O.K....... I am understanding when you guys tell me to be patient on God. That is real clear. But I am having trouble when you tell me not to push. I just need you all to tell me how I don't push. Let me tell you what I do now and maybe you all can guide me better.

I do call her and leave messages telling her that i was just wondering how her day was going and I love her. I do tell her I love her everytime I talk to her or see her. I do on occasion tell her I would give anything to be a family again and that a lot of people( church, friends, and MBers) are praying for us. I offer to help her with anything around her house when I am there.(Her dryer went out and I offered to fix it myself but she has declined so far). I do help her around the house if I can when I am there. I do send her the Saturday praise reports from rejoice ministries sometimes. I do try and call her just to talk but it is usually one sided(except for one week about three weeks ago, which I rejoiced over and thanked God for). I do leave her nice cards or notes in her car when I am in town getting kids. I do ask her and kids out to dinner(she does do that some). I do ask her to do things with me and kids(she has done that once but not recently).

When you say don't push, what do you mean and am I doing it all wrong?

Love in Christ
cajunky

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: cajunky ]</small>

Cajunky
There is no OW or OM involved in my divorce but it is still a divorce. We went through a lot of soulsearching, fighting and crying before I finally filed on 1/21/03. Since then my stbx has been treating me like a friend he has some additional interest in and I love it. Before he would push the envelope too much like you are doing and this both offended and angered me as if he could make the past go away with a few good deeds. I don't know when he light bulb went on in my stbx's head but he finally started giving me breathing room. Before he would make decisions without consulting me, he would take my presence for granted. Now he seems to understand that I am independant and he has to work hard to get my attention. He also has to respect my personal space and let me set the pace. Think of it like dating, there is a certain etiquette that applies and the fact that you were once married and have children with this woman does not change it. You have to also accept that your efforts may not be successful. Good luck
ruby

OK, Caj,
Let me have a try at this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I do call her and leave messages telling her that i was just wondering how her day was going and I love her. I do tell her I love her everytime I talk to her or see her.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good. But I hope NOT every day!! Every once in a while. I used to send my H a letter....one every 10 days or so. Just a "hello" and letting him know what is going on in my life. VERY "light" and NO relationship talk. Since he went ahead w/Div. I quit, and now we have NO contact at all. Be thankful you have the kids as a reason to keep in touch with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do on occasion tell her I would give anything to be a family again and that a lot of people( church, friends, and MBers) are praying for us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is bad.

I think she would see this as "pushy" and probably sounds (to her) like YOU shoving things down her throat. Like telling her what others think you two ought to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I offer to help her with anything around her house when I am there(Her dryer went out and I offered to fix it myself but she has declined so far). I do help her around the house if I can when I am there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does she take you up on the offers? No. SHE SEES THIS AS YOU PUSHING YOUR WAY INTO HER LIFE.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do send her the Saturday praise reports from rejoice ministries sometimes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bad, <strong>Bad</strong> BAD!!!!
Caj,
SHE's gotta want it!!! SHE will seek out God when He leads her to it. YOU can't shove anything down her throat. Not your own conversion (from your sins), not God, NOT restoration of your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do try and call her just to talk but it is usually one sided(except for one week about three weeks ago, which I rejoiced over and thanked God for).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The fact that it's one-sided should be telling you something....SHE DOESN'T WANT IT!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do leave her nice cards or notes in her car when I am in town getting kids. I do ask her and kids out to dinner(she does do that some). I do ask her to do things with me and kids(she has done that once but not recently).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm, sounds good, but NOT TOO OFTEN!!!!!!! See, she is telling you how much, by her accepting or declining the offer.

Listen, my brother, I want to try to be gentle when I say this:

GOD ALONE can "touch" your W's heart. I think you are still "holding on" to it (your situation) and therefore HINDERING God from being able to work. I hope that makes some sense to you.

I must quit now, as it's difficult to type tonight. I have been pulling up linoleum, in preparation of a man coming to lay tile on the family room floor. Doing this all alone sure is making me RESENT that my H left me this way. Please pray for me NOT to begin to get angry, cause it's been a tough week-end for me, and I'm very sore......

