well after a year of reading neils posts i have got to pointwhere i am just very angry with the way i have been portrayed and the lies that he has posted about me here. Marriage break-ups are tough on everybody involved and are never all caused by one person.

for the past six years my marriage has consisted of spending day after day alone looking after the family while neil is too busy on hois computer to notice i existed, yes i got lonely and i made a mistake in thinking that the affair i had might somehow make me feel wanted again. No neil was never a bad husband quite the opposite he was a lovely man just obbsessed with his PC.

yes i have been unwell due to child abuse issues but one week after being released from hospital i was caring for my family in the same way i always have. Unfortunately i couldnot cope with my own needs ands the needs that neil had due to the insecurites that i had caused from the affair. I felt punished, dirty, unworthy and guilty. and it started again.

But now i have had enough, i have seen two men since i separated from neil. I look after te girls with no problem, i love my children and i am a good parent and in times of crises i have made mistakes like any one else who is confused and lonely.

when you have been abused comments from your husband like ' the scars on your arms are your **** buddy scars' You are your abusive father and mother rolled into one' ' you were the one who had the affaiar, was abused,has ****** up parents' do not help recovery of a marriage niether does running to a solicitor to prevent a good mother seeing her children, throwing me out with no money, no car, no keys, and some clothes, offering £30 a week for food for the kids and 17p per day for their lunches each! Filing for divorce within weeks, lying on the internet about me making me out to be a bad parent and a bad person. far from it our marriage drifted apart, i was unwell, and i am not the terrible 6 OM disturbed wife who has no morals and is the sick in the head person that i have been portrayed as here.

please be carefulin future about what you read here and remember that the people posting may not be all that they claim to be, that their partners may not be as bad as they are portrayed to be,it has broken my heart this year to read the postings and replies. ultimately marriage break-ups are rarely one-sided. ande whatever the future holds for neil and myself i am confident that i am not a bad person that my children are happy when with either of us, that leaving them with their dad was the most painful decision a mother has to make and thart i did it for their security and happiness knowing that neil is a good dad and that it would mean we both have good positive input into their lives. Yes we all make mistakes, yes unfortunately my daughter discovered me and a friend naked together but che did not see more than that, yes it was an irrisponsible act but i am human and it was christmas and i was very lonely and hurt that neil had another woman in my home on christmas day with my children and brought her gifts from him and them and that my kids came to me empty handed and were upset that they had no gift for me.We all make mistakes, we are all learning there are not that many perfect people in the world regards
christine Porches STBW

What gives?

Everyone read this post....

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=021560

If I clarify that you are indeed Neil's wife I would love to talk to you, be of any help I can be. However, one of these posts is a lie. Which is it? The community is here to support you.

Hi nina,

She is probably diagnosed with borderline personality disorder ... lol !!! or try to convince porche with it.

Thanks for the head up ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-rh-

To Binbag,

Christine, it must be very painful to read about your life and intimate details on a public forum. However you have confused the issue by posting twice as different people. Please clarify who you are-MB has supported Neil and would like to offer you support also-we know better than most that there are two sides to every story.

yes the previous post was a lie or wha texactly it was was me trying to find out anonymously about BPD as you are aware neil has told you that i have BPD. However after reading about it and speaking to my own Psychaitrist i can assure you that i do not have BPD.

For someone who suffers from this awful debilitating condition they are barely able to function let alone work as a qualified nurse and earn their own living keeping a roof over my own head, delivering and collecting my beautiful daughters from school, studying for a degree and ensuring that there is food, clothes heat and hot water, petrol in my car and pay my bill which come to more than the £500 i had to get solicitors to agree neil to supply. I am currently living alone in a rented house that costs £750 rent and rates alone. where does the reat of the monry come from ? apparently from the six lovers that i have taken? No from my own ability to work as a proffesional nurse running a home for 34 elderly patients in charge of my shift and in charge of my life.

So yes, a lie, and yes easy for you to make insensitive jokes at others peoples expense but BPD i do not and have never had, Serious depression caused by my inability to come to terms with years of abusive behaviour during my childhood, which i gratefully have had wonderful counselling for. Yes i know that it was very hard for neil whilst i was unwell due to his having to cope with work, the affair and my depression and self harming.However in four months a razor has not touched my skin, i am working, studying and looking at a self-suffient future.

The marriage broke down, but, as i say, there are many reasons for that of which myself, neil and others have to take responsibility for.

