My stbxw and I will be starting the financial settlement soon. CS will be a big issue. She thinks she's entitled to 20% of my net income per month, period. That would be around $850. She doesn't believe or want to believe that her income factors into the equation. Also, we have a signed 50/50 custody agreement. I want to be fair to her and my daughter, but I need to protect my self also.

While we were still living together in better times, we shared the responsibility of raising our daughter equally. I made 60% of our total income, which means I paid for 60% of our daughter's care. Since we are getting divorced, yet still sharing the responsibility of raising our daughter equally, I think it would be fair that I continue to pay 60% of our daughter's care.

Let's assume the monthly cost of raising our daughter is 20% of our total income. Could be 22% or 25%, I'm just trying to make a point. Let's say 20% is $2000. Since we both have her half the time, we both incur $1000 of that cost. If I were to give my W $200/mth, I'd be paying $1000 + $200 = $1200 (60%) and she'd be paying $1000 - $200 = $800 (40%). To me that couldn't be more fair. Friends of mine think I shouldn't have to pay her anything since we are sharing custody equally, but I know the difference in our incomes factors in.

This formula was used my another member of this site in his CS settlement. The only difficulty is determining the cost of raising a child. Is it "x" amount depending on where you live or "x" percent of our incomes. It doesn't really matter how that number is derived, the rest of the factors still apply. Any thoughts?

sad dad

Sad Dad,
In Florida it is a % of income, I think your on the right track. the formula is on-line for the State of Florida also, you could check to see if your state has it that way. Good Luck and stand by your children. God Bless Lila

I am in the state of georgia. I pay 20% of my gross income to my ex for CS. Her income wasn't even considered, the courts don't care about anything except getting you out of the court room as fast as they can. Again 20% of my gross not net. If she is asking for 20% of you net income i think thats fair.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sad dad:
<strong>Also, we have a signed 50/50 custody agreement. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sad Dad,

My state has a formula and doesn't work by the "percentage" system. In cases where other than the standard custody arrangement is made, it is at the Judge's discretion to use a percent of the tabulated CS. In your case a Kansas judge my take what the standard CS is and lower it by 40 - 50%.

You say that you have already signed 50/50 arrangement. Is that a permanent order? My X signed a 50/50 agreement, then she found out how much money she wasn't going to get and went back on it. We ended up settling out of court.

Best of luck!!!!!!

need,

20% of your gross, that's rough. What's your custody agreement?

I don't think 20% of my net is fair. That would be over $800/mth. My W makes about $48k. There is no primary or custodial parent. It's a true 50/50 split so I'm already incurring halhf the costs.

Bill,

My state works on 20% of net, but that is based on a typical custody agreement with the child living with one parent most of the time. Doesn't apply in our case. Is our agreement permanent? I guess nothing about these kind of things is, it could always change. I just want to be fair and make sure my daughter is provided for. However, I want to protect myself so that I'm not strapped and so my W isn't using the money for herself. I'm not so worried about what I'll have to pay now as I am about what I'll have to pay down the road if my W remarries, has more kids and becomes a stay at home mom. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

sad dad

We have joint legal custidy but she is primary care giver.. Thats the state mandated % it could have been as high as 23% I pay 1650.00 a month.

My sister and her H got divorced. They live in Idaho. Both work. She makes slightly more than he does. They have true 50-50 custody. They split the expenses in half. How they figure it out though I don't exactly know. I know for a while he paid medical/dental and he paid childcare because the cost was about the same.

Difference was, my sis wanted out of the M (no A's- just couldn't take the problems anymore). Her H pretty much dictated the terms of the settlement but it was fair to everyone.

Have you talked to your lawyer about this? I would stand firm. Your wife is the one that wants out, maybe had an A, won't work on marriage. Of course it will be financially harder for BOTH of you to live separately. That's what happens when you D.

Also, you can take the money you save and earmark it for D's future someday- maybe for college or a car or a downpayment on a residence. You can't trust your WW to do that- she's not making decisions in D's best interest.

What does your lawyer say?

need,

$1650/mth! Ouch!!! There is no primary in our arrangement. My lawyer made that clear when she wrote up the agreement. We have equal say in all matters and each have our daughter half the time.

espoir,

That's exactly what I want to do, invest the savings in our daughter's future (college, wedding, first car, etc). I talked to my lawyer 6 months ago about this and she said worse case I'll pay 20% of the difference in our salaries.
Since I moved out 6 months ago, I've paid half the mortgage, home equity loan, joint credit cards, car insurance and day care. I did not give her any money directly towards child support because I was already paying half the expenses when she is with me.

