This has been a weird, sad, confusing couple of days. It’s so disturbing and puzzling that I constantly feel off balance, and it has been a darn ROLLERCOASTER RIDE. Eventually I get my feet back under me, and I feel as if my eyes are being more and more opened to his true character—but that feeling of being bowled over and motion sick is horrible. My H is out of the house, and we are still physically separated, but I think he is still trying to control the situation and make the decisions…and BOY he is trying every trick in the book.

On Tuesday, he lost his mind and was just raging and abusive and horrible because he received my official Plan B letter. He said he WOULD NOT tolerate a Plan B. Of course, he thinks that "raging" is SCREAMING AT A HIGH VOLUME, and since he was only calling me names and hanging up on me and blaming and threatening and such, he wasn’t abusive and *I* deserved what I got!! He threatened me with calling the police if I called him anymore—and he has called the police before for no reason, but the police SCARE me and he knows this and he uses it against me! . I just tell the truth and all, but I don’t want trouble, ya know?? During the course of that conversation, he kept hanging up on me and for several times, I called him back until I realized I was just playing HIS game—that’s when he threatened to call the police, so I stopped calling. Then he called me back 15 times!!! FIFTEEN—but *I* was harassing HIM. Yeah right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He also threatened to just "disappear" and dump everything on me. Once again, a scare tactic because he knows that I am afraid of being dumped and abandoned. But he wasn’t abusive, was he?? Eventually, I got so frightened by his threats and he was so clearly "out of his right mind" that I stopped talking to him and changed the locks. I was AFRAID of what he would do or what he would try to do!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

The next day, Wednesday, he acted like nothing happened and everything was okay. I don’t get it!!! My H invited me to a preview of the movie "Catch Me If You Can" and I REALLY debated if I should go or not—after all, it seems that every interaction with him just hurts me! However, in the end I went because I wanted to see the movie!!! It was a LONG movie (but totally great—spend the money and GO SEE IT!!), and when it got done I had to RACE to my daughter’s school to have lunch with her. Throughout the whole movie, though, he didn’t even address the day before—just ignored it as usual. After all, "If you ignore it, it will go away."

On Thursday, I was on the Rape Crisis hotline, and I got to pick up my S early. The day went okay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Friday was my D’s Holiday Festival at school, and she was going to play her instrument in the band so I was REALLY looking forward to going. Well, earlier in the day, he was grouchy to me and pissed off because of something so silly and insignificant that I honestly forget what it was now. But I DO remember that he spoke to me very disrespectfully and angrily and impolitely—and I called him on it. When it came time to go to the festival, my S and his girlfriend didn’t want to go, so I let them stay home for about an hour while we went to the event. Well, my H had a FIT about that! He said, "We DISCUSSED this and you are purposely disrespecting my opinion!!" Well for heaven’s sake! I wasn’t very comfortable with leaving them alone either, so if we HAD discussed it, I would not have disagreed with him! And yet, boy I can guarantee you that I would NEVER just ignore his wishes and blow him off, just because the usual "punish" for doing so is…well…a punishment! Yelling, belittling, threats…why in the WORLD would I purposely do that??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

See, this opened my eyes quite a bit to HIS personality. I would not even WANT to intentionally ignore someone just to get back at them, and yet I think he does. And since HE does, I think he is paranoid thinking that other people do or try to do that to him! Lord, I have NO DESIRE to be that revengeful and spiteful. Furthermore, I think this is VERY indicative of our relationship. I have no doubt whatsoever that he THOUGHT IN HIS HEAD about the situation and about what he wanted to say to me…but I swear that he never actually spoke to me out loud. I SWEAR!! But he thinks he did and he blames me for not knowing what he THOUGHT!! AARRGGHH.

Saturday was kind of a good day. I slept in, and I was SO grateful to be able to get some rest—I slept until 11am! What indulgence!! Then the kids and I woke up and worked on our weekend chores…you know, vacuuming and washing towels and cleaning windows…that kind of thing! Anyway, completed our chores and then both of the kids had their friends come over: my D’s best friend and my S’s girlfriend. We all packed into the car and I drove the kids to the mall to "hang out" and watch a movie. While they were out, H took me out to casual dinner—then we picked up the kids—then we watched "Goldmember." It went well and I had a nice evening together. What’s up with that?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Then, today, he flipped out again. I had the overnight shift for the Rape Crisis hotline, and I had a call that lasted until 3am, so I thought I would sleep until 10am to at least get 7 hours. So the alarm went off at 10am…and 10:15…and 10:30 (heehee) and then HE called. Well, it started off as a conversation about "I really love you honey and I hope this is just for the short term—how long do you think we’ll be separated?" and I made the mistake of telling him the truth! I told him that it was up to HIM how long it took because if he worked on himself every day and made it a TOP priority, it would go a lot faster than if he worked on himself once a week—but that no matter how fast he chose to work on things, that I would not take him back until the changes were actually DONE…because he had promised before and not followed through. To this, he said, "Well, I just can’t work on it every day. I’m not you. You just want me to do it YOUR way and do your marriage group and your counseling and your pace!" THEN…he told me what he wants to talk to his counselor about when he has his appointment. He listed off several things along the lines of "I am just aggressive and animated and passionate when I talk to you and any time you don’t like what I’m saying, you just play the ABUSE card. I think I have the RIGHT to be aggressive and animated and passionate. I think you’re just shoving your way down my throat and trying to turn me into YOU." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Well, geez! First, he can be any way that he CHOOSES to be…it is not my place to tell him how to be! However, if he wants to be in a relationship with me, he has to be gentle and kind and respectful. I’ve already been "sushi-ed" for 15 years in this relationship and I’m just do not tolerate "aggressive, animated, passionate" very well! Period! Anyway, I mentioned to him that his comments sounded very "blaming" to me and (see if you can guess)—he just LAUNCHED OFF on me! I’m WAY too sensitive and I’m escalating and I’m verbally abusive to HIM and … apparently I’m the cause of all his problems! Haha. Oh brother. Well, I finally told him to either de-escalate or I was going to hang up the phone. No response to my statement…it just continued. Then I said, "You have a choice. Would you rather be right or married? You have until I count to three to de-escalate or I will hang up on three and you will lose your wife and family. Which do you pick? 1 - 2 - 3." I hung up. Shortly thereafter, he called back and said this was stupid but I should ask him anymore questions or try to have relationship talks or do anything other than business/schedule talk until he can see his counselors.