My ability to be a good mother never comes into question when neil has to go to work, he happily allows them to come to me , i have always looked after them, i am proud of my children and the way they have survived this terrible break up. I never ever speak badly of their father and i never will. I will however show to my solicitor the terrible messages that he has sent me along with the ones i have already sent.

do you seriously think that if i was as bad as i have been portrayed that the social services, school and other agencies would not have visited by now. Would it not be sensible for neil to have not allowed me to have contact with them! but each time it is suggeted he alwys backs out of it, WHY, because he knows full well that there is no cause for concern, that my children are safe with me.

Why did i leave them behind, because i thought it would be the right thing to do , i was told to **** off had my bank card taken, my car keys, my house keys, my rings taken away. i had 17 pounds in my purse and had to rely on a friend ( Whom i had not had a affaiar with) to be true to his offer of helping me move out. And he did do that and cared for me as best he could and when the time was right he moved on and left me to grow stronger and he is still my friend to this day.

Because i have at the moment no money, i couldnot get petrol for my car, because i had to move house on friday and couldnot pay for a van, i spent four days moving the contents of my house in my small car to my new house, my car was still loaded with stuff on friday, yesterday i worked from 8am til 10pm i had a drink with my brother, left the car at his house and walked home, i asked neil if he would drop the girls off because my car was loaded up and i couldnt clip the back seat into place before i unloaded some of it. simply put message

My car is full of stuff please can you drop the girls round to me

The reply.

' Once again you lie through your teeth. your car is not full of stuff. What was it? too busy bouncing on your boys **** to get your kids?'

Of course this man loves me and adores me, treats me like the mother of his children and wants to have me home. Well i ask you is this the type of message you send someone that you want to come home !!

And if you dont believe this is what he sends then let me know your mobile number and i willforward it to you, Lies yes i guess they all very easy to tell but i ask you lot who have advised him the advice you have given has been based on the lies that you have fallen for from him.

angry? Yes i am? devastated and hurt? yes. i read all this for a year and i cant take it any more. i am not the person you think i am and i posted anonymously under cover to get information of BPD never for a minuter thinking that i would feel as desperate as i do today to in some way set the record straight.

chris BROKEN HEARTED

Binbag,

I am terribly sorry for the situation that you have put yourself in. I understand Neil's position, because his is similar to mine. In effect, he truly loves you. Of that I have no doubt. And it is exactly the posts that he makes, the anger and hurt that he bleeds. The notes that you write of, the messages you say he leaves you. I believe you when you say that they are horrible. They are probably even more devistating because they are based upon truth.
They are based upon your actions, and therefore hurt you even more.

I also believe that there is two sides to the story. Of that I absolutely do not doubt. Sure, we have only heard Neil's side. However, if you have been reading for so long, why did you not attempt to set the record straight before now. I do not doubt that you have read these things, and seethed at them. I assume that you have cried at his words and at the replies and posts of all of us. I believe you without a doubt.

What I think that you fail to understand is that you cannot separate the betrayal and the consequences. You cannot think that because you can keep a job, that means that you are a 'good parent'. Being a parent is not just being there while the children are in the same room. You have to be a parent all the time. I fail to understand how you can feel that you were being a good parent, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes we all make mistakes, yes unfortunately my daughter discovered me and a friend naked together but che did not see more than that, yes it was an irrisponsible act but i am human and it was christmas and i was very lonely and hurt that neil had another woman in my home on christmas day </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How does a good mother EVER put herself and her children in that situation???? How could that ever have been OK??? In ANY situation that is being the poorest excuse of a mother or father for that matter, that could possibly be. I don't care whether you are capable of feeding and clothing your children. That is being a waitress. A maid. a babysitter. Being a mother is something completely different.

Being a mother is a lifelong and ubiquitous position. It is not something that you can separate out and say, the kids are in the other room, or the other house, so I can act like I want. If you are so caught up in being a mother, then how can you simply pass all this off as mistakes? Along the lines of "I forgot to pick up the Drycleaning."

This also was not a one time thing. You yourself have stated in your posts </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But now i have had enough, i have seen two men since i separated from neil. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a mistake is something that is given every attempt to NOT REPEAT IT. However, you have stated yourself that you have repeated 'your mistakes.' These mistakes are not something that just happened. It is not that you didn't know what you were doing. You just made the choice to do them and if there were consequences, IF you thought that far ahead, you would deal with them later.

