Well, it doesn't look like there will be a restoration of this marriage...not even close. You will probably be amazed to find out that saddens me, after all, why in the WORLD would I even want to be with a man who has cheated on me 13 times (that I know of--there are probably more), who was so abusive he burned my books, who is so rageful and hateful even now that he won't even sit and hug me and "be there" for me?? Who would want that?? To be honest with you, I sure don't! But I really was hoping and praying that God would work in his life and soften his heart.

Oh well. That isn't going to happen. At least, not now...not for years and years and years. Like one recent thread said, I believe God has the power to restore this marriage, I just don't think He's going to CHOOSE to use that power this time. I believe He is giving my H the free will that we all have, and He's going to allow my H to lose his marriage, wife, kids, and home for his SA and rage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

* * * * *

FYI to update: my H and I are separated and were pretty much in Plan B--with periodic contact re: the kids and visiting and stuff. Then, about a week ago, I lost my job and was just a MESS over it because I thought it was the perfect job for me. I felt like giving up and "forget about being a moral woman because look what it's gotten me"...that kind of thing. Well, my H came over that night and was comforting and it was unusual but so exciting. I was so grateful!! So, like an idiot, I agreed to start talking about maybe reconciling and we agreed to talk about what it would take and at least not move forward with the divorce right now.

Now all that is shot to you-know-where!

About 2 days ago, I wrote him a medium long email about feeling insecure and how I feel LAST in his life after work and projects. I used the analogy that it's like having a life foundation made of warm jello, and I told him that it would make a HUGE difference in my life if I knew that when I really, really needed him--physically or emotionally--he would "be there" for me. For the past, well, three days now, he has basically blown that letter off even though it is of vital importance to me, so in fact, I still do feel last in his life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> He told me he had copied it over into a Word document so he could reply to it, but a) he didn't have the time because he was so busy, and b) as of last night he told me he hadn't even READ IT...he was just lying to me to string me along.

Oh heartbreak! I was sharing something IMPORTANT with him. I openned my heart and made myself a little bit vulnerable. WHAT A FOOL!!

Last night he came over to work on some hard drives we need for the weekend, and he was exhausted (got to bed at 2am for the past 2 nights), so I took him by the hand and had him lay down and take a nap. The nap was needed I think, and he seemed to appreciate it. But when he woke up, he was in anger mode--I could see it on his face. It's like he has a whole different face! Anyway, he's contemplating starting a new job and he said he'd need to depend on me a whole lot more to "get stuff done", and I responded that I have noticed that I am able to concentrate at work A LOT BETTER and stay focused and be more productive when I feel secure and stable. This, of course, launched into a "you're blaming me for your own lack of discipline at work, and you're just too lazy to do the work, and you've always said you hate the work anyway so you're just looking for an excuse not to do it..." You get the drift. After that, his heart was hard...closed...he wouldn't even listen to me and wouldn't even try. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

In an effort to keep it on me, I will say that all day yesterday, I was feeling really dumped...and I told him so too. I fought it all day long and would have pretty much given ANYTHING to have some hugs and reassurance--take some time out for ME! Oh well. Also, I really do need to discipline myself to stay focused at work EVEN IF my personal life is a shambles and falling apart...even if I have no one there for me. I need to learn to do better at being MY OWN foundation!!

But I'm just not there yet, and to be honest, I truly do not think it's unreasonable or outrageous or crazy for a "wife" to ask her "husband" to occasionally be there...offer hugs...offer emotional support...care that he's hurting her and stop...and in an "emergency" to put her AHEAD of everything and everyone else!! If I'm sick enough to go to the hospital, I'd like him to cancel at least one meeting so he can come be with me in the hospital!! That kind of thing.

Oh well. It's just not going to happen--at least not with this man. I should have learned that lesson years ago, but I kept holding out hope and wishing/praying/thinking that maybe one day he'd be soft-hearted to me...maybe be gentle and understand what I've been through.

So, it looks like the divorce will move forward. Weird, isn't it...that I'd be sad about that? But I am.

CJ

Faithful, I'm sorry you are feeling this way.
Maybe it will take the D to change some hearts.
God is not finished with your WS or you yet, keep that in mind. You are looking at the storm around you, you've taken your eyes off of Jesus, and seen the circumstances, therefore you are sinking as Peter did when walking on the water to Jesus. It's easy to do.
Our emotions can get so out of wack, and our actions working from emotions is not good. Take some time to rest in the Lord, and let Him show you what He wants of you. You know He will.
In the meantime, I and others here will pray for you, hang in there and don't let the devil get a foothold!
God Bless, SW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>So, it looks like the divorce will move forward. Weird, isn't it...that I'd be sad about that? But I am.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am scratching my head here, because...well, OK, I'm scratching my head because it itches, but I really don't understand why you think this is weird.

