My WW and I are going through court ordered psychological custody evaluations right now. We have been through the standard psychological, intelligence, and that Minnesota T-F inventory tests. The kids have each had 3 hour individual sessions with the psychologist doing the same things geared toward their ages.

The next steps are family or group meetings with the psychologist. Our children and their mother will see the psychologist first for about an hour and then the kids and I will see the psychologist as a family group without their mother. I really don't know what to expect during this meeting with one parent and the children. Anyone out there have any experience with this that could share some thoughts with me? Is it group activities/games or answering questions as a group? The psychologist told me these meetings probably won't even last an hour. I'm told this is the last meeting for any of us before the psychologist files his report with the court. (can you tell I am anxious?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

HoFS

We are just finishing up with this. He saw the children at least 3 times. My children were too young to go in alone, and didn't talk when he tried to speak to them alone.
He was looking for bonding between the parent and the children. If you were an involved parent this would be evident. In my state, NJ, they are leaning toward shared parenting (50/50) where it works, ie. if you will live close, in the same school district, etc. In my case, H won't disclose where he plans to live, so the recommendation will be written so that it will be reevaluated 3 months after we are both settled. He was concerned about H's basic child & home care abilities. Ie. shopping, groceries, cooking, laundry, etc.
Our evaluator was very adamant that the children know the schedule, ie. consistent days of the week. They are also looking for cooperation between the parents. Their client is the children, and the recommendation reflects this. I proposed the following schedule, which he said he really likes. H is in capital letters
mTwHfss
mTwhFSs, this gives H 5 of 14 nightes or 37% custody. I don't think he'll be able to handle that much.
If you have specific questions, please e-mail me at mcelros@yahoo.com

Newly:

Thanks for the feedback. I guess the ages of the kids can make a big difference in the evaluation procedure. I am getting very nervous about the whole thing. I really want to explain to the psychologist why my attorney and I asked for this evaluation but on the other hand, I really don't think the psychologist wants to know. He just wants to make an objective decision based on all of the testing.

Our last session is next week and I'm really not sure what to expect. I could see the psychologist asking my kids to tell me why they don't want to live with their father. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I don't want to face that. I also don't want to hear someone tell me that the kids would be better off with my WW. After the things she has done over the last two years, I just don't know how she can be trusted to run a household and take care of the kids.

Best to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

HoFS

Shared custody is the newest rage in divorces, some men are not good canidates, i'll grant you that, but the ones that are should be given full opportunity to have it,it requires lots of commitment and cooperation on both ends, many times ONE of the parents cant see past their "issues" with the spouse, and that alone cannot, and SHOULD NOT be the deciding factor,I guess that why the OVER USED AND OVER PAID "EVALUATIONS" start,IF MEN choose to be put through this they should have their own INDEPENDENT evaluation done, and the WOMAN should be made to attend a session also,ALONE, to allow the evaluator to see the big picture. I DONT TRUST court appointed evaluations ALONE, thats why you need your own, and YOUR guy should be given a copy of it so he can see IF the court ordered evaluator even did one. I question a system like NJ uses where the court has a relationship with "evaluators", THE COURTS should NOT be involved in picking ANYTHING in a case like this, There have be rumors of judges getting under the table" bird dogs" from court ordered "evaluations". INSIST on picking professionals your self, and make sure they are NOT on a "PREFERRED" court list.

41-

Thanks for the advice. Actually, my lawyer picked the psychologist we are using to make the evaluation for the court. I figure that is a positive step in my direction. I assume this is not how things are usually done? The court simply approved our request to use this psychologist. My W and her lawyer didn't have any problem with that.

I wish I could tell you that I know what is in the best interest of my kids. I do know that I am as involved in their lives as their mother. The biggest difference these days is that I leave for work before the youngest gets on the bus and they arrive home before I do. I guess they would also tend to favor jumping in bed with their mother if they are sick. Otherwise, I'm there. I can't imagine not reading to them at bedtime, a routine we've shared for at least 11 years. I can't begin to tell you the commitment I made to my kids starting even before they were born with my career choice.

Oh, and my last visit with the kids was postponed because of illness. We'll try again to finish up in a few days. I can't believe how much I want to be finished with these evaluations. Living under the same roof with a spouse that wants nothing to do with you is very, very difficult.

HoFS

Well, HoFS,

As you know, I've been on the MB forum here a long time, and it has been my general observation that the judges/magistrates start with 50/50 custody as the "ideal" and then try to look for reasons why that wouldn't be in the best interests of the kids.

