My DH and I divorced almost 5 years ago. Ours was an international marriage and I had to move to his country when we got married. Our marriage lasted almost 3 years, but the culture shock, environment and pressure from his family were too much for me to take. I was so young then (20 when we married and 23 when I left) and just fell apart from the pressure, but he did not want to let go of our marriage. As a result, we waited for another 2 years before meeting up to sign the divorce papers. We cried so much after signing the papers.

A year after our divorce, he called to tell me he was going to remarry to this woman he had been introduced too. They got married on the 100th day of their meeting, because he needed to desperately forget me, and thus believed that marrying, having a family and kids would let himself forget me.

We have not had any contact or news of each other since his last phone call. Two months ago, for the first time in 4 years, I got hold of him on the phone. We have since had a couple long phone conversations. I am able to gather from what he tells me that I am constantly in his mind. He remembers me in everything he does and everywhere he goes with his family, but of course, he is not able to tell anyone ... all this while he and I had no contact whatsoever over the years.

I was taken aback by his revelations. I had thought that he would be happy with his new life. As for me, I had been in several relationships since the divorce, but never found anyone I really felt a strong enough bond with. I never found anyone I really loved that I would spend my life with, and never found anyone whom I felt really loved me.

I don't know what to do. Friends around me don't want me and him to ever meet up again because of the fact that we still love each other. I asked him why is it that time and distance have not taken away our love for each other, and he told me that we did not divorce because we had stopped loving each other, so these feelings and memories would still be there 20 or 30 years down the road.

People around me are terrified that we will get involved if we meet up agin. It is very painful because he now has 2 kids. I know this is a really sad and unfair situation for his W, but does that mean he has to stay in his marriage for the kids, even if he does not really love his W? I have been his W before, so I can understand the situation she is in. I had hoped to start a family with him ...

Is it so wrong if he and I were to get back together again? What if he leaves his family to come back to me? If he and I still love each other despite the divorce and after so many years apart, is it so wrong that we pursue our love?

I wonder how many people out there have divorced their spouses, moved on to other people, and still returned to their first spouses because they are still in love ....

Please help...

Sirena -
No, no, and no. Do not meet up with your XH.

Sorry, I know this isn't what you want to hear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But you have to face it - your XH does have a new family, a new wife, kids. They depend upon him and trust him to be there forever. Do you really want to be the cause of destroying their marriage, tearing apart his family, causing those children such pain? And how would you feel about a man who would do that to his trusting wife and children? Could you honestly fully trust him again?

That old cliche "you've made your bed, now you have to lie in it" holds doubly true for you and your XH because of the new ties and relationships that have resulted since your divorce.

I'm so sorry for you. I know how it must be tearing you up. My XH & I also married too young, faced too many problems against us, and finally divorced after 7 years. Like you, I loved my XH for many many years afterwards, even after he re-married and had 2 children. So I do understand what you're going through. Luckily I was never faced with the quandary you are. I hope I would have been strong enough to walk away but I'm afraid I'd be tempted like you. All I can do is tell you what you & I both know is the right thing to do.

Sirena, trust me, you will find someone else. I thought there was no way I could ever find another man who understood me as well as he did or who was so compatible or liked everything I did. But you know what? It took 10 years but I eventually did. And not only that, this new person was so much better in so many ways. There is hope - you have to believe that.

Thanks SB94 for sharing your story. Can you tell me how you got over your XH? How did you achieve closure? What can you do to make the pain go away? How did you get him out of your heart, so that you have space there for someone new? Yes, this is tearing me up. It is very painful and I hurt so much.

Oh, Sirena, I know - it does hurt so much. And the worst part is when you think you've finally gotten over him and then you get hit by how much you love him all over again. Two steps forward, one step back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Can you tell me how you got over your XH? How did you achieve closure? What can you do to make the pain go away? How did you get him out of your heart, so that you have space there for someone new? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just kept on living. Some days I didn't much want to. But I forced myself to find a life outside of XH, with friends & family & work & even other men. Even though I couldn't feel anything for so many years.

The hard truth is, Sirena, there is no magic cure. Only time. And I don't know how you can speed up the process of letting your XH go. For me, it took 5 long years, with many failed relationships along the way & years of feeling dead inside. All I know is that eventually I did get over him completely. And I've recovered my ability to love and to feel again.