Soooo…as usual, in his little world, I’m supposed to just sit around and wait and be supportive while he works on himself and "figures out a few things." It will clearly take SEVERAL months, if not YEARS…but I’m supposed to just sit here at home and raise the kids by myself until he realizes the harm he’s done and works on himself?? BALONEY!!! My life has been on "hold" for YEARS now…waiting for him to pull his head out of his butt. And, hello, but where’s the partner who’s supposed to help me with MY issues?? Where’s the partner who’s supposed to help me raise the kids and financially support the family?? When do I ever get to have the thrill of an affair? Do I ever get to just blow off all of MY responsibilities and "figure out a few things" AND have him just sit around and take it?? HECK NO!!! Then, in what twisted world is it right that I should just let him be on a rampage, trample all over my heart and my feelings, abandon the kids and I and leave all the responsibilities to me, and then just let him back with open arms when he "figures things out." NO!! NO-NO-NO-NO-NO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Up, down, up, down, up, down. I need to grab hold and take control of my own ride!!

CJ

Hi FaithfulW! It was with sadness I read your latest Post. My heart goes out to you. If this does not offend you, I will post a few of my 'RemarkZ' in CAPS (not 'screaming' but just don't know how to cut&paste on replies), OK? Harold </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>This has been a weird, sad, confusing couple of days. It’s so disturbing and puzzling that I constantly feel off balance, and it has been a darn ROLLERCOASTER RIDE. Eventually I get my feet back under me, and I feel as if my eyes are being more and more opened to his true character—but that feeling of being bowled over and motion sick is horrible. My H is out of the house, and we are still physically separated, but I think he is still trying to control the situation and make the decisions…and BOY he is trying every trick in the book.

On Tuesday, he lost his mind and was just raging and abusive and horrible because he received my official Plan B letter. LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE A CRYBABY HERE - 'OOOH I CAN'T GET MY WAY SO IF I THROW A LITTLE-BABY TEMPER TANTRUM MAYBE I'LL GET WHAT I WANT' He said he WOULD NOT tolerate a Plan B. Of course, he thinks that "raging" is SCREAMING AT A HIGH VOLUME, and since he was only calling me names and hanging up on me and blaming and threatening and such, he wasn’t abusive and *I* deserved what I got!! EXCUSE ME? TALK ABOUT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK! I LOOKED UP WIFE-ABUSER IN THE DICTIONAIRY AND HIS PIC WAS RIGHT NEXT TO IT... He threatened me with calling the police if I called him anymore—and he has called the police before for no reason, but the police SCARE me and he knows this and he uses it against me! CAN YOU SAY MANIPULATION?? I just tell the truth and all, but I don’t want trouble, ya know?? During the course of that conversation, he kept hanging up on me and for several times, I called him back until I realized I was just playing HIS game—that’s when he threatened to call the police, so I stopped calling. Then he called me back 15 times!!! FIFTEEN—but *I* was harassing HIM. HERE HE'S PLAYING THE 'DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO' GAME: AND HE'S THE ONLY PLAYA HERE BECAUSE HE'S A LEGEND IN HIS OWN MIND SO THEREFORE HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS... Yeah right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He also threatened to just "disappear" and dump everything on me. Once again, a scare tactic because he knows that I am afraid of being dumped and abandoned. FAITHFUL, WE WILL NOT ABANDON YOU HERE ON MB: YOU HAVE LOTS OF FRIENDZ HERE AND THE LORD IS ON YOUR SIDE ALSO. But he wasn’t abusive, was he?? D*MN STRAIGHT HE WAS ABUSIVE AND IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD!! Eventually, I got so frightened by his threats and he was so clearly "out of his right mind" that I stopped talking to him and changed the locks. AN EXCELLENT MOVE ON YOUR PART! YOU ARE ONLY PROTECTING YOUSELF AND YOUR CHILDREN. I was AFRAID of what he would do or what he would try to do!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

The next day, Wednesday, he acted like nothing happened and everything was okay. I don’t get it!!! SOUNDS LIKE A MAJOR 'MOOD SWING' TO ME. IS YOUR HUBBY BIPOLAR? HE DEFINITELY NEEDS SOME SERIOUS COUNSELING - MARRIAGE AND PSYCHOLOGICAL! My H invited me to a preview of the movie "Catch Me If You Can" and I REALLY debated if I should go or not—after all, it seems that every interaction with him just hurts me! However, in the end I went because I wanted to see the movie!!! It was a LONG movie (but totally great—spend the money and GO SEE IT!!), and when it got done I had to RACE to my daughter’s school to have lunch with her. Throughout the whole movie, though, he didn’t even address the day before—just ignored it as usual. After all, "If you ignore it, it will go away." IT'S ALL JUST ANOTHER PART OF HIS 'GAME' HE PLAYS WITH YOU, AS HE CREATES HIS OWN REALITY ON A DAILY/HOURLY BASIS.

On Thursday, I was on the Rape Crisis hotline, and I got to pick up my S early. The day went okay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Friday was my D’s Holiday Festival at school, and she was going to play her instrument in the band so I was REALLY looking forward to going. Well, earlier in the day, he was grouchy to me and pissed off because of something so silly and insignificant that I honestly forget what it was now. STRAIN AT A GNAT AND SWALLOW A CAMEL - JESUS TALKED ABOUT THIS IN THE BOOK OF MATTHEW WHEN HE WAS DESCRIBING THE HYPOCRITE PHARISEES WHO ALSO WERE A LEGEND IN THEIR OWN MIND. But I DO remember that he spoke to me very disrespectfully and angrily and impolitely—and I called him on it. GOOD FOR YOU! STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. When it came time to go to the festival, my S and his girlfriend didn’t want to go, so I let them stay home for about an hour while we went to the event. Well, my H had a FIT about that! He said, "We DISCUSSED this and you are purposely disrespecting my opinion!!" EXCUSE ME? WE DISCUSSED IT? CAN YOU CALL IT A DISCUSSION WHEN ONE PERSON (ME) IS TALKING IN A NORMAL TONE OF VOICE WHILE THE OTHER PERSON (YOU) IS SCREAMING AND YELLING AT THE TOP OF HIS LUNGS? I DON'T THINK SO! AND WHILE WE'RE ON THIS SUBJECT, DEAR HUSBAND, THE NEXT TIME YOU DECIDE TO HAVE ANOTHER 'DISCUSSION' LIKE THIS - WELL FORGET IT! I'M HANGING UP ON YOUR A$S BECAUSE I AM A HUMAN BEING WHO DOES NOT DESERVE TO BE SCREAMED AT, THANK YOU!! Well for heaven’s sake! I wasn’t very comfortable with leaving them alone either, so if we HAD discussed it, I would not have disagreed with him! And yet, boy I can guarantee you that I would NEVER just ignore his wishes and blow him off, just because the usual "punish" for doing so is…well…a punishment! WHAT GIVES HIM THE RIGHT TO 'PUNISH YOU'? YOU ARE HIS WIFE AND NOT HIS CHILD! Yelling, belittling, threats…why in the WORLD would I purposely do that??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