Caj,
Please PRAY before every contact w/W so that GOD IS IN CONTROL OF THE MEETING. I can see where you are pushing yourself on her when she doesn't want it. This will only push her further away. Why not try waiting till SHE contacts YOU next time? God will honor your stand AND your faith in believing He is at work, even if you can't see anything going on......

God Bless,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cajunky:
<strong>O.K....... I am understanding when you guys tell me to be patient on God. That is real clear. But I am having trouble when you tell me not to push. I just need you all to tell me how I don't push. Let me tell you what I do now and maybe you all can guide me better. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My brother in God, you and I are like night and day sometimes, I swear! But I thank God for you because I can see through your eyes maybe a little of what my H may be thinking or feeling like. I also thank God for what I've been through because hopeful it can be used for GOOD so you can see through my eyes maybe a little of what your W may be thinking and feeling.

So, let's start off with a quick prayer:

"God, take this thread and use it for Your purposes. Give cajunky to heart willing to hear Your message, and if it's Your will, use my fingertips to type. Amen."

Now let's get down to the nitty gritty. Oh, and BTW, no I am not conceited enough to think that what I say is God's word--I'm just hoping that maybe whatever message He's trying to get across to you might accidentally be included in what I type--heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do call her and leave messages telling her that Ii was just wondering how her day was going and I love her. I do tell her I love her every time I talk to her or see her. I do on occasion tell her I would give anything to be a family again and that a lot of people (church, friends, and MBers) are praying for us. I offer to help her with anything around her house when I am there (Her dryer went out and I offered to fix it myself but she has declined so far). I do help her around the house if I can when I am there. I do send her the Saturday praise reports from rejoice ministries sometimes. I do try and call her just to talk but it is usually one sided(except for one week about three weeks ago, which I rejoiced over and thanked God for). I do leave her nice cards or notes in her car when I am in town getting kids. I do ask her and kids out to dinner (she does do that some). I do ask her to do things with me and kids (she has done that once but not recently). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, my initial thoughts after reading all this are: #1--If my H was doing all that to me, I'd tell him, "BACK OFF BUDDY!!" It feels pretty smothery to me. #2--I am literally guessing here, but it sounds to me as if you are trying to maintain a hold on your W and stay in control and "make" it work out, rather than releasing the control to God and 100% entirely giving your W to God and taking your hands off the situation.

Pretty strong stuff to start off with, huh? Here's a quick, encouraging hug: {{cajunky}}

Please do not mistake my initial thoughts for being critical. It sounds to me as if you are doing what you are doing out of love and hope, and it is a good thing to put LOVE into action. I can see that you love your W and you are trying to behave in a way that will prove it to her that you have really changed, and you mean it this time, and you want her! However, as I said, if my H were behaving like you say you are behaving, my reaction would be, "What about all those chances I gave you when you said you had changed before—and you hadn’t? What about all the times you SAID you meant it and then went right back into the arms of another cyber-slut in a month? I GAVE you tons of second chances and you threw me aside like so much trash, so now I’m moving on to someone who values me. Stop it!" (Sorry it’s so harsh, but it’s honest at least.) And continuing and continuing and continuing after I’ve said "Stop it" is effectively saying to me, "I don’t care about what you want or what you’ve said, I want MY way. Your boundary was for me to stop it, and I’m not listening. I’m going to trample all over your boundary and not respect it."

Now, don’t go getting all blue and guilty. I suspect your motives are good and your heart is TRULY in the right place, so I will tell you what would work a WHOLE LOT BETTER for me…in hopes that maybe your W is similar to me.

The first thing that would work is if I say, "Stop IT!" that the response would be, "I hear that you are not comfortable with what I’m doing so I’ll stop" and then stop. This would give me confidence that I will be heard and that what I want matters. It’s like reassurance that if I say no, it will be respected. I am valuable enough to be listened to.