Looking back on that period now, I realize I didn't have close friends to talk to, and there was certainly nothing like this Forum where I could get support from people who were experiencing what I was. And God forbid I should ever go to counseling - that would have been a real sign of weakness! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I think if I had found others to talk to, I would have gotten over my XH much sooner.

I say that because, you see, right now I'm going through yet another Dv and feeling that same pain again. I don't know how I'm ever going to get over my stbXH - I thought he was my last chance at happiness in this lifetime. But now I do have some very close friends, because I've finally learned to reach out and ask for help from others. And likewise I've found some excellent support here on this Forum, people I can talk to and get advice. Because of that I feel like I'm recovering so much more quickly than I would otherwise, and certainly faster than I did during my first Dv.

I think knowing that others have gone through the same thing as you, and that they understand you, and that they truly do care and want to help. I think that is the best healer of all.

One way to help get over XH is to stop contacting him and emotionally interacting with each other. He belongs to someone else and you have to fight the feelings of wanting him. I still love my H but I fight the feelings of missing him cause there is no hope. I will not get on the merry-go-round again and I strongly advise you to fight the feelings that will bring so many so much pain yourself included.

TW

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SH94:
<strong>And the worst part is when you think you've finally gotten over him and then you get hit by how much you love him all over again. Two steps forward, one step back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </strong>[QUOTE]

SH94 - Sigh... That is exactly what I am going through now. I thought I have been over the pain and hurt long ago right after we signed the papers, but I can't believe I am still feeling the pain. The worst thing is these feelings now are even stronger than what I remember going through immediately after the D and the months after that.

I have taken 5 long years too. I did not give myself a chance to grieve over my D. Like you, I forced myself to find a life that did not remind me of him. When I left him, I moved out of his country and never returned since. Everything that happened to me afterwards was completely new and I couldn't even bear to look at any photographs or anything that reminded me of him. Yes, I met other men, hoping that the initial attraction would develop into a strong love bonding ... the way I had felt with my XH, but because I never felt those strong emotions again, my relationships didn't last. Maybe I am numb and empty inside although I look great on the outside. I couldn't even talk to my family about my pain at that time, not even to close friends... They thought that since things didn't work out and we chose to D, it shouldn't be painful at all.

How much longer will it take? It's been 5 years already. I am longer as young as I was when I was married to XH, but have matured now. I know I would not have chosen those decisions if I was mature enough to think back then, but I can't go back to redo the past. There was no abuse or infidelity, so I can never have any negative feelings towards my XH.

Yes, I too realize that I didn't have close friends to talk to. I didn't know about this Forum too. I don't see counselling as a real sign of weakness like you do, but now I really believe that all efforts should be made to save a marriage and that divorce should only be the last resort when everything has failed.

I can't help thinking that life teaches harsh lessons. One is supposed to learn from each experience and gained much more after the healing, but why the pain?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SH94:
<strong>Sirena -
No, no, and no. Do not meet up with your XH.

Sorry, I know this isn't what you want to hear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

But you have to face it - your XH does have a new family, a new wife, kids. They depend upon him and trust him to be there forever. Do you really want to be the cause of destroying their marriage, tearing apart his family, causing those children such pain? And how would you feel about a man who would do that to his trusting wife and children? Could you honestly fully trust him again?

That old cliche "you've made your bed, now you have to lie in it" holds doubly true for you and your XH because of the new ties and relationships that have resulted since your divorce.

I'm so sorry for you. I know how it must be tearing you up. My XH & I also married too young, faced too many problems against us, and finally divorced after 7 years. Like you, I loved my XH for many many years afterwards, even after he re-married and had 2 children. So I do understand what you're going through. Luckily I was never faced with the quandary you are. I hope I would have been strong enough to walk away but I'm afraid I'd be tempted like you. All I can do is tell you what you & I both know is the right thing to do.

Sirena, trust me, you will find someone else. I thought there was no way I could ever find another man who understood me as well as he did or who was so compatible or liked everything I did. But you know what? It took 10 years but I eventually did. And not only that, this new person was so much better in so many ways. There is hope - you have to believe that.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SH94:
[QB]Sirena -
I have been divorced from my ex-h for just over 8-years now. I dated others also, but nothing seemed right. When we were divorcing, it was a big mess, especially since we had a baby to consider(a new born). He never re married, niether did I. I almost married another, but I was struggling to get my licence for nursing and did not want to commit to anything until I got it. Now he has been out of the picture for over a year and my ex and I are engaged again. If your ex had really loved you, he should have stuck by you and defended you. I am just learning that that is what spouses are supposed to do.(stick up for their loved ones, even to their families. God said for us to cleave unto our spouses and he could not do that, and he does not love you as much as he led you to believe, sorry to say that, but there really IS someone else out there for you and only God knows where he is right now.

