance with WH. I see now that he has always been in one of three states -- with me AND OW, with OW trying to get me back, or with me trying to get OW back. Each time he has been with OW trying to get me back (as he is now) I have been lured into the dance, hoping "this time" would be the real thing.

For awhile I think I participated for legitimate reasons -- love for WH, desire to salvage M for our children, etc. But I must admit that for at least the past 10 months, I have been doing the dance out of fear, not love. For me part of letting go has been the realization that I was holding on because I feared losing WH would mean losing myself. For 19 years I have defined myself by my relationship with WH. And when WH would beg to come back, it reaffirmed who I believed myself to be. Staying in a disfunctional, miserable relationship with WH seemed safer than facing the unknown.

Like other posters I think I also took far too much responsibilty for the actions of my WH and the state of our marriage. I think I've done this because believing I was responsible gave me the illusion I could control the outcome. If I could just be nice enough, or kind enough or generous enough, WH would become a faithful, loving husband. But I'm beginning to see that changing the events and the people in my life is not the answer. I am myself, with WH or without him and I need to look for happiness and satisfaction in that.

Growth comes from stepping outside the carefully crafted image you create to tell yourself who you are. The trick, I think, is letting go of that false image without desperately trying to invent a new one (ie a new relationship, or job or whatever) and quietly being yourself. At this point I have no idea who that "self" really is and I'm trying to be okay with that. It is so frightening, but you only let go when you have no other option.

Thank you letting me add my 2 cents worth of psychobabble here. It is such a struggle to avoid falling into the same patterns again and again.

M 15 yrs; children 4,6,8
d-day 8-01; WH moves out 1-02, mutilple reconciliation attempts; FINALLY trying to move on

Thanks all it seems this is common which is pleasing yet sad by the same token.

Nevertheless its a path to be trodden. Tomorrow sees the affadavit sworn which will mean that the DV will be done pretty quick thereafter.

I never believed entering this year faced with my WW's A that I would be ending it in DV. What a truly dreadful time.

Still not now but later it will get better.

Formerly Confused if I was to put pen to paper your note would have been exactly what I would write. It hit my circumstances spot on.

Ever onward Neil.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Porsche 911 996C2:
<strong>Why is it that even when going through DV you find yourself still wondering? Still thinking about not letting go?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have never liked that phrase "letting go". I never figured out just what it is we're supposed to let go of.

Yeah, OK, we need to let go of the idea that we are dependent upon our spouses for our own personal happiness, and we need to let go of the idea that we can somehow control our spouses or fix their problems, and (as WiW said) we need to let go of the idea that we are defined by our relationships with our spouses, but...these are all attitudes, not feelings, and I think it is dangerous to try to manipulate our feelings by trying to "let go" of them ahead of their natural evolution.

How do you let go of love? By cultivating hatred? How do you let go of sorrow? By disfiguring your memories?

I am also wary of "letting go" of certain attitudes. My (ex-)wife hasn't spoken a word to me in over two-and-a-half years. She has defrauded and defamed me. And yet I freely admit that I still want to protect her, and in fact I pray every day for her protection. That's not an attitude I am willing to change. I know that I can do nothing for her except to pray, and I accept that fact. But I believe that "letting go" of my love, or my faith, or my hope, would be more destructive to me than the pain and sorrow I continue to bear because of my stand.

Wow. This post describes in writing many of the thoughts plaguing me for the past two weeks. I think I have spent a good portion of my adult life worrying about my WH and part of me cannot fathom shifting to something different -- that something different being not worrying about him.

During this plan B I have let go of some of my worry about him, but it has also paralyzed me in terms of my being able to see what I need as opposed to what I think my WH needs to recover from his depression and his insane actions, lying, paranoia, etc. during his A. Maybe this is who he is and what he wants. Why do I want to be a part of an increasingly toxic relationship and toxic behavior? Is it because I don't know any different and have been in this cycle since I was a child (my mother is manic-depressive and my childhood was far from normal)? Can I not let go of needing to try and help because it has defined me for so long?

If I were to be able to extract myself from my body and observe my life the past two years would I be able to see more clearly that my WH has rarely cared about me or what I need? Would I be able to see how crazy I might be to try and wait out this A when my WH is not willing to get help for any of his other problems and at the same time blamed me for all the ills in his life? What kind of marriage is that?

My M had many good times and I know that, but the depression and not acknowledging the depression and how that effects all of WH's relationships has been there from the beginning. My denial of how serious it was and how adverse I was to forcing the issue and acknowledging my own short-comings are just as much to blame for slow erosion the connection in my M, but I do not deserve what it has become.

Until today, I really did not want to think about a divorce. Every day it becomes slightly more clear that without help, my WH will always treat me like this. It will always be an up and down. I will always hold something back out of fear. I just need to now figure out fear of what.