Regardless, though, CJ, you know that your husband is going to have to change radically before he is capable of being a healthy partner for you (or anyone). Dropping a warm fuzzy every now and then just isn't going to cut it.

Still, though, it's been a real roller-coaster for you over the last couple of weeks or so, hasn't it? {{{CJ}}}

I'm following GNOME on this thread because, well OK, I feel like following Gnome on this thread. Plus, the words that jump of his keyboard are always so darn good.

Anyway, everything I wanted to say was what he already said. Dangit, Gnome, I've heard "You took the words right out of my mouth" but my finger's. C'mon MAN... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Anyway, my (((((((CJ)))))) may the amazing grace of our Lord be with you and your family always...

{{{{cj}}}}
I really feel for you because I've been through scenarios that feel similar with my STBXH. Last night I followed a link from anewhope on notpeachyinga's thread to a website for narcissistic personality disorder. Wow. I saw my H and myself. It was disturbing. I don't know if you'd relate, but the verbal and emotional abuse, the numerous A's, the substance abuse, the lying, the inability to "be there" for you while expecting to be able to "depend on you a whole lot more," are all hallmarks of NPD, as I understand it. Check it out. I'd love to know what you think about it...

I visited my in-laws today and, for the 1st time, my FIL admitted to knowing about (and meeting the OW) at least one of H's A's and claimed to have spoken to him about it for carrying on in our house infront of his son while I was away working to support them. This took place about 10-11 years ago, right around the time we got married.

I'm beginning to recover from my own "fog" and to realize that my H isn't really capable of love. I'm realizing that I need to work hard on my own recovery to get over my attraction to the excitement and the danger of an emotionally unavailable man. I don't want to ever fall in love again with someone who is incapable of loving me back, who will only hurt me, betray me, use me, and eventually leave me.

I know I'm still vulnerable and that's why I maintain complete NC. This Friday my STBXH has his trial confirmation hearing on charges stemming from breaking into my house, trashing it, threatening to kill me in front of a witness, etc. If he chooses to go ahead with the trial, I'll be subpoenaed. I hope that doesn't happen.

Anyway, we'll get through this. I'm still sad, too, mostly for the loss of my illusions... Take care, L

Just had to jump in with a quick note about the web site mentioned by LetsTry. It is a good one, very enlightening.
I'd heard the word "narcissist" in the past, but never really understood it. So many of the traits in the list I can attribute to my WH. I believe that the person having the affair draws even more "power" from the emotional connection the BS has, despite the fact they STRESS not wanting to have anything to do with you. They still keep the door open ever so slightly, hoping maybe to....I don't know what, but still exert some power over you. Not love, but power.

I'm tired, maybe this doesn't make any sense, but it seems to happen with my situation.
God bless you as you struggle to come to terms with this.

{{{CJ}}}

It's been a LONG time that we've been on this site, much less working to keep our sanity, kids, house and work all going smoothly. You've held on to your belief and your love longer than I did.

The previous posts about Narcissitic Personality Disorder are right... my ex hit positive on all indicators for the disorder. It was a relief to the girls and I to find out he was mental and that there was nothing we ever did, or would do to make it better. It is a disorder that they are born with, that progressively gets worse as they age (so yes, when we met them, there were probably indications, but nothing to what they ended up like 10 years later), and there really is no "cure" for it. Counseling can sometimes help, but usually the NPD person feels they are more knowledgeable than the doctor. Reading the write ups of children growing up with an NPD parent were like looking into my kids' lives.

It is all about power and control and me, me, me. They do just the right amount of stuff to keep up appearances, can be extremely charming, but upon first impression, most feel the extreme arrogance.

It doesn't help knowing that most serial killers are NPD, Ted Bundy was classic. I was channel flipping one night and the movie with Mark Harmon as Ted Bundy was on... It was horrifying because it was like watching my ex on the screen! The mannerisms, the way they spoke and what they said... all too spooky. Is my ex a serial killer? No, but I think he is very capable of it... he has that little regard for life if it isn't his.