Next, remember what I said about understanding your W’s pain? That’s a MAJOR BIGGIE for me…and my goal is not to make my H miserable or to have him sit in his room, alone and sad, feeling bad about what he did years and years ago. No, rather my goal is to feel as if he really understands how much it hurt me to put my trust in him again, and then discover an infidelity, not through honesty but by accident!…or to feel as if he can empathize with how much it hurt to talk myself into giving him another chance and then find out he was lying to me again…or to feel as if he can sympathize with all the nights I went to bed crying from my soul aching for him because he was not in my bed and he was with her. These are deep, deep wounds, cajunky, that may be forgiven but can not be healed by being nice to me for a few weeks. Do you understand? I hope you NEVER, EVER know what it feels like to have your world fall out from under your feet and lose your family, spouse, job, and business all at the same time because your spouse moved in with their lover. I pray you NEVER, EVER have to lose your mind when you find that your spouse has spent hours and hours ignoring you and going onto matchmaker sites and nude porno sites. ARGH!!! It hurts to the core like no pain I have ever experienced—I’ll tell you that! All the nights I wondered if it was ME—if I was thinner or looked pretty enough or behaved a certain way or stopping being angry…would he come to ME then? So, do you get this cajunky??

In summary, I would feel as if he really understood, and really empathized, and really sympathized, and knew the torture and heartbreak of it all if he would apologize, apologize, and then apologize some more!…if he would stop making promises and just ACT different…if he would stop trying to fix me and keep his focus on protecting his own heart from his own weaknesses…if he would TELL ME what his weaknesses are and humbly admit to me that his behavior hurt me!…if he would open up to me about how he was wrong and reveal his WHOLE self to me, faults and all…if he would sorrow a godly sorrow, and by that I mean REPENT: do a 180 and completely change!!

See, you are doing REALLY WELL on that regard, cajunky. Your heart and mind are renewed and completely new, so you have admitted to yourself and to God what you have done. That’s more than about 99% of people would do right there! So take a little time and feel good about that, okay? I’m proud of you, and I am SO MUCH on your side and praying for primarily because of this—because God HAS worked in your life and is moving! I am firm and confident that God WANTS to do a mighty work through you and your W as a demonstration of His power and as a demonstration to others of what can be done!

