I just got off the phone from my wife and it wasn't a good converstation. She says that I shouldn't be mad at my former BF because he wasn't the cause of our marriage breaking up. She said that she hasn't felt loved in years and that the marriage was over. What I told her back was that it will haunt me to the day I die that we never went to one counselling session,group therapy,spiritual guidance, any books or magazines on the topics of saving a marriage. This just hit me out of the blue. The BF was a huge part in the marriage breaking up right now, maybe not in the problems of the past but by not respecting our marriage and the chance of reconciliation. He got himself involved and my wife developed feelings for him and moved in with him.

My question is: was I right in telling her about his lies and the fact that he got involved that was something that was not his business? Or should I have said nothing.

My second question is that she wants to take a 10 day vacation with him out to Yellowstone in August and she wants me to use my vacation to watch the kids. I said no. Then she said that she would have watched the kids when I wanted to take a vacation. I need help with this one because she is pushing the right buttons and I'm feeling really guilty. Thank you.

Hi,

I don't really have andy suggestions, just wanted to offer support.

D.

I understand how you are feeling. I see your pain. We need affection, it is our nature. God created us male and female.Man and woman can have a strong affect on one another.Very intense. God knows this.

[And the LORD God said,"It is not good that man be alone; I will make him a helper comparable to him.And the LORD caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept:and he took one of his ribs, and closed up his flesh in its place. The rib which the LORD had taken out of man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.Gen2:18-]

"Call upon Me, and he will answer you and show you the great and mighty things which you do not know"jer33:3. I have to word for you JESUS CHRIST. He is your answer.He will heal your broken heart.

First, I assume you live near each other, but I don't know the age of your children. Can you find a sitter to watch the children during the day while you work. You can work together on this one.

Secondly, I found the following quote interesting. We also had no MC, and through this crisis I wondered too if it would help. Then a friend said "I did suggest MC to you, but you were certain the H wouldn't go". He wouldn't go before the wedding, and I knew he wouldn't go after - he saw no problems.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What I told her back was that it will haunt me to the day I die that we never went to one counselling session,group therapy,spiritual guidance, any books or magazines on the topics of saving a marriage. This just hit me out of the blue. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, I realize that our problems didn't hit me out of the blue, but that I was in DENIAL, about the extent of the marital problems. Denial is a very safe place to be, especially when we are unaware or unable to deal with the issues.
I find myself more aware now, and look back at our M and wonder why I didn't see it all before.
As you become more aware, you might see the signs too.
Good Luck.

Thanks newly, maybe I was in denial and didn't see the signs of a marriage falling apart. It has taken the affair and subsequent divorce proceedings to wake me up to that. Now when I see what has happened it is already too late, she has given her love to another and will not reconcile. She craved for attention andnurturing and I was unable to give her all that she needed. Now she has gotten it from former BF and she is head over heals in love.

My question is, when does she find out what she needs in her life to make her happy and not depend on others to do that for her. I asked her that and she got really defensive. Maybe not the smartest thing I said but I wanted to be honest. She was pretty upset, but I don't feel that God is in her life right now and she is using others to make her happy.

When that fog where's off she will still not come back to me. One thing I do know is that she is stubborn and nobody will ever tell her what to do. This is a matter of defiance and she will cling to that just out of spite even if her life unravels. I pray that God can reach her. She claims that He is in her life but why are you living in infidelity why are you quitting on a marriage. She has no other reply than to say that I haven't loved you in years and I am going down a different road than you. Those comments cut me to the bone and I didn't know how to respond.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My question is, when does she find out what she needs in her life to make her happy and not depend on others to do that for her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sorry to say that many people never "do the work" to find this out.
This is what I meant by aware. I've learned so much, and yet know so little. I know see how unhappy I was, but did nothing to make it better (hard to have the time with two very young children). When I meet new people now, particularly divorced ones, I can tell right away how much work they've done for themselves, to improve them as a person. If someone is still blaming, it's a huge red flag to me (and it's usually easy to see in their typically angry faces). Another good line is "I don't know why we are divorced".

I can tell you that I feel much better about myself now. I have a great group of friends, many of whom I've met from my divorce support group, and take care of myself more. I am a much happier person, and a better mother than before. I hope you will find all of this in time.

