This is my first time on here, and I'm not sure how to start. I am actually the spouse of one of you already on line, if that's breaking any rules I'm sorry, let me know.<P>I have been reading this forum for the last week or so, and have found it very informative. Unfortunately, my spouse seems to be in a different marriage to me, but I realise that she/he is only relating how they see our problem, and cannot possibly know my side. Some of you have given what sounds like good advise, but it doesn't apply to me. I've read some of the sections in the books too, and am at a loss to see where this applies in our circumstances. <BR>My question to start with is:<BR>How do we work at fixing our marriage when my spouse doesn't discuss any of this with me? <P>She/he is putting plan A into action on me, without talking to me about it, and it's driving me nuts. I am so confused about what I want..I don't even know if I want this marriage to work or not.<P><BR>

Welcome!<P>First, there is no rule to prohibit spouses from posting. Several couples do post...my H has never been interested in doing so, but does know my screen name & know he is welcome to read my posts. Most who do have an agreement that they can read each others, posts, but I've heard of some couples agreeing NOT to read each others posts if that turned out to cause conflict... so a lot depends upon what you & your spouse agree on.<P>Secondly, it is not uncommon to feel that you and your spouse are in a "different marriage"...you will have different viwepoints and perspectives. It is key to realize that both are entitled to their feelings. It can really help you understand his/her POV...<P>Third...Have you gone to the homepage of this site & read the Basic Concepts? That will help. As for how to get started working with your spouse...check out this article:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8114_plan.html" TARGET=_blank>www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8114_plan.html</A> <P>Good luck.<P>Kathi

okay, here's my beef! <BR>Last week my spouse took me out to eat and started to talk about our problems. I was a little confused by this approach but it was okay. we certainly got a lot said. BUT, then I came home later and found out that he was following advice given on the forum WORD FOR WORD. <BR>This makes me feel like he's not really working this through on his own, and has no real feel for what's going on. I'm actually quite upset about this and it has made me retreat somewhat from the position we had reached. <BR>Do I talk to him about this or wait to see what happens next?

Does my name give you a clue as to how the spouse who want to save the marriage acts? We are a "sad lot", but trust one thing---we love our spouses tremendously. Your spouse, I guess, was given a set of choices----and they chose to work on a marriage with you. The alternative was to say, "OK", cash in the chips and look for a new game. Although we trip and stumble a lot, try to look for the fundamental reason for their actions----be patient, and keep an open mind. God bless you on this challenge.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>BUT, then I came home later and found out that he was following advice given on the forum WORD FOR WORD. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Please remember, we all have tried to do it on our own and recognize that we have failed. To not want to screw up more is sometimes so intense that we will cling exactly to advise given so that perhaps as we get comfortable with it, we will be able to incorporate these new changes in us to last a lifetime. Please reconsider your anger and hurt. Sounds like your partner is trying to d o things differently and that you are valued as worthy of making those changes for.

I know the "word-for-word" approach seems a bit odd...not really "him", not romantic, not intuitive. But, it often is waht is needed for a while. You know, when you are trying to learn a new skill, you often do it "by the book", until you have the hang of it enough to improvise, embellish and generally add your own imprint to it.<P>Give him credit for trying...it is very hard at times. Don't worry that he is "following a formula"...that is a good way to start out in learning a new behavior. And, give him credit for caring & trying.<P><BR>Hugs--<P>Kathi<BR>

Welcome No Life:<P>I appreciate your extreme discretion and desire for anonymity. I admire that you have come here to work on your marriage.<P>"Some of you have given what sounds like good advise, but it doesn't apply to me. I've read some of the sections in the books too, and am at a loss to see where this applies in our circumstances."<P>Folks here are hampered by not knowing the whole story. Sometimes we jump in with advice because the question touches our hearts. I'm sorry if advice your spouse has received here hasn't been helpful.<P>But if he's Plan A'ing, he wants to improve things. And if he's learning it here, he's at least got a plan and support from people who believe in marriage and fidelity, commitment and God. That's the good news.<P>Wish my H would come here.<P>Are you and he able to counsel with the Harleys? Since you're following their principles, and are familiar with the books, you have head start. <P>Please don't become frustrated if advice given here is followed word for word. We are all floundering like shipwrecked people after our boat his hit the rocks. We turn to the success posts, for hope. We can't talk to our friends and family because we're protecting the privacy of our marriage.<P>Can you write your H a letter, asking him to talk to you about the books, the Plans, and work out something together, and maybe even set up telephone counseling with the Harleys?<P>To echo Kam, a lot of us feel we're not in the same marriages as our spouses. I expressed that same thing to my H. And as desperately confused said, we ARE a sad lot. (See shipwreck folks, above.) Sue B explained that we HAVE tried it on our own, but not successfully. We provide crutches to each other, and hopefully things will get better and we will drop out (like lostva) to spend our time continuing to work on our marriages.<P>This relationship stuff is tough. Here'a an analogy: I type 78 wpm. But back when I was learning to type, I had to spend hours doing it. It took years to build up skill. He's going to start improvising, and figuring out how to relate to you on his own, but first he's taking the baby steps, learning the placement of the fingers on the home row keys, and he's going to stumble a lot. We're going to cling to advice and catch-phrases in order to keep afloat.<P> Come back, okay?<BR> <P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess<p>[This message has been edited by Bellevue (edited December 18, 2000).]

