Yesterday made one day that I had moved out with son out of my dream house. The home I thought would be a happy one.

So it was yet another anniversary. Sad one. Anyway one year later I find myself in the office of my new attorney who is working in conjunction with my old one. He is a really great trial guy and went to law school and is buddies w/judge. Before that, let me backtrack to my driving to work...Call from Deucey. He had son for the night and ha son to call to say that he misses me. So son is on the phone and then Deucey takes the phone and starts acting all nice. Because he wants to discuss the HOLIDAYS. what wonderful stuff for those divorcing to discuss huh? So we attempt to speak about it and I start crying out of the blue. I said I hated what you have done to this family. And he says can't you get on with it? I mean, Ms. Family Values' ex (not sure if she was ever married to the guy) has a great relationship with him and why can't we just be happy for each other and be friends? Then he said that our marriage was a joke. That he and I were never friends, that I wasn't close to his family (wonder why?) and that he didn't like me as a person (wonder why to?) and that those issues forced him to seek out other women. Forced him. That was when something broke inside of me. I told him that he can take all this new age good divorce bs and stick it and so can he and Ms. family Values. And that my even speaking with him to discuss child issues is no longer an acceptable thing for me to do b/c it keeps me from moving ahead and I have to focus on that. And that he can visit any church he wants to (he has visited one ww/ms. family values) and that I have friends there and I';ve even visited that church myself and can say that their minister would be totally opposed to what they are saying is justification of divorce. I told him very kindly that this was to make him feel better now. So I told him that basically this B thing has to be more strict. I will be staying here in GA and can't go home for Christmas b/cv I have to go to work the day after Christmas. So it will be a really difficult one.

So now it is not only Deucey in a fog but is his new foggy mistress. The new age good divorce "let's all be friends and commit adultery together if it feels good" way of foggy logic is abound here. I cried all the way to work but somehow felt relieved once I calmed down. I was able to see the utter stupidity of his own words for the really first time. To understand that he justified his adultery by saying he was forced to seek out other women. Yea I forced him. Held a friggin gun to his head if he didn't go out and commit adultery. My goodness the lies are just mounting up.

Anyway, this afternoon I went to meet with the other trial lawyer. Found out good news regarding custody and the philosophy of the judge I've been assigned to. Pretty much cut and dried that I will retain primary custody and maybe get primary legal too. Not sure but for sure prmary physical custody is a given here. And this judge doesn't go by the 75K max a year rule in child support or alimony guidelines so I can be awarded more than I had figured. This goes hand in hand with the fog talk from Deucey. He spouted out this morning that "doesn't if feel awful to be handed that check every month? Some women, at least the ones I respect made it on their own". I told this to attorneys and the new one said to me "DON'T EVEN LISTEN TO HIM". "HE IS ON A MISSION". And that mission is to be as little as responsible for your welfare as possible from the day he slept with that first woman on. I OPENED MY EYES. Then the attorney told me this :IF I WERE YOU I WOULDN'T EVEN SPEAK TO HIM AT ALL. ALL THAT IS ACCOMPLISHED IS YOU GETTING UPSET OVER THE HORROS HE PUT YOU THROUGH. I'D CUT THE CORD TOTALLY NOW AND JUST NOT SPEAK TO HIM. THE HOLIDAYS ARE HARD ENOUGH AND DON'T LET HIM PUT YOU THROUGH THAT EVEN IF LIMITED CONTACT HAS BEEN THE NORM."

That spoke volumes to me and should to you. He, Deucey, will say anything to get his way financially. Including lying, including guilt,k and including false promises of friendship and anything else.

The attorney also told me (he is a very respected lawyer and formerly elected official) of how a man once pretended to reconcile with his wife just before the holidays. And in a fault state if you drop the proceedings, such as adultery or abuse, and move back in with them or attempt some kind of validated attempt at a reconciliation then if you refile, it'd have to be under new grounds. So this couple went to counseling and moved in together maybe for a month and then the guy turned around and filed again and the charge of adultery was not applicable when the wife tried to counter file and claim his adultery with his former mistress. In the end, the man married his mistress and the grounds were irreconcilable differences and the wife could no longer claim adultery b/c she took her H back.

