I've never posted on this board (GQII sometimes), but I read the boards faithfully every day. A synopsis of my story -- D-Day was 7/4/02, while on "family vacation w/ our 3yo at the beach"...ugh, still brings back nightmares. He's never admitted to a PA, only claimed they were "friends", but that's a lie. We basically were separated living in the same house until 11/15, since then he has been living in an apartment (conveniently in the same town as OW). He and OW are co-workers, but all three of us work for the same large company, though I work in the corporate office.

Long story short, I believe he's an alcoholic (his dad is an alcoholic), though he will not admit to the problem. His sister passed away 2yrs ago from pancreatic cancer and since then he's been drinking more than ever before. Also, since the affair was discovered, he started drinking 7 days/wk and it's continued up to current. Though, at least he's not living here so I don't have to deal w/ the craziness for the most part. I recently told him we needed to schedule time for him to spend w/ our daughter -- I've been doing everything and never get a break. So, now we have a set schedule. He's w/ her Monday & Wednesday evenings here at the house and will have her one weekend day/nite each week.

I've been attending Al-Anon and it's been WONDERFUL. What a great organization, it's a lifesaver. I've learned to detach from him and I basically don't have any emotions when dealing with him. I still love him and wrote him an email on New Year's basically saying that I believed we were meant to be together and we could repair our marriage w/ alot of hard work, but also told him I could move on w/out him as my husband. During a conversation 2wks ago regarding visitation, etc, he said that he feels comfortable not living here, that he feels our marriage is over and he didn't want to play games w/ me, and referenced the email I wrote on New Year's. So, I said "my feelings have changed also". To that he replied "I can't imagine how they wouldn't". (Guess he was admitting in his own way the affair???). I was upset, got teary a bit, but never mentioned the bimbo once during the conversation. Then he said "I'll always be your friend S", and then hugged me. Seriously, I wanted to smack him but I just sat there.

Since then he's been supportive of my time off, has been extremely pleasant and makes an effort to always kiss me goodbye when leaving here. What is that about?????

Tonite was the kicker...got home at 8:30 and there was a newspaper clipping on the kitchen counter. " Free Seminar -- Everything You Need to Know About Divorce". I just looked at it, kind of laughed and said "are you planning on going?". He said "I hoped we could go together". WTF????? There's one next tuesday and he said, maybe then? I said OK, whatever and then moved on to other conversation. Once again, no emotion on my part.

Then when he was leaving he made a point to say "goodnite babe", gave me a kiss on the lips and hugged me tightly. WHAT IS GOING ON??? Is the alcohol seriously affecting his brain? I honestly don't know what to think. If he seriously wanted a divorce, why would he be hugging and kissing me? Now, we have not been intimate in months...not going there. But the kisses goodbye make no sense.

I know the senior MB's always say look at the actions, not the words. In this case, his actions certainly don't match the words, but I don't know what to think.

Any ideas on what I should do next? I feel like I'm living in the twilight zone...

I think in your heart you know the answer.

Your husband is trying anything to get you to go to the seminar. Even he knows that if he yells you won't be inclined to go. My first husband did the same thing to get me to sign a financial agreement. I realized what he was doing as he was doing it.

It's not fair. It isn't fun. But that is what he is trying to do, I believe.

Good luck in your decisions.
JLB

If he gets you on the band wagon talking about divorce, then he does not look totally like the bad guy.

Do not initiate ANY conversation about divorce. If you want one, get one, otherwise leave it alone.

Chris & JLB - thanks for the replies. I haven't brought up the topic again since he gave me the newspaper clipping. Today he picked up our daughter from school and spent some time w/ her before I came home from work.

I didn't buy him a V-day card, but our daughter made him one and we bought him some special treats. He bought me a candle & holder (from daughter) -- certainly didn't expect anything at all. He didn't stay too long after I got home - was out of here by 6:30pm. I just said Happy Valentine's Day and he kissed me goodbye. He's coming tomorrow to take daughter to a family birthday party - I'm going to spend time w/ my parents.

I still haven't decided if I'll go to the seminar if he brings it up again. We'll see...still taking it a day at a time.

I'm sure he was going to spend V-Day w/ OW, but I just acted friendly while he was here. Good Plan A, right?

Hi Rosedust---you definitely can say there is a lot of confusing things going on. The whole infidelity game is mass confusion, consequently that is why I chose my name, tossedwave. A are the most confusing thing I have ever seen but mix alcohol with that and you have a potent, toxic "cocktail" of destruction.

My WS does many things like your H. My WS is an alcoholic also. Alcoholics are programmed to self-serve (or to serve self). They will manipulate a situation to get what they think they want (never what they need). My WS still, to this day, admits he is making the biggest mistake of his life letting me go but is unwilling to change. He is paranoid about change. So that leaves me to my point---we spent hours talking about his love A, our M, our future, what needed to be done etc. We said the same things over and over at times. Neither of us, for months, made any decision so we always came back to the same place of indecision. But the funny thing I remember about that is that everytime we talked, my WS would say thanks for talking to me and "I feel so much better after our talk" and would then be charged up and unencumbered to go back to the same old thing. He got relief from venting or dumping on me. He would kiss me too and tell me he loved me after these intense talks but nothing ever changed til I moved out.

Your H may be able to kiss you and hug you cause he is feeling temporarily relieved. You accepting and "working" with him to help him with his "new" life may be his motivation for the hugging and kissing. Honestly, he probably does love you but the fog he is in (mixed with an alcohol-driven life)is cause for major inner conflict and confusion.

