I've heard some women say that they would NOT want to be married in NAME only. And I agree.<P>Problem: What do you do if you are married already and you've read ALL the books and still feel married in name only. No romance, no fun, no companion, no support, no respect.<BR>Counseling has been tried and she has bailed out of that. She is just happy with my financial support and being around. <BR>It's an awful "rock" to be between.<BR>Comments?

Carl:<P>Have you stuck with the counseling, and are you exhibiting good marriage skills (Harley's "4 rules")? Would your wife agree?<P>I'd suggest that you get a couple appointments with Steve or Jenn Harley (888-639-1639), and discuss what you've worked on with them. They'll then want to talk to your wife, to get her perception on things.<P>If you've truly done an outstanding "plan A" in terms of identifying and meeting your wife's needs, protecting her from lovebusters, spending time with her, and being honest---then you should move to a separation.<P>But before you do that, you should really have your efforts assessed by an expert who isn't emotionally involved---that's why I suggest the Harley's counseling services.

yes BUT...Harley's time is $100 per hour<BR>and not covered by insurance.<P>Sound cold? Perhaps, but I'm not eager <BR>to fork out more money for something my <BR>heart isn't into anymore. I've been trying <BR>for 4-5 years. I "used" to care, but now have grown cold and distant.

Carl,<P>I hope this doesn't bore you too much....these are just my random thoughts your 2 post brought to mind....please keep in mind, I have a 2 y.o. boy running around me.<P>I would like to hear a bit more about your current situation. It sounds like you and I are about the same point emotionally with our respected marriages. Thought, I'm not sure if the the same or similar reasons have driven us to this point.<P>At this time, I feel very cold and distant towards my W.....I really try and I guess I'm a good actor bc recently she's been as happy as can be. She asked me the other night how I was feeling towards the marriage. I was honest and I feel that honesty hurt her bc she then feels like a failure or she feels like I'm saying things just to hurt her. I truly believe that she just doesn't comprehend the idea that I have EN's that are just as important as hers.<P>What I do know is that the place I am in now is very lonely....I feel guilt bc I know that my coldness and distance will make it even more difficult to allow my W to meet any of my needs. Even with these feelings, I have pretty much reached the point of not caring whether or not the marriage survives.<P>But, I am not ready to through in the towel, at least not right before the holidays. My marriage began pulling apart just a few months after the "I do's"; it took me 3.5 years to realize what was going on and now we are only 6 months away from the seventh year.<P>I would encourage you to just hang on for just one more day....some times, I hang on by the hour.....<P>I too have read, reflected and evaluated my marriage to death....I wish my W would put in a quarter, one fifth, one sixth of the effort I do....then I would hopefully have seen change....<P>Then again....as Karenna has told me so many times.....Nowhereman's taker is taking over again....<P>Even with these feelings; I am really trying to be a good husband and father. I guess I have developed some positive habits. Not to preach; but, I am hoping that my heart softens towards her and the marriage. I also, my cold, distant feelings are a defense to prevent farther emotional pain. Rationally know this helps me make it through the day...<P>Hang in There!<P>Scott

Scott, your words sound almost like my own too. I've been married for over 15 years and NEVER did get through those "first two" years they promise one you must get through and things will settle down. <sad smile><P>Essentially, in my 40's I have found myself NOW where I told myself I'd NEVER get to. That is, lonely and no more desire to make it right. I've tried and burned out. Actually, I've been trying for over 15 years to enjoy marriage and have never arrived. Her Love bank in me is seriously in the RED. Oh she's NOT a loser, but she is VERY into NOT doing/being what I "need", my 5 ENs. <P>All my relatives, friends and coworkers feel I have given her 100% + ! I have even given UP my friends and hobbies for her and now I am finding I regret that. I'd do things MUCH differnt if I knew that I'd have to live this kind of life....I haven't given up complete hope, else I'd be outa here....but it's gonna have to take a miracle of God to make the romantic love return. <P>Comments?<P>

This is more of a request for some male insight than anything else. When does a man just leave? My husband and I have been on an emotional roller coaster for the last 2 1/2 years. My husband has gone through phases where he tells me he loves me and wants to make our marriage and family work, and in the next phase, he feels as though he was married too young and he has too many pressures on him. I am confused, and every time I go to him, he is evasisve. I've asked him if it is another woman-he denies it. I found out he was talking to his ex-girlfriend after he told me he wasn't but he refuses to do anything to reassure me that he is not having an extramarital affair-claiming he is tired of trying to prove himself to me. <P>I've asked him to leave if he is to the point where he has to lie and cheat on me, and not want to do anything to make the marriage better. He attempted to leave once before, but came back, saying he loved me and couldn't walk out on our family. Can a man stay with his family out of financial convenience only? If a man is found to be cheating or has hard evidence pointing to cheating, will he continue to stay in the marriage and cheat until the spouse leaves? How does this work??

Carl,<P>You may want to join in the thread by 2dedicated on the emotional needs board here.<P>It is very much part of what we have been discussing.<P>2dedicated is in a very similar situation and both you and I.<P><BR>bmtbaby,<P>I'm going to think about your questions, I've been taking care of a sick 2 yo today and my parents just came into town to visit for the night. But, I will get back to you.<P>Also, you may find this post gets more responses on the general question II board.<p>[This message has been edited by nowhereman (edited December 08, 2000).]

Carl,<P>Shop for a divorce lawyer, and figure out how much that route is going to cost you. A grand or two on marriage counseling is pretty cheap in comparison---and you might not even need that much.<P>Here's something I find interesting:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>All my relatives, friends and coworkers feel I have given her 100% + ! I have even given UP my friends and hobbies for her and now I am finding I regret that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The problem is very likely that although you may have given 100% to your marriage (just like I did), you've been giving the WRONG 100%. You may be wasting your time trying to give your wife things she doesn't really need. If your wife hasn't responded to any of your efforts, you're either seriously misguided in where you've been giving, or she's the most selfish woman on the planet. While the latter is a possibility, often it's a misguided attempt to meet your spouse's emotional needs by working in areas that YOU find important.<P>The bottom line, Carl, is that it sounds like your wife isn't in love with you. And you're close to being out of love with her. That's why I recommend the counseling for you---Steve or Jenn can get you working on your marriage, using a plan that would probably take less than 6 months of your time. If it didn't work, separation would be next, followed (likely) by divorce. You would learn skills you may be lacking for a productive marriage. Your wife would have time to respond, first in an unpressured manner, and then in more of an final "it's serious" time. But this would be structured by professionals who would help you be successful.<P>It's pretty clear that you're a bright, articulate guy who does give a damn about your marriage. But you've been unsuccessful trying to work this out on your own. I'd strongly urge you to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you need some professional coaching and advice.<P>