See, this opened my eyes quite a bit to HIS personality. I would not even WANT to intentionally ignore someone just to get back at them, and yet I think he does. YOU SURE GOT THAT RIGHT - IT'S THE WAY HE PLAYS HIS STOOPIT GAME WITH YOU. And since HE does, I think he is paranoid thinking that other people do or try to do that to him! THIS CAT DEFINITELY HAS A SERIOUS MENTAL PROBLEM. Lord, I have NO DESIRE to be that revengeful and spiteful. YOU ARE TAKING THE HIGH ROAD HERE WITH THE RIGHT ATTITUDE ON YOUR PART. Furthermore, I think this is VERY indicative of our relationship. I have no doubt whatsoever that he THOUGHT IN HIS HEAD about the situation and about what he wanted to say to me…but I swear that he never actually spoke to me out loud. I SWEAR!! CHEEZ, NOW HE THINKS YOU'RE A MIND READER??! PULLEASE, GIVE ME A BREAK! But he thinks he did and he blames me for not knowing what he THOUGHT!! AARRGGHH.

Saturday was kind of a good day. I slept in, and I was SO grateful to be able to get some rest—I slept until 11am! What indulgence!! GOOD FOR YOU! A WELL-DESERVED REST FOR THE WEARY. Then the kids and I woke up and worked on our weekend chores…you know, vacuuming and washing towels and cleaning windows…that kind of thing! Anyway, completed our chores and then both of the kids had their friends come over: my D’s best friend and my S’s girlfriend. We all packed into the car and I drove the kids to the mall to "hang out" and watch a movie. While they were out, H took me out to casual dinner—then we picked up the kids—then we watched "Goldmember." It went well and I had a nice evening together. What’s up with that?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> YOUR HUSBAND IS MOST DEFINITELY SOUNDING MORE AND MORE BI-POLAR EACH DAY HERE. I'M BIPOLAR AND I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT HERE, FAITHFUL. MOOD SWINGS ARE A NORMAL PART OF MY DAY, ALTHOUGH DEFINITELY NOT TO THE EXTENT YOUR HUSBAND'S ARE!

Then, today, he flipped out again. CAN YOU SAY MOOD SWINGS!? I had the overnight shift for the Rape Crisis hotline, and I had a call that lasted until 3am, so I thought I would sleep until 10am to at least get 7 hours. So the alarm went off at 10am…and 10:15…and 10:30 (heehee) and then HE called. Well, it started off as a conversation about "I really love you honey and I hope this is just for the short term—how long do you think we’ll be separated?" **THE CHILD HERE WHO HAS JUST HAD HIS TOYS TAKEN AWAY AND SO HE'S WHINING WHEN CAN HE GET THEM BACK - THERE IS NO SINCERITY HERE FROM HIM - IT'S ANOTHER MANIPULATIVE PLOY TO GET WHAT HE WANTS! and I made the mistake of telling him the truth! NO YOU DIDN'T MAKE A MISTAKE, YOU ARE BEING RADICALLY HONEST WITH HIM AND YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. IF YOU HAVE TO LIE TO SOMEBODY TO KEEP THEM IN A GOOD MOOD, THEN SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG WITH THEM. I told him that it was up to HIM how long it took because if he worked on himself every day and made it a TOP priority, it would go a lot faster than if he worked on himself once a week—but that no matter how fast he chose to work on things, that I would not take him back until the changes were actually DONE…because he had promised before and not followed through. YOU GO, GIRL! STAND UP FOR YOURSELF. To this, he said, "Well, I just can’t work on it every day. I’m not you. You just want me to do it YOUR way and do your marriage group and your counseling and your pace!" **HERE HE'S GOING BACK ON THE ATTACK BY MAKING COMPLETELY NONSENSICAL ACCUSATORY STATMENTS TO YOU BECAUSE HE KNOWS DEEP INSIDE HE'S WRONG AND HE WANTS TO TWIST THE BALANCE OF 'POWER' BACK TO HIS SIDE AND KEEP YOU OFF BALANCE SO HE CAN CONTINUE TO MANIPULATE YOU.** THEN…he told me what he wants to talk to his counselor about when he has his appointment. He listed off several things along the lines of "I am just aggressive and animated and passionate when I talk to you and any time you don’t like what I’m saying, you just play the ABUSE card. DUDE, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT ABUSE IS SO DON'T PLAY THAT CRAP WITH ME. ABUSE CARD? HA! DEAR HUSBAND, YOU HAVE BOUGHT YOURSELF A FRICKING DECK OF NOTHING BUT ABUSE CARDS AND YOU PLAY THEM EVERY TIME WE TALK SO GET OFF MY CASE ABOUT ME 'PLAYING AN ABUSE CARD', THANK YOU! I think I have the RIGHT to be aggressive and animated and passionate. I think you’re just shoving your way down my throat and trying to turn me into YOU." HERE'S THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK AGAIN. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Well, geez! First, he can be any way that he CHOOSES to be…it is not my place to tell him how to be! THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S ON A POWER TRIP AND HE WANTS TO CALL ALL THE SHOTS AND HAVE EVERYBODY JUST FALL INTO LINE WITH HIS WAY OF THINKING AND DOING THINGS. SORRY, THE WORLD DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A LOVING WIFE AND OTHER PEEPS FEELINGS INVOLVED HERE. However, if he wants to be in a relationship with me, he has to be gentle and kind and respectful. EXACTLY RIGHT! NOBODY DESERVES TO LIVE IN FEAR AND BEING TREATED LIKE A DOORMAT. I’ve already been "sushi-ed" for 15 years in this relationship and I’m just do not tolerate "aggressive, animated, passionate" very well! Period! YOU ARE RIGHT - AND NOBODY SHOULD HAVE TO PUT UP WITH BS LIKE THAT, NOBODY. SUPPOSE YOU DID THAT CRAP TO HIM - HE COULDN'T HANDLE IT! Anyway, I mentioned to him that his comments sounded very "blaming" to me and (see if you can guess)—he just LAUNCHED OFF on me! OOPSIE! YOU CRACKED HIS LITTLE SHELL WAY OF THINKING AND YOU UPSET HIS APPLECART - HE IS BEGINNING TO SEE THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE PUSHED AROUND, STOMPED ON, AND ABUSED ANY LONGER, AND HE DOESN'T LIKE IT! I’m WAY too sensitive and I’m escalating and I’m verbally abusive to HIM and … apparently I’m the cause of all his problems! WHAT!? HUSBAND, I CAN'T EVEN JUSTIFY THAT LINE OF HORSE-SH*T WITH ANY KIND OF COMMENT WHATSOEVER, IT'S SO LUDICRIOUS. Haha. Oh brother. Well, I finally told him to either de-escalate or I was going to hang up the phone. No response to my statement…it just continued. Then I said, "You have a choice. Would you rather be right or married? You have until I count to three to de-escalate or I will hang up on three and you will lose your wife and family. Which do you pick? 1 - 2 - 3." I hung up. Shortly thereafter, he called back and said this was stupid but I should ask him anymore questions or try to have relationship talks or do anything other than business/schedule talk until he can see his counselors. I THINK HE NEEDS TO CHANGE COUNSELORS, AS THE ONES HE IS SEEING ARE ABOUT WORTHLESS BECAUSE HE IS NOT TAKING ANY OF THEIR ADVICE! AND OF COURSE, HE'S PROBABLY LOADING THE STORY OF HIS PROBLEMS HEAVILY IN HIS FAVOUR AND PROBABLY MAKING HIMSELF OUT TO BE THE VICTIM HERE AND 'OOOHH MY WIFE IS SO EVIL TO ME, YADDA YADDA I JUST CAN'T STAND IT, BLASE BLASE' CRAP. AM I RIGHT?

