There is a difference between support and encouraging a behavior. Yes, you deserve some sympathy, but I don't buy your Anger dissertation. With that view, I'm guessing you haven't been to a counselor, or a support group, or tried to work through these issues.
What many of us have said is that Anger is destructive to us. And we're saying this from experience. Anger is just a cover for other emotions we are trying to hide. In my case, frustration and lonliness. Anger is not an emotion which should be fueled. You children are learning from observing you, and you are coming across as an angry woman. Look in the mirror, do you see an angry woman? Is it attractive?
We've all had to face these questions.

I met a woman on Sat. night with 5 children at home, whose H left to move overseas and won't support the children. She has a great outlook on life, and is managing on her own.
In my divorce support group, it is easy to see those who have progressed in their recovery, and those who are still holding onto their anger - "because they deserve it".
It really does hurt you, and your family, and your career and your relationships. Yet, it has not effect on our X. HMMMMMMM!!!

Hi Nellie,

You asked if I loved my father even if I did not know him. Well Yes I do. He is a part of me. He gave me half of my DNA chain. I also understand him better now that I am 34 and have my own family. When I was a teenager he did contact me once. Then we had some contact in college off and on.

Nellie my Mom had no choice when it came to my father not paying. You have no idea how anti wife and child support it was in those days. This coming from with my family contacts in the government not just local, state but federal. She still could not get money from him and she tried. But my Mom refused to let the anger consume her. So I thank all the million of women of my Mother's and previous generations who faught to change the laws, mentality about single family households. Really consider how lucky you have it to the past. If you do not like how your state handles things than how can you change it? Stop allowing your anger for a failed marriage and move on to other things.

My husband refered to if you were like that when married as you are now no wonder your husband left. This is coming from a man who is very giving and says nothing negative about anyone. Even when I wish he would. My H is not perfect and we have some major issues in our marriage right now. But I am not going to drown in self pitty and wallow or be angery over my H's lack of consideration for me over a ex-girlfriend who once was a friend.

As for my nick it was Pahakissa. I changed because I rebuilt myself. Hence A new Me in french. I know I have made some really stupid mistakes but I thank God everyday that I have learned from my mistakes.

Why not answer these questions truthfully:

1) Why are you holding onto your anger. After a while justified or not it starts to hurt you.
2) Does it really matter if you think your ex H looks awful or not? He could care less if you look awful or not.
3) Are you sure your children are not affected by what you say and how you act towards your ex their father. I know you do not want to but I am sure you cannot hide your outrage at him from them.
4) Do you have any adult friends? Or for your entire marriage divorced life have you only revolved around your children?

I commend you on going back to school, working full time and tending to six children. This is by no way a sexist comment but I find women are more capable of doing multi-tasks than men. Maybe that is why I admire women. I was amazed at how well my Mom could balance two jobs, two children, and improving her job skills by gaining more credentials.

I am in no way ever meaning to bash you or want you to think I am trashing you. Never was my intention and if you feel that way I am sorry for that. I really want you to know that your anger is eating you alive. I would hate to see such a wonderful capable woman be a shell of a person because of anger.

There was a period where I really hated myself and where my life was leading. I took a long hard look in the mirror at myself. I am now starting to really rebuild myself and move forward. No one can make me happy. Only me. Anger will do nothing for me but steal from me my life. Probably the best thing I did was join a support group of other people in the same situation. It helped me to see women who were in the same situtation as me. I could see first hand how women would allow anger to destroy their lives.

Actually, my adult friends think I am not as angry at my H as I should be.

Child support has not improved in my state, at least, over the past 30 or 40 years - at least in the opinion of my sister, who has been in social work for many years. About the only thing that has improved is the ability of the state to track deadbeats, because of the exponential increase in the amount of personal information stored in electronic format.

I am hardly a shell of a person. I do not hate myself. Anger over injustice is in no way harmful, and as a matter of fact is essential to the survival of human civilizations.

I don't know what all your issues are, or how old you are (I suspect a lot younger than I am), but I think it is very unfortunate that you seem to be afraid of anger. Anger is a very healthy emotion. You just need to learn to control what you do about it - slashing someone's tires is not a good idea, no matter how angry you are.