I truly feel sorry for you. Because you actually sound like someone to me that wants to rekindle your marriage. But you don't believe that he wants you because you hear his anger and hatred. Well, Christine, let me tell you a little something from my own perspective. I think that this anger is a good thing. Because it shows that he still cares. And if he cares, then with work, that caring can be turned back into something you can both be proud of to call love. It is when he reaches my point, and no longer posts the anger and hatred. It is the place in which he no longer has any feelings, good or bad, for you that you are past a point of love.

I hear you state over and over again that you think he is a good father. I hear in your posts that you respect him, and although you don't agree with his portrayal, you can see his side. He cannot see your side. He may never be able to, but I absolutely believe, that if you gave him a call RIGHT NOW and told him how you really feel, that a few years from now, with hard work, your girls could, and I mean COULD, have a goodnight kiss from both their mum and dad each and every night.

Don't think that because he won't give you money that he doesn't care. He just can't bring himself to support your choices. He just can't bring himself to finance his own pain and the downfall of his family. Don't ask a spouse to give you what allows you to hurt them further. It is not fair. Every penny that he gives you, he sees as potentially going to your adultery.

I know that I never loved my wife more than when I hated her so severely. That was because the pain of the love that was not being returned completely demolished me. I wish that somewhere along the line, my wife had posted here. I know that she reads all the posts. I know that she was angered, but never defended her position. Personally, I think it is because I never lied, nor did I exagerate. I never said anything that I did not know for a fact, nor that I couldn't prove if called upon to do so. But I loved her so very very much. Each time I posted I wanted her. Each time I posted the most hateful things, I wanted her more and more. My feelings were real, but my base of love was outstanding. It was only over time, with her repeated attacks and attacks and attacks. With lie after lie, that I realized that no matter how much I loved her, I could not trust her. Then and only then did my love for her begin dissolving.

Now I am happy with myself. Not how I was, but how I am now. I wish that she could have been the one to share who I am and will be. Because, and I state this with all modesty. I am a great guy. I absolutely believe that I am a great catch. Maybe Neil is as well. Maybe this has so altered his perception that he is wonderful. Maybe he, like me, has learned just what is REALLY important in life. Maybe he understands so much more about how to make you happy. Maybe he recognizes his family for the treasure that it is and always has been. Maybe he realizes how his actions HELPED, but did not CAUSE, your behavior. Maybe he is such a great guy now, that he is constantly baraged with women seeking his favor. Maybe he has changed his appearance for you, but you have not shown any appreciation, so he now dresses for himself and others. Maybe he is looking for that last ditch chance that you, YOU, YOU CHRISTINE, care enough about your family to set it above yourself. That is all. Maybe he just wants you to say you love him, your family, and yourself. And that you are willing to take the debased road and put them before yourself.

This is just how I think.

Hi C,

I usually stay out of direct disputes like these of H & W but, you remind me so much of my exww, meaning she was sexually abused at 13 and now she has had multiple A's but she is not sorry or repented about it, she suffered from low self-esteem because of the abuse, I know she felt dirty, guilty, etc, because it, but that still is no reason to go cheat, for years I tried to get her help but she refused and held the resentment against anybody that crossed her the wrong way. For many years I was treated as the one who abused her and was rejected sexually for years, she just couldn't give herself totally to me. So of course she would feel lonely, not enough attention etc...That was her internal problem not mine, but she blamed me for not meeting her emotional needs, when it was more of a inner healing process she needed and I couldn't do it. When she talks about what happened in the downfall of our M, to ease her guilt and responsibility she always says, we had problems or, we didn't do, or I did this or that. To this day she hasn't admitted what she did wrong individually but only say, "We"... yet she continues on with OM's.......I will say my exw is not BPD but I do know that she is being controlled by an evil spirit, not saying you are but I know she is. All can be set free in Christ.

I haven't followed this story so I don't all the history but, I looked back at some of the post and find it hard to believe that some of these quotes I posted were made up? I don't think you were purposely portrayed as some monster, I think porshe was posting what he was going through, I think if you did that to him then accept it, yes, sure it sounds like some horrible monster person did him dirty but I think most WS's are numb to the deception and pain they are inflicting on the BS. If you cheat and lie, don't expect what you are doing is some angel act and everybody is just happy around you and everybody suppose to shut up and suffer in silence. The BS are allowed to tell what is happening to them that's so painful, most abuse victims are in silence, most WS's cheating are in silence, when you get it out and tell somebody exposure is the first step to recovery.