Soooo…as usual, in his little world, I’m supposed to just sit around and wait and be supportive while he works on himself and "figures out a few things." THERE'S NOT MUCH TO FIGURE OUT - HE HAS MENTAL PROBLEMS AND SOME PENT-UP RAGE FROM WAY BACK PROBABLY FROM HIS CHILDHOOD. HIS HAVING MULTIPLE AFFAIRS IS CERTAINLY NOT HELPING THINGS ANY - NOT ONLY IS IT WRONG, IT'S POURING GAS ON THE FIRE! It will clearly take SEVERAL months, if not YEARS…but I’m supposed to just sit here at home and raise the kids by myself until he realizes the harm he’s done and works on himself?? BALONEY!!! My life has been on "hold" for YEARS now…waiting for him to pull his head out of his butt. EXACTLY! And, hello, but where’s the partner who’s supposed to help me with MY issues?? Where’s the partner who’s supposed to help me raise the kids and financially support the family?? THE PARTNER IS OFF IN HIS OWN LITTLE WORLD AND 'IT'S ALL ABOUT HIM' SO SCREW EVERYBODY ELSE BECAUSE HE'S NUMBER ONE AND NOBODY ELSE MATTERS IN HIS WARPED SCHEME OF THINGS. When do I ever get to have the thrill of an affair? Do I ever get to just blow off all of MY responsibilities and "figure out a few things" AND have him just sit around and take it?? HECK NO!!! Then, in what twisted world is it right that I should just let him be on a rampage, trample all over my heart and my feelings, abandon the kids and I and leave all the responsibilities to me, and then just let him back with open arms when he "figures things out." NO!! NO-NO-NO-NO-NO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Up, down, up, down, up, down. I need to grab hold and take control of my own ride!!

CJ</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faithful, please know that I am praying for you and I'll be back to check on your Posts. I hope I have not offended you in any way, as I certainly did not mean to. Please stay strong and keep the faith! May God bless you and your dear children.
Harold

((((((CJ))))))

WHY are you DATING him in PLAN B?

No dinner, no movies, no phone calls not absolutely necessary. Let him experience life completely and totally WITHOUT you.

Am I right?

faithful wife-I read your post and it breaks my heart. I see so much of my life in your story. My H has so many similarities to yours. I feel like I am losing my mind trying to figure out the "whys" of the past. But I won't (lose my mind), because I am going to pull through this healthier and happier.

My H fits the criteria for borderline personality disorder almost 100%. I believe I am codependent, turned into resentful. My 16 year old daughter is diagnosed bipolar and my 11 year old son has recently been diagnosed with depression and high stress. I am overwhelmed right now with a feeling of "how did I let this happen?"

How are your children? I read your other post (your list) Very impressive. (scream, hug, scream) I keep looking for information on how children are/could be affected by this dysfunction. I am not finding very much. H and I are in MC. both kids are in C. The "therapy" suggested seems to be to spend more time together. But the way things stand, that is more harmful than helpful, IMO. (I realize I am not the expert) H has not raged for quite some time, but I am leary. He is trying to appear "normal" to the C and the outside world in general. I want to convince C that we are dealing with more than a typical breakdown of love. It is so much deeper than that.

I admire your courage. and the fact that you are "standing up for your rights and setting bouandaries" with your H. I got myself stuck over the years in the toxic pattern of repressing feelings and avoiding the confrontations. I am trying to stop the "ride" I am seasick.

You are an inspiration to me

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ex-Princess Buttercup:
<strong> WHY are you DATING him in PLAN B?

No dinner, no movies, no phone calls not absolutely necessary. Let him experience life completely and totally WITHOUT you.

Am I right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, Buttercup...as you wish (heehee--see? I love Princess Bride TOO!)

Lovely Princess of course you are right. I had come to the same conclusion myself. Let's see. He has and e-affair, moves out, acts threatening and abusive, and I keep trying to be nice. That's ... umm, let's just say it's not smart! I know I don't need to be as mean and abusive as he is, but I need to stop being NICE.

If he is lonely--TOO BAD. He's the one who had all those affairs and moved out!

If he is sad--TOO BAD. He had a family RIGHT HERE who wanted to make him happy.

If he is confused--TOO BAD. He has made the choices he has made. I sure didn't want them!

See what I mean?? I need to remind myself that the more I'm in contact with him, the more I play his game.

CJ

Sauron, I confess that I did not read all your comments, as I found your intermingling of post and response too confusing to sort out at this time of day, but I'm not convinced that "bipolar mood swings" are required to explain what happened. I think something much more deterministic might be going on.

On Tuesday, we've got some heavy-duty projection (actually projective identification) mixed in with rage over the "Plan B" letter. While it's true that this behavior indicates a mental state a bit outside the bounds of what anyone would consider healthy, the important datum here is that it was in reaction to the letter. I haven't seen the letter, so I don't know what in particular might have been taken as a threat, but I think it's fair to assume that CJ's husband felt that she was attempting to wrest control over their relationship - or over herself - away from him.