Now, one by one, I’ll tell you my thoughts about all the little things you mentioned, and then maybe what might work better for me:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do call her and leave messages telling her that I was just wondering how her day was going and I love her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’d feel a little like, "Stop calling me every day! We are divorced! And you had your chance to love me and threw me away!" I know it’s harsh and rough around the edges, so please remember this is perhaps radical honesty that you don’t really want to hear. It would work a lot better for me if my H would quickly touch base, tell me one thing about his day or meeting and ask me one thing about my day, and end with something like, "Well, it was nice (pleasant, fun) talking to you. Have a good night and I’ll call at X:XX to tell you about ___ or say goodnight." Try to disengage just a little bit and treat her like you best buddy and good friend, not the woman you are TRYING SO HARD to get to love you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do tell her I love her every time I talk to her or see her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is just my personal opinion, but that is pretty pushy. I would feel like I was being overwhelmed and forced to say "I love you" back when I don’t really FEEL that way. I would very much prefer ending with something pleasant but not "I love you"…such as, "I had a good time!" or "It was good talking to you; I enjoyed it" or "Hey, it was good seeing you—you’re good company." I’d prefer if my H would take a minute to explain to me that he realized he had been overwhelming me and maybe making me feel like forcing me to say something I don’t feel…so, for a little while he’s going to do what I asked and back off on the "I love you’s" and just be pleasant. I would even appreciate that I doesn’t feel pressured to feel something I don’t feel!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do on occasion tell her I would give anything to be a family again and that a lot of people (church, friends, and MBers) are praying for us. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OUCH! Big lovebuster, I bet. I would feel like I hung in there for SO LONG, and wished and prayed and LONGED for my H to pick me and pick the family, and NOW he is pulling the spiritual card on me?? Ha! This is really pushy, and I would pretty much RUN when I heard words like this. I would have given my soul to the devil if my H would have just been faithful to me, and hey…you know me! I’m a very god-loving woman…and I would have done ANYTHING to have a H who would keep his focus on me and our family!! (Sad, huh??) Anyway, I would back WAY, WAY, WAY off on this one, because I bet it is coming across as super preachy and stuff. Just let us faithfully pray…for you and for her…and by God, cajunky, YOU faithfully pray for her too! But keep all that to yourself and let the prayer warriors just silently stand in the gap. If you EVER say anything about being a family again, here’s what would work for me… "What do YOU want?", "How do you feel when I come to the house?", "How do you feel after talking with me?", " Do you feel like I constantly tell you how you should be?", "Do I sound selfish?", "Have I shown any interest in YOUR reality, hopes and dreams?", "Are you experiencing trauma from the things I said and did for years?", "Could you like a person who has been self-centered and abusive for a long time?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I offer to help her with anything around her house when I am there. (Her dryer went out and I offered to fix it myself but she has declined so far.) I do help her around the house if I can when I am there. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, boy, I have to admit, I’m starting to feel bad here…and a little sad. However, I will bravely press on. In reality, I would be HIGHLY hesitant to accept much help because if I do, then I am "obligated" and I would "owe him one." Okay, this is not the most healthy relationship behavior (owing each other and one-upmanship) but it’s the truth of how I would feel. If I have you help me change a lightbulb, then I owe you dinner or have to be nice to you…but if I figure out a way to change the lightbulb myself or have a friend change it, then they don’t hold it over my head forever and I don’t "owe" them. However, with my friends and people who just like me for who I am, I do not feel like they have an ulterior motive (like getting back together)—they just help me because they like me and would be helpful if they could with no strings attached. Try to evaluate if you’ve been communicating something like, "I’ll fix your dryer if you’ll go out with me" and if you’re really honest with yourself, I’ll guess that you might be able to see how she might feel that way. Then, try to back off just a little and act more like her FRIEND… "Hey, I know how to fix a dryer—want me to look at it and see if I can do anything? No strings!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do send her the Saturday praise reports from rejoice ministries sometimes. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cajunky, is your wife a christian? Or more precisely, does she have a personal relationship with God right now (lots of people are christian and not in close with God—and lots of people are close with God but not "christian")? The reason I ask is because if she is NOT very close with God right now, sending her the Praise Reports may come across like that preachy stuff I mentioned before…like you’re pulling the spiritual card. Speaking for myself, I just hate it when my H starts laying spiritual blame on me…not because what he’s saying is true (like for example, I really DO need to let go of the past), but rather because he was a cheater and hurt me so much for so long and now he has the audacity to get all spiritual on me? I know, that’s a pretty petty and immature way to feel, but that is my first human reaction! YIKES. It would probably go a LOT further if he sent me the Praise Reports and told me what in the Praise Report spoke to HIM about HIMSELF and what HE needs to work on. Then he’s showing me his faults and being honest and open with me, and keeping his focus on him and his spiritual growth. This is a little like taking someone else’s moral inventory. You are responsible for YOUR inventory, and I am responsible for MY inventory.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do try and call her just to talk but it is usually one sided (except for one week about three weeks ago, which I rejoiced over and thanked God for). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, this is a mystery to me, because I kind of like it when my H calls to just talk. Sometimes I wish he would address some of the REAL issues instead of just chit-chat, but I also like the quick "touch base" kind of calls. Then again, I am an Introverted, Intuitive, Feeler, Perceiver (INFP) and I like those little daily connections. For me, I envision that I have little emotional "feelers" and I like having my feelers just contacting another person and knowing that they are "out there." Maybe if you tried to talk to her about stuff that SHE is interested in, like HER dreams (like, does she like to travel??) or an article that SHE found interesting or something that SHE finds captivates her mind and makes her think, or some music SHE enjoys…something like that. Hey, let’s be honest. We all like talking about ourselves! Heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I do leave her nice cards or notes in her car when I am in town getting kids. I do ask her and kids out to dinner (she does do that some). I do ask her to do things with me and kids (she has done that once but not recently). </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pushing, pushing and more pushing!! If I were overkilled with cards and notes now…well, actually *I* would love it because my H has always chosen the OW over me and never pursued me, so I think it’s a bit of a different story. BUT…I might also think of all these cards and letters now as excess—like "You had your chances and you blew them all, and now that I’ve finally moved on with my life…NOW you pursue me??" It’s a little like that song that says, "…you didn’t want me ‘til I was gone." Honestly, these flowery actions smell a little like a bribe to me…as if he is just on a mission to get me back, out of a motive of selfish manipulation. Yes, BTW, it does seem selfish to me. I have very clearly stated that I’m not interested and that I want space and don’t want to be married…and he WANTS me to be interested and to live together and to be married, so he’s ignoring me and what I want and saying HIS wishes are more important than mine. I’d probably feel a little more comfortable with, "Hey, I’m taking the kids to Chuckie Cheese…want to come?" or "We were going to go bumper bowling…want to watch??" or if he just HAD leave a note, it would work if it was a note about what HE was learning during this valuable timeout. Does that make sense??