Take care of yourself and your children! My kids now think I am paranoid for watching out for them like I do, at least counselors term it "vigilant". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I've dealt with the aftermath of abuse and it has been a long road, but at least the 3 of us are alive, and I can't say that if ex had stuck around that would be the case. I know that I was dead inside for a long time before he left, and my children should have never had the treatment they received at his hands.

{{{CJ}}} Many hugs and prayers to you!

Lori

(((((HUGS))))))

FW, Why was the restraining order discharged?

I know a company that is hiring sales staff to help people change their financial lives. Interested in relocating?

I'm rarely back at MB, but caught this one on a brief stopover.

Best wishes, CJ. It's tough to have both continued relationship pain and economic stress. I feel for you.

Hang in there and take care,

Steve

HI CJ, I dont know what these abbreviations mean: I'm BS 40yo--H is WS 40yo
H:Passive/Aggressive; emotionally, mentally, and verbally abusive
Multiple EA's (whats an EA?)and infidelities
Big PA (Whats a PA?) started 2-3-00

Oh and whats an SA?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stillwaiting:
[QB]Faithful, I'm sorry you are feeling this way.
Maybe it will take the D (Divorce?) to change some hearts.
God is not finished with your WS (whats WS mean?) or you yet, keep that in .

whtas it mean to be living with your OW or whatever it is

starlace,

You know...you bring up a good point here. I've been here on the MB (Marriage Builder) forum for about three years, so I know all the abbreviations and lingo! Not everyone else DOES! (DUH) So, to translate for you:

CJ is my name (haha). It is like a nickname that I got from some college buddies that is short for my longer name and is sort of my initials. I was also called Spike in college, as a joke, because I am about the most "un-spikey" person every created! I'm short, curvaceous, no angles anywhere, and soft and gentle and smooshy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BS stands for Betrayed Spouse. In other words, I was cheated on.

WS stands for Wandering Spouse or Wayward Spouse or something like that. In other words, the person who cheated.

yo means "years old"--so I am 40 years old and so is my H (husband). By the way (BTW), I am the W (wife) in this marriage.

An EA is an Emotional Affair. This would be when one spouse has feelings for another person, shares secrets and giggles and love notes with another person, and gets several of their ENs (Emotional Needs) met by the other person, but does not engage in sexual intercourse. This is might be an online affair, cybersex or email affair too, because TECHNICALLY they never really had sex, they just talked about it and wrote about it. Finally, this could be when a W has a very close male "friend" at work who she tells all her secrets to...who understands her and is there for her...but she's turning to him instead of turning to her own husband. Get it??

A PA is a Physical Affair. This would be what most people think of when they think of an affair...it starts off as a little flirting, turns into having feelings (an EA), then they start to get hot and bothered for each other, and then they consumate the affair in a physical way. Usually it is a physical affair when they have sexual intercourse, but for me, I also count heavy-duty making out, oral sex, manual sex, and any other kind of physical expression.

SA is Sexual Addiction. Now, this can get a little confusing and I think each person may define it a little different, but for me Sexual Addiction is having a bit of a skewed view of sex and what sex means. For example, looking at women in porno, masterbating more than once a day, considering women to be sex objects rather than seeing that they're equal human beings, acting out in sexual ways, cruising lots of porno websites, signing up for cybersex matchmaker sites, having sex with multiple partners while married, having sex with prostitutes, sometimes being a swinger or a nudist or an exhibitionist--all these things can be "signs" or indicators of sexual addiction. But in my specific situation, the biggest red flag that I saw was multiple affairs of a variety of kinds: emotional affairs, serious flirting, physical affairs, online/internet affairs, cybersex, signing up for sex sites and matchmaker sites, email affairs. I think in my marriage, it is almost more of an AFFAIR ADDICTION than sex addiction--constantly wanting to be chased by other women and pursued by the opposite sex...viewing it as an "emotional need" to be wanted by others and respond. Obviously, I disagree. I think once you take a vow of marriage, you should only be chased by and pursued by your spouse and that would be the only one you would respond to--you would take yourself out of situations where other people might pursue you.

Finally, OW means Other Woman, and OM means Other Man (OP means Other Person), so in my story, my H (husband) left me and the kids and didn't look back. He just dumped us. Technically his address was with his mom, but his OW was in another state and for most of the 5 months he was in that other state too. His mom used to call me and ask if I knew where he was! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So, starlace, does that answer some of your abbreviation questions? Hope it makes the mud a little clearer!!