It's no wonder he "WOULD NOT tolerate a Plan B". After all, an abuser is pretty much addicted to controlling his victim. So, what's the first thing he needs to do? He needs to test whether his control is still intact.

Again, I don't know what was actually in the "Plan B" letter, but if it bore any semblance to Harley's idea of Plan B, then going on a date would be right out of the picture. So less than 24 hours after receiving the letter and going ballistic about it, CJ's husband asks her out on a date. And of course he's pleasant on the date. After all, he has just proven that the "Plan B" is merely a figment of CJ's imagination, and he is basking in the confirmation that he still is in control.

The rest of the week proceeded in the same vein. Everything - everything - that CJ's husband did can be understood as either testing or exerting control over her.

Sauron/Harold,

No you did not offend me. Your remarks were so FUNNY...and so dead on it's not even funny!

You are not kidding that my H was swinging all over the place and cycling and OY VEY who knows what?? God knows, I can't keep up with it anymore. And I think that's the key, right there. I can't do this anymore. This is not exhaustion or weariness talking here...this is "enough is enough" talking here. This is, "I can no longer sacrifice myself because you have mental health issues."

Sigh.

I would like it very much if you would write to me off-forum at cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com. I have a question I'm not sure you'd like to answer "in public", namely: What have YOU done to deal with and stabilize your bipolar disorder? I know that everyone is different when it comes to being bipolar, so what worked for you may/will not necessarily work for others. Yet, I'm curious what steps you took to get real with yourself and stabilize your cycles.

BTW, just for you, there is a song on my mind that's hitting a nerve: Stevie Nicks (that witchy woman)
Well I been afraid of changing
'cuz I built my life around you
But time makes me bolder
Children get older
I'm getting older too

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

CJ

GDP,

My Fav!! Glad you responded!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Okay, I will have a more comprehensive reply to your post later, but for your info, I am adding a copy of my Plan B letter--just so you can see it.

* * * * *

Dear (H's name),

I love you and I care about you very much. You are the one and only love of my life, and I have loved you with my whole heart from the moment I met you.

The last couple years I have been through a lot. I can see the ways in which my behaviors contributed to us being at this point in our relationship. I forgot to own the relationship that I have had a hand in creating. I was not a safe, loving place for you to express your thoughts and feelings. I did not BUILD your self esteem rather than tearing it to shreds. And our marriage was not a place of stability even in a fight. I have been and still am more than willing to address and correct the mistakes I made, and I am becoming a better and more loving woman as a result. I had hoped that the changes I made would have been enough to show you that I accepted responsibility for my part of our recovery…

More than anything else in this world, I would like to be able to put the mistakes of the past behind us and build a better life together in the present. But so many promises have been broken and are still being broken, and so many choices have been made that have traumatized, damaged and wounded me, that I am not currently in a place where I have any trust left. Honestly, I don't have the reserves of emotional stamina to continue "hoping" for our marriage and "trusting" you, when I am not able to take the time I need to recover from the emotional wounds I have allowed. Trust is earned by consistent, honest behavior over a long amount of time…not just a few weeks or months…and right now, I need time for emotional safety, not emotional risk. Simply put, I can not survive another infidelity.

So, I have hope that you will demonstrate by your actions that you want to rebuild our lives together—as my husband and as the kids’ father! I pray you will accept responsibility for your part of our recovery by most importantly of all, admitting and taking full responsibility for what I perceive to be a sexual addiction or an infidelity addiction. I do not believe this is an issue you can "deal with on your own" so I am hopeful that you will enter some sort of treatment or counseling for this, and I envision the day that you will be able to demonstrate to me that the sex addiction is dealt with and completely under your control. Perhaps Steve Harley can help you develop the Plan and set it into motion. I also look forward to the day that you admit and take full responsibility for choosing to rage at and emotionally abusing me and harming the kids emotionally too—and I anticipate the day that you will demonstrate to me that you have taken the time and done the work to get to the root of the issue of why you behave abusively toward those you say you love. While you work through those issues, protecting me and the kids has got to be the PRIME DIRECTIVE. Until the time that your actions have demonstrated to me that I can trust you, I need to have very limited or no contact with you…to detach emotionally. Please understand that this is not an act of manipulation, control, or anger. It is only an act of self-preservation, to protect my emotions and the kids’ hearts from further hurt and to allow us all the time that we need to restore ourselves. To be honest, every time I am with you or see you right now, I want to turn to you for comfort! I want to have a deep, loving, intimate relationship, and it’s tearing me up inside that we don’t!

Anyway, I suggest that we participate in a Controlled Separation, with Steve Harley as our guide. I request that we review our status on the first of each month, and during our separation that we maintain extremely limited, minimum, but friendly contact and work on our own issues. I suggest that we continue to call in the mornings to go over our schedules. At that time we can confirm that there was follow-through regarding appointments, etc. AND be accountable to each other. In the evenings, I would like to propose that we maintain complete no contact for at least one month, and that we specifically plan what to do on what days—so that any contact is expected and scheduled ONLY (for example, Mon. is poker night; Wed. is support group night; Thur. is spending time with the kids that they so desperately need; etc.). After some trust is built, I recommend we start couple’s counseling with Steve Harley, someone with whom we are both comfortable.

With all my love, always,

ME!

* * * * *

Just thought it might help you process that datum more accurately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I will make one comment. It had never occurred to me that a portion of what he was doing was TESTING the resolve of my Plan B. EXCELLENT POINT. Boy, I blew it by basically demonstrating that I didn't mean any of it, but then again, I learned, so it wasn't a complete loss.

More later, okay??? {{GDP}}

CJ

P.S. Are you having an identity crisis?? Who are you again??? heehee

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>P.S. Are you having an identity crisis?? Who are you again??? heehee</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My current hypothesis is that I suffer from MSPD - Multiple Simultaneous Personalities Disorder. GnomeDePlume is among the more aloof and secretive of these personalities. No personal feelings (or lack thereof) should be inferred from his/my excessive pedantry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Um, that wasn't a grin. I just was checking to see if I had something caught in my teeth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Er, I think I've got something in my eye too...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>Sauron/Harold,

No you did not offend me. Your remarks were so FUNNY...and so dead on it's not even funny!

You are not kidding that my H was swinging all over the place and cycling and OY VEY who knows what?? God knows, I can't keep up with it anymore. And I think that's the key, right there. I can't do this anymore. This is not exhaustion or weariness talking here...this is "enough is enough" talking here. This is, "I can no longer sacrifice myself because you have mental health issues."

Sigh.

