Renae, what you are doing for husband is admirable but the example you are setting for your children I am unsure about.<P>You might consider reading some of Jeff Van Vondren's stuff - "Families Where Grace Is In Place" "Tired of Trying to Measure Up", and he has one on spiritual abuse.<P>Start now making your plans. You'll need to know where you're headed in terms of residence, utilities, etc.

Yes, I have read those. Thanks, Bleubelle!

Tonight my H and I will go back to therapy.<BR>It is ALL in God's hands now. <P>I would like to bring up how he acted last night to me and with the kids. I confronted him last night on part of it, but he looked me straight in the face and denied it. <BR>

Therapy last night was TOUGH!! TOUGH!! TOUGH!!<BR>H finally showed his real colors in front of them.<BR>I'm wondering what they are thinking, especially how he<BR>blew up at them! She asked me to call her today.<P>I am still intact, I think, after being in the war zone,<BR>but it was HARD!! I have a special hair appointment scheduled for this afternoon--I will need that to relax and be pampered after what I've been through!! If I ever needed a hairdresser it is now!!

How is your hair, Renae?

Can you update us on a monthly basis?<P>Are you Safe?<P>Are you Healthy?<P>Are your children safe and healthy?<P>

Hi! <BR>We're safe, physically speaking. <P>Tonight H & I go back to therapy. I need them to take him alone SOON (like NOW!!) as the Therapists had promised me before, and get H on a personal recovery journey. <P>I am really irked by this "couple" counseling stuff! Like, they seem to bounce stuff off of me that should go direct to H. I feel that only feeds H's mindset that I'm the whole problem. If indirect messages are given to keep him coming, well, I doubt he applies these to himself.<P>Also, she seems to "understand" when I've talked to her alone, but in her e-mails or in the couple therapy, I get the strong sense that the Therapists view us as a normal married pair who just need to affirm each other!!!! GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!! <P>As J.K.Miller says in his book Compelled to Control, couples counseling doesn't work with Controllers! I asked her if she's read Miller, and she says yes, assuring me she knows what she's doing. <P>You can't build marital relationship (urge us to hug, communicate authentically & intimately, etc, as the Therapists have been doing) until this man is reparented into a mature adult and stops his abusive, dysfunctional, controller behaviors!!! <P>We can't hug, etc....that's just forcing us to accommodate each other & patch up things on the surface! Fact is, right now, he doesn't even want to love me up because he hates the non-controllable Renae I am now, and how can I love up a man who abuses me!!! UGH!!!!<P>Miller says on his tape that many therapists are NOT trained in resolving inner shame issues. I feel therapists don't know how to counsel abusers & their no-longer-codependent victim spouses!!!<p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 18, 2001).]

Renae, I am thankful for your physical safety. But I am still concerned for you and your children. You are never far from my thoughts and prayers. <P>

Thank you, bleubelle! I feel a warm hug in your words.<P>Last night was tough. H told the counselors--"she says I don't love her but I do!" Then he sits there that whole hour and cuts me down one swing after another, mercilessly! <BR>H told the counselors--Renae is manipulating you...she's nice in therapy but at home she's this terrible-tempered, out-of-control person! He said I re-write the story of our lives in distorted ways. <P>He rattled on and on about how we used to be intimate in conversation, but in the last three years, he's been trying everything but I'm the bad person who builds walls out of nowhere to keep him from being intimate. <BR> <BR>He proudly proclaimed how he is so balanced in all his beliefs and ways, then told partial stories from our history, leaving out the bad things he did, distorting details to make himself look good and me bad. UGH!!!!!!!!! Oh well, I'm not surprised. <P>But then, after treating me like that, a couple hours later, he sits here conducting such Godly family devotions, laughing good naturedly, talked so intelligently.... UGH!!! (The comparison of the two sides of him makes my stomach churn!)<P>He's been trying to do devotions for the past week but often uses it to preach his mindset and even to berate me in front of the kids. I told the therapist about this.<P>Tonight when he was verbally berating me in front of the kids (not during devotions)... I left the house. I called from another location and told him that was verbal abuse and I've told you before not to talk to me like that, esp. in front of the kids!! Then I hung up the phone so he could not spew out any remarks. When I returned home, he sternly rebuked me for hanging up the phone on him! <P>I need to tell the therapist I think it is time they counsel him alone and I can separate with the kids. <P>Prior to this "therapy abuse" etc....I was trying harder to get my exercise routine and dieting back on track.....now I feel drained again and nervously eating...but I've got to fight this....<P>Thanks for your support! ~Renae <BR> <BR> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 20, 2001).]

You are not doing an intelligent thing by participating in the couples therapy. Your presence tells them that you ARE an normal couple because you would not be there if you weren't.<P>The imbalance of power has now corrupted the entire process. Now these people may need to be replaced. I don't know.<P>You have paid your dues. What are you waiting for? The second coming?

I don't get it what these therapists are doing either!<BR>She told me to stay for now. She wanted me at counseling together until they could get him alone. It is dragging on. <P>She had assured me she knew, was experienced with this type of man.... But then I get the suspicion she's treating us as a normal couple when she recently e-mailed: "I am sorry that it is not going so well for the family right now. I am just experienced enough to know that it takes "two to tango," and that is why I have zeroed in on both of you. Each of you have responsibility with where the marriage is at this point." <P>WHAT?????? Is she saying this just to keep me coming? Or is she unaware that the victim is not responsible for the abuser's behavior?? <P>

Renae, you are responsible for keeping yourself, as well as the children safe. If it is not a safe environment, you need to leave. Plan B. <P>If it is safe, then continue the counseling. I pray that you and your children are safe and stay safe.

There is no abuser where there is no victim. You need to be in solo counseling to learn how NOT to be the victim. Not offering yourself up on a platter for continued victimization. <P>Your beliefs are still in the way of your protecting your girls and yourself from severe emotional and spiritual abuse.<P>Your therapist is correct in that it takes two to tango. But she doesn't seem to know enough psychology to know how that is working in a case of severe oppression like yours. You will need to break the cycle all on your own. Time to take responsibility for your own life instead of handing it over to these inept therapists.

Thank you Raskal & Karenna....<BR>I agree....I'm feeling VERY LOW today...interesting you would use the word <BR>"oppression", as that's exactly what I feel...It is so heavy....I can't go on like this. <P>I'm not convinced these therapists can work the immediate magic with him that I need. <BR>I have "led H to water" but I can't make him drink; if he wants help he can work with them alone, but I feel a desperate need to move out...GOOOOOOOOO!!!!...I'm afraid I'll lose my sanity if I don't. And I don't like how he is with the kids either....Enough.<P>Thanks for your support & prayers.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Renae (edited July 25, 2001).]