CJ (remember?? Abbreviation for my name/initials--heehee rib rib)

Thank you all so much for your replies. I hope you’all know that I deeply value your ideas and thoughts and questions and just everything. So, with that in mind, I’d like to respond to everyone:

* * * * *

StillWaiting—you wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>… Maybe it will take the D to change some hearts. God is not finished with your WS or you yet, keep that in mind. You are looking at the storm around you … Our emotions can get so out of wack, and our actions working from emotions is not good. Take some time to rest in the Lord, and let Him show you what He wants of you. You know He will. … In the meantime, I and others here will pray for you, hang in there and don't let the devil get a foothold! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>

Thanks for your thoughts and prayers. You know, the other day I was thinking, "Boy! How can StillWaiting still be waiting? After all, it’s been four years!"…and then I realized I’ve been at this for THREE years! (Time flies when you’re having fun, doesn’t it?)

Anyway, you’re right about one thing: I have my eyes on the storm around me and not focused on God, and like Peter I’m sinking. This past week the storm has raged and raged, and I have to admit that there are times when it would be a relief to go ahead and sink! At least it would be over and there would be no more storm. But like you wrote, SW, my current lesson is not to let my emotions get the best of me—to be the master of my emotions and in control of them instead of them being in control of me. OY—as an INFP (that’s my Myers/Briggs personality type, and it stands for Introverted, Intuitive, Feeler, Perceiver) that is HARD because I filter almost everything through my feelings!!

I know that God is not finished with my WS or with me…not by a long shot!…but at this point I’m really beginning to wonder if maybe I’m standing in God’s way. I think it is conceivable that I may not be able to learn some of the lessons I need to learn as long as I’m in the firing line and hurt like this over and over. I seriously need some peace and comfort and gentleness; hence, it seems logical to me to rest in the Lord and let some ministering angels minister to me! But more importantly, I’m beginning to think that possibly my efforts and continued interaction with my WS may be the thing that is preventing God from really getting through to him! Maybe if I were to stand aside, God could reach him!

Sooo…pray for me to receive an answer to that question: Do I need to step aside? Thanks again, SW.

* * * * *

GnomeDePlume:
My good, old, best buddy and friend! I’m so glad you came on my thread and shared your dandruff issues…but could we stick to my marital problems for today?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (you are fun to play with!--dangle, dangle)

You were wondering why I think this is weird. Well, I think it is inconsistent to be treated the way that I’ve been treated and still care. I think it is incongruous to feel love when I’ve been treated with indifference or worse. I think it is illogical to feel sad about losing something that is hurting me very much. It’s weird.

Like you so concisely wrote, GDP, I do know that my H needs to have some pretty life-changing transformations before he would be a healthy partner for me, and here is where the question fits in. For some time now, I’ve been thinking that perhaps somehow that life-changing transformation might START or be initiated by something I do…like being an example or going to a certain seminar together or talking or something! Anyway, now I’m beginning to wonder if, in fact, I am interfering in that process—like, if ever there were going to be a chance for REAL change, maybe I need to step out of the picture altogether!

Oh, and BTW (as if you don’t know this already) I am a complete sucker for the warm fuzzies and fall for them every time. In this particular instance, I think I may need to harden my heart just a bit and turn down a few warm fuzzies. I will admit this though…as the poster child for INFP, warm fuzzies are just so WARM and FUZZY!! In real life, I WANT warmth and fuzziness. Sigh. This would be an excellent instance to discipline myself, huh? Sigh.

Finally and in conclusion, thanks for the "Sorry it’s been such a rollercoaster" hug. I notice it wasn’t one-sided or wooden, so I am very proud of you. Back atcha: {{{{{GnomeDePlume}}}}}

* * * * *

Lost Husband:
FOUND YOU!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Now you’re not lost anymore! When, oh WHEN will my insurance needs be taken care of (inside joke)?? How will I ever find an insurance agent where I’ll be in good hands??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Anyway, as you know, BB, you are one of my bestest buddies and I love ya like a brother. I think it’s neat that my two men are following each other on my thread AND saying/typing the same thing at the same time. Okay…it’s a LITTLE spooky, but only if you look at it in a supernatural way.