I would like it very much if you would write to me off-forum at cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com. I have a question I'm not sure you'd like to answer "in public", namely: What have YOU done to deal with and stabilize your bipolar disorder? I know that everyone is different when it comes to being bipolar, so what worked for you may/will not necessarily work for others. Yet, I'm curious what steps you took to get real with yourself and stabilize your cycles.

BTW, just for you, there is a song on my mind that's hitting a nerve: Stevie Nicks (that witchy woman)
Well I been afraid of changing
'cuz I built my life around you
But time makes me bolder
Children get older
I'm getting older too

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

CJ</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Faithful! Or should I say CJ? Also, GnomeDePlume, sorry if I got you 'lost' in my responses - it's just that I dont' know that cutsie little cut&paste stuff that others do so well on these boards. So I stick with All CAPS within responses - unless I'm outside the quote box like I am now.
My Bi-Polar Illness, I will be happy to write about on the Public Boards - who knows, the things I write may help someone else identify this Illness and therefore have somewhere to start in their lives/marriage.
CJ, I'm glad I brought a smile to your face in this dark time of your life. It might really be funny if it wasn't so tragic - your marriage disintegrating like it is and your husband acting like a child - about 95% of his comments are so full of crap it's almost laughable. I guess he really is serious, ie. it makes perfect sense to him. Perhaps Brain-damaged might describe him better though.
I want to go into a longer post tonight - but I am, like, totally tired and shagged out tonight! I posted a bit on the Kingdom Of Caerlon thread yesterday and day before about my DipSh!t of a realtor - dealing with her lame a$$ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> has worn both my wife and me out - then today - O Lord have mercy - today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . Well, let's just say that if she had done any less, she wouldn't even be a realtor... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Well, anyway, enuff about that.
Although I have BiPolar Illness, it's a bit different from the 'normal' (ha, what's normal these days) diagnosis of BiPolar in that mine comes from my Service in Operation Desert Storm I. We were hit with chemical/nerve agents from Iraq on 5 different occasions. Bear in mind that normal doses of these agents are designed to disrupt your Nervous System within seconds and you die in less than half a minute. So we got low doses - which took longer to really show up - that they have conveniently labeled 'Unknown Illness, Gulf War Syndrome' etc. Those of us with the Gulf Illness look fine on the outside, but our insides (nervous system) are trashed. Besides Central Nervous Sleep Apnea, Dyslexia, Chronic Fatigue, Memory & Concentration Loss, Narcolepsy, etc. some of us also have BiPolar from the damage caused by the chemicals.
So, to my BiPolar Illness. I have been 'Ginuea Pigged' with the following anti-depressants and mood-stabilizers: Depakote, Lithium, Prozac, Celexa, Paxil, Welbutrin, and Zoloft. In my case, either the medicines had severe side effects, or they did nothing at all for me. Lithium tore up my digestive system. Depakote and Welbutrin did absolutely NOTHING for me. Neither did Prozac. Hell, I was taking 100 mg of Prozac a day - taking it like candy - and absolutely nothing at all! Zoloft cause me to go into rages so I got off that stuff fast. Paxil made me hallucinate - I would see the walls start moving and flowing like water and weird stuff growing out of them. Celexa and Lithium cause me to go completely stupid when I took them together as prescribed - my wife said I was like Mr. Hyde and she became afraid of me.
Today - 1 year later - I have been off of all medications for over a year now. I still have my mood swings, although not as bad. You'll never believe in a thousand years what stabilizes my moods. I go across the street and buy it - ALCOHOL! Now don't get me wrong, I am not an alcoholic: I drink maybe once a month, sometimes every other month. I don't get drunk. I drink 1 to 4 drinks at a time when I drink.
Call it weird, but it helps me stay stabilized. I drink a lot of coffee though. So is this weird or what? My Doctor who was trying all these medicines out on me said that 'Never in her life had she seen someone have the reactions to these medications that I have had!' and she was scratching her head in amazement. She didn't have any idea what to do with me next, so I quit going to see her. Told her I was going to another doctor, but I never did.
So my experience is unique and odd. I will go on a mild manic episode and a mild depressive episode - sometimes several in a day. Other times, it's half a week or maybe 2 to 3 weeks between episodes. Strange, huh? Doctors don't know what to do. I determined I will NOT be taking any anti-depressants or mood-stabilizers again. The cure is worse than the symptoms!!
I am sorry if this is confusing you or making you scratch YOUR head, but that is my story regarding BiPolar and the doctors who couldn't help.
Harold

faithful, I've been on that same rollercoaster with my H that you're now riding with yours. First thing you need to know: that screaming, raging, belittling, blaming, etc. is abuse, despite what your H says. My H used all the same denials and excuses, blaming and controlling manuevers as your H. My H also acts Bipolar, but he's an addict/alcoholic and that's what causes his behavior. He was sober for many years in AA and during that time he was a very different person.

I would recommend a book called The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. She describes many patterns of verbal abuse but dedicates a chapter to The Anger Addict. That chapter described my H and from what you describe, it sounds like your H, too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sauron:
<strong> Hi Faithful! Or should I say CJ? Also, GnomeDePlume, sorry if I got you 'lost' in my responses - it's just that I dont' know that cutsie little cut&paste stuff that others do so well on these boards. So I stick with All CAPS within responses - unless I'm outside the quote box like I am now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sauron, you can call me anything you want except "Hey you!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> My real live name is CJ, but my screenname here at MB is FaithfulWife.

Here are instructions for the cutsie little cut&paste:

First you click on "Reply with a quote" right? And the whole, entire post shows up. You know that part! At the beginning of the quote you want, you type these characters in order but without the quotation marks: "[ quote ] [ qb ]". I also included spaces before and after the brackets so that it wouldn't actually create a quote here on this post. At the END of the quote you want, you type these characters in order but without the quotation marks: "[ /qb ] [ /quote ]". Once again, I included spaces. You can do that as many times as you want with the whole, entire post, and then delete the part you didn't want to write about. Does that make sense??

Okay...

You wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>CJ, I'm glad I brought a smile to your face in this dark time of your life. It might really be funny if it wasn't so tragic - your marriage disintegrating like it is and your husband acting like a child </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd have to say I agree with you. I'm glad you're around to make me grin too, because it helps so much. At times I really do feel as if everything is falling apart, and I just cry and cry. Then other times I get mad--how dare he do this to me and to our kids!! What a jerk!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Although I have BiPolar Illness, it's a bit different from the 'normal' (ha, what's normal these days) diagnosis of BiPolar in that mine comes from my Service in Operation Desert Storm I. ... So, to my BiPolar Illness. I have been 'Ginuea Pigged' with the following anti-depressants and mood-stabilizers: Depakote, Lithium, Prozac, Celexa, Paxil, Welbutrin, and Zoloft. In my case, either the medicines had severe side effects, or they did nothing at all for me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa!! You are a darn DRUG STORE!! heehee. And Lordy, Lordy who can tell what "normal" is these days. I think "normal" has been thrown right out the window and replaced!!