PS, I found MB to try to save my M, but H refused to read or attend a weekend. That says alot to me. But I still read and learned about what it takes to make a good relationship, and now use the concepts more with my children, family and friends and to be a better person.
I've passed my MB materials along to many people, and while another friend was unable to "save" his marriage, he now understands more about why it failed, and accepts responsibility for his contributions to the failure.

This MB has been an outstanding life savior forme. I have been in denial for far too long on my failures as a husband and father, and I know that I have a long road ahead of me. I continually pray to The Lord to guide me, but it makes me sad to see my wife continue down the road she has taken. I want to shake her and wake her up to the true meaning of happiness but I have to let God do that. It's just sad that she has interpretted God's word to benefit what she has done so far by saying everyone is doing it and I have to be happy for myself.

I wonder will she be truely happy as she has yet ever been alone to find that inner happiness. She was diagnosed with depression and is on medication for that. I hope that is not clouding her judgement on things, thinking what she is doing is right.

Well, she is definitely in the FOG.
My story is not infidelity, but probably alcohol abuse (&ACOA issues) and lack of responsibilty. However, my H continues to blame me for ending the M, despite the fact that he left and refused to seek help to recover the M.

If you blame, you are not responsible right, so you have no work to do. It's all the other person's fault. Life is so easy when you accept no responsibility, but then you never become an adult.

Keep reading and Keep healing. We're all here together.

I think it was easier to blame and start over than it was to remain and work on our marriage. The former BF became to involved and clouded her judgement and with her infactuation for him for so long, it just seemed like a natural change for her. She told me that she hasn't felt this happy for a long time(guilttrip) and she has no reason to even think about trying with me.

She came from a family of known depressives and alcholics so I don't know if some of these issues are hereditary or just instinctive for her. But blame is huge with her. She is able to put in detail the blame on me and yet gloss overwhat she has done.

I wish that I would have recognized my own failures earlier and maybeit wouldn't have gotten so far out of control, but when I am willing she has moved on. I still lovel her but I can't keep beating myself up with her. She has made her choice and I need to be strong for our children because they are all I have. She isn't a bad person, but the fog has claimed her and I don't know what will happen when it where's off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She came from a family of known depressives and alcholics </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mine too!
I forgot to mention his depression.

But I didn't realize how much my Codependency allowed a bad situation to worsen through out M.
You might be interested in some of the books by Melodie Beattie such as Copendency, and Codependency No More. (Thank god for books on tape, because I couldn't have read as many books as I've listened to on my drive to work). I'm sure you will identify some of the traits in yourself and in your wife. There is also an ACOA website to help you with the issues too.
I always suggest people find a good divorce support group in their area. You are not alone, and the group can help you get through this.

Thank you for the book titles. I love to read and have just about devoured everything on what has been going on. I guess that's what makes these situations that much harder. I feel like I've finally wakened up and the game is already over.

Hi,

Sorry to hear about it, Best thing is to work on yourself and stop begging her. Get yourself a membership at the gym and go work out after work. Make yourself happy, do not feel sorry for yourself. Work on your inner happiness and make yourself a better person. Stop bothering her it will not work she is gone. If you work on yourself and make yourself happy then others will see that and know that you are ok. If she comes back fine if she is gone for good fine. But always be in a good mood when you see her and around the kids. Do not be angry about the other man. If you see him go up to him shake his hand and tell him you wish them good luck. Tell her your main focus is the kids. Believe me by being happy with yourself she will she that and she will stop feeling sorry for you. Why do you want pity, yes it is painful but it will make you a better person if you work on you. Forgot her for now and work on you. It is up to you and your God on what happens from now on. I told my wife I wish her the best and I have moved on. Do you really want to live with someone who does not love you, I sure do not. The pain is great but you need to move on with your life. I hope it works out for you either way.

Your right Toyman. It's time to stop analyzing her life and worry about me. God will work his wonders upon her and if it was meant to be for us to be together,He will arrange it. The OM is truely confused because he was myBF so I dont know if he was jealous of me or not. I have a hard time even looking at him and he at me so I have to move forward and try to forgive him as God has taught us.

The fact that he was your BF really says alot about how far an EA can go. And it could be that he saw that you didn't appreciate what you had before, but now that it's missing . . . . .

I never really knew about EA's before this site. My best friend at work is a man, with children the same age as me. I'm also good friends with his wife, so I know it can or will never turn into an EA.

But, work on yourself now, and also read all you can for the benefit of your children. Don't be vengeful, but truly work together for their best interest. I'm in the middle of a custody fight with the man who ignored his kids for 5 years.