Attorney said the moral of this story is this. If people are willing to change then a new marriage would be in order. That if there are finances or estates to be divided and that division could be decided upon the fault of one party vs. another that YOU CANNOT TRUST THE DECEIVER AT ALL. YOU CANNOT TRUST THEM TO BE HONEST OR PLAY HONEST IN THESE MATTERS. AND THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS GET REMARRIED IF THEY TRULY AND HONESTLY CHANGE AND THAT THE JUDGE HAS REALLY ENJOYED DOING THAT PART. But that is something for us to decide here. Can we be able to trust our WS's during a divorce?j Absolutely not. We can't. They deceived us then and are probably attempting to do so now as well.

I'm ready to proceed with this folks. It hurts like heck buti want this over. My new attorney said that I was very pretty and he didn't expect me to stay single too long after unless it was something I just wanted. Made me feel good. And he was very angry and upset over Deucey allowing this child to be subjected to seeing other woman spend the night and the child of ms. family values too.

THEN AS WE WERE WALKING OUT IN FRONT OF BOTH ATTORNEYS, SON STARTED TALKING ABOUT OW'S CHILD SAYING THAT YESTERDAY THE OTHER BOY DIDN'T SHARE WITH HIM AND HIT HIM WITH A TOY. The attorneys calmly smiled and asked my son about it and he sung like a bird. Said "I don't like x. He doesn't share. It's not his house. My house."

In the presence of two lawyers they witnessed first hand the confusion of a little boy. An innocent little boy who may have to grow up a bit earlier than expected.

Pray for us.

Not peachy - your son is so wonderfulful to have a mother like you, and attorneys that can now see what his dad did to him. My kids have seen first hand what their father did to them. They are much older. And this hurts, hurts me to see that all 4 of my kids need counseling. My husband has said he has talked to them all, yes, what he wanted them to hear, what he wanted them to think, what he wanted them to perceive. I see till this day, the in the cloud talk, puts blame on me, still does, and will tomorrow.

They justify their actions, saying they were pushed, like you said, a GUN???? No, they knew what they were doing, and it felt GOOODDDD!!!!! Part of the problem with our society, is everyone wants to do what feels good, and not what is morally, Gods wishes.

I listen to a christian program quite regularly, and today they talked about how todays society does what it wants to do, don't matter if it destroys another persons values, or self-worth. Doesn't matter that it cost, breakup, money, lies, and more lies. They want to do what feels good. We are a throw away society, and a woman got on the phone and said her husband is throwing the marriage away, like a refrigerator. The refrigerator does well, performs well, and when things start to get a little rough around the edges, leaking, motor starts making noises, get rid of it. Instead of fixing the darn thing, buy new.

Dobson was on talking about how marriages could be saved. How the betrayer doesn't see the damage they have done. Don't see anything wrong with themselves. Also, how they don't put the blame on themselves, they justify everything. This world has become a human growth of justifiers. I can't imagine what the next generation is going to be like.

Your new lawyer sounds like he is going to serve you right. You and your lawyer are seeing what you have gone through. I heard there were going to be new rules about childsupport. It is about time someone saw what the mother goes through, and she gets her fair share.

Has your lawyer suggested that your son go to counseling? I have been told by many people that all my kids need to go. Especially our son, that read his fathers sexual e-mails to the other woman. He is good on the computer, and this was not right for our son of 17 years to read this sexual graphic sex talk between his father and a woman of no moral ethics. The counselor and my pastor both said, that this son is in need of psychological counseling. He might end up okay, but he needs to talk to someone with an educated mind, and help this son to get through his hurt and uncertainty. Like your son, he needs to know that you #1 mommy will always be there. He should not be pushed into a home of illicit sex. Also, he should not be put in a home of having to play with the other child, someone should be there for constant observation, so your son does not get bad mouthed, hit, things thrown at, by the other child. You don't know what that woman is thinking, she may just turn her head and walk away.

Good luck. Keep up the good work. Will pray for you.