On behalf of the American people, let me just give you a moment of honor for serving your country and for the sacrifice that you made in our stead. Of course, I do not speak for everyone, but I for one want to say thank you and let you know that I recognize and appreciate what you gave.

Now, that being said, OMG!! From what I can see, you've tried everything! Did it take you a long time try all those drugs...have you been struggling with this long? As I understand it, most of the drugs take a couple of weeks to have an effect, so it must have been quite hard on you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Lithium tore up my digestive system. Depakote and Welbutrin did absolutely NOTHING for me. Neither did Prozac. ... Zoloft cause me to go into rages so I got off that stuff fast. Paxil made me hallucinate - I would see the walls start moving and flowing like water and weird stuff growing out of them. Celexa and Lithium cause me to go completely stupid when I took them together as prescribed - my wife said I was like Mr. Hyde and she became afraid of me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aren't Welbutrin and Prozac and Zoloft and Paxil drugs for depression?? I've seen bipolar people take drugs for depression, and OMG!! It makes the illness so much worse!! OY GEVALT! And why did you stop the hallucinations, dude?? heehee

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Today - 1 year later - I have been off of all medications for over a year now. ... You'll never believe in a thousand years what stabilizes my moods. ... ALCOHOL! Now don't get me wrong, I am not an alcoholic: I drink maybe once a month, sometimes every other month. I don't get drunk. I drink 1 to 4 drinks at a time when I drink. ... Call it weird, but it helps me stay stabilized. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay...that's weird.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> So my experience is unique and odd. I will go on a mild manic episode and a mild depressive episode - sometimes several in a day. Other times, it's half a week or maybe 2 to 3 weeks between episodes. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well that sounds familiar--only the manic episodes are not so mild!! So if you have sometimes have several in a day, do you consider yourself rapid cycling? And what happens in between episodes...are ya "normal"? haha I mean, in between episodes do you just live along like the rest of us or what?? That's what I do...just live along.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am sorry if this is confusing you or making you scratch YOUR head, but that is my story regarding BiPolar and the doctors who couldn't help.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I think I followed along pretty well, I'm just scratching my head because it's so weird! It's my experience that the doctors really have trouble with this illness because it's so different for each person. For example, my sister is rapid cycling, mixed states (which means she's manic and depressed at the same time) and they have a HECK of a time figuring out how to help her!! OY.

Well, thanks for sharing!!

CJ

CJ.....(((hugs)))

If you remember back when I was posting all the time, my x was just like your H. Now I haven't spoken to him since May 21st, and haven't even seen him since Nov. 1.......and here is the strange part: At first, I would think "oh, I want to tell x about this"....but then I'd realize that every time I shared with him he'd put me down, ridicule me, ignore me.....he had to be in control. As the months went by, I realized that we had very little good interaction....fleeting moments of good times in 12 years of marriage......not nearly enough to sustain a relationship. I was really blind to so many things until I was away from him for a long period.

It would seem to me that even talking to your H every morning gives him so many opportunities for control and abuse.....try even a week with no contact at all and see how much more clearly you think about your relationship. And how much confidence you gain in your own abilities. Get a restraining order if you are truly scared of him; it will also help you in maintaining that no contact.

Just some ideas......

Anna

cj,

anna is right. I haven't seen or spoken to my H since last May and haven't heard from him since I changed my phone #, cell phone #, and e-mail address in August. To use the drug analogy, I had to go through withdrawals, but now I'm so much better, happier, less angry, more forgiving, ready to get on with my life. My life is no longer defined by what he's doing, what mood he's in, whether he's being nice or mean, etc. what a relief!

Leslie

Hi CJ! (I'll stick with that, if it's OK with you) I have 'cut and paste' your instructions (hehehehehehe) onto a NotePad Document so I will experiment with it later. So if it looks all screwey you'll know why - sometimes it takes me a few tries to get this stuff right. So right now, I'm typing this onto a tiny window of a NotePad document and have another window with your Post on - so this is kinda odd, but this is how I'll do it for awhile anyway till I get the hang of this. That is one other thing about my Illness - sometimes I can handle really technical subjects, and other times, making a simple darn phone call blows my mind! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's the concentration thing, I guess, along with the memory problems.
CJ I do thank you for your kind words regarding my Military Service - it does mean a lot to hear that from you as well as others. Drug store is right about my medications - ha! Too many doctors want to just throw a bag of medicine at you and hope 'something works' heheheheee. Well, I began Prozac in late '95, then in early '97 I went to Paxil, late '97 I was on Zoloft, then early '98 I was back on Paxil (reduced dose) then mid '98 I was on Depakote and Paxil, then late '98 I went to Welbutrin, and then I quit the meds until early '01 when they put me on Lithium and Prozac again. About 2 months later they took me off the Lithium and tried Celexa. After I used my dosages up I decided that I was NOT going to take any more anti-depressants and so therefore told the doctor I was 'going somewhere else' and let it go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
"On Paper" the drugs I took are Mood Enhancers. Lithium and Depakote are Mood Stabilizers - the 'theory' (and it's just that - a fricking theory) goes that the Mood Stablizers smooth out your highs and lows, then you take the Mood Enhancers so your lows won't be so bad. So, theoritecally (can't spell either) I'm supposed to be a Happy Camper, right? NOT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> The medications made me so irritable my wife wanted me to come off them and she said she was soooo tired of walking around on eggshells when I was home - I don't work so I'm home all the time!
Rapid Cycling - sure I guess you can call it that, although when I do it, my mood swings are mild - but when they take longer between episodes, they are stronger, and I will get hyperactive (isn't that a laugh seeing I also have CONSTANT Chronic Fatigue Syndrome too) but my hyperactive spells are usually short-lived (something like an hour or 2 at the most) although I have had a hyper spell last all day a few times.
Still sound screwey? I thought so! Hehehehehee so I look at it this way - medications don't work, I hate hangovers, I never want to be one of the Veterans strung out on drugs and homeless, and I do a lot of research online about Veteran's Issues and Persian Gulf Illness. I also post a lot on MB - even though my Divorce was final in mid '98 I still find peace and continuing healing on this site, and it makes my day if I post something and I get a response back that I have helped someone out and/or made them smile despite their sorrow and pain in their Marriage Situation.
Take care, and I'll be back.
PS - We're moving about 40 miles down the road this weekend and into early next week, and doing a lot of it ourselves, so things have been a bit hairy around here lately!!
Peace and have a GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAT DAY (sorry Tony The Tiger, I 'hijacked' your fave quote hehehehehe)
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Harold

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LetSTry:
<strong>faithful, I've been on that same rollercoaster with my H that you're now riding with yours. First thing you need to know: that screaming, raging, belittling, blaming, etc. is abuse, despite what your H says. My H used all the same denials and excuses, blaming and controlling manuevers as your H. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, LetSTry! I remember you from the olden golden days! haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yeah, in my head I KNOW (deep down KNOW) that what he is doing is in fact verbal, mental, and emotional abuse, but at the time it's happening it throws me off balance enough to temporarily get confused. Then it takes me a day or so to get back "on track" where I feel as if I am thinking clearly again and know what I'm doing.

