WH and I have been separated since May '02. I had hopes of reconciliation until about October '02, but WH seemed fine with the way things were and wasn't pursuing IC and a few other things I needed in order to start recovery.

By the time WH came around and started "seeing the light", my love bank had gone bankrupt and hung the "closed for business" sign. In fact the windows are boarded up and demolition is scheduled in the near future.

WH had interviews yesterday and we met for lunch. He said he wanted his wedding band back (he had given it to me a month ago in anger) so he could continue to be faithful to his vows.

My thoughts are... he was never faithful to his vows when it mattered... why should he start now when we're divorcing. He said he will wear it until the dv is final (or he's served).

My feelings are that it's a slap in my face for him to wear it now!

Is it wrong for me not to return the ring or to return the ring and ask that he not wear it?

Thoughts ~ comments please!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I don't know if there is a right or wrong, but if he gave it back to you, then you are not obligated to return it.

I do not think it would make sense to give it back, while asking him not to wear it.

- Tom

F2bm-

Please keep the ring if it makes you feel uncomfortable...I returned not out of anger, rather it was returned because I was baptized into Christ on 12/12 and returned it believing it was a symbol of things of OLD...see 2 Cor 5:17-19. After consulting with the man who baptized me, he suggested I ask for it back as my M is not something of old, but IT has been renewed in ME thru Christ Jesus...made sense and that's why I have asked for it back! No other reason...especially out of anger <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Also, you point out that your bank WAS closed in OCT...what happen during the time we made "love" in Nov. and I asked you if it was still open and you said YES...I recognize your confusion and furthermore accept your decision to NOT return the ring.

God's Blessings, f2bm!

In his Precious Name!
<><

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 08:12 AM: Message edited by: catch22222 ]</small>

Hmmmmmm,

I am inclined to think of it as a laurel branch. Give it back to him. It may make all the difference in the future.

Love and light,

Jacky

Goodmorning Free2beme
Can you share an email address I can email you at?
f4u

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faith4us:
<strong>Goodmorning Free2beme
Can you share an email address I can email you at?
f4u</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">August0128@aol.com

Free.....check your email if you can ......I will watch for your reply
thanks
f4u

Return the ring. Your LB may be closed but give some more time before ending it totally. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless you two.

Hey, we'ere on MB and we can use more principles here. Put them into action.

See if he's changed. Go on a week long cruise together. Find out. You'll never know until you try.

And remember, changing is more than a public act of faith. it is how you live privately. You don't need to do a complete 180 in your life, just learn to respect the vows of marriage and appreciate all that is your wife.

Finding God is awesome. Just live life with faith now and still have the fun together.

Can you two try? I'd love to see this happen. Am praying for you both.

We will give you both support and tough love when needed ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks peachy-

I would love nothing more than for my W to give me a chance...I KNOW I have changed but I'm not sure she is willing to SEE that...I pray she would let me back in her life!

In Christ's Name!
<><

Why on earth would you want the ring, Free2? What are you going to do with it? I suppose you could sell it, but if it's the traditional gold band, then I don't imagine you'd get all that much for it.

And if your relationship is over, why on earth do you care what your WH does with the ring?

I admit that I'm unclear about the symbolism of the wedding ring. Yes, I know, a typical wedding service includes a description something like this one: "the wedding ring is a symbol of marriage in at least two ways; the purity of Gold symbolizes the purity of your love for each other, and the unending circle symbolizes the unending vows which you are taking, which may be broken honorably in the sight of God only by death." What I'm not clear on is which ring is supposed to serve as a reminder of my vows, and which is supposed to serve as a reminder of my spouse's vows.

Since the ring I wear was given to me by my (ex-)wife, it seems reasonable to conclude that it should represent her (broken) vows, and that it has therefore become a constantly-worn reminder of her faithlessness. On the other hand, since I don't have (and never did have) any control over what she did, it seems more useful to view my ring as a reminder of my own vows, and how important it is to me that I remain faithful.

What I'm trying to suggest is that, although the general significance of the wedding ring is pretty universal, the message it conveys may be much more personal, and I believe that its primary purpose is to speak to the person who actually wears the ring.

Sure, it also serves as a convenient signpost to prowling members of the opposite sex, but I don't think that's its true purpose.

And I don't see how it is ever helpful to view the wearing of a wedding ring as an offense. Even when worn in the midst of anti-marital behavior, it serves as a tangible testament to the wearer's hypocrisy.

Hi Catch...sorry about the dog...I know that hurt...just want to offer you hope...You know the change (in you)must be unbelieveable....wow and like you said in an earlier post, you wish so much you could share this with your wife but NC was the rule pretty much for now. She will need time to take a look....a long hard look at you. I hope she gives you the ring back. Surely she hasnt closed the door completely. Be your best....and hope she sees who you are now....
f4u

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by faith4us:
<strong>Hi Catch...sorry about the dog...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I should clarify that my FIRST exH (not catch22222) killed the babysitter's dog. Catch and I have only been married 2+ years (no kids between us) and I was previously married for 5 years to the father of my 2 boys.

Sorry for the confusion.

I will respond to everyone later... my internet here at work is up and down. I do appreciate seeing all the responses.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

P.S... trying to get to my AOL account via the web but can't seem to open it. I'll keep trying.

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 12:42 PM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>

faith4us,

I can't get the email... I will get it when I go home and reply then.

Thanks!