OR

It could be that God it trying to BONK me on the head with a message…do ya THINK??? haha

BB, I’ll share this with ya because it will mean something to you. I’m working on Step One right now: Admit to myself that I can not control the sexaholic and my life has become unmanageable. WELL…I have this little booklet thingy that has a bunch of questions in it about relationships I saw as a kid and how sex was dealt with in my FOO (Family of Origin)…and about my dates and boyfriends and how I related to guys…you know. A booklet thingy to get ya thinking about Step One. Well, lo and behold, last night as I was laying in bed (thanking God that tomorrow was a sleep-in day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ), it really hit me like a ton of bricks. My life REALLY HAS BECOME UNMANAGEABLE!! From day to day, I do not know if I’m going to be attacked and abused or cherished and charmed!! It’s out of control! The funny thing is, I thought I had admitted this to myself already. I thought I was facing it and acknowledging it, and you know what?? I WASN’T!! Not really. I said the words, but the real impact of it hit me last night…my life is out of control as it is right now.

Hmmm…

Well, that's the end of Part I!

CJ

LetsTry—I swear sometimes I feel like we are soul sisters! You wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I really feel for you because I've been through scenarios that feel similar with my STBXH. Last night I followed a link … to a website for narcissistic personality disorder. Wow. I saw my H and myself. It was disturbing. I don't know if you'd relate, but the verbal and emotional abuse, the numerous A's, the substance abuse, the lying, the inability to "be there" for you while expecting to be able to "depend on you a whole lot more," are all hallmarks of NPD, as I understand it. Check it out. I'd love to know what you think about it... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, I kind of hate to add yet another "disorder" to the group here, but I have to honestly tell you that I have thought that this particular disorder seemed 900% appropriate to me and my H. As I understand it, a person with NPD is someone who is basically so wrapped up in themselves that they are literally incapable of loving another—or really even knowing/understanding that another person exists! It is VERY disturbing to me mostly because I really DO relate so closely—as you said, the verbal and emotional abuse (which I think is primarily done as a way to stay "in control" and keep the focus on them), the numerous A’s of varying degree (which I think are primarily done to stroke the ego—that someone else is interested in them and pursuing them), the substance abuse and the lying (which I think are actually kind of similar—they are ways to numb or justify what they partially know they shouldn’t be doing but which they WANT to do and are going to do), the inability to "be there" for the partner while simultaneously expecting the partner to INTUIT "being there" for them all the time (which I think is just an outward indicator of the incapability to love another because they aren’t even aware of the other person)—all these traits are not only traits that I have seen but also traits that I see getting worse!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I'm beginning to recover from my own "fog" and to realize that my H isn't really capable of love. I'm realizing that I need to work hard on my own recovery to get over my attraction to the excitement and the danger of an emotionally unavailable man. I don't want to ever fall in love again with someone who is incapable of loving me back, who will only hurt me, betray me, use me, and eventually leave me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm…are you sure we are not traveling this road together? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Like you, I am beginning to wake up and SEE what I have been trying to hard to avoid…that I need to work hard on my own recovery and in a nutshell get over the addiction I have to my H! That sounds odd, I know, but when I KNOW that he is going to hurt me, betray me, use me and discard me, what do I do?? I turn to HIM!! That’s just silly! I have reminders around that I need to "Be my own foundation" and that "I WAS an addict and now I’m in RECOVERY." Boy, I am just like you…I do not even WANT to be with someone who can not love me back and "be there" for me!

Finally, you wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I know I'm still vulnerable and that's why I maintain complete NC. …
Anyway, we'll get through this. I'm still sad, too, mostly for the loss of my illusions... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy, this may sound odd, but I am still struggling with that one. I would have thought that after three years, I’d be able to let go of the fantasy illusions of a happy marriage and a happy family and get on with REALITY. Well, the truth of the matter is…I haven’t. I don’t want to be divorced!! I don’t want to be a single mom—well, I don’t mind, I just mean, I WANT to be sharing my life with someone, not doing it all alone! I’m BUILT to be a little lover, and I am happiest when I’m safe and secure and giving and receiving love.

Yep…letting go of that illusion is a toughy.

* * * * *

brokenX3:
Thanks for your "quick note." Maybe I was tired too, because what you wrote made complete sense to me. As a BS of multiple A’s and all that, I have often felt like I was kept in the picture, not because I was loved or valued, but because of what I could offer my WS. As long as I was around, the kids were cared for, the house was more or less cleaned, there was free sex if he felt like it, a body to sit by and watch TV, a football companion, but no one that deserved or needed serious time or effort…kind of like, the last option if there was NO ONE ELSE or NOTHING ELSE to do. The person who was dependably "there" no matter what. And that door was kept open by the periodic "warm fuzzies" that GDP mentioned above…just enough warm fuzzies to keep me on the string but not enough to actually make a serious attempt at intimacy.