Honestly, it's just a ploy that he uses because he's knows it knocks me off balance. I know that. I just haven't figured out how to respond to it yet so that it doesn't throw me off. I also realize that it is a tactic used to keep HIM in control and me out of control. So, I'm getting there!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I would recommend a book called The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. She describes many patterns of verbal abuse but dedicates a chapter to The Anger Addict. That chapter described my H and from what you describe, it sounds like your H, too.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, LetSTry, I LOVE that book. I have had that book for about a year now (maybe 1 1/2 years??) and I use it for an enormous resource. See, whenever he does do those blaming, screaming tactics, I will refer back to the book either right then and there or the next day and re-read parts of it and say, "This IS abuse. These are the abuses that happened. I'm thinking clearly because here are the words for what happened." Does that make any sense?

He keeps telling me that I don't know what abuse is and that I just "play the abuse card" any time I don't agree with him or don't like what he's saying, and you know what? That just isn't true. I DO know what abuse is!! I can tell when it is happening! I have even learned/memorized what several of the categories of abuse are so I can use vocabulary to identify it. So, I use that book to help me get my mind clear again.

Also, you are DEAD ON regarding the Anger Addict. It is actually funny to watch...in a sad sort of way. The last time we were separated, my H went on a business trip to NY with some co-workers. Well, we were separated (so I wasn't even part of his life) and he was in ANOTHER WHOLE STATE, yet after some time went by, he HAD to blow and have an angry explosion and he didn't know what to do because I wasn't there to blame it on! Seriously. He ended up exploding at a co-owner of the company he works for and then saying it was just "frustration" from traveling so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It is DEFINITELY an addiction, and he must have his fix every couple of days.

Soooo..this is why we are separated. I can not and will not live my life as his punching bag anymore! Well, that and he kept have affairs. Thankfully, I'm in a support group for abused women and on an email group from Dr. Irene's site, and MAN is that helpful!

Listen, if you ever want to talk off-forum, why don't you write me at cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com? I bet we could swap great stories!!!

Thanks LetSTry!

CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:
<strong> My current hypothesis is that I suffer from MSPD - Multiple Simultaneous Personalities Disorder. GnomeDePlume is among the more aloof and secretive of these personalities. No personal feelings (or lack thereof) should be inferred from his/my excessive pedantry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Um, that wasn't a grin. I just was checking to see if I had something caught in my teeth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Er, I think I've got something in my eye too...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OH MY! Such big words!! It makes my head hurt!

So what are you doing to test your hypothesis?? Are there studies...surveys...lab work?? Is this a new syndrome? Have there been papers in the NE Journal?? I believe it may be related to or a portion of MSPD: Multi Syllabic Pedantry Disorder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I wasn't sticking out my tongue at you. I think I bit myself and I was just checking. Nope...I didn't. It would appear, however, that while my tongue is fine, my eyes have sunk into my head...do you think this will help? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

(Right back atcha!)

CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>So what are you doing to test your hypothesis?? Are there studies...surveys...lab work?? Is this a new syndrome? Have there been papers in the NE Journal??</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't uncovered any research on the subject, so I expect I'll have to do my own. Of course, first I'll have to see about getting a Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I believe it may be related to or a portion of MSPD: Multi Syllabic Pedantry Disorder.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh dear. That sounds scary-serious. I may be really sick...

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: GnomeDePlume ]</small>

cj,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hey, LetSTry! I remember you from the olden golden days! haha </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup, and here we both still are...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, in my head I KNOW (deep down KNOW) that what he is doing is in fact verbal, mental, and emotional abuse, but at the time it's happening it throws me off balance enough to temporarily get confused. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Exactly!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just haven't figured out how to respond to it yet so that it doesn't throw me off. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure there IS a right way to respond to abuse. I know I never figured it out. I just had to go to really strict no contact with the help of restraining order, alarm system and changed phone number, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> whenever he does do those blaming, screaming tactics, I will refer back to the book either right then and there or the next day and re-read parts of it and say, "This IS abuse. These are the abuses that happened. I'm thinking clearly because here are the words for what happened." Does that make any sense? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes! that makes total sense to me. The abuse leaves you totally shaken and doubting your self and your senses. Seeing those words that exactly describes your experience is very reasssuring. No, your not insane, your just living in an insane situation!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He keeps telling me that I don't know what abuse is and that I just "play the abuse card" any time I don't agree with him or don't like what he's saying </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an EXACT, and you know what? That just isn't true. I DO know what abuse is!! I can tell when it is happening! I have even learned/memorized what several of the categories of abuse are so I can use vocabulary to identify it. So, I use that book to help me get my mind clear again.

Also, you are DEAD ON regarding the Anger Addict. It is actually funny to watch...in a sad sort of way. The last time we were separated, my H went on a business trip to NY with some co-workers. Well, we were separated (so I wasn't even part of his life) and he was in ANOTHER WHOLE STATE, yet after some time went by, he HAD to blow and have an angry explosion and he didn't know what to do because I wasn't there to blame it on! Seriously. He ended up exploding at a co-owner of the company he works for and then saying it was just "frustration" from traveling so much. It is DEFINITELY an addiction, and he must have his fix every couple of days.

Soooo..this is why we are separated. I can not and will not live my life as his punching bag anymore! Well, that and he kept have affairs. Thankfully, I'm in a support group for abused women and on an email group from Dr. Irene's site, and MAN is that helpful!

Listen, if you ever want to talk off-forum, why don't you write me at cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com? I bet we could swap great stories!!!

Thanks LetSTry!

CJ

cj,

sorry I somehow posted this twice, oops!

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: LetSTry ]</small>