I met with my lawyer two weeks ago. I thought it would be hard but I just gave him the facts and all of our records and such. All he did for most of the time was type everything into his computer. He then said that you have nothing to worry about, you cannot trust this guy, I don't know this guy and from what basics you have told me and you records, bills, and bank statements he is not to be trusted.

He also told me to hold back on contacting him, to do it as little as possible. I have and now he calls me.

He called me 3 times in a row today.....I think the fog is lifting for him, see in my other post I will write about it. But for me it is too late for me to see him. The fog got too thick and I couldn't find my way and I don't want to go back right now. I want to move ahead with my life and I feel much better about my decision. I almost feel at peace and I don't think about him or worry about him anymore.

I wish you the best, oh and one other thing....did you say you moved out????? why?

Christine

Peachy, you were right to warn others of the risk in trying too hard to reconcile with someone who has already proven untrustworthy.

I first found concrete evidence, via emails I found, that my H was having an affair in mid July. When confronted, he swore he had already broken it off (which was validated in his emails) and wanted to rebuild our life together. After only one week, he was back with the OW, all the while telling me he was working on fixing our marriage. When I found out it never really ended, but was even worse than I thought, I kicked him out of the house at the end of August.

I went to my attorney with copies of the nearly 100 emails I found confirming the affair, and at that point had valid reason to file based on Adultery. After a week of soul searching and crashing at motels and friends houses, H SWORE that he was making a REAL recommittment to me, flowers, jewelry, tears, the whole nine yards so to speak. Went to each of our daughters and future son in law, confessed he had been lying and leading a double life for years, told them he really loved me and our marriage was the most important thing to him.

So....I let him come back home, and for almost 2 months it was like a second honeymoon in many ways. Honestly, I loved this man so much and truly wanted our lives to go on, even though this latest affair ripped my heart out. Then in November, he just one day decided, nope, it isn't working. I don't feel anything for you and I have to get out of this marriage. He never told me, but I'm sure the OW got back in touch with him, he started acting the same way he had before, distant and cold. He left and a few days later started the divorce proceedings.

When I went back to my attorney, he told me I could no longer file on Adultery, because in the reconcilation we had intimate relations and that would be viewed as somehow condoning his affair. I could now file fault only on Indignities, which in view of the emails was still strong, but not the same as Adultery.
So, in making an honest attempt to give him a second (third!!! maybe more!!!) chance to save our marriage, I weakened my position in the divorce. I will go to my grave knowing that I gave 150% to this marriage and the husband that I loved, but in the end, it hurt me somewhat. Legally, emotionally, mentally, financially.

I always said I would stand by him to the end, I meant that, and I would do the same thing over again, because I feel what I did was the right thing to do and I believed in the vows we made before God.

But I would caution everyone to weigh out options completely and listen to the attorneys you are paying for. The famous line my H has kept giving me, while he as still talking to me was, "you're paying this guy, but you are in control, you don't have to do everything he says, trust me, I don't want to hurt you..." PLEASE!!! Dear God, sometimes I wonder how can this guy, who used to be so wise and strong and trustworthy, come out with this CRAP!!??!!

sounds like you've got a great lawyer who's really looking out for your best interests. I wish I'd taken the advice of well-meaning people instead of stubbornly believing my WH over and over again despite all the evidence that he was lying.

Even though I live in a "NO FAULT" state, my H did the same thing: came home, second honeymoon for a few weeks - we even went on a cruise on the advice of Steve Harley - got back, he started getting distant, staying away, picking fights, then threw me out of the house followed a day later by moving OW in and throwing the kids out because they didn't "love" the OW the way he did (she's only a few years older than them). Thank God that on top of the emotional devastation I didn't hurt myself financially too.

I'll say a prayer for you.

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Sauron ]</small>

Hey Broken x3 - can you prove he resumed the affair during or after your 2-month reconciliation, and before he moved out? Pennsylvania has a similar rule about "forgiveness", but it's only for the previous instances of adultery, it's not a lifetime pass for the WS. Can you check with your lawyer again about the rules in your state? If your H has now taken up with the same OW, coupled with your previous evidence, maybe that's enough to argue their affair never even stopped.