Below are painful events for neil I was curious if these were all made up? I probably will get flammed for posting them but as I said exposure is first step to recovery. To clear your name I just wonder have you ceased from all this and turned your life around, I think WS's can become some of the greatest people when repented.

[Quote]
However she is asking for more money for her bills. At present I pay her some $600 a month for food for the children when she looks after them which is daily. She also works and gets a similar amount from her employment. She lives with OM2. She says she wants another amount to help with the bills.

In truth I do not pay her as much as a child minder would cost ($800). I spoke to my solicitor and she advised me that it would be ok in the divorce courts view to give her this.

[Quote]
I do not know. In my head I try and think of things I should have done differently, how I could have given more support, how I could have stopped the cutting, how I could have been there everyday she tried to kill herself but I can't get rest from it. It plagues me even now with her away and no longer mine. All I know is I spent 10 months looking after her after OM1, abuse, suicide and so many stitches Lisa you would not believe, only to be left alone for OM2. I begged and pleaded for her to go to her Brothers, he said the same, the kids too. No was always the answer, so I have switched to plan B and then divorce. Its all I can focus on to keep sense of it for myself and my little ones.

[Quote]
Even now there's all sorts of hard things to deal with, the children were sworn at by OM2 and were very upset when they came home to me last night. It's hard to hear your 10 year cry because another man has called her "****ing thick". Sounds as though they gave as good as they got though. I just cheered them up and took them out to their friends, sorry I digress. I am sure that my wife will tell people now that she wanted to come home and I didn't let her. Of course she's doing the single life out clubbing, kissing others and had contact with OM1

wel i guess that you are entitled to your own opinions and all i wanted to say is that you cannot believe everything that you read. The men that i have seen were after separation and divorve proceedings threatened and put into effect. like i have said, no-one is perfect, no one leaves their kids and home and husband if things are fine, women dont have affairs if they feel loved and wanted.

I am furious that you can so easily condemn me and i guess that it is not support that you are offering but some kind of judgement. I hope that you will look back and wonder what is is that You did to contribute to your own marriage problems rather than stand in judgement of us WS.e are well aware of what WE did we are told time and time again of our selfishness. Thankyou for that, Thankyou that the blame lies in my abuse, thankyou that you choose not to quaestion what drove us to do what we do. Thankyou that you can accuse me of being a bad parent when you have never experienced me with my children.Thankyou that you feel that a human being reaching out for comfort and finding it another person is so much worse than someone who is addicted either to their work, the internet, their computer, their porn movies, their films, their hobbies, their cars, whatever it may be that is put before their partner.

I would like to thank you for the support that neil has found so helpful here and hope that you all get what you want from your futures.

Yes i needed some money and i have a right to some after investing 13 years of my life into a marriage, and to do what with it, have a roof over my head, do i need to repent for that , i dont think so,

Yes OM2 swore, not at the kids but at me! and yes i asked him to leave because the children were finding it hard- do i need to repent for needing help and then having to let it go for the sake of my children NO i made the right decision for them

Clubbing, kissigng other men, getting drunk, i would like to know on what, and when this happened ! I have been to a pub once since my separation with a girlfriend for a party and none of that happened.

OM1 yes i bumped into him outside a shop in the village and no i have not seen him again!

Did i ask to go home. yes, but apparently not in the right way and when i asked in the right way i was told ' no way, never' that was October 31st. I have never asked since and nor will I.

Binbag, I sense much Anger in you, and anger normally covers other emotions. Guilt? Loss? Love? Panic? Yet there is nothing in your posts about what YOU did to save your M after you left? You could have asked to recover? To stop the divorce etc? MC?

Your postings don't make sense because Porsche stated here:

Going To Try Again

That he wanted to try again and recover. This guy clearly loves you but there does not appear to be a shred of recovery in you?

And this follow up thread just shows the pain:

Did not expect this

and this poem posting though I dont know the author sounds like its not someone who is out to lose you?

Poem Posting

And finally I cannot find any post where Porsche said you were a unfit mother, in fact to the contrary. Others may have questioned it though and rightly so. What would you have done/be doing if the shoe was on the other foot? Seems to be me he did every thing he could?

Just my $0.02. I think you could/would get great support here but I am sorry to say you wont get much by attacking us. If you want to Marriage Build then you are in the right place. Then if not sadly you are not <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ January 19, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: softman ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by binbag:
<strong>yes the previous post was a lie or wha texactly it was was me trying to find out anonymously about BPD as you are aware neil has told you that i have BPD. However after reading about it and speaking to my own Psychaitrist i can assure you that i do not have BPD.