Sirena -
Do you believe that you made the wrong decision to divorce your husband? Are you beating yourself up over that now, consciously or not? Is that why it's so hard to forget him and find a new life? Because you regret your decision & realize you could have done more to make your M work?

It's so different for those of us who left physically abusive or adulterous husbands. Because then there's a real reason to divorce. And afterwards we can eventually turn those bad memories into anger and hate and justification.

You're in a different situation, and I feel so bad for you. It must be awfully hard to look back on your M and realize that, with a little maturity on both sides and a lot of hard work, you might have been able to salvage it. Regret is the most difficult part to overcome in the whole healing process. And maybe that's why I worked so hard to save my M, despite my stbXH's adultery - because I didn't want that regret eating at me later on. I knew from a previous Dv what regret could do.

The really bad part is that now you've had a ray of hope - you can see a possible way of setting that decision right. But you know, deep inside, that you can't do what it takes. You can't break up your XH's new M just to make things good for yourself.

I wish there was something I could say or some advice I could give to somehow ease your pain. Especially since this past week has been so good for me, and I feel back on top of the world. I'm so full of optimism, and I want to share it with everyone here. And you know what? I don't know why!! Nothing's changed from the past few weeks to this. Yet ever since the first of the year, I have been so consumed with grief that I could barely get out of bed. Now, all of sudden, this week I'm my old self.

Looking back, I think one thing that happened this past week was I started spending a lot of time with my closest friends. I saw so much evidence this past week that they really care for me. And I can make a life for myself without my stbXH. I really believe that filling that empty spot left by your H with something else - family, friends, activities - is the only way to get over the pain. I know you've tried that, but maybe you should try to get even closer to your friends. Share your pain, share the good times & the bad with them.

Just some thoughts... I don't know what your situation is, and I'm making wild guesses based on my own experiences and hoping something might click.

<small>[ January 16, 2003, 05:42 AM: Message edited by: SH94 ]</small>

Sirena-

What you're going through is GRIEF. Grief by definition is the conflicting feelings caused by the end of or change in a familiar pattern of behavior.

Conflicting feelings means you may feel a genuine sense of freedom and at the same time you may feel afraid that you will never "find someone as wonderful". These conflicting feelings are a natural response to loss.

There is someone waiting at the end of this process...open your heart to the possibilities...InGODSPEED!

S

Be strong Sirena, I went through what you are now, and it takes time - sometimes a lot of time but you do meet others and move on. Try and focus on moving on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SH94:
<strong>Sirena -
Do you believe that you made the wrong decision to divorce your husband? Are you beating yourself up over that now, consciously or not? Is that why it's so hard to forget him and find a new life? Because you regret your decision & realize you could have done more to make your M work?

You're in a different situation, and I feel so bad for you. It must be awfully hard to look back on your M and realize that, with a little maturity on both sides and a lot of hard work, you might have been able to salvage it.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really appreciate all your replies and support on my situation. To SH94: Yes I believe I made the wrong decision in divorcing my H. I remember when we were signing the papers, there was this voice inside me urging me to say "no" but I was just too scared too lost and thought that I had to get it over with. Little did I know that the pain was just beginning.

I admit that I am beating myself up, whether consciously or not. It's not as if I haven't tried to forget him or to get a new life. I have, but things didn't work out. He chose to remarry because he thought that having a new W and family would make it easier for him to forget me. I have not remarried because I want to be sure I am marrying for the right reasons. I want to be able to love someone completely and be loved back equally before I will consider marriage again. You know what, I don't blame him for remarrying. In his culture, that is expected of him, but of course, I can't help feeling sad that if only he hadn't, we would still have a chance together, even now many years later, since the feelings haven't died.

After my D, I went out to do all the things that I wasn't allowed to do when I was married to him. I spent a good 2 years partying and enjoying night life. I even picked up professional dancing. I thought I was doing okay, but one day when I got a break from all that hectic stuff, I realized how empty I felt inside.