Sorry to intrude on your thread Neil/Porsche -- this post seemed to describe so much of what I am feeling.

I really empathize with everyone on this post. My WH is an addict/alcoholic who was clean and sober for almost half our relationship. I've always worried about him and wanted to help and support him through his problems. I too, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> took far too much responsibility for the actions of my WH and the state of our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still worry about him, even though I haven't had any contact with him in about 7 months.

I relate to WiW about the three states, I lived them too. And I understand defining myself by my relationship and hanging on out of fear.

This is all really good stuff. I also find that the move through Divorce brings its own types of closure.

Each step of the way leads you to a certain extent forward into the reality of "letting go" whether that is a feeling or an attitude.

I personally believe in letting go the feelings as I think that is the only way to proper closure and certainly in my case that is proving hard to do. The mind says "done" the heart says "try and hold". In my case and for my girls most importantly I have to listen to my Head.

Yesterday I completed my Sworn Affadavit which once submitted to the court here in the UK releases whats called the Decree Nissi (sp?). Then 6 weeks 1 day later the Decree Absolute and therefore my Marriage is finished. It should be sometime during Feb 2003. I personally will be glad to see the back of this year and am now focussing on my kids, Xmas, 2003 and LOTR: The Two Towers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Whilst worrying about the WS is a valid point I also believe that is something that you have to give up, in my case (albeit somewhat extreme) this has meant trying not to worrying about potential suicide. That is very hard, but ultimately I have to assume and focus that this is the right steps for myself, my children and in time my wife (which is something coffeeman was strong to state as per his own story). Continuing to worry about the WS surely delays closure of sorts and prolongs the situation ?

Neil.

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Porsche 911 996C2 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The Two Towers
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> worrying about potential death through suicide. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I would watch what you say, Neil.

Sorry dred, edited for clarity. Didn't mean to infer anything.

Getting thru the next Lord of the Rings movie is a hurdle for me because it was opening day of the first film last year that was my D-Day #1 and I foolishly couldn't understand why she seemed so distant and upset.

Now I go see the 2nd film with my girls and without her. Sometimes "letting go" also has to be achieved by going thru things and getting out the other side rather than just trying to forget.

Neil.

Hi, I was reading your posts here, and the responses, and so many hit home...your last post about the movie trigger meant alot to me. Tonight I went to the Star Trek movie premiere without my WH. Mind you I am a true blue Trekkie and for all of our marriage, the Trek movies have been a big night out, courtesy of my loving husband. During our reconciliation period, he had even mentioned how he was looking forward to taking me and seeing the movie...like so much else, it never came true.
But I did go to see it tonight, the very first showing, went with my daughter and her husband. And I made it through...didn't break down once and only had tears in my eyes towards the end. Silly as it may seem, it was a milestone for me.
I'm still in the early D stages, still trying to process, standing strong but fighting the urge to make a fool of myself and ask him to please, please reconsider, does he REALLY want this. Even after all he's done, I love this man and want to see him well, whole and the man I married again. Daily I tell myself this will not be happening, mainly because he does NOT want it to. At this point, we barely communicate and he avoids me at all costs.
So I well understand the significance of the movie you spoke of. Please go to it with your girls and enjoy it. Make it a milestone for you.
I will be cheering you on!! Take care.

We qre booked to see it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> now on the 23rd well away from the original trigger date of the 18th. I am going to keep busy that day for sure.

All my girls hae been sick to varying degrees this week and I am sooo tired ready for work tomorrow !

Ever onward. Neil.

Today was a very hard day for me. I just seem to be struggling all the time, at one point I wanted her to come home and told her that, anyway I got the usual pain of how I had hurt her and how all my writings on the Marriage Wreckers website hurt her and how I wasnt there and so on. It was really hurtful. I keep doing it to myself of course, just seem to stick the head above the parapet and whammo off it gets chopped.

Of course I am struggling. Who wanted this year? Not me that's for sure, nor my girls. My MC was good, helped show me the situation as it, brings a level of down to earth reality to the situation. My head is not ruling my heart right now, and that's clear in the way I keep crumbling and crying all the time despite being strong in front of the kids.

The girls tears seem to have increased as well it's like theres not one day at the moment without one or more crying about us "breaking up". Tonight was the middle daughter told "not to tell Daddy about the date with OM3 tonight", how could she possibly keep a secret from me when she is so young and hurt? Neil.

Porsche,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes "letting go" also has to be achieved by going thru things and getting out the other side rather than just trying to forget. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes! The only way out is through. This is a slow, painful process and it takes as long as it takes.

Whilst I try and entertain a semblanc of trying to be nice each time I do I get more and more hurt. I am trying to go back to my no contact as advised by Steve H and the UK MC. Not easy though when you are on your own with three kids.

Neil.