Nellie,

From a medical perspective:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anger is a very healthy emotion. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's completely untrue. Long-term anger causes lots of biochemical problems in the body. Lots of very conclusive studies to demonstrate that. Short term anger (fear, etc) are very useful survival emotions. But to deal with them chronically will take years off your life.

Repressing anger isn't very good (or effective) either. You need to work through it using a method that will work for you (my personal favorite is an SNL punching bag... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

My guess is that you come across very angry and frustrated on these boards, and that you probably aren't as bad "in person". As someone who's been here since you have shown up, I really wish that things would work out more in your favor. I do think that it's beyond reprehensible that your husband would behave in this fashion. Maybe the brain tumor will shrink and he'll come to his senses...

Hi Nellie:

I don't know what state you are in, but, since your ex is now remarried to an apparently money generating new wife, can your lawyer now go back to court and get your child support modified to include the new wife's income?

Also, I assume your D in college is over 18? If so, can she claim herself as a self supporting adult and receive her own financial and food stamp assistance? I can't really understand the state denying you assistance based on your income, but I thought maybe they would provide your D assistance on her own. Just a thought...

Ice

K,

Maybe you could make a fortune marketing SNL punching bags...

I realize that letting little irritations get to you constantly can be harmful, but I do not think the same thing is true of feeling passionately angry about some injustice - whether it is mistreatment of your child or a larger issue such as violations of human rights in Afghanistan.
It seems to not be safe to feel passionately about much of anything on this board lately.

The best way to "work through" anger is to do something about it - unfortunately prolonged court fights are expensive. I am going to see what legislative avenues I can pursue. You are right that simply trying to repress anger is counterproductive.

iceman,

Unfortunately, the courts ignore her income in this state. Apparently they even ignore his assets, such as his fancy car - he actually owns a vehicle worth over 30K, and the loan appears to be in her name alone, since he listed zero under car payment.

It is difficult to be considered emancipated when you are in college - far more difficult than it used to be. Even graduate schools sometimes ask for your parents' financial info if you are under 23, which I think is ridiculous. My daughter does receive a large amount of financial aid to cover tuition and room, much of it in loans.

Apparently they even ignore his assets, such as his fancy car - he actually owns a vehicle worth over 30K, and the loan appears to be in her name alone, since he listed zero under car payment.
???

Chris,

His lawyer told me and the court that the OW took out a 30K second mortgage on her home to buy him his vehicle. Apparently he is not the one making the payments on the second, because he entered zero on his financial statement under car payment. According to the financial statement, he is also paying no housing costs and no utilities except telephone.

I have absolutely got to jump in on this thread after reading it twice.

I feel so strongly that we are all individual in our time it takes to "GET OVER IT" (to heal). Realizing true forgiveness is not cookie cutter. We should not be pressed to perform as though on an egg timer, or expected to ACT as though we are no longer angry when we indeed are, and most likely for on-going valid reasons.

As long as we seek to heal ourselves in whatever avenue we choose, whether that be here on MB or outside of it, I don't see any harm in venting frustrations. IMHO, it's healthy to do so as long as we grow and make progress. As long as it's constructive in it's nature.

I am one of the slower ones in healing, I still harbor anger, but I do know I have made progress and I continue to work towards my goal of forgiveness. It is, and I am, a work in progress.

Jo

<small>[ March 07, 2003, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I have to say that after a conversation with my stbxh about asset division today, a very lengthy and somewhat emotional one, anger and resentment are paramount tonight.

I don't want to harbor anger or bitterness, but having to deal with all of this, I can't communicate to my heart what my head tells me to do.

I don't want to feel this way. I wish I didn't. I want to be practical and fair and move on. I want to think in terms of fairness only. Why is it so hard to do??

I have to agree with Resilient. We each heal in our own time. And sometimes it depends on what is "thrown" at us to deal with. It depends on each person and each situation.

Some days I identify with the people who are moving on and somedays I am right down there in the pits of despair and fear. I hate those days. I want to rise above those days.

Nellie ---

I'm so WITH YOU on this particular topic....

Those who are out there earning the big bucks and covering it by keeping the 'BUSINESS' in their new spouses name, or hiding it under the 'family business umbrella' (as in farmers), or in any other way cheating their children out of their due support and financial backing, should be tarred and feathered before the masses!