For someone who suffers from this awful debilitating condition they are barely able to function let alone work as a qualified nurse and earn their own living keeping a roof over my own head, delivering and collecting my beautiful daughters from school, studying for a degree and ensuring that there is food, clothes heat and hot water, petrol in my car and pay my bill which come to more than the £500 i had to get solicitors to agree neil to supply. .....

angry? Yes i am? devastated and hurt? yes. i read all this for a year and i cant take it any more. i am not the person you think i am and i posted anonymously under cover to get information of BPD never for a minuter thinking that i would feel as desperate as i do today to in some way set the record straight.

chris BROKEN HEARTED</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, BPD is only debilitating to those in relationships with the person. BPDs are well-known for their socially high functioning. They have the knack for making the person living with them appear to be crazy for accusing them of "off" behavior. Some famous BPDs on this page alone include the xh of God Is In Control, Faithful Wife, and NotPeachyInGA, so don't try to tell me you are incapacitated by any such disease. Depression is debilitating and causes people to not function or be able to work in its more serious forms. But BPD? Not in a heartbeat.

The only way a BPD will hear a psychiatrist's diagnosis is when no one believes the accusations they hurl at spouses, parents, co-workers, etc. BPDs are articulate, and are extremely manipulative of other peoples' emotions.

Frankly Bin, I'm skeptical. Your posts here while Porche has taken a breather for the next little while rank worthy of the highest suspicion. Especially to those who are familiar with BPD. Rather, your frenetic posts here seem to confirm the amateur diagnosis affixed to you.

If you truly are not all about vengence and destruction (telling your little girl to not tell when she caught you with another man is an experience I've personally been through with my mother - and while Porche never labeled you as unfit, I think you know you were in this instance TOTALLY over the line!) then you'd be getting some help and not trying to deceive everyone here.

Have a care. Some of us are not completely gullible when it comes to mental illness.

binbag,

If you need a support to fix your M, we all here gladly !!! check Lisa in London or Jen Brown ... both were WW and both get all support from us, even sometime I want to send 2x4 to their BS !!!. But reading your post, you are angry, you are justifying your actions and you want us to support your A ... you are in the wrong board ... you should go to TOW.

Correct me if I am wrong. If you want to fix your M, please read as much as you can about MB ... read this link How Affairs should Ends ?. You are angry ... good, why shouldn't you ... you mess up pretty bad. Now all of us capable of making mistake .... it is not about the mistake but about what do you do to fix it.

I am happy here with my 2 D (50% custody) very peacefull while my ex (WW) is living in daily hell chasing OM and running out of money. Make no mistake, I pay what the law requires me to pay, no more no less, I do not want to finance her A, why should I ?. I am actually thank to my ex to open up my eyes and giving me the opportunity to start over. I saw many women that are sexier, younger, and more loving to kids than my ex ... are available and willing. I gave gave my best but she declined it now I am taking my best somewhere else ... and you know what, I found out many women will be glad to have even half of what I had given to my ex.

My point is ... Neil will be where I am and you will be where my ex will be. It is your choice.

-rh-

Christine,

You sound exactly like my wife in several instances. First and foremost is the sense of entitlment to finances, simply because </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes i needed some money and i have a right to some after investing 13 years of my life into a marriage, and to do what with it, have a roof over my head, do i need to repent for that , i dont think so,</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She also thinks that the current should not affect the past. Let me ask you something.

What if an employee is stellar for 10 years. He is prompt, courteous, willing, and capable in every way. Then for some reason, he decides that he doesn't like the new boss. He becomes lethargic, perplexing, discourteous, then steals from the business. He is caught, and his behavior is punished by imprisonment. His past does not nor should it, affect his responsibility in the present. The simple fact is that regardless of what he WAS like, it is how he is CURRENTLY that effects how people think of him and are willing to do for him.

Please allow me another example. If a mother is a great mother, she is loving, feeds her children, nurtures them, cares for them, and then after 13 years, for whatever reason abandons them, hurts them, or injures them. That is a crime. Regardless of what happened before, her recent actions supercede her past. She can be thrown in jail for that, because there are laws against it. However, is she does similar things, betrays her husband, takes one or several lovers, tears her family apart, lies to her husband, her family, her parents, her friends, and most of all to herself. I feel that it is every bit as criminal. The only thing is, that there is currently no law against it. There is no law stating that should you break your vows in such a way, that you are guilty, and deserve punishment.