For example, they will probably accept any reasonable plan that has you and your WW have the kids an equal amount of time MWFSu with you...THSa with her and them verse visa (haha) the next week--or SOMETHING! Your kids are fairly young so they might do a week at mom's and a week at dad's. BUT...then all these test and evaluations are done to see if there is some hidden reason why one parent or the other shouldn't have their "equal" time. Maybe one parent is actually abusive "in private" and the kids all act afraid of that parent in the eval. Maybe one parent is so neglectful that the kids act detached and defiant. Maybe one parent does not have a relationship with their child, and the kid acts like they don't know the parent. So the evaluator would then say, "Ideally, this parent needs a Parenting Skills course" or whatever.

The goal is GENERALLY to have each parent have the children an equal amount of time unless there is proof or some concrete reason why it would NOT be in the kids' best interest to spend much time with one or the other parent. In my instance, for example, my kids are teenagers and are capable of expressing what they want regarding visitation. They have not had a very close relationship with their dad, because he has been at work or yelling and it scares them...so they spend about 70/30 (or maybe 80/20)...but that's how it has always been! The kids and I are like the 3 Musketeers and we always have been!

So take a deep breath. You have been a GOOD father who has a pretty good relationship with his kids--as their FATHER not their BUDDY. I can think of no reason that you wouldn't get your 50% of the time if you want it. On the other hand, it is conceivable that you may get more time (60/40 or 70/30) due to her continued involvement in illegal activities! I mean, that does reflect poorly on her position as a mother! Hours spent away from the kids...away from the family...that could count against her too. Whatever the outcome, I do guarantee you one thing though. You won't have your kids "full time" anymore. There WILL be nights that you will be going to sleep in an empty house, because they'll be with their mother. Maybe you can work it like I do: Son on Saturdays, Daughter on Sundays and he drives her to school. That way, I'm never "alone"--I'm just less interesting than PC games and PlayStation and friends. haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

CJ

CJ- So this is where you've been hiding!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>Well, HoFS,

As you know, I've been on the MB forum here a long time...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that just plain sucks. Sorry, I know it is reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I'm just less interesting than PC games and PlayStation and friends. haha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

CJ</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, I know the feeling. They like me to play with them though as long as I bring my own controller and if I am prepared to lose badly!

If it weren't for my WW lying to me about things and trying to blame the kids for 'little' things that were really her fault and then the illegal stuff, I would be able to accept the 50/50 custody thing much better. Like the other day, I tried to call home before coming home because I wanted to talk about dinner reservations for the evening. I was taking the kids and wife out for Valentines dinner but I knew the restaurant would be crowded. I tried to call home on and off for about 90 minutes before finally getting through. My W's explanation? She said the kids were tying up the phone line with internet searches. Too bad that I had proof that this wasn't the case and that the kids told me this wasn't true. It just burns me.

One the other hand CJ, I have to be honest and say that getting 100% custody and having 100% responsibility for the kids could be scary. At this point though, this is what I have to fight for and hope for the best.

I just wish I had a better idea of what to expect when meeting with the psychologist next.

Thanks for the encouragement CJ.

HoFS

Oh LORD! Let me tell you. 100% responsibility is hard. HARD HARD HARD. I know I wrote that my kids have maybe 70/30 or 80/20, but if you notice they stagger it between them, so I never really have a break.

The thing that bugs me the most is that, as the sole caretaker basically, I have to deal with all the silly day-to-day stuff. It's good in a way, but MAN! Laundry, waking them up, getting them dressed and fed and packed for school, getting them TO school, making sure they have breakfast and lunch and dinner, making sure they have all homework and permission slips and fees and field trip money and...and...and! THEN, I get to go to work and work all day (aren't I lucky?), and come home and fight the homework/dinner battle, and the dishes battle, and the garbage battle, and pay bills and enforce punishments and drive them to see their friends and tell them "only 3 hours on the phone tonight"....

It is HARD HARD HARD.

Their dad lives by himself--only has to feed and care for himself--only has to keep his one schedule straight--and he takes one kid for one night, and another kid for one night about once a month. Sometimes he will have them stay overnight, and sometimes it's just bowling or going to a movie.

I get so tire sometimes. It would be "Oprah Princess for a Day" heaven to have a DAY OFF, and let someone else deal with the phone call from the bus pass lady and the tardy slip that I need to sign and the "MOM! What do you know about Walt Disney?" (head, thudding on desk)

(Eyes glazing over in a dreamy stare)

One day. One day to have a massage and a facial...to go to Glenwood and sit in the hot springs until I'm a prune...to have a massage so soft, I fall asleep...to have a lavendar eye pillow on my eyes! AHHHH Calgon take me away!