Okay…time to summarize. Cajunky, I feel as if I have filleted you in public…yet this forum is the main place that I feel comfortable talking to you this openly—in private would be inappropriate! To be succinct, I would say keep your focus on yourself and learn the lessons YOU need to learn…and give your wife to God and let her learn the lessons she needs to learn. Work on YOUR 12 Steps and YOUR program, and practice every day letting go. Pray every single day…maybe a couple of times a day…for a heart willing to keep giving your wife to God and for God to work in her heart in HIS time. Give her up, cajunky, and I don’t mean "give up on her"…I mean offer her to God as His precious, priceless dear-one. Give her back to Him. And then let Him work in you. Nicely think of her as your football buddy and just treat her like someone you REALLY LIKE…okay??

Oh, my…I swear cajunky I am so praying for you. It is SUCH a miracle that you have had the courage to face yourself and admit what was going on in your life. I can’t tell you strongly enough how proud I am of how far you’ve come, and more than anything, I hope and pray that you really hear that message. And all this I’ve written to you…it’s with the prayer that you might catch a glimpse of how your wife might possibly feel.

Your true and faithful friend,

CJ

I pretty much agree with the others, there is a fine line between communicating and obsessing, you come across as obsessing, and that is a major "push". Let her go, what will be will be, that means you must "act" accordingly, as an important family member, but not a H (cause you aren't a H). In short, respect her boundaries, she will tell you (I assume) what is ok and what is not, respect that and you should be ok.

Hey Caj,

Just wanted to let you know I was thinking 'bout ya. I think I would pretty much agree with Lupolady and Faithfulwife. I know my W was pretty turned off when she thought I was being "needy". She wanted to know that I was strong enough to live w/o her, and wanted her because I loved her not because I needed someone and she just happened to be there. If I couldn't be strong w/o her how could I be strong for her when she was weak.

Personnally, I think it is important that she knows you love her. It can be done in ways she will see other than saying "I love you". You can probably do things she will appreciate. My W is into cute and soft things. So I would pick one up and just drop it off for her to find w/ a note just saying "Hi". I never miss chance to tell her she's beautiful (in one way or another). I'd do small (really small) things for her in "commando raid" fashion. All of these things tell her you love her and she is special, but they are done in a variety of ways.

If you are calling her everyday, she will feel smothered. And that is very unappealing to people in general. Remember she has to feel safe around you in order to open up and accept you meeting her needs. She can't feel like you are there with a crowbar to pry out her feelings every time you are together. Give her something refreshing with no strings attached.

It's a fine line you walk my friend. That's why I agree whole heartedly with Faithfulwife's suggestion of praying everytime before you speak to her.

Let us know what you think? My prayers are with you.

God bless you brother. Love in Christ.

S&C

Hi Cj,

I'll throw my 2 cents in. I would say step back and take a look. While I believe in faith and know God can work miracles, look how you look to her. Remember she's changed, she's not the same in all aspects.