Another source of information is <A HREF="http://www.weiner-davis.com." TARGET=_blank>www.weiner-davis.com.</A> She has a book called "Divorce Busting". I recommend you read the first chapter. It is about how divorce is NOT the answer to your problems. I think the first chapter may be on the web site. It's great you are here---it brings a sliver of hope to all of us. One other quick point to ponder, we, the spouse holding on, daily ride a roller coaster of emotions----one minute we have all of the confidence in the world we can do this----the next minute, our egg shell has crumbled. If they have been here for awhile, that by itself shows their determination----their actions may not be perfect, but the goal is immistakeable!

Hi there. I am also new here and am the WS in my marriage. have have read many of the posts here on MB and have gained some interesting insights into what the BS goes through, as well as learning more about myself into the process.<P>It is very hard to see each others sides in this situation as each can't imagine the hurt of the other person. I have seen many posts where the BS says that they are hurting and how can we possibly understand this hurt, and I can definately appreciate that, but on the other hand we the WS may also be hurting, not in the same way I guess but hurting just the same, and the BS cannot in most cases understand how that is possible. There is always both sides to a coin and only be dicussing and talking can we try to understand each others viewpoints. I am learning this slowly. All the best<P>Lizard<p>[This message has been edited by Lizard (edited December 18, 2000).]

I've been disappointed when my H sounds like he's repeating advice word-for-word. I wanted it to <I>sound</I> sincere. I now wish I hadn't been so tough on him. I actually hampered our progress further by not letting him learn a new skill slowly!<P>Ah well...live and learn. <P>Welcome to the forum. My H posts occasionally and I encourage him. He's very aware I post here--didn't like it at first and oftentimes doesn't appreciate my openness about private things with others, but I think he notices an improvement too.<P>Feel free to post your side of the story. Nobody plays favorites here. It's all about learning to make our marriages the best they can be!<P>Laura

Thank you all for your interest and advice. I haven't been on here long, just a few days, and this will be the last posting from me. I've realised that me coming to the forum is the same for my husband as it is for me when he reads my email. We are all supposed to have some privacy in our lives,not that I have any, and he needs to be able to come here in some safety, able to talk in peace. <P>I would explain a little .<P>We have been married over 20 years, together for 7 more before that. We have moved around a few times, by mutual choice I think, but have lived where we are now for 10 years. We have 3 kids and don't see our families and old friends very often because of distance. (3000 miles). I think we've always been quite happy, until about 4/5 years ago when things started to change. My H started staying away from the house more. Our 3rd child has never been easy to deal with and I think that contributed. i tried talking to him about it but he always got mad or defensive and walked away. (My H is not a great communicator of personal things at the best of times) .Over the period of a few years he pulled further and further away from us. Every day he would have to 'go to work' for an hour even on holidays.He made business trips on the other side of the country and the world without us, but he's always done that so that wasn't unusual, except now it's more often. I gave up going back to school, which was always a vague promise from when he went thru university (twice), because i couldn't handle working, looking after the house and family, and going to school too. I had to quit work too for a while, but I'm back part time again. Over time I've built up a wall, a barrier against emotion, so as not to get hurt anymore. Now he's plan A'ing me and I can't break down that barrier, because it won't last and I'll just get hurt again.<P>I've come to realise that I have 3 options from now on:<P>1) leave<P>2) go back to how things were before my EA, which wasn't really an EA but maybe it was.<P>3) suicide.<P>I've already taken option 2, temporarily, because this close to Christmas I can't hurt my kids any more than they need to be. My H thinks his plan Aing is working, but i"m numb inside.<BR>Option 3 won't work because I've tried it before ( I even tried last night with pills), but I'm so stupid I can't take enough. (I have a problem swallowing medication at the best of times let alone a pot full of them)AND<BR>I'm not a very brave person which I think you have to be to commit suicide.<P>I didn't tell you all that has happened and I apologise for the length of this.I'm really getting it off my chest before I say goodbye.<P><BR>This summer I had 2 emergencies when it was thought I was having a stroke. (H was out of the country at the time). I decided then that I needed a break. H wasn't keen but I booked myself to go home on vacation ON MY OWN for the first time ever.I had a great time, just hanging with my sister, my Mom, and catching up with old friends. I know now why H didn't want me to go, i realised what my life had become over the years. For the first time in I don't know how long, I had fun, I laughed, I was me (not just his wife or the kids mom)Then I met up with an old male friend, who was always my confidante and a good listener, and nothing had changed. I was able to spill my guts,and he never offered advice just listened which is what I needed. I came back reluctantly,and that's when it started. I was accused of all kinds of stuff. H didn't like what he saw when I came back. I guess it was obvious I had been happy, and the more I told about my vacation the worse it got. Meanwhile my friend and I had exchanged email address's and were writing every day. How much we had enjoyed seeing each other, catching up on old times, and how much we missed each other now. Yes, I can hear you all saying that's an AE. I agree in hindsight. That brings you up to date, except to say H didn't do anything about our marriage until after I came back from vacation and I suppose he thought he might lose me.<P>Now I have no email, no money, and no privacy. He watches me and touches me all the time. I can't even watch what I want on Tv or listen to music because he might 'read something in to it'. I'm being good, and just doing what he wants. Wish me luck, but I will decide after Christmas whether to take option 1 or 2 in the end. <P>Again, if you've made it this far, I thank you all for putting up with me. And say Goodbye.<BR>