CJ

Have been through almost the exact same situation and circumstances. Same fears, etc as a Father of 4.

The custody evaluators recommendation was that Dad have full custody of the children.

There were some real key things that helped with our evaluation and the outcome I was able to get. I would be happy to share. I would prefer private email or phone. You can get hold of me at 515-669-8891 (cell) or list your email.

John

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JohnC:
<strong>
There were some real key things that helped with our evaluation and the outcome I was able to get. I would be happy to share. I would prefer private email or phone.

John</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JohnC-
Thanks for any advice you might be able to share.

.
.

HoFS

<small>[ February 19, 2003, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

post-evaluation update:

I thought I share what happened during our last session with the psychologist doing the custody evaluation. This session was different because it wasn't an individual session with the psychologist. Each parent would be accompanied by the children. My W and kids had the first appointment and then I followed with the kids. We essentially did the same thing. We entered a 12x15 room with a couple of chairs, a table and a whiteboard. The psychologist told us he wanted to observe us interacting for 30 minutes. We had at our disposal an Uno card game, checkers board, and markers for the white board. My oldest child mostly sat in a chair and refused to participate unless he could read the notes the psychologist was taking. It all felt very awkward and unnatural. The psychologist sat in the room with us but he told us to pretend that he wasn't there. My oldest ended up participating more than he thought he would in the evaluation because he would get up out of his chair occassionally to mumble something in my ear about wanting to leave. Anyway, the youngest kids and I figured out things to do/play during our time and once we stopped watching the clock, the time seemed to pass fairly quickly. The psychologist told us when the time was up and thanked us for participating and told us to have a good day. That was it. Now to wait on his report.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Good luck to whoever has to go through this sort of thing.

HoFS

I'm still waiting on my report, so say some prayers for me too. The psych is waiting to hear from the daycare and doctor before he finishes his report. However, as we are waiting, I informed the psych that STBX drove the girls to me in 6 inches of snow (one of the psych's concerns), and failed to make provisions for the dog during the huge east coast snowstorm. He's actually sabotaged himself. Odd.
I wish you luck, and you are right to consider that 100% is very difficult. I honestly believe that I was a single parent during the marriage, and yet at 50% now, I still dont' have enough time.
If you are in the Jersey area, our Divorce support group is having a party this weekend, I can send an invite.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by newly:
<strong>.....If you are in the Jersey area, our Divorce support group is having a party this weekend, I can send an invite.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">newly-

Thanks for your feedback and the invitation. I won't be able to make the party being about 1/3 of the country away from you. Good luck {{{newly}}}

HoFS

Awkward to have them sit in the same room with you instead of behind a mirror like in my case. Hope I was of some help to you.

Best of luck

Regards

John

I am getting divorced as well and we have agreed on joint legal custody with me having primary physical custody.
Is this equal physical custody really good for the children? Don't the kids get confused? Anybody out there that has small children doing this, I would be interested in your response.

Hi Ruby, I wanted to respond to your post on Robert C's thread too. We're finishing up the psychological evaluations for custody (as STBX refuses anything except 50/50). Psych believes 50/50 is disruptive, but if the parent's live close to each other (in the same school district) and do cooperate with each other, it is a good thing. In our case, STBX will get much less due to his lack of parenting & basic home care skills (no lie here).

Your post on the other thread describes my H's family too. My STBX is a conflict avoider, something he learned from his FOO(family of origin). He couldn't stand up to his parents either. I've learned alot of this is from his ACOA issues (adult children of alcoholics) and the enabling attitudes of his parents (who are basically caring for my children on H's time now).

The Codependency books out there helped me alot to understand this dynamic, and also see how I enabled his lack of parenting in our household. I have alot of work to do on me to get past these issues, for my benefit and for the benefit of the children. I believe these may be helpful to you too. Whether the issue is alcohol, physical or emotional abuse, or gambling, the results are very much the same - they create a dysfunctional household which continues until someone stops it. I have made the choice to make a better life for me and my children, and to try to teach them communication skills.

My realization of the day: I've been seperated for fourteen months now, and it just hit me that I don't miss the interaction with H's family. We saw them so frequently before, but I'm shocked that I don't miss them. I think it means that they added so little to my life, that it wasn't missed. And my life has benefitted immensely from the many friends I've made over the past year, who have added so much to my life.