She's a DV'd woman [Single]. She has a choice to 'Date' you or somebody else [hope not though] therefore, you have to think like this is not your wife but a woman that you have to impress by descretion, yep, play a little hard to get, I'm sure she's thinking what does he have to offer that I want to get involved again. Would you do all that to a woman you just met?? What you're doing is straight to marriage actions and not 'Dating' let us get to know each other stuff. What are you going to do if she starts going out with someone to dinner, how will you impress her?? I know she said she " I love you" but she hasn't fallen romantically in love with you, be careful. Another question? If you push and push and what if she gave into sex with you before commitment, would she feel shame later and run further since her heart is not toward you yet?

She's like a stallion [excuse my expression ladies] but do you hop on a horse from the wild that just came into your reach? No, that horse has to know you care and that you're no threat, no demands or commandments, that horse will keep at a distance and even kick you down if you invade it's space. Your exw is like a horse thats been brusied and it remembers what you did last time you rode it and it ran away into the wilderness for a time and its back, therefore its not going to let you on it yet. Yes, it may let you feed it sometimes, go for walks, clean the stall, lay some hay, but still you're not getting on.

Some will break a horse to let them on through force and breaking it's will, others have learned the best way to ride is through trust, softwords and time.

As they say, if you love it let it go, if it's yours it will return to you.

WOW.......first of al let me say THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. I have grown to love all of you for your honest opinions and for being there to help and give encouragement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Lupo wrote: GOD ALONE can "touch" your W's heart. I think you are still "holding on" to it (your situation) and therefore HINDERING God from being able to work. I hope that makes some sense to you. Please PRAY before every contact w/W so that GOD IS IN CONTROL OF THE MEETING
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are so right. I am holding on and hindering God from doing what he does best. I do pray everytime before I talk or see my wife but maybe I need to listen closer about whether or not to contact her.

Faithfulwife.... Let me start out by telling you I have been praying for about four weeks now for God to truelly show me what to do different for the restoration of my marriage and to show me the things that I could improve on to allow my wife to begin to trust me.I truelly believe God has put you here at this time for me to listen to and learn from. You wouldn't believe how the last three post you have made to me has had such an impact on how I see my wife and understand how she feels. This post really hit home. I have copied all three of your post to me and I am carrying them in my bible to reflect on. I have gotten lots of other great advice but yours is so special because you are in the exact postion as my wife.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Faithfulwife wrote: But I thank God for you because I can see through your eyes maybe a little of what my H may be thinking or feeling like. I also thank God for what I've been through because hopeful it can be used for GOOD so you can see through my eyes maybe a little of what your W may be thinking and feeling.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope I can give you the same insight as you have given me as to how our spouses are thinking and how we can maybe restore our marriages.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds to me as if you are doing what you are doing out of love and hope, and it is a good thing to put LOVE into action. I can see that you love your W and you are trying to behave in a way that will prove it to her that you have really changed, and you mean it this time, and you want her! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are so right. I love my wife so much and I just didn't know how to show her except to always try and be in front of her somehow. Trying to prove I wasn't the man I use to be. This caused me to have blinders on to my wifes feelings and what she wanted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I would feel as if he really understood, and really empathized, and really sympathized, and knew the torture and heartbreak of it all if he would apologize, apologize, and then apologize some more!…if he would stop making promises and just ACT different…if he would stop trying to fix me and keep his focus on protecting his own heart from his own weaknesses…if he would TELL ME what his weaknesses are and humbly admit to me that his behavior hurt me!…if he would open up to me about how he was wrong and reveal his WHOLE self to me, faults and all…if he would sorrow a godly sorrow, and by that I mean REPENT: do a 180 and completely change!!

See, you are doing REALLY WELL on that regard, cajunky. Your heart and mind are renewed and completely new, so you have admitted to yourself and to God what you have done. That’s more than about 99% of people would do right there! So take a little time and feel good about that, okay? I’m proud of you, and I am SO MUCH on your side and praying for primarily because of this—because God HAS worked in your life and is moving! I am firm and confident that God WANTS to do a mighty work through you and your W as a demonstration of His power and as a demonstration to others of what can be done!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Perhaps I do need to tell her more that I am sorry for the deep hurt I have caused her. I have told her a lot of times but I need to convey to her how I understand the deepness of her hurt and tell her how so so so so sorry I am for it. I need to continue to work on me and let God have her to work his works in her. I have done a 180 but there is still so much more I want to learn about me and how I can better understand my wifes hurts so I can better serve her.