Peachy - it sounds great that you have good legal advice. And they have made some good points to you about speaking with or trusting your husband. There comes a time in the divorce proceedings, when you have to step back from the MB mode, and treat this like a hostile business transaction. It's hard to think that way. But the WS is already in that mode. Ever since D-day, we are playing catch-up. Leave everything to the lawyers, and if your talks with Deucey upset you, don't take his calls, especially when you son is around. That way you can stay happier for your son, a very important point. I have noticed a real difference when I practice "thought-stopping" on my wife, while the kids are here. I am much more calm, and everyone benefits.

- Tom

Thanx tmmx - actually, I have been wondering about that too. The reason is that IMMEDIATELY after he visited his lawyer, he drove directly to the Holiday Inn Express to meet with the OW. I know that for a fact because I followed him there, waited an hour and confronted them both when they came out. Of course, my WH came out first to talk to me. They didn't do ANYTHING but talk according to him....sure, I said, doesn't everyone go the the Holiday Inn to TALK??
I even called my attorney's paralegal from there. Thanks for bringing this up, I will pursue this. By the way, I also live in PA.

Broken and TMMX:

Great advice. Broken, please pursue this further. And it is killing me how we may have found a substantial cash stash of Deucey's. Goes to show that they deliberately plan some things. Sure they are selfish but will stop at nothing sometimes when the fog is thicker than pea soup. I do feel it is important to be as strong as we can for our kids. Am at work now inbetween patients. Typing fast.

But it is also important for us to know we have done all we have been able to do. That is why I am not LB'ing but basically have no contact w/Deucey except for planning Christmas times with son. That has hurt so badly.

But remember, this fog has made them become defensive of their actions, affair and all. They have created elaborate justifications to us. Basically, just a heap of lies. And they won't stop there. So we must walk a fine line. Do everything legally while not LBing. I just pretend that I don't know anything at all about the law. Deucey has wanted to deal directly w/me on the d matters (can you guess why???to give me a raw deal) and I just play dumb saying I understand alot about medicine but nothing about the law so I have my attorneys so they can do what's best for me since I am green in that area. Deucey has bought it. He knows I am smart but that I don't have alot of confidence in areas I'm not an expert in. So maybe you guys can take that approach to the divorce and to your sleuthing and uncovering the truth for proceedings. Tell you stbx that you aren't very legally saavy and that you are just doing what your lawyers have told you to do. And tell them that you're sorry that things have come to divorce, but that is how they (ws) wanted things and that you are just trying to end things properly so that the future will be easier. Fog them right back, the ws's that is. Just an idea. Keep confrontations down to a minimum. Or just be in plan B like I am.

Hi,

I need to introduce myself. I've been reading your posts for a while. I think I replied once.
I don't like writing. I am a systems analyst, only good with numbers. But I enjoy your writing. You have a gift with words.

Your situation is so familiar. Actually I was laughing when I read about your stbx telling you that his new mistress is a good friend with her ex. I laugh, just because my almost ex husband the same day I read you post, gave me the exact speech. Let's all be friends. His new love of 1.5 years is a great mother and a very good friend with her ex (not sure that they are even divorced...). My stbx could only dream that I be just like her. My answer was: If they are a good friends what is the reason for getting a divorce? Ah? Can't such a good friends go to a marriage counseling, considering that they have a child together, and fix their little problems? Or it just very convenient to have a husband helping with all the chores and let a boyfriend do more pleasant work? My guess is that their girlfriends, at least the ones they stay with for a long time, just as immature and selfish.

I disagree that our stbx are in the fog. Or they may be in the fog from the day they were born to the their very dysfunctional family. That&#8217;s who they really are. This people don't think, function or behave like normal (well we all have issues - lets say seminormal people).

I am convinced that my almost ex has a very serious personality disorder - he is a narcissist.
This disorder changes all the rules. I've been reading about this for almost a year. I realized that I couldn&#8217;t help him. There is a slim chance that anybody can. I just need to protect myself, and my children from this illness. I need to give them a chance to have a normal life.

I've also learned a little about how narcissists view the world. It's very sad and distorted, but I think we need to do this in order to know what to expect, and in order to avoid them in the future. Because there is a reason why we were so attracted to them in the first place and why we stayed loyal to them for so many years...