This simple fact that there is no law, allows wayward spouses to feel that what they do is "NOT THAT BAD". It truly amazes me time and again, the lengths that some will go to rationalize, justify, and defend their behavior. The VERY BEHAVIOR that they in their hearts KNOW is wrong. But it hurts too much to see it, so they will go to great lengths to deny it is wrong.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Thankyou that you can accuse me of being a bad parent when you have never experienced me with my children.Thankyou that you feel that a human being reaching out for comfort and finding it another person is so much worse than someone who is addicted either to their work, the internet, their computer, their porn movies, their films, their hobbies, their cars, whatever it may be that is put before their partner. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is pure crap. It is you trying to defend your actions by stating that other actions are also bad. This is what my wife does. She attacks, then when I prove she is not making sense, she quickly changes the subject, or says that I do things. However, she never states exactly what it is that I do, just that "I could name all sorts of things that you do, but I won't, because I am above that." or at least in essence that is what she does, and that is what you are doing with this defense.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unfortunately i couldnot cope with my own needs ands the needs that neil had due to the insecurites that i had caused from the affair. I felt punished, dirty, unworthy and guilty. and it started again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here you are essentially saying that you understand that what you did was wrong, however, you couldn't cope with what that meant and what you needed to do in order to fulfill your duty and position of wife and mother. Therefor, you decided that you would "started again."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">parents' do not help recovery of a marriage niether does running to a solicitor to prevent a good mother seeing her children, throwing me out with no money, no car, no keys, and some clothes, offering £30 a week for food for the kids and 17p per day for their lunches each! Filing for divorce within weeks, lying on the internet about me making me out to be a bad parent and a bad person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have yet to see you show me ANYTHING that says that you are a good mother. You say it often enough, but you seem to think that because your children love you, that makes you a good mother. Because you feed them, that it makes you a good mother. I don't know what sort of mothers live in the UK, but here in the states, that sort of thing is just the basic expectations of any caregiver. A mother is so much more. A mother is a source of values. A mother is the ULTIMATE role model for her children. A mother is someone that would gladly perish before seeing harm come to her family or children. Yet you put yourself in a position that your child saw you naked with another man. Exactly how does this behavior meet any form of what a mother should be??? I would like to know how allowing yourself to be in that situation is being a good mother? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes we all make mistakes, yes unfortunately my daughter discovered me and a friend naked together but che did not see more than that, yes it was an irrisponsible act but i am human and it was christmas and i was very lonely and hurt that neil had another woman in my home on christmas day with my children </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> need some help. my marriage has seriously struggled in the last two years because my wife has BPD. she was diagnosed a few years after our marriage and i have managed to cope well until i discovered she was having an affair with a colleague. I was devastated.I finally left my wife and two children because i could not cope any longer with the lies and deceit. i see the childern often as i can but i am finding it really hard to get support in the uk.there just does not seem to be much information.can anyone help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This shows me that you were in effect trying to find help for what you perceived to be yourself. I don't believe that there was very much lying going on here, except that you were trying to pass off as being the Betrayed spouse rather than the wayward spouse. I think that this post is your attempt to help yourself. You seem to be searching for help. You seem to be looking for support. Yet, you conitnue to put yourself in the position of the victim. Get over it. Take some responsibility, some REAL RESPONSIBILITY. Don't say, "yes I was bad" then follow it up with a resounding finger pointing session about how bad Neil was and is. When you take responsibility, you don't say, But he made me. You say, this is what I did, and for that I am sorry. I will take the consequences and Do everything that is within my power to rectify the problem. No buts, No finger pointing. He is responsible for what he did, and can only take care of himself. But this incessant childlike portrayal of I did this, but he caused me to do it, is just ridiculous.

You have a chance. I tell you again. I really believe that you have a chance. You might have to prove yourself for a while, but after hearing Neil for so long, I still believe that he wants you for his wife. Don't let him stop feeling. Because by then it will be too late. do what is right, not because you are getting something in return, but because you are doing what is right. If you do, he will come around. And if he doesn't, then you will regain the right to be a rolemodel for your children.

Hi BB,

Thanks for replying and many would like to help you here.....However once again I see the same behavior in you as my exww.....Rather than acknowlegding her wrong doing and process the cause and effect and responsibility she would immediately as a cop out would say, fine "blame me" it's all my fault', thats right you did nothing', you're perfect, etc....