The bottom line is I'll be as generous to my daughter as possible as always. I just want that generosity to be at my discretion, not my W's or a judge's.

Regarding your comment about my W not doing what's in my daughter's best interest, she recently received a call from the bank where we have a savings account for our daughter. Due to inactivity, they wanted to begin charging us monthly fees, so my W's solution was closing the account. I wanted to start making deposits. She asked "why?". I guess that says it all. I'll probably just open my own account for her.

sad dad

I don't understand why the cost of raising your daughter would be only 20% of your income. Do you spend less on her than you do on yourself? Why wouldn't the cost be about at least third of your total net income in the case of an intact family with one child? Children may eat a bit less (not my kids, however), but, unlike adults, they outgrow their clothes, their medical expenses are higher because they typically have more doctor visits, parents spend money on sports, classes, school supplies, books, toys, equipment, birthday parties. On the other hand, adults don't need much specifically for themselves - aside from food and a hundred or two per year to replace clothes that wear out, if you don't count graduate school expenses, all I spend on myself specifically is - let's see, I am trying to think of something - I went to a movie last fall, and one of my kids gave me a subscription to Family Circle...

Hey Sad Dad,

I don't know what state your in, but in Texas most cases are joint custody now, but one parent has to be primary. The child needs one primary residence, and the parent who chooses that primary residence is the one who usually gets the child support. That support for one child is 20% of net income.

I went to a child support class and they said the 20% net is not enough. That is why the courts already took in to account that the parent that pays 20% also has the kids 50% of the time so that makes up the difference in raising a child.

For instance, some of the things that aren't split with me and my ex are: school lunches, sports activities, school clothes, hair cuts, school supplies, etc. I pay those...

I do have to say though, he does not take the kids a full 50% of the time, probably more like 20% of time...

AND you know, although there are parents like you who stick to having them at least 50%, there are so many who neglect their rights and don't take their children, thus leaving one parent with the majority of the food cost, etc.

As for my ex, if we would had agreed to splitting cost 50/50, I could hear him now..."No, the children can't do sports, I can't afford it this month, I have a cel phone bill due...". Thank God I have child support behind me and am not in that position to argue with him on what the children need or don't need, the money is there for them and I use it.

Hope this helps a little.

Take care,

ANNA

I agree completely with the thought of child support. I want so much to provide everything that my children could ever need. Unfortunately, my wife thinks that because she was married to me for the last 11 years, that I should pay for her as well. Unfortunately, I do not feel that way.

I will always make sure that my boys are well cared for. That will mean that she will be living VERY WELL on their coat tails. Regardless of lack of alimony. She will be getting $2-3K for her 50% of the time with my boys. I hope that she will be able to make it work for them.

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

nellie, anna, formerly confused,

True, all those things you listed cost money, but the biggest expense is putting a roof over our kids heads. Now we'll have two roofs to pay for.

I don't know what the cost of raising a child is, 20%? 30%? 40%?. All I know is I was responsible for 60% of the cost while we were living together. Why should that change now? If the total cost is 1/3, that would be about $2400/mth. I'm already paying half that cost when my daughter's with me. My W expects another $800 or so on top of that, so I'd be paying $2000/mth vs. $400/mth for my W. Doesn't seem fair. Sure, we'll both have mortgages, utilities, etc. to pay, but that's the consequence of D. Both my W and I will have to make sacrifices for the sake of our daughter. Why should have to I sacrifice more than my W?

I don't know what yours and your ex's respective financial situations are. My W and I net over $85k/yr. We should be more than able to provide for our daughter without any change in her lifestyle.

I have no problem paying my share of any of my daughter's extra expenses (dance class, swimming lessons, sports, etc), I just want to know that money is going to my daughter and not for my W's car payment or facials or vacations...I wish I could trust that would be the case, but I don't.

I'm already incurring half the cost of raising her by having her half the time. I make more money than my W, so I should pay more, I just don't see why that should be more than it was before. What's changed except we don't live together and won't be married?

sad dad

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

sad dad, couldn't you request an accounting of the child support money you provide every month? Couldn't the courts enforce that for you? That would relieve one concern.
I know we have yet to discuss child support for our one remaining minor daughter, but my stbxh told her that he was not wanting to pay me child support because he was SURE she would never see a dime of it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I intend to beat him to the punch by making sure that I INSIST on providing him with a detailed account each month of how his precious $$ is being spent.
I'm not saying this is your outlook at all, but since you have concerns, why not have peace of mind by requesting this?

broken,

I really don't want it to come to that. What I'd like is if my W's out shopping and sees an outfit for my daughter, she buys it and if I see a pair of shoes for her, I buy them without going over the receipts and figuring out the difference every month. I don't want it to become petty like that. I want the financial ties between us to be kept to a minimum, not necessarily from a $$$ point of view, but from an interaction aspect.