Hi,

Be the better man than he is. If you see him smile and tell him you wish them good luck. Let them go on their vacation and you watch the kids. Then plan your vacation and go to disneyland with the kids or such or go with friends and leave the kids with her. Take care of you, hold your head high and go on with life with a smile, no one wants to hang out with a bitter hateful man, but they will hang out with a friendly happy one. Your wife maybe when she goes away on vacation not have a great time or she may have the time of her life but you cannot hold her hostage, that is spite and revenge, let her go, maybe she will see the light and come back or maybe not but do not use the kids as a bargaining tool to try to get her back. to be spiteful is foolish and you must be the better man. It is hard but you need to soldier on alone.

Toyman

Newly and Toyman thanks. I do believe he has taken advantage of a situation and that shows what kind of character he has. I will "soldier" on. I cant stoop to their levels of lies and deceit, I feel that I have much to much to offer.

God is the only one to show them the error of their ways so I must follow my heart and put my faith in God. My kids need someone strong in their life not a broken down father. They can be my inspiration and also all you good MB'RS.

FAA,
i would like to 2nd the excellent advice of TOYMAN. it's time for you to disengage and seperate your self emotionally from this entire mess.

for you to do the things that need doing at this time, it requires that you develop a more objective and detached attitude.

now as to your ex BF. sorry but he's a piece of dog meat plain and simple. yes it's true that your wife is the one responsible for the cheating but this guy was suppose to be your BF for heaven sake! well if this is the case then may the good lord protect us all from other such good friends! your wife is wrong! he's a low life. pure gutter trash!

are you and your wife divorced yet? if not then you taking the kids so that she and lover boy can go off on a vacation is just plain stupid! sorry to say it that way but my God, what are you thinking? your wife is living with another man and you're going to help her out? why?

tell her that you will consider mutuale child support and aid after the papers are signed and not before. sorry bud but in my opinion, s@rew her, her boyfriend and their vacation plans. why would you even consider being helpful...what are you doing...applying for st. hood?

coach

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FeelingAllAlone:
<strong>My question is: was I right in telling her about his lies and the fact that he got involved that was something that was not his business? Or should I have said nothing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As your wife's husband and friend, I believe it was and is your responsibility to communicate any warning you believe to be appropriate. Whether she heeds the warning is her own business, but a watchman who doesn't sound the alarm isn't much of a watchman - and I believe the same is true of being a friend.

Once the warning has been delivered, I think that the number of repetitions is more a matter of judgement than obligation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>My second question is that she wants to take a 10 day vacation with him out to Yellowstone in August and she wants me to use my vacation to watch the kids. I said no. Then she said that she would have watched the kids when I wanted to take a vacation. I need help with this one because she is pushing the right buttons and I'm feeling really guilty.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There's a word for this. It's called enabling. I would have said "no". And her offer of reciprocation strikes me as funny, since in a custody situation where you are without your kids much of the time already, it's hard for me to imagine why you wouldn't want to take advantage of your vacation time to spend as much of it with your kids as possible.

The thing is I do want my kids and most if not all of my vacation, I want to do stuff with them involved. The problem I have is she wants me to take a vacation to benefit them and then she will watch the kids if I want a vacation by myself. I had taken a vacation with some friends up in Canada last year, without her(guytrip) and she threw that in my face. I told her I was with the kids whenever you needed me to take vacation for her 2-3day seminars. With me working half of the month and having half of the month off, I take my kids that whole time. Her and her "boy toy" get 15 days alonetime.

I feel guilty saying no to watching the kids for her since I want them so bad but then I don't want to stoop to her level and say no. She expects me to do this and will then reciprocate when I want time alone. I feel like she is controlling me still. She can have 15 days a month free time and then she wants 10 days in a row sometime in August. Then I felt like the heel for saying no. I don't want to be down to her level because since our children were born, she would not allow us to vacation 10 days like that because the kids were "too Little" Now with former BF she thinks there's a whole new world and she deserves to see it.

I want her to be happy. I can't sit home and stew about this. She deserves to be happy. I love her that much. How she did it sucks but I have to move on. Maybe one day, she will understand the sacrifices that I made for her and God will work through her; but I can't be the bad guy. There already is one of them(BF). Why not let God work through them and I will take Toyman's advice and move on. She will deserve everything she gets.