Hope you pop back by and read this....there are other options!!!<P>My suggestion is that you consider marriage counseling. Even if he will not go, consider trying marriage coaching for you...often a relcutant spouse can end up being brought into it at some point by a skilled counselor. Many people here have had good luck with the phone counseling available at MB (Click on the "counsel" link at the top of the page.)<P>You deserve a better marriage than you have, and you can get there...<P>Hang in there!<P>Kathi

Kathi, thanks for the advice. Actually, it's me that has the problem now. I've got myself some attitude. My husband is doing everything he can to 'save' our marriage. But it's me that's having a problem with it. I really am uncomfortable here, and am looking for ways out.<BR>

Give yourself and him time. Don't concentrate on breaking down the wall. Pull a brick out or widen a crack here or there. Peer over it and see if you like what you see. If you need space, don't be afraid to tell him. <P>If you see something you like, praise it. If it's too much for right now, be forthright that it's the right thing, but not yet the right moment. <P>Good luck.

I'm back.<BR>thanks everyone for advice. I had a breakthrough today and I'll come back soon to tell you how it's going.<BR>

Hi No Life,<P>I understand how you feel - I almost felt like a different person when my emotional needs were not being met with my spouse and then I "break out" of normal married life and interact with others outside of my marriage. I was almost amazaed to find that I could have a great time - without my spouse. I realized that his objections to my behavior in his presence was inhibiting me from truly enjoying myself.<P>In retrospect, his tyrant attitude in the early years - jealousy - even one time he went to a girlfriend and talked with her and told her not to contact me again. I even allowed it! ee gads.<P>I realized that this was a control thing - he had been hurt in his first marriage from infidelity ( no he was no saint either ) and he was trying to put a fence around me so that it wouldn't happen to him again.<P>Now I realize that his control problem is HIS problem. I still enjoy myself better when Hubby isn't around - but I am also enjoying my time alone with him more now, also. <P>Separating the issues - control problem vs. him meeting my emotional needs - brings some sort of balance that I can live with. He is meeting most of my emotional needs more often now, so I am able to enjoy our one on one time.<P>Have you taken an emotional needs inventory? If your spouse is plan a'ing, then your spouse wants to meet your emotional needs. Maybe your spouse doesn't know which are the most important emotional needs you need met? If at least you and your spouse could get to common ground on that issue, it might make life a little easier for you.<P>TNT

I'm back to tell the tale,<P>Last Thursday morning was a changing point. I got up as usual, took the kids to school, came home, made coffee, went on line.( to the Oprah site actually) I found a real jerk and told him off in no uncertain terms, which made me feel a bit better. Then suddenly I 'lost it'. I found myself driving aimlessly around town, determined to put an end to this mess once and for all. That wall sure looked good!<BR>Something inside me made me call a friend on the cell phone. She told me to park, and she came and got me. I was a real mess, but she drove me a round for 1 1/2 hours. We talked ,and talked, and talked. Actually she talked..I rambled. When I'd calmed down some, we fetched her husband and took him for a pub lunch, where we talked a little more. After that I went to find my husband, because at some time that morning my emotional barrier ,that I'd had up for some years, came down, and all I wanted to do was hold him,and tell him I loved him, and that I was better.<P>He was a bit suprised to say the least. We didn't get much sleep for 2 nights because we just wanted to hug and be together. It's like it was 5 - 10 years ago before everything started to go wrong.<P>My husband lost his 'faith' 10 years ago when our daughter died at birth, but I knew the 'Lord' was still there somewhere. I see 'His' hand in this somewhere, and I'm glad I didn't turn away from 'Him' completely. (I just kept hoping HE would help me make the right decisions). Now, I've always said we have control over our own lives, but deep down I guess I never lost my childhood faith that GOD would be there for me in times of real trouble.<P>I hope this lasts.<P>I'll come back and let you know how we're doing.

Hi everybody that might look here,<P>Everything is still going great. I have my down days but soon buck up, and get back to the right way of how I think I should be. One of the hardest parts is not losing my identity again. It would be so easy sometimes to slip back to being just mom and wife, but then I feel like I'm drowning and pull myself out of it again.<BR>My H has also found more independance out of all this and hopefully we've found our way back to a happy and healthy marriage that will last for another 21 years.<P>There are only good things coming out of all this...even our kids are getting better.<P>For the time being LIFE IS GREAT.<BR>