Also, I get the sense that the assumption is being made that my W, being the mother, will be handling all the incidentals (shopping for clothes, signing her up for soccer, taking her to doctor appts, taking her for haircuts, etc).
That's not the way it is with us. I'm just as involved in her my daughter's life and those decisions as my W. Always have been and with a 50/50 custody arrangement, that's how it should be. That may not be the case with most fathers, but I'm not like most fathers.

sad dad

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: sad dad ]</small>

In CO, it's roughly 20% for one child & 25% for two. This is a percentage of BOTH incomes. The amount each is responsible for is a percentage based on their earnings.
IF dad earns $2000 and mom earns $1000, and mom has primary custody, then dad pays 2/3 of $600 (20% of $2000 + $1000)

Any amounts used for daycare, insurance are also taken into account and subtracted from whoever pays it.

Something like that.

What I'd like is if my W's out shopping and sees an outfit for my daughter, she buys it and if I see a pair of shoes for her, I buy them without going over the receipts and figuring out the difference every month. I don't want it to become petty like that.
Usually, any additional purchases made by the one paying child support do not count towards the monthly total. (If you buy $100 worth of clothes, you can't subtract $100 from your monthly CS.)

The bottom line is I'll be as generous to my daughter as possible as always. I just want that generosity to be at my discretion, not my W's or a judge's.
Parents say, "I want to do everything I can for my kids" and agree to a huge amount for CS. I thinks it's great they want to make sure their children are cared for. Personally, I would try to get a court order for the miminum & then make sure they have what they need by my purchases, Then you don't have to worry about the ex buying crack or whatever. The kids get what they actually need and no bickering over petty junk.

If you pay ANY CS, make sure you keep a log (date, $ spent and on what) of purchases for the kids (clothes, school supplies, paying for sports and classes and camp and such.) Then when the ex tries to go after more CS (they probably will) you can bring your log and show they do not lack anything based on what you have provided AND paid in CS.

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 12:43 AM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

The roof over the head- well, there's 50/50 custody so each of you is incurring the cost of a residence for your daughter. Each has to have a second bedroom. Each of you must have a car, and utilities for your house.

So let's think about direct child related expenses-

Food
Clothing
Medical Insurance
Medical Expenses (not covered by insurance)
Dental
After school activities
Summer child care and summer camp
Books, toys

And some of those costs will increase as daughter ages (clothing, summer camp), some will decrease (the cost of child care for example).

I do know with my sister, she and XBIL do handle some expenses individually. She wanted to get one daughter guitar lessons- he didn't care so my sis paid. He likes to take the kids skiing, so he paid for their season passes and ski rentals. And of course each spouse pays for the vacations each one takes the kids on.

I would sit down and do a budget for the items I've mentioned above. Do one for now, and then maybe estimate a budget for when she is older, in her teens.

Of course this may not help you if your state has fixed percentages or if they consider one parent to have the primary residence. What is your lawyer saying regarding the laws of your state?

You will have to fight your W no doubt since of course she wants to walk away with as much as she can.

In most states, the court will not require an accounting of how child support money is spent, because so much of what parents spend money on benefits the child. An example would be the car payment - without a car, the child would not be able to go to sports, to friend's houses, even to the doctor. How much car might be an issue - it would be hard to argue with the fact that a van would be a reasonable vehicle for a parent with several children - an expensive SUV, on the other hand, might well not be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Anna2000:
<strong>AND you know, although there are parents like you who stick to having them at least 50%, there are so many who neglect their rights and don't take their children, thus leaving one parent with the majority of the food cost, etc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sad Dad, I think your thinkin just right. Please excuse me while I ruffle a few feathers..

Namely Anna and Nellie,

Anna you know I luv ya dear and Nellie you know we never agree on anything. My point is simple and obviously we all make points based upon our own life circumstances.

I know we always hear about dead beat dads and yes that is the lowest form of life in my book. BUT there are also those moms out there who won't agree of custody because it would lower the MONEY and there are those who USE the generosity of the father who is trying to "Do the Right Thing".

Let's see, as y'all know, I have Joint/Shared Physical/Legal Custody of 3 girls and there is no "Primary Custodian" in our case. I pay 17% of my Gross income in CS and I've been paying that for almost 2 years. I also pay for the girls' medical insurance, I also carry life insurance policies on them, I also "Solely" paid for their counseling, I also buy them clothing, I also bought their school supplies, I also paid 50% of their winter coats, I paid for their summer camps, I also pay 71% of all medical bills, I also do a lot of things. In principle, CS is definately a needed item, but in reality the blanket that it's thrown under doesn't cover cases as it should. I'm quite sure some people should be getting less and quite sure that some people should be getting more.