It is interesting that you should bring up the idea that the goal is to exert power over you…not love, but power. This is SOOOOOooooo true!! It’s about power, strength, control, authority, command, domination and force; whereas the terms of a truly loving relationship would be mutuality, interdependence, sharing and caring. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard, "You just want to be in control and I won’t let you" or "You are trying to be in control"—especially after I have asked for something I want and spoken up about something that is not okay with me. Gee…in my mind, I’m not trying to "one-up" or "win!

* * * * *

Bangarra! My sister! My, we really HAVE been at this a long time, haven’t we? I remember you as one of the original "oldies" when I came on the board back in the stone age—right before they invented the wheel, right??? Shall we sit on the porch at the old-folks-home together and have tea while we talk about this?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

You wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> <strong> …It was a relief to the girls and I to find out he was mental and that there was nothing we ever did, or would do to make it better. It is a disorder that they are born with, that progressively gets worse as they age (so yes, when we met them, there were probably indications, but nothing to what they ended up like 10 years later), and there really is no "cure" for it. Counseling can sometimes help, but usually the NPD person feels they are more knowledgeable than the doctor. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This made me laugh. Let’s just say that I identify with the NPD person thinking they are more knowledgeable than the counselor! Heehee. However, on a more serious note, I can also honestly say that it has been a relief to my mind to find out that it was NOT all me and that there was not anything I could have done to "make it better." For years, I really did think it was me—like, if I were prettier or slimmer or kept a better house or the kids were quieter or I yelled less…then he wouldn’t have his affairs. Well … now I think that those things may have been the areas of my life that I did need to work on, but even if I was the most beautiful corporate wife with a perfect home and silent children, I don’t think that would have stopped the affairs. In other words, I’m not blameless but I’m also not the cause of the disorder nor am I in any way "the cure" either!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> It is all about power and control and me, me, me. They do just the right amount of stuff to keep up appearances, can be extremely charming, but upon first impression, most feel the extreme arrogance. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DING-DING-DING…see what I wrote above to brokenX3. I have OFTEN felt as if just enough was done to either a) get what he wants when he wants something from me or b) just enough to string me along. It is literally SCARY to me that he has demonstrated that he is willing to lie, cheat or steal—even from me and the kids!--if it is "necessary" to make him or his life better. Without one thought or one hesitation, he will lay me to waste and hurt me to the core if it will make him "feel good" or save him embarrassment or avoid him being hurt. I feel like an expendable shield that he is willing to sacrifice in order to save himself.

* * * * *

My lovely Miss Kayla--The restraining order was not discharged, it was vacated. When the hearing came up to make the temporary order permanent, I just didn’t give testimony on why it should be made permanent…I told the judge it was okay to let it be vacated. Of course, at the time I thought it was reasonable and safe to let it expire.

Regarding the company that is hiring sales staff, are they LOOKING for short, 40yo sales chicks with an administrative assistant background? Heehee. Any chance they would chip in relocation costs?

* * * * *

StillHers:
I know you’re not often on MB, so the fact that you’d take a second and stop by is an honor. Thanks

CJ

{{{CJ}}}

This is it exactly! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

[b]I have often felt like I was kept in the picture, not because I was loved or valued, but because of what I could offer my WS. As long as I was around, the kids were cared for, the house was more or less cleaned, there was free sex if he felt like it, a body to sit by and watch TV, a football companion, but no one that deserved or needed serious time or effort…kind of like, the last option if there was NO ONE ELSE or NOTHING ELSE to do.[b]

So I also am at a loss as to why these type of men can get us to stick by them? I, too, felt that "I" was the big problem for so long. I still shudder when I think of what he made me believe. Used to tell me no one liked me and that the only reason anyone spoke to me was because I was married to him. I think I still get shocked when people actually think I said something funny or intelligent.

I've travelled all over, done some pretty incredible things, graduated college with honors and I have trouble thinking that I have anything to give back, even in conversation. Maybe that is one reason why I don't do a lot of replying to posts?

You're right in that we do have to really look at what our own ideals and feelings are, look at the past and learn from those mistakes. I think being on this forum has helped me out tremendously, the years of counseling and domestic violence support groups added to it, but it does come down, finally, to looking deep into ourselves.