My exww only saw my circle of friends or family as an opportunity to bash me openly, she was always like, ok, this is my chance for pay back, I'll make him look as bad as I feel.

This is what I never heard from exww along these lines and neither do I hear this from you. This is what I think a WS would say along this line if they were trying to heal and want help.

******

You know, I could have done better in our marriage and I failed to play the role of your wife that would keep you happy, instead I selfishly focused on myself and looked at how you weren't pleasing me and I became angry with you and rather than trying to be creative and work with the problems Instead I started looking outside the home for male attention and I was wrong, I should have gotten counseling and talked to someone mature I trusted and spoke to you about what was happening with me, I was depressed, my past affected you, yet, I blamed you. I presented our kids with a bad role model images of what a mother should do. Now that the damage is done, I ask for your forgivenness now, what can I do to help you heal from my actions and how can we make things better for the kids seeing what they went through in all this mess. Lets not focus on marriage at the moment but lets focus on mending the emotional pain to all of us. This is my plan of action I'm doing for me and all of us. I have cut all contact with OM's and realise it was all foolishness. Please accept my apology, etc....

*****

This is what I don't hear from you BB, I hear, blame, guilt, justify and it was his fault, I want more money, etc...

On another note - You said women don't leave good men when everything is alright,.... but neither does a good man stay happy around a depressed woman wrapped up in her own world of problems, it's heavy on a mans spirit, a man will look for an escape in a cave doing the things you listed in his home, to me it sound like you left hanging years ago because adultery don't happen over night its thought on for long time before the act.

Take Care

binbag,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Unfortunately i couldnot cope with my own needs ands the needs that neil had due to the insecurites that i had caused from the affair. I felt punished, dirty, unworthy and guilty. and it started again.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why you must stay in the healing process, and Neil will not be able to help you do it alone. You need to take your medication on a consistant basis, no skipping, if they are not helping you, your Doc. need's to be informed and go to a different type untill you find the right balance, this will help keep your emotional wellness in balance.

You also need therapy with someone who specializes in abuse issue's, they will be your life line at this time. Neil want's to help you, and support you, but he cannot do it alone.
Neil also has his own issue's to deal with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">when you have been abused comments from your husband like ' the scars on your arms are your **** buddy scars' You are your abusive father and mother rolled into one' ' you were the one who had the affaiar, was abused,has ****** up parents' do not help recovery </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No they do not, but is that really how thing's were said? Or is it how the abuse is directing your thought's? I will not say Neil has not had angry outburst, but it is quite normal, and since you know all about the pain involved you should be able to have some understanding and KEEP YOURSELF IN CONTROL. You show Neil this and it will make Neil keep control.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">far from it our marriage drifted apart, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will ask you this, was your marriage ever actually together? I know in my marriage there is not one part of me and my W's life that my W's abuse has not had an influence on.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> yes unfortunately my daughter discovered me and a friend naked together but che did not see more than that, yes it was an irrisponsible act </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You yourself should know this is very damaging to a child, it was not even your husband you were with. If you cannot have common regaurd for your own children, why would anyone believe you can have it for anyone else?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> my kids came to me empty handed and were upset that they had no gift for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This make's me very sad, more pain to an already painful situation. Now you have a choice, you and Neil can keep going in the direction you are going at present, knowing full well that the deterioration of your family will continue, or you can make the change's necessary for healing and heal with your family.

Ditto, everlasting!

binbag, you are far from THAT label!

Come on.....I see in you a person that WANTS to have her marriage, but does not know what to do about it, now that all that horrible stuff is out in the open.

Porsche has always wanted this marriage, and he has done what a lot of us her do in the meantime....he has VENBTED his frustrations on this anonymous board rather than at you.

That you post here too now makes it less anonymous for him, but not to us. So we will say things according to the teachings of the MB board.

Believe it or not, even after all the hurt, all the wounded pride, all the insults, all the finger pointing and all the blaming, you CAN restore your marriage. All that is required is if you BOTH want it. And dedication.

And I have a more than sneaking suspicion that you BOTH do WANT it, so BADLY.

But you do not know how to approach each other now without hostility. Well, maybe Porsche knows what to do to fix this, having been here at MB for a while, but YOU do not....or maybe it seems too hard.