As a tax planner and business consultant, I've been asked frequently how to 'hide assets' from the 'ex spouse' by people of both genders. I have a bad habit of confiding in those idiots the travesty of what they are doing to their children - and turning them into the government! (it's even in the fine print on my contract - that I will not be a party to any subterfuge of child support or financial hiding of assets - and I've been known to write directly on the contract that I'm reserving the right to contact the courts with any information I may have that will provide for their children) Now, that I've broadcast my intent before the eyes of the world... I have something more important to say.

While I don't tolerate those who refuse to support their children from a 'business standpoint', I also have little respect for those who get "STUCK" in their desire to accomplish goals that are no longer available to their lives. IN my personal perspective, there is little difference from the one who isn't providing financially, to the one who isn't providing 'emotionally'.

I don't know where anyone EVER got the idea that it hurts a child to work and earn his/her way in the world. I have four children and my daughter worked a year (while still home schooling) to help manage our household finances while I finished getting my degree. (My ex does not pay child support - he's earning money under the table and hasn't provided a dime of actual support since he left nearly two years ago. Does he owe it? YES!!! But how much would it cost me to go after him to collect it?) My daughter is now working (as a high school Sr.) toward obtaining scholarships and grants for her own college education. I'll help her through college, financially, but there will be no help from her father. Not that he couldn't help - but he won't.

Am I angry? At times, YES! More often, I feel pity for his stupidity and ignorance. He knows it's his responsibility to support his family, but he's not doing it. He doesn't have a clue the joy in life that he will NEVER have because he's abandoned his family!!!

Is anger justified --- a resounding YES! But I have BETTER things to do with my time than waste it being/feeling ANGER at a man who hasn't got a clue. I have children to raise, a life to live, and something BETTER... I have the JOY of knowing that my children may miss out on having a few of the 'monetary' gains of having a father, but because I'm a whole complete person, capable of living my life with the happiness and joy that a whole person contains, they aren't missing out on having a MOTHER who cares, loves them, and is THERE for them, every moment of every day - even when I'm working long hard hours to support them.

Will my life get better in the future? Maybe, maybe not. I may never have a man in my life to share life with, and I may never have any more financial stability than I have right now. But... (big word!!!) I'm happy with who I am, and how my children are with me, and what my life means right now. I've got the joy that passeth all understanding - because I know who I am and how I got to be where I am right now. I know that I am giving my children the best that I can provide for them joyfully!

We don't always have money to do what we want, we live in a too small house, on a too busy street, on the wrong side of town, and we all work very hard to spend as much time as possible together while earning a living for our family. But when I get home at night my kids are excited to see me. What does he go home to? It isn't the exuberant faces of children whom he helped to create... Poor man!!!

And - I can tell you right now... That, EVEN if he comes to graduation and watches our daughter graduate, his heart won't swell with the pleasure of watching a young woman who has EARNED her place in her class, and in her community, because he denied himself that pleasure when he moved out and abandoned her.

Nellie --- it is my most fervent hope that you can at some point find the peace to forgive that dastardly man you married his self centered ways and find the JOY of living that is rightfully yours as you work to support your family! You've earned it!!!

Blessings,

Jan

Im dealing with the same kind of X as you. Its hard seeing your children go without food or not having the things they are used to. Our son just had to ask and we would give. Now its Im sorry I dont have the money, food comes first. I am now a single parent, Dad is out of the picture with OW, they are engaged. Dad works for the state of Al as a parole office with his navy retirement he makes over $45,000. OW is a full time RN they live together and house hunting in the $100,000 price range. You would think he would pay court ordered medical & school but is $1,400.00 behind. My income is $490 month. One letter since 5-01 and no phone calls. But yet he thinks his child shouldnt be mad at him? I have no hate for this man, he is a stranger to me & our son. Ive had people tell me to let it go on this site, but they dont have to feed my child. X knew my medical history when he left me. But his lawyer & MOW told him if Im not disable I could still work. 14 yrs since my last job as CNA. Carpal Tunnel in both hands. Im only 49 yrs old. I know I will make it, just hearing my son tell me he loves me everyday is worth it. We have a church that helps with food each month. Ask around there might be one in your town. Dont give up, it takes money to go back to court, thats why Im letting the bills pile up that X owes us. Dont give up.

m-17 1/2 yrs
me-49, X 43
c-13, 29, 8 gd, one on the way
d-5-02

OW-32
c-3 under 11
m-10yrs
d-7-02

My kids have worked their tails off since their young teens. My daughter in college is, as I have said, working two jobs to pay for college, while maintaining close to a 4.0 average. No one in real life, including their father, has ever suggested that they are not working hard enough.