It hurts so much because yes like you said, with a little maturity and a lot of hard work, we could have salvaged our M. Yes I strongly believe that. But we didn't have any resources at that time - didn't know about MB, didn't know there was counseling available, didn't check the Internet for information on D. Who was to know that D would be so much more painful than staying together?

I look around and see so many couples fighting to stay in a marriage. I see so much infidelity, abuse, lies, etc. One of my closest friends is staying in a M with an abusive H who has strangled her, kicked her in the stomach and she has gone to the cops at least a couple of times. Yet she pleads with him not to divorce her. He and I never had these problems. We had each other, but that didn't seem enough at that time. Should I have given him enough warning before I just gave up and left one day? I don't know I was a scared young woman at that time. Imagine having burned yourself while ironing the laundry, you just don't want to go anywhere near the iron, not even the ironing board for a long time.

The worst thing is while he and I have both "moved on" (even superficially), we have been thinking a lot about each other. It is a mutual feeling we both share, even the terrible regret that we gave up on a wonderful thing too easily. I thought he would be happy now that he has a family, but he said that he felt so empty inside. He says that he isn't happy and is just living life (if you know what I mean). I don't want to judge him and I hope you don't either, because being married and having kids is expected what his society expects of him, and he is just human.

I hurt so much because I feel this is such a tragedy. He and I are having such miserable lives after the D. My friends tell me I am lucky because I have experienced true love like this, love that transcends time and distance. I don't know whether this is a blessing or a curse. Maybe I am stubborn, fatalistic or just depressed and refusing to get myself out of this. Nothing makes sense anymore.

Shakespeare,

Yes I do realize that I am going through grief. What baffles me is why am I going through this a second time when I thought I had already been through this and have since healed? Having experienced all this pain and hurt from a D, I would really not want anyone to resort to a D unless it is absolutely necessary and they are ready to face all this pain and hurt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by Sirena: What baffles me is why am I going through this a second time when I thought I had already been through this and have since healed? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because you haven't healed. You know that the divorce was a mistake. And now you see that there's a way to rectify that mistake. I would be very surprised if you hadn't reacted as you are now.

Instead of wondering why you're hurting, turn your question around and ask yourself, "Why shouldn't I be feeling this pain again?? My XH & I had a perfect M, yet we abandoned it because of a few problems. Now I discover my XH is still in love with me. And I'm having to give him up all over again." No wonder you are hurting so much more now. You have come to realize what you lost by divorcing your H. And by walking away from this opportunity with your XH, you're having to re-live your divorce all over again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Posted by Sirena: I hurt so much because I feel this is such a tragedy. He and I are having such miserable lives after the D. My friends tell me I am lucky because I have experienced true love like this, love that transcends time and distance. I don't know whether this is a blessing or a curse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, Sirena, I know what you mean. I too look back and think it's a curse for having loved so much. Because now that I've lost it, I'm so afraid I'll never find it again. A tragedy? That's exactly the word I use to describe my own situation with my stbXH. True love lost, because of immaturity, selfishness, ignorance. It's so sad, isn't it? Just thinking about it makes me want to cry.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Maybe I am stubborn, fatalistic or just depressed and refusing to get myself out of this. Nothing makes sense anymore.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, when things like this happen, nothing makes sense. I am fatalistic though, because I believe something better will come along - I believe that if you live life right, then everything happens for a purpose and you'll be rewarded eventually.

I keep thinking back to my 2nd M, and how I screwed that up so badly, and how I beat myself up for years & years over that Dv. And then when I found my last H (my stbXH) - it really was a fairy-tale romance. True love, something to put in the books. The fact that I didn't deserve it and was too stupid to hold on to it (as was he) is immaterial.

Now my fatalism kicks in again - I honestly believe that there is a reason for my latest Dv. I think I have finally learned how to have a good M. I have learned how to appreciate my friends and my life. I've learned acceptance and tolerance. And I think most importantly I've learned what true commitment and love are.

Sirena, I wish there was something I could say. The feelings you're having are so similar to mine, and I ache for you because I can understand. But I can't think of any good advice or magic words. This is where a good friend & a shared bottle of wine are sometimes the only answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope you feel better today. I'm always ready to listen if that helps.

it's difficult to see the forest through the trees.
If you can take a moment to reflect in silence and peace to identify what, who you were surrounded by which carried you to a plane of healing, you may be able to regrasp those things which facilitated that process.