Yes, it'd be fun to sit on the porch and sip some tea and talk, but to tell you the truth, I'd much rather talk about the brighter future than the dark past. Although, if it did slip into the past, at least we'd both understand totally what the other has gone through. You know what else? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> 40 isn't old enough to plunk down on a porch, anyway!!! There's still too much to do that you can't sit still long enough. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Lori

cj,

Hey "soul sister," I'm also an INFP, BTW.

I know what you mean about hating to add another disorder... I spent a lot of time over the years trying to diagnose my H, which he understandably resented, and I can still hear his angry voice in my head telling me what a miserable person I am/was for always trying to make him "the identified patient"... I've realized lately that I can get much farther focusing on my own issues.

But, on the NPD website, there's lots of info about the effects of being in a relationship with an NPD and the issues of people in relationships with NPDs that I found really eye opening. It helps me to realize that hanging on to an abusive relationship is not the same thing, at least for me, as "standing for your marriage." It has to do with my issues around trauma and betrayal.

My counselor made an interesting differentiation between grieving and mourning (tho' I doubt this is in the dictionary). She said we grieve what we've lost, but we mourn what we never really had. I'm definitely in mourning that the love of my life turned out not to be.

Take care, L

((((((My dear CJ))))))

Having been in my own struggles, I wasn't up to reading your news. I am not only saddened by the encroaching reality you find but also relieved that you finally see (hopefully) that nothing you alone do can restore this marriage. That the restoration would, indeed, requie a miracle and that your h is not allowing room for such miracles.

In all honestly, I maintained a small remnant of hope for my marriage until he married w#2. At that point, I gave up all hope.

I will say that I found peace in giving up the struggle and in getting on with my life. That didn't mean that I moved toward the d. It meant that I just gave up struggling on the marriage and spent that emotional and physical energy on the rest of my life.

CJ, you are an intelligent, wonderful woman. And you can make it through these challenges.

During how many of the last 15 years has M been there for you? If the only big change is that he quits attacking you, are you going to be better off or worse off in plan B? Or plan D?

Your like my sister and my heart breaks for you. But, having been where you are, I know that you can do this. You are capable. You don't need or deserve the marriage you've had.

Rest in God's love. Rest in CJ's love.

((((((CJ))))))

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>You were wondering why I think this is weird. Well, I think it is inconsistent to be treated the way that I’ve been treated and still care. I think it is incongruous to feel love when I’ve been treated with indifference or worse. I think it is illogical to feel sad about losing something that is hurting me very much.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't believe you feel sad about losing something that's hurting you, CJ. I think you feel sad about losing something you value that just so happens to be inextricably attached to the thing that is hurting you.

As for that mysterious "feeling" called love, let me ask you: if your kids started treating you terribly, do you think you would still love them? I am betting that the answer is "yes".

I have never understood why it is considered natural for the love of a parent for a child to survive virtually anything, while it is considered unnatural for any other kind of love to survive. What, are children supposed to emit some kind of pheromone that programs a parent into caring about them?

I can accept the idea that there may be some sort of biochemical source to the maternal instinct, but I do not buy the idea that such an instinct can sustain a love for life. Rather, I imagine that it works much more like that lovely biochemical cocktail which fuels the initial stages of romance. At some point, the chemicals wear off, and something else takes over.

I don't know what that "something else" is. Part of it is choice, I think. Perhaps another part of it comes from the connections one has made with that other person over time, so that a piece of one's heart gets irrevocably (albeit metaphorically) transferred over. No doubt yet another part of it involves the meeting of Emotional Needs as the Harleys describe, but I have never believed that the "Love Bank" concept is anything more than a useful model. It doesn't tell us what "love" is.

God tells me that I am supposed to love my wife (Ephesians 5:25). I don't believe he would tell me to do something impossible.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I do know that my H needs to have some pretty life-changing transformations before he would be a healthy partner for me, and here is where the question fits in. For some time now, I’ve been thinking that perhaps somehow that life-changing transformation might START or be initiated by something I do…like being an example or going to a certain seminar together or talking or something! Anyway, now I’m beginning to wonder if, in fact, I am interfering in that process—like, if ever there were going to be a chance for REAL change, maybe I need to step out of the picture altogether!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've been down that whole road myself, and I came to pretty much that same conclusion. Sometimes loving someone means you have to hold them close. Sometimes it means you have to let them go. And sometimes it means you have to kick them out.