If someone whom I had never met did something to cause my child to go hungry, of course I would be angry, as would almost every parent on this board.

Nellie, I too understand exactly where you are coming from. My H and I recently separated, and this time I am confident we will not work things out, I put a post on a couple of days ago titled Feeling like I've lost myself if you want to read it. Anyway, he has 2 kids from his first marriage and before his XW gave him custody of them, he was over $11000.00 in debt to her for back child support. He had many excuses why he didn't pay her too. At one point I found out he had used a false SSN, so the state wouldn't garnish his wages! The IRS confiscated my tax return this year because we live in a community property state, even though he didn't work at ALL last year. I'm fighting to get it back, but think I will lose. He and I have one child together and I know I won't see a dime in support. So, rather than get angry about it, I have gone to my local DSHS office and applied for child care benefits and filled out a form with his information, so IF he does get a job, the state can try to find him. I'm not going to hold my breath, but am going to pursue full custody of our daughter based on the fact that he doesn't think it necessary to help provide for his children. The main reason his XW gave him custody of their 2 children in the first place was because she couldn't afford to take care of them. Not all men are like this, so this is not a man bashing reply at all. My first X pays his child support every month, on time, and doesn't have to have his wages garnished to "force" him to pay. I wish you good luck, but I'm afraid you are not going to see a dime and your X will continue to come up with excuse after excuse as to why he cannot get a good job, keep a job, etc. It's sad that some parents do not find their children important enough to support.

Your situation (and those like yours) I **hope** are the exception! I can only imagine how horrible this ongoing torture is for you, Nellie.

In my case, I wanted nothing from my ex. I had the kids (now adults) at first, and he offered to pay the rent on the house ($600 at the time) and I graciously accepted that. Nothing was in our divorce agreement about child support --I didn't take any of his retirement (although I could have since we'd been married 20 years; clearly a 'long term' marriage)... and when I moved away and he had the kids (our son was still a minor) he did not ask for child support... although I gave him my half of the tax return for that year, allowed him to sell my car and keep the cash, and some other things...

My husband has two minor children, and he is unemployed at the moment. Up until last week, no matter what was happening in our lives, he paid his support, even before we ate. He is a great dad, and provided well for his kids in the divorce agreement. His ex is worried about when he'll get another job (me too!) but she's being kindhearted since he didn't ask for this financial mess we now face.

I say all that to say... your situation is nothing like either mine with my ex, or my husband's with his ex. Nellie, I think this is why so many cannot begin to understand what you're going through... but I will say one thing... to the person who suggested going for the new wife's income: PARISH THE THOUGHT. Reading that made my skin crawl. I didn't have my husband's children, and I don't think I should have to pay for them just because I married my husband. Just wanted to add that... scary stuff.

Anyway, Nellie, I have no idea WHAT you should do... just wanted to drop by, tell you that not 'everyone' is as cold-hearted as your ex has become... and I just hope that someday he snaps out of whatever mental problem he's facing and you get everything you want for your life, and that of your children.

rainygirl,

People say that you should look to how a man treats his mother to see how he will treat his wife - I think that it is also a good idea for second wives to look at how he treats his first wife and his kids to see how he will treat his future wife and any future children. They may have plenty of excuses, but they are usually just that.

Sheryl,

Thanks for dropping by. In my state, the second wife's income is not considered in child support. However, the father's resources are considered in paying for college and some other things - so, for instance, if he and a future wife were to buy a mansion together, that would be considered in determining how much he could afford to pay - and if she paid for the entire mansion, tough. What bothers me is not that her income is taken into account, but that the magistrate refused to take into account the fact that he has no housing expenses, and no car payment, yet he owns an expensive car, and he doesn't have to work anything close to a forty hour week. Clearly he does have the resources to make sure his daughter does not starve.