You need to make a decision for yourself if divorce is what you need to do. You need to learn about the consequences and the workings of divorce. You need to be educated but I do not think a "family" outing to learn about divorce together is healthy for you.

If he is choosing to divorce you, let him find his answers. You find yours.

The emotions of an adulterer are unstable....the emotions of an alcoholic are choatic. They do not know themselves at all and don't seem to know what is good for them. He probably needs your approval in some sick way. Validating what he is doing could be what he is seeking to accomplish. He may not even realize this.

Hope something I said helped,
TW

TossedWave,
Thank you so much for your kind words and wisdom. Everything you have said rings true -- it is so sad that these men have chosen alcohol and the affairs over everything else in their lives.

Today, I came to a major life decision. I am going to file for divorce. In NJ, there is no such thing as a legal separation, even though we currently are separated. Something in me just died today - I looked at him and said to myself this man is never going to change and I refuse to live the rest of my life with an alcoholic. He was raised in a very dysfunctional home and it's as though he is "destined to become his father". It's such a shame to see him spiral downward.

But, I am not to blame for his problems, though, of course, "everything is my fault". The typical "woe is me" attitude of the alcoholic. I've been attending Al-Anon meetings and that has helped me more than I can express. I finally feel worthy enough and strong enough to move on without him as my husband. Strangely, today I am feeling a sense of peace that I have not felt in over a year.

BTW, I will not be attending this seminar w/ WH. I will be contacting my own attorney this week to move forward with the divorce papers.

Thank you again for sharing your story with me - it helps to know others are out there struggling with the same issues and are moving on with their lives, happier and healthier.

Peace to you, RD

<small>[ February 15, 2003, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: Rosedust ]</small>

Rosedust---what made you come to that life decision? How long have you been going to Alanon?

I had such hope when I found MB but resisted the ideas that Dr Harley had about not being able to rebuild after an A with an alcoholic. I always had the philosphy that stick it out no matter what and work on things til you die. God knew this and I think the A was my open door and the beginning of my new journey. Don't get me wrong---I would jump at the chance to work on things if I saw a real effort or desire on the part of my WS....At this point I would need to see clear, hard evidence and because I left, I now can honestly say I see things clearer. My WS has always told me that he was who he was and HE WOULD NEVER CHANGE. Well I finally believe it.

Do you have someone to bounce things off of, to sort through things with, a sponsor or conselor?

Keep learning and growing....

TW

BTW---it is hard out here. The longing for family and any good you had with spouse becomes sharper after you get away from the negatives.
It is a process to leave behind a life you knew but I AM healthier than I have ever been. I do not live in constant rejection, suspicion, and indifference.

TW

TW,
I've been attending Al-anon for just over six months, but finally found a wonderful meeting with people I could relate to. It was a long and "interesting" journey to find where I felt most comfortable.

I am such a strong believer in marriage and would go to the ends of the earth with him to repair this marriage, but I can't do it alone. I've been struggling with the decision to file divorce for some time now, but yesterday I found my answer. We had a confrontation at the house (nothing serious), but at that moment I realized that he is not the man I married or the man I loved heart and soul.

He is allowing alcohol to take over his life...and I will NOT live with an alcoholic. I'll never forget what his mom said to me when I called her hysterical crying the morning after D-Day from my cell phone on the beach (we were on vacation). She said "K is my son and I will always love him, but do not do what I did for all those years...you are a young, vibrant, beautiful, wonderful mother and have your whole life in front of you...do not waste the best years". We were discussing the fact that she divorced his dad, but never moved on. In fact they were "boyfriend/girlfriend" all these years and she did not move on until her eldest daughter became gravely ill w/ cancer and subsequently died (2yrs ago). It was a very dysfunctional relationship and she never felt strong enough to cut ties until the tragic happened.

I think she feels very guilty because her son is following in his dad's footsteps and she's powerless to stop him. And, I know I can't change him -- you're so right about not being able to even apply the MB principles w/ an alcoholic. It just doesn't work...

So, my life decision didn't come all at once - it has been building for quite some time. I think yesterday I just found my "answer". And, strangely, I feel a sense of peace. I'm taking things one day at a time - I know it will be hard, but aren't all things worthwhile? I can move on from this marriage w/ dignity, knowing that I did everything to try to save it (and him).

Thanks again for responding...it's good to hear that you are doing OK.

BTW, are you getting bombarded with any snow?? I'm in NJ and wow...we're looking at 20+ inches between tonite & tomorrow!

Take care,
RD

Rosedust---I can see you have really been trying and have thought this through. Interesting what your H's Mom said. I can understand what she did though cause we want to stay with the comfortable. It is so hard to "cut" a person you love out of your life even if they hurt you repeatedly.

I am truly seeing life so differently now and I have only been on my own for 3 months. Life is so easy now in many ways and free of so much emotional burdens but I have been working on myself for years so I don't know if I would be where I am if I had not been in recovery for awhile. I am also an Alanon participant. If you do divorce, make sure you learn what caused you to be attracted to your S in the first place. Learn your needs (HN/HN really helped me with that). Don't get involved with anyone just to have someone. You will just continue your pain on a different "stage".

We are in the middle of the blizzard of 2003. We have anywhere from 1-2 feet of snow. The storm is stuck right over the east coast and it is still coming down.

Keep warm and safe. Be careful digging out tomorrow.

TW