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>

Good morning, all, and thank you for the replies. I would like to address the responses now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not think it would make sense to give it back, while asking him not to wear it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this, Tom.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I returned not out of anger, rather it was returned because I was baptized into Christ on 12/12 and returned it believing it was a symbol of things of OLD</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">catch, You never mentioned this when you returned it rather you left here rather in a defensive mood after I defended the SG I was seeing when you called him something other than his name. Again, you never mentioned the ring being part of the old... you left, drove around the block (after our exchange about SG) and came back and gave me the ring. You never mentioned anything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, you point out that your bank WAS closed in OCT...what happen during the time we made "love" in Nov. and I asked you if it was still open and you said YES...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">catch, I didn't want to hurt your feelings and upset you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am inclined to think of it as a laurel branch. Give it back to him. It may make all the difference in the future.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nina too, this is something I need to ponder more. I think it would make sense if we were still considering reconciling but we're not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Return the ring. Your LB may be closed but give some more time before ending it totally</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">notpeachy, When I first read this I thought you were talking about a love buster of mine and I was very confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Now I see what you were saying.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See if he's changed. Go on a week long cruise together. Find out. You'll never know until you try.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really hope and pray that catch can sustain these changes for the duration of his life. catch has always had some awesome qualities (or I wouldn't have fallen in love with him), but to spend any length of time with him just won't happen. Every woman is a threat to me when I am with catch. When we are in NC I am relaxed and happy, when I talk with catch or see him, the nightmares start again and I go back to my unhealthy habits of wondering what he's doing and who he's doing and my mind thinks about ways to catch him slipping. It's not healthy for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why on earth would you want the ring, Free2? What are you going to do with it? I suppose you could sell it, but if it's the traditional gold band, then I don't imagine you'd get all that much for it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GDP, Thoughts of selling it never crossed my mind as I know it didn't cost much. Catch gave me the ring in anger (regardless of what he wants all to believe here).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And if your relationship is over, why on earth do you care what your WH does with the ring?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My reasoning is that he never honored our marrage from the get go and the ring meant nothing to him. Now with his ritiousness he wants to play the part of the faithful husband.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I don't see how it is ever helpful to view the wearing of a wedding ring as an offense. Even when worn in the midst of anti-marital behavior, it serves as a tangible testament to the wearer's hypocrisy.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still have a very hard time with catch appearing to be something he never was. I had to suffer in silence when catch was in the throes of his SA/infidelities and now he is able to toss around a few bible verses, claim he's confessed to our Father and was forgiven, and he lives a happy life. I feel as though I'm the bad guy because I refuse to reconcile. This is a hard pill to swallow!

catch seems to be amazed that I could still have so much anger towards him. Yet, for the 3 years of our marriage he did nothing to make this marriage work. But he would claim to be a Christian and remain active in our church's lay ministry as well as teach Sunday school. I just can't believe his being born again as anything other than more eye wash (I pray that it's not, but let's see where catch is in 5 years).

Thanks for the thought provoking responses!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Free2BMe ]</small>

catch seems to be amazed that I could still have so much anger towards him. Yet, for the 3 years of our marriage he did nothing to make this marriage work. But he would claim to be a Christian and remain active in our church's lay ministry as well as teach Sunday school. I just can't believe his being born again as anything other than more eye wash (I pray that it's not, but let's see where catch is in 5 years).

I'm NOT at all amazed by anything about you f2bm- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...honest(believe it or not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )...your cynicism and bitterness resounds here and I only ask God to FORGIVE you for that! Although you ARE entitled to YOUR feelings!

After Thursday (01/09/02) and for everyday thereafter...until death do I part will YOU even KNOW WHERE CATCH WILL BE, let alone five years from NOW!

You do NOT need to read threads that are NOT of interest or addressed specifically to YOU...AS I stay away from personalized posts...I accept an implicit sense of privacy to an otherwise public domain.

Blessings for a healthy LIFE to you and boys, f2bm! Regards to S & M!

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: catch22222 ]</small>

deleted

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: martes36 ]</small>

deleted-multiples

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: martes36 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by catch22222:
<strong>I'm NOT at all amazed by anything about you f2bm- <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...honest(believe it or not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )...your cynicism and bitterness resounds here and I only ask God to FORGIVE you for that! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think I can let this post go by without comment. What a disrespectful judgment, catch2222. I've been on these boards since Free2Bme began posting, under her first user name. I have witnessed all the hurt she has suffered from your multiple transgressions, even before your wedding. It pains me no end to see what she's going through now.

And you have the nerve to call her bitter and cynical? I personally don't see it in her posts--I think she is angry and frustrated with good reason. But if she was bitter or cynical, don't you think you might have had something to do with that? And then YOU ask God to forgive HER? The height of arrogance, but so safely cloaked in pretty words of your new-found faith. And now she feels she needs to leave the boards. I can't say I blame her--in her position I'd probably do the same.

I will not question your recommitment to your walk with God. I truly hope that it's sincere, and lasting. But I will say that for you to put the onus on Free, and speak as if SHE is the reason for your divorce, is extremely unfair. If you've truly changed, then show your faith by your works, not your words. Despite all the mention of God and Jesus in your posts, I don't hear true Christ-like humility. Realize that with all the damage you did, it would take any reasonable person months if not years to believe in the sincerity of those changes.

And Free, I hope I haven't stepped over any line, and I hope this doesn't offend you. If it does, say the word and I'll delete.

Martes

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: martes36 ]</small>

Martes .... exactly!!!

Reeks pridefulness NOT humility .....

I had to censor the rest of my remarks ... too angry Grrrrrr

ditto pepper and martes, catchs posts give me the willy's.