Your lawyer gave you a very good advice. It shows that he understands what you are dealing with.

Here is a link - http://samvak.tripod.com/. You may read this already, or you may find another way of healing. For me it was knowledge. I still love the guy I married many years ago. I am still grieving. That guy I loved so much is just not with us anymore, and he will never be. I cherish my memories, even though it was mostly a fantasy. I also know that if I knew the real him I would never married him.

Please keep posting. Even though I can&#8217;t reply often, I want you know that your posts do help me sometimes to see a light.

My best regards,

Thanks so much. And you were right. I secretly believed all along he was a narcissist. But I also think that there may be some other pathology here. Primarily narcissism though.

I am going to post in a bit about what happenef today when Deucey picked up his son. And it was sooo sad. Maybe a dose of verbal cold water from his little boy will clear his fog for a little while maybe.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{PEACHY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Keep looking up. I admire you for the way you are holding up and doing the right things. Sounds like you have a good lawyer and he has given you good advice. The advice about not even speaking to him is good. I have been trying to follow that myself.

I have been reading a book suggested by my psychologist "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. Unbelievable how it described 26 years of my life and I didnt realize how badly he was treating me, I knew it was bad, but Im talking life threatening, soul killing abuse.

OW also comes from a God fearing-Church going family. She went to Christian H.S. and her parents are youth group leaders. She was married less than 6months when she started affair with H (His 18years older).

My H told kids "God doesnt want me to be unhappy" so I guess its better than he made me and 4 kids so unhappy...made his brother unhappy, OW's parents are not happy and I guess her 5 yeqar old little girl isnt to happy either, and what about OW's H??????? and lets talk about GOD.......I dont think he is happy with what my H has done and thats just who I know of. OW has mother-in-law, brother and host of other family members. What about my childrens future wives and Husband????? my D is already having trouble with her boyfriend because she is so upset, and has already told me that she is afraid to ever get married

BUT I GUESS IT'S OKAY AS LONG AS HUSBAND IS HAPPY. what do you think??????

Of course its ok as long as the WS are happy in their foggy rationale. The rest of the world knows it's not ok. But the foggy ones do indeed believe that. And know what? My stbx has told me that "he wants me to be happy" too. Also told me earlier this month to go out and get f'd and that might help me on my new way to happiness.

I now think of him as I would do an insane individual. Not really taking his words to heart as much. And I was going to post about what happened on Saturday. It was awful. Talk about rationalizations and the fog <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
He came over to pick up son. He walks into house and son is playing with his best friend from next door. Son sits on Deucey's lap to put on his shoes and starts crying. Really hard. He is four. His dad tells me that "I know why you are crying. It's because mom just put in the spiderman video. Ask mommy if it is ok if we bring that with us. You don't need to cry about that. Big boys don't cry." Son kept on crying and then he asked him again what he was crying about. Son said "nothing". Then he told him that if he kept that up he would get a spanking and that what was really making him cry. Son said "nothing". Then when they were getting ready to go, son says this: "I WANT TO STAY WITH MOMMY. THIS IS WHY I AM SAD. CAN'T MOMMY COME WITH US? I WANT MOMMY TO BE WITH ME TOO. I WILL MISS YOU MOMMY. "

My heart broke. And at that moment, Deucey felt for the first time, or maybe not in his fogged brain, the horrors of divorce. Our precious son was crying his heart out and told him the real truth why. I was mad and hurt beyond belief. I stared Deucey straight in the eyes as son was going to get his coat and said "now you see the agony our son has gone through besides me". He stared at me. Son was crying as they left. I was somewhat shattered. I am pretty much over the adultery but am still dumbstruck by the fog and its effects. I hate what he has done to my son and I.