So what is child support for:

Food & Clothing: Self explanitory - in Joint Physical custody situation it should not apply - except to offset income differences.

Shelter: House, Phone, Gas, Electric, etc. again in Joint Physical custody situation it should not apply - except to offset income differences.

Medical, Activities, & School: In my opinion, it should be split base upon income potential.

With all that being said let me take you back to August of last year. I was in the car with my 3 girls after doing their school supplies shopping, again which I paid for 100%, because mom said she didn't have any money. My middle daughter looks at me and asks if we can buy some more school clothes today. I reply, Honey, we are going to have to wait 2 weeks until my next payday because I just don't have the money right now. She wasn't happy with that answer so, for the first time, I said maybe you should ask your mom, you know I pay CS, and some of that money could be used for clothes. This seemed to peek the interest of my 10yo, as well as the others, and she asked what CS was for and how much it cost.

I explained that I pay XXX/mo, which blew their minds to begin with, and that it was to help with Food, Clothing, Shelter, Utilities, Activites, etc. Unsolicitated my 10yo verbally worked her way through the list:

But dad, mom doesn't pay any Rent, OM does. And Dad, Mom doesn't pay for the groceries, OM does. And Dad, Mom doesn't pay the bills, OM does. Mom does have a car payment and she does pay for her own cell phone (which periodically is turned off). Then Dad, if she doesn't pay for these things and she isn't spending it on us, what does mommy spend the CS on?

"That's a good question" was my only reply. Myki confronted her Mom about this the next time she was with her. And AMAZINGLY, the girls' went clothes shopping with their mom for basically the 1st time since I began paying CS in May 2001, granted I'm sure she's picked up little items here and there, just like I have. Since that day, I have noticed a difference in how much she is spending on the kids. In my opinion, she's still not spending enough on them, but she is doing better and I imagine it's because when she says "no" the CS conversation begins again.

As a side note, she consulted her ATTY, after my daughter confronted her about CS. And when she talked to me about it, she was livid.

I hope that you see my point through all this, if I even made one. There are Dads out there who do the right thing and there are those who are bums. There are moms out there who do the right thing and there are those who think it's a game trying to get every penny they can.

Hope I didn't ruffle any feathers. I just want everyone to know that every case is different. For me, it's easy to say that SAD DAD is over paying, because I feel that I am. While for y'all it may be easy to say he should pay more, because y'all need more. But without being able to look at all the circumstances of the case, none of us are qualified to make that judgement.

Great response LostHusband.
In answer to someone's comment.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> sad dad, couldn't you request an accounting of the child support money you provide every month? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, that would be another form of control, which no one needs once they are out of the M.
Most states estimate children's expenses based on the salaries of each parent, and split it as noted.
One child 50/50 time = 20% of the difference in salaries (depending on who carries the insurance).
This is where we should all rely on our lawyers.

My H is demanding 50/50 just to avoid CS, and he's claiming to make 1/3 of his prior income. My thoughts on CS for me: I expect to be fully able to support my children on my salary only, if I get CS, I plan to put itin a college fund, or camp fund, because like Anna2000, H will refuse to pay for any of those things.

Newly is right, that was a great response Lost husband. Ya know, they say don't put the kids in the middle of child support and adult issues, but you handled it perfectly and didn't accuse but just left it open for your children to think about. I think kids do have a right to know that child support is involved and the other person gets this. I bet LH's ex would have never told the kids and now They are getting more out of "their" support.

Newly is also right about asking for an accounting of money. That is very controlling. The only way I could see one parent has the right to ask for an accounting is if they see the children are not getting that roof over their heads, clothes, or food.

Boy, I am sure my ex would LOVE for me to have to account for every dime of the money he gives me for child support. It wouldn't even be about money, it would be him trying to find a way to make my life miserable and still have some control. He knows I always put the children's needs over mine and he knows I could easily give him an accounting of the money, but then what? Does he get a refund for that month if he doesn't agree with some of my purchases? Would he get a refund that month if I go under budget? Would I get more money if I go over one month? Which definitely I would...but then would he tell me "Yea you went over but there was no need to. You should have went under and not signed younger child up for that science adventure camp or if older child wouldn't have done year round swimming, etc., etc...." What a mess that would lead to.

Thank God the courts agree that parents should not have to account to the other parent for the CS money because my life would be miserable. I think I'd say, "No thanks, I don't want the support."

Anyway, good luck with your situation.

ANNA