Although to identify those "healthy" elements in your life is one step, I am a firm believer that support/workshops are the ONLY means to achieve absolute liberation from losses we sustain in life. That said, here are a couple of websites (Christian based and secular alike) that may have goups or workshops in your area.

I have reached out to them over the past few months and found great comfort in the premises the christian workshops offered and have since completely arrested the issues I have placed myself in.

http://www.grief.net/

http://dmoz.org/Society/Religion_an...y/Christian_Living/Christian_Counseling/

Godspeed to you,
S

SB94, it is so comforting to know that I am normal and that it's natural to have all these feelings I am experiencing. I am really tired of friends who look at me in disbelief and can't believe I'm still hurting when the D was 5 years ago. I am sick and tired of hearing "come on, you have to move on, forget him ..."

Yes, I admit that at some point I will have to move on, but how am I supposed to forget? It is easy for people to tell you that, but how can I not feel anything and forget his existence when he and I still love each other despite everything that has changed over the years?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SH94:
<strong>Instead of wondering why you're hurting, turn your question around and ask yourself, "Why shouldn't I be feeling this pain again?? My XH & I had a perfect M, yet we abandoned it because of a few problems. Now I discover my XH is still in love with me. And I'm having to give him up all over again." No wonder you are hurting so much more now. You have come to realize what you lost by divorcing your H. And by walking away from this opportunity with your XH, you're having to re-live your divorce all over again..</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I won't say we had a perfect M, but we didn't have one that had to end in DV. But well, it did because we didn't know how to snap out of depression and work on saving the M before it really went towards DV.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by SH94:
<strong>Sirena, I wish there was something I could say. The feelings you're having are so similar to mine, and I ache for you because I can understand. But I can't think of any good advice or magic words. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what, I cried so much when I read your last post. My tears just flowed and I broke down. Everything you said sounded like my own heart was talking to me. It hurts so much inside and it's worse because I can't talk to anyone. It doesn't mean that once you are no longer legally married that you lose all attachment with the other person. No, it seems that the attachment, the connection, the bond will always be there. The worst thing is I think I am going to think about him for the rest of my life. I didn't believe this before, but seeing that I have not moved on anywhere from where I was all these years, I can't help but come to that conclusion.

I have learned true love from him and from this painful experience, I am learning that you have to fight to keep even a "perfect" M together. Very painful lesson. Lots of regret and I don't know how long I will keep beating myself up. I was just 22 when I left him, but now that it's almost 8 years later, I feel like the same person. I still ache for the frightened young woman I was and am guilty I didn't do more to save her from this pain and despair I now have to face.

I wonder how was your last meeting or contact with with exes like. Was it something to remember fondly or was it very painful?

Sirena -
I'm sorry I haven't been able to respond to your post till now. I've been out of contact for the past week & just now have been able to get on internet.

You asked: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder how was your last meeting or contact with with exes like. Was it something to remember fondly or was it very painful? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To tell you the truth, seeing my X for the first time after the DV was a real let-down. I had imagined all kinds of bad feelings. Instead, I felt absolutely nothing. Maybe it was seeing him with his new wife. Or perhaps it was the changes I saw in him - he wasn't the same person I had been married to.

That's one thing that's helping me get over this current situation with my 4th H too. Realizing that all these memories I've been holding on to and that cause me such pain are just that - memories. The man who is now my STBXH is not the man I fell in love with and married 8 years ago. So now I think about all my happy memories & get reminiscent & even sad that we couldn't continue that happiness. But I also don't want my STBXH back because he isn't the same person I married.

So I guess I have to ask you: are you hurting from the memories, or because you want to be with your XH? By that I mean, the man your XH is and not the person you remember being married to. Do you think you would still be happy with him? Even after all his changes, and your changes?

You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It hurts so much inside and it's worse because I can't talk to anyone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel so bad for you when I hear you say that. Because I do know what it's like to not be able to talk about those things that hurt the most. And when people tell you "get over it" and "move on", you know they're wanting what's best for you but you also know they haven't got a clue. Just because you know you should move on, you can't simply turn off love. I know, believe me, I know.

I'm sorry I'm not much use in offering any good advice about how to turn that love off. Except to say that we'll be here to offer support as long as you need it. I hope you'll keep talking to us here whenever you feel like having an ear or a shoulder.