So wondering if that late night call was about his guilt or something like that? HE is still not a broken man. Maybe never will be. If I had been on the receiving end of that revelation from that precious four year old, I would have not been able to live with myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And at that moment, Deucey felt for the first time, or maybe not in his fogged brain, the horrors of divorce. Our precious son was crying his heart out and told him the real truth why. I was mad and hurt beyond belief. I stared Deucey straight in the eyes as son was going to get his coat and said "now you see the agony our son has gone through besides me". He stared at me. Son was crying as they left. I was somewhat shattered. I am pretty much over the adultery but am still dumbstruck by the fog and its effects. I hate what he has done to my son and I. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no, it made little impact on deucey, and they, the disordered ones have many rationalizations and ways to try to manipulate them. they are especially keen to find or prey on ones easily manipulated. . . . they are in a contest with you about control of their world. They would love nothing more than to have someone who looks up and repeats back to them exactly what they want to hear. . . . there is the divide and conquer scheme which they think and feel can win the situation, or they have pat arguments that they use over and over, and if you disagree with them, then they resort to other means. . . . isolation, subtle put downs. . . temper tantrums. . . etc. . .

at a certain point, deucey realized that he did not have control with you in the picture. . . . he needs and wants idolization. . . . unconditional. . . . a child between you really throws a wrench into that desired arrangement. . .

NPIG, there is no typical WS fog in your case. . . a well respected divorce lawyer and very well educated scientist who reads a ton of psychology, who seldom frequents here anymore, once stated that most divorce is over violence or mental disorders. . . and of the people i read here, most divorces have one person with a high probability of disorderedness. . . usually perpetuated or hushed up in the family of origin, lest the FOO must realize they themselves are in the same disordered world. . . .

never, ever marry into a family that is not similar to yours, or is more dysfunctional in any way. . . .

finally, since they have no feelings for others other than to have the child reflect back to them what they want to see and hear, do not expect anything to change. . . it is not the fog of an affair. . . deucey is disordered to show no remorse or cooperation with the legal system.

wiftty

Wifty,

You're right. Sociopathic tendencies and also narcissism. He'll never know he is so lost. And it is funny, but he was the one who claimed it was I who had the mental imbalance. Spin and blame. That is how I see it.

And you're right about having those around them to repeat, parrot back to them what they want to hear. His entire family is coming to stay at his house. His parents work for him, are on his payroll. And his dad did the same th ing to his mom many times now. And they do tell him what he wants to hear, or he will be a very unpleasant man to deal with. But when the foggy Deucey, or imbalanced Deucey is the one signing big commission checks to them, do you think they will ever go against him? Nope.

So I will probably go through the entire Christmas holiday with my former family about three miles away with no caring whatsoever if I exist. I don't actually care anymore though. I havent spoken to his mother since March of t his year. I don't want the disorder anymore.

Wifty, you'd have never known they were disfunctional. Very religious. Very seemingly family oriented. Only when you go very deep below the surfact can you see the utter disorder and lies. I didn't know for six years about them. And they still lie to their own daughter. She doesn't know her dad has almost left their mom at least three times for other women. She's a grown woman and doesn't know.

None of them want to see reality at all. None of them want to hear that they are truly messed up. I've quit trying at all. Sure hope they won't end up on my doorstep even one day. When his dad got caught, a few months later he got rebaptized at a large service at their church. Very outward and public "show" if you ask me.

This is why I don't think Deucey can change. He is pathologically impaired. His family is too. And they DO NOT WANT HELP. It's alot easier to say that their daughter in law didn't cook enough or clean enough or try to be a good enough friend to their son to justify his affairs and actions.

OK MORE MANIPULATION FROM DEUCEY...

Arrrrgh. Ok he has son. He calls me just now as I am about to leave work and says "why didn't you return my call Saturday night?" "I drove by your house and knocked on your door and you weren't home." Hmmmmm. I say. Then I ask if it was an emergency regarding our son. HE says no. I say what was it about. He says almost yelling "When I ask you for you to return a call you do it get it?" I again asked what it was about and what the supposed emergency was. He doesn't say. Then he goes on to say that "If you want me to treat you with respect you have to first treat me with respect." At this point I am angry. He says "If this ever comes up again, we'll see how you respond."

Whatever. I don't know what this means. Then he says he has son at work and that I can come by his office to come and pick him up. Sounds like Deucey wanted to make a little late night bootie call and I didn't respond the way he wanted me too. Or something else. I was right. IF it were about our son or if it were earth shattering, he would have left a message for me. He did not. Nope. Nada. Nothing.