I am a firm believer also that God is going to do a mighty work through us to and we will be able to give him all the glory and be able to help other couples.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Cajunky, is your wife a christian? Or more precisely, does she have a personal relationship with God right now (lots of people are christian and not in close with God—and lots of people are close with God but not "christian")? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes she is a christian and she is finally back in church a little bit. We had a great church but when she moved she wasn't in church for a while but she has found one and she has even started a womans bible study. I praised God for this because I know God will speak to her heart through his word.

You haven't filleted me but you have said things that I really needed to hear so I could go in the proper direction to restore my marriage. I am working my steps still and I pray at least 5 times a day for my wife and for our relationship. In fact I have made it a practice to pray for my wife everyday at 9:00 no matter what I am doing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Oh, my…I swear cajunky I am so praying for you. It is SUCH a miracle that you have had the courage to face yourself and admit what was going on in your life. I can’t tell you strongly enough how proud I am of how far you’ve come, and more than anything, I hope and pray that you really hear that message. And all this I’ve written to you…it’s with the prayer that you might catch a glimpse of how your wife might possibly feel.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You don't know how much I feel the prayers from everybody. I have heard the message loud and clear from you and I have actually started to practice it tonite. I have such a clearer vision of how my wife feels and what I need to do to make her feel better and maybe start trusting me again.

Steadfast.... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are calling her everyday, she will feel smothered. And that is very unappealing to people in general. Remember she has to feel safe around you in order to open up and accept you meeting her needs. She can't feel like you are there with a crowbar to pry out her feelings every time you are together. Give her something refreshing with no strings attached.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are so right. Friend do things with nothing attached and that is what I need to do for my wife.

Thanks for your advice

Everlasting..... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She's a DV'd woman [Single]. She has a choice to 'Date' you or somebody else [hope not though] therefore, you have to think like this is not your wife but a woman that you have to impress by descretion, yep, play a little hard to get, I'm sure she's thinking what does he have to offer that I want to get involved again. Would you do all that to a woman you just met?? What you're doing is straight to marriage actions and not 'Dating' let us get to know each other stuff. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is what is so hard and I think one of the major reasons I was pushing so hard to show her I had changed and that I LOVE HER so much is the fact that she is dating the army guy she was engaged to.

I know, I know, give her space and let God do his work but I thought I had given it all to him to take care of but after reading all the advice I realized very quickly I hadn't even begun to give it to God. I was trying to do it myself and this is a God size task and I need to step back and just let God handle it.

I just want to close by sharing part of what I had journaled on Fri. Jan.31. My wife was going out of town with the guy she is dating.

The thought of her spending the weekend with someone else and making love and holding someone else makes me so sad I just feel my heart at my feet. I LOVE my wife and want to look her in the eyes again and hold her in the middle of the room while I am hugging her as tight as I can and tell her "I LOVE YOU and I am so sorry about the past." then have her hugg me and kiss me and say " I LOVE YOU too. I forgive you."

Again I thank all of you for your input and if you have anymore please feel free to tell me because I am here to learn from your experiences.

Love in Christ
cajunky

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: cajunky ]</small>

CJ,

I agree with lupolady all the way. She took the words out of my mouth.

I have been waiting for my husband to come home for 3 years. It is hard not to "push". Things started changing when I finally gave it to God and stopped contact unless my husband did the contacting first.

God, has really been moving in my life lately.
For the FIRST time in 3 years, my husband told one of my friends at church that he was thinking about coming home. All other times anyone has talked to him about our marriage , he has always said ," I will never come home." He has not mentioned anything to me and I will not bring it up. When I got home last night and read the devotional from Rejoice that Bob wrote, I knew God was moving because it was all about when the spouse is "thinking" about coming home.I was in such awe at God speaking to me like that.