Take it from me, a very recently divorced person who would have given ANYTHING for my then husband, to come to this site, and at least explore it, and its concepts....Porshe ought to be GRATEFUL you are doing that.

For a moment consider this......even after your affairs, even after your disrespect for Porsche, you seem to know a few things that bothered you about the marriage....REALLY think about whether you can work out those differences or not. I feel that in my own divorce, that one of the major factors was that we could not honestly communicate our feelings about stuff that HURT!

TRY, binbag, TRY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because divorce is THE most hurful thing you will EVER LIVE THROUGH, even counting the DEATH OF A PARENT....BELIEVE ME PLEASE!!!!

It may help you to commit to your marriage, or it may cement your decision to leave it....but PLEASE TRY!!!!!!!! Do you want to be on your deathbed 50 years from now wishing you had spent important time with your kids? TRY, TRY, and TRY again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when you are done, try some more.......your KIDS are the most important issue here, not YOU, not Porshe, not what the world thinks of you......the KIDS!!

End of rant

Nina

I don't knowhy but this thread caught my eye.

I see alot of anger here from alot of people.

Now, I have not read Porche's thread. I did skim one of the links provided.

As a BS, yes I have anger, that is why I vent here. I have never taken it out on WS. it would be counterproductive. Why add more LB's to the pile of LB's that I had already put there? Does nto make sense.

From what I skimed on Porches thread, it appeared that he presumed that WW did not want a DV. Was that his assumption or was it what Bin actually said.

I have a neighbor, who is divoreced and her H still thinks there is a chance. Why does he think this, because she is nice to him. However, he is nasty to her when he finds out that she was only trying to be friendly for the kids. She is engaged to another man, and xH still thinks he can get his W back. She divorced him because he was wrapped up in him (more to it, but this is the main part of it). He became verbally abusive when she told him she wanted a divorce.

From Bin's post, it sounds like Porche has been rather nasty to her.

I will recant another story, one of my own. I have a former fiance. There is more to it than what I am providing, I don't want to go into all of that. This fiance, told me, he understands that I have issues to overcome, after all, being molested by my father has to be hard to deal with. WHAT, this was the first I knew I was molested by my father. I came from a family of 7 girls, if my father was molesing his children, I'm sure I would not have been the only victim, out of 7, we all forgot. He was NUTS. The sad thing is, he believed it to be true. It was one of many reasons why I ended the engagement. He would call and leave vulgar messages with my father, my coworkers (at work). All the while telling me how much he loved me and wanted me back.

My point is, we don't know Porche, except for his post, we don't know Bin except for her posts. You are immediately assuming Bin is the one who needs to work on anger issues, and all other stuff. Each one is presenting things from their own perspective and should be respected as such. It is possible that Porche's anger is clouding his judgement and perspective. It is possible that the FOG is clouding Bin's judgement and perspective. That does not justify jumping all over Bin. Radical Honesty is one thing, jumping all over someone is something else.

We have only heard a small portion of Bin's story.

One more thing,

Bin says some of the OM happened after the separation. Keep in mind, that to some, you are married until you are divorced and should not be dating. While others, dating while seperated is okay.

I am not stating my views, just how other see things as acceptable behavior. I know of many who think once separated it is okay to date.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"yes unfortunately my daughter discovered me and a friend naked together but che did not see more than that, yes it was an irrisponsible act but i am human and it was christmas and i was very lonely and hurt that neil had another woman in my home on christmas day with my children and brought her gifts from him and them and that my kids came to me empty handed and were upset that they had no gift for me."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Christine, it may have been wrong for Neil to have had another woman in your home during Christmas, but at least he did not expose himself to your daughter like you did with your so called 'friend' under the excuse of him being hurt because you had another man in your apartment.

By the way,in case you didn't know, a naked male 'friend' in the company of a naked married woman, is apropriately called HER LOVER.

<small>[ January 20, 2003, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I'm going to chime in here blindly because I don't know much about either of you. As I understand it you are still married and you have kids.

Christine, I'm sorry that you are lonely, but putting the needs of your private parts in front of the emotional well-being of your children is quite frankly sickening. Your children are greiving the loss of a family and to further their insecurities by allowing them the opportunity to see you naked with your other man is emotional abuse.

You were a child of abuse, so I have to ask, where does the circle end when you are teaching your children through our own example of the wrong path.....?

I truly hope that the Lord enters you and your children's lives and make the crooked paths straight.

<small>[ January 20, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: LostHusband ]</small>