He just makes me fume. I am getting ready to go and get my son. And deal with an arrogant man. Actually I will not deal with him at all. Just quietly get son and leave. That is it. If he has any dealings to do with me, he can do it properly during normal hours. And until he becomes a broken man, if possible, then I want nothing to do with him at all.

He is unstable. About power and control that's all. And I am not responding to it. He has lost the hold of control he once had over me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by notpeachyinga:
<strong>OK MORE MANIPULATION FROM DEUCEY...

Arrrrgh. He says almost yelling "When I ask you for you to return a call you do it get it?" I again asked what it was about and what the supposed emergency was. He doesn't say. Then he goes on to say that "If you want me to treat you with respect you have to first treat me with respect." At this point I am angry. He says "If this ever comes up again, we'll see how you respond."
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"So Duecey, BABY. Just what reaction are you wanting right now? Am I supposed to be SCARED or something? Chill with the demands for respect in a disrespectful manner. When you can control yourself and behave like an adult who wants to be treated as adult, you know the drill." CLICK

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: Sauron ]</small>

Peachy,

You are still engaging him, therefor he feels that he can do this. He still has you trapped in some way or you would not have listened to even this much of the beratement. The only recourse that I see is that you further limit speaking to him. He is trying to manipulate you, that is certain. He is scared because you are not as controlable as you once were, but he will continue these peripheral attempts at these mind games as long as they are effective.

My opinion is that you just hang up. Don't say a word. When he calls back screaming, you do the same thing. If you engage him in this sort of banter, he wins. If you allow him to manipulate you into being frightened or angry, then he wins. He wants to be able to prove to himself, and you, that he is still important in your life. Even though he does not want to be in your life any longer.

Send him a letter via your attourney stating that you will file harassment charges if he calls you at anytime after 8pm unless it is a 'Documentable Emergency'. There is nothing that is going on with your son that cannot wait until the next day unless it is an Emergency. This way, he will not have the 'freedom' to be checking up on you. And if you happen to like to see him squirm a bit, this will make him squirm all the more because he will not even have the opportunity to 'reach you' for some bogus interaction.

He WILL create issues in order to control the situation, such as not telling you something that you really should have known about, because it was after 8, but that will not last long. Even that type of thing will be his attempt at manipulation. He will be trying to show you how 'Wrong' you are by telling him when he can and cannot call you. He is getting what he wants out of your relationship still.

I hope that you have a Merry Christmas. Give your son a hug for me and tell him it is from a friend who cares about him. When you feel his arms about your neck, know that I care about you as well.

Merry Christmas

Practice it:

listen, listen, listen, CLICK!

again:

listen, listen, listen, CLICK!

again:

listen, listen, listen, CLICK!

the tricks that they try to use are exxageration and generalities, of time limited requirements, (birthday party invitations must be RSVPd within 15 seconds of receipt, even without any details) of not knowing the answer. the hallmark of emotional interaction and control.

and it will go on for years. . . just take lots of comfort in realizing that you are not alone, that lots of people get fooled because the secrets are hidden because of shame. . . also, we were alot more innocent than we used to be. . . now we have seen the darker side of life. . .

oh yeah, i battled the X yesterday because i disagreed with her reasons.
#1) she wants to do something for the kids because she had to wait for it growing up - she doesn't like waiting => perceived lower importance, impulsive, spoiled
#2) threats, i will take you to mediation about this (a christmas present!), is that what you want?
#3) exxageration => its terrible that all the other kids have them and our kids have to wait. . . this is horrible
#4) false agreement => ok, i agree with your reasoning, they have to earn it, and they have with a couple of good days last month. . . .
#5) bullsh!t => you know i don't believe in having the kids earn any privileges or things - they should just get them. . . . and no it does not generate entitlement feelings, that is way exxagerated.

THEY ARE ALL F!@#$%^&*() UP!

ah, the wonders of BS, of controlling, crazied narcissism, of FOO issues that are perpetuated. . . . of . . . . .

they hate it when you hang up on them also. . . drives them crazy. . . and as soon as i realize the childishness and disorderedness. . . .

CLICK!

good luck

wiftty