I believe your wife will come home. You have been faithful to God and are standing strong. Please, wait on the Lord. Trust Him completely by letting go. God is moving in your life and I praise Him for it. Keep up the good work and do just as lupo said.

God has restored two of my friends marriages recently. We have been praying for these marriages about 2 years.I am seeing Him move in others also. These are ones I know from my church.

be encouraged,

gentle

<small>[ February 05, 2003, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

I also agree with Lupo and Faithful, this is very wise advise Caj, If you've ever read the book "Love Must Be Tough" it gives an illustration of two people close(we'll call them 1 & 2),First phase, 1 starts to pull away, 2 moves closer, second phase, 1 pulls even further away, 2 moves closer yet. This makes 1 feel threatened and moves even further away, 2 panics & grabs on to 1, which makes 1 run!
Now when the second phase happens, if 2 were to maybe move away from 1 a little, this would make 1 turn their head, and move back to the original closeness. Does this make sense? Dr. Dobson illustrates this very well with pictures, if you can get the book it may make more sense to you.

We all have so much to learn. As far as going ahead of God, it is so easy to do, and if we don't listen to His still small voice carefully, we will not hear it at all, because our own plans will be too loud to hear Him.

This past Monday was my H birthday, I had planned to call him, but I didn't rush into it. When I got to work, I got a break around 4pm and decided to call him then, but thank God He is in control and knows whether or not I should call. When I did call, he had left work early and I was unable to talk to him. I see this as God protecting me from another dissapointment. I will be going to his part of the country within a few weeks, and am praying that God will give me clear direction wether or not to call him to get together or not.
I really want it to be God's will not mine, but my own desire to contact H is really a struggle.
I know I have to do it God's way, and if I am to contact my H, then God will make it absolutely clear to me. I do not wish to disrupt God's plan or timing! It's so hard sometimes to just "Let go and let God", but that is what we must do....

God be with you Caj, my prayers are with you!
Love in Christ, SW

cajunky:

---I am holding on and hindering God from doing what he does best. I do pray everytime before I talk or see my wife but maybe I need to listen closer about whether or not to contact her.

---I have such a clearer vision of how my wife feels and what I need to do to make her feel better and maybe start trusting me again.

TR-I would like to comment on this..I notice in your posts you keep refering to her as YOUR WIFE!!
She is no longer YOUR WIFE...as you signed the divorce papers..

I realize this is hard to fathom..but you really do need to let her go..and allow God to work in her life..

have you considered how much more God could work in her life if you stepped out of the picture?

I mean..God could show her just how much she needs HIM in her life if you aren't always there for her..I hate to word this in this manner but stop trying to play God to her by trying to do things God may want her to learn to handle herself..How can God work in her heart and in her life if you try and jump in and try and 'save' her?

It may also be God trying to tell you..Back OFF Buddy...That's MY Responsibility NOT yours!!

Maybe pray about that...God am I stepping on YOUR toes here?? Am I trying to take over Your role in her life?? And then sit and listen...to what the Holy Spirit says to your heart...

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Thorned wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I notice in your posts you keep refering to her as YOUR WIFE!!
She is no longer YOUR WIFE...as you signed the divorce papers..

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really am having a hard time not referring to her as my wife. I know we are divorced but to me she is still my wife. I know this is a way of letting God have it. I really hate the word ex-wife so I came up with what I will say today. Former-wife is the term I am going to try and use.

Thorned wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It may also be God trying to tell you..Back OFF Buddy...That's MY Responsibility NOT yours!!

Maybe pray about that...God am I stepping on YOUR toes here?? Am I trying to take over Your role in her life?? And then sit and listen...to what the Holy Spirit says to your heart...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the input. You are so right. I think I am doing nothing but stepping on Gods toes and getting in his way.

Still...I will pray for you to see Gods will in your matter. Believe me I know how it feels to want to call your former-spouse so bad and when you pray about it you think you hear God saying do it but it is only your own mind saying "do it" and you talk yourself in to thinking it was God telling you to.

Love in Christ
cajunky