Yeah, I'm guilty, I snooped on my exW.
I visited the kids one afternoon, they usually get home from school at 3 in the afternoon, and arrived before them. The eldest son had left a key for my yougest (he had forgotten it the morning), and I let myself in to wait. I checked the cellphone (bad, BAD BOY!).

The exW had been sending the BF messages inviting him to come over on a Friday night after the kids were asleep. This is the same guy, who she says she is only FRIENDS with now, who refuses to leave his live-in GF, and for all intents and purposes, is having it off with both of them. I'm really tempted to get involved in his life this time around, and let his common-law wife know what's going on. Maybe I should just let the exW have this scumbag, but something just urks me about the way he's going about without accountability, ruining lives in the process. The exW belives she's in love with him. Maybe they deserve each other, but my kids don't deserve to be around this scumbag, and even have an inkling of respect for him.

What do you think? Will getting involved do more harm than good? Should I TELL the kids who this [censored] really is? They just know him as XXXX, mommy's friend from work, but in my experience, kids are no dummies when it comes to these things, they know whats what, generally. I see no reason why my kids should have even a superficial relationship with this scumbag, and it pisses me off BIGTIME that my son possibly has conversations and shares jokes with this miscreant. I really don't want to involve the kids, they have been kept reasonably clear of any bad emotional fallout throughout the seperation / divorce and any other problems, but approaching the exW will only be met with enough lies to keep me "pacified", I'm sure. The only other option is to approach the BF's CL wife, and ruin HIS life for him, for a change.

Ideas, anyone?
muzohead

Muzo,

What you did was more than snooping!

You are divorced you had no right to go into the house, to go through her things or any of that!

I feel sick to my stomach by what you did.

If your ex finds out about this you will break all trust with her and I don't blame her. The kids will probably suffer because ex will have to find another way to let them have access to the house and you will not be allowed in the house.

You should be ashamed.

There is no excuse for what you have done. None.

My kids have a keyless entry, they love this way of getting in, but if I ever found out my ex found the code and gained entry, it would only hurt the kids, because then I would have to get rid of it and the kids would probably have to go to a sitter when I am not home. My 14 year old would be so hurt by this.

Your ex trust you not to do this.

I am just so sad and shocked by an Mbers actions! If I knew her number I would call her right now and tell her what you did.

ANNA

<small>[ March 10, 2003, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

ANNA2000:

I know, not particularly proud of myself, having suspected she was using the phone, but the cellphone is MINE, given for the kids to use, and for me to contact them on. They are lock-up kids in the afternoon till their mother comes home.I certainly did not look through her things. The kids' phone was in the kitchen on the counter.

I let myself in by the key my son had left by virtue of a visible note on the window, which I have since spoken to both the kids about doing, as it is a security risk. They are alone in the afternoon.

muzohead

Did you tell your ex what happened and that you went in before the kids got home? I think you should. She has a right to know and to know the mistake the kids made with the key.

Does she allow you in the house without the kids there? Does she allow you there with them there?

If the cel phone is your celphone and the kids are only allowed to use it, then you have the bills and wouldn't that show who called whom when without you going into her and looking.

If it's text messaging then get the text messaging feature off the phone. The kids probably don't need that and can do without it.

You did not have to find out this way. You had no business going in there, the invasion of privacy makes me sick.

If it were your phone and you are paying the bills on this phone then you could have easily told the children when they got home from school to go get the phone you wanted to check something on it.

ANNA

Muzo, muzo, muzo! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Give me your wrist--bad boy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm going to be blunt first and then practical second.

BLUNT: I have filed a restraining order against my abusive stbxH for entering my house uninvited, without my knowledge and going through my home and my things. This means that your addictive behavior now has you on the verge of never being able to step foot within 100 yards of anywhere your exW chooses to go, never being able to set foot on her property (yard and house) without being arrested, never being able to even congenially exchange your children or co-parent, and never being able to be in the same room or area with your exW--so you won't be able to go to the baseball games that she chooses to go to and sit on your team's side of the field.

GET IT??!!

You are treading on scary, legal ground here and to be blunt YOU NEED TO STOP.

However, one thing I am learning in my life is that unless and until you WANT to stop all by yourself, you won't and there's nothing I can do to "make you" or convince you or scare you enough to do it. Muzo, you have two choices: you can either choose to end your addiction and struggle with it, or you will probably end up with a restraining order and on the verge of stalking/obsessive behavior. Is that the kind of man you are? Is that the kind of man you want to be (even if you're not quite there yet)? If this is NOT you (and I suspect it is not) then you need to take steps to stop yourself. Okay??

PRACTICAL: I like the way you justified your snooping by saying you don't want your kids exposed to this. Good one. In real life, you and I both know that even if you did ACT and confront your exW that a) she would deny it until she was blue in the face and b) it makes no difference if she has a BF because she is a divorced, single, free woman and c) she would somehow manipulate what happened to her own best advantage.

In practical life, you are pissed that you are paying for a cell phone for her to contact her BF. It's supposed to be the kids' phone!! So, either stop paying for the phone and let HER figure out a way for the kids to have a phone -or- have your oldest child carry the phone in his/her backpack so she can't use it for the BF -or- realize that you are choosing to leave this option available to her. Whichever you like.

As a divorced person, you just can no longer control or even influence her life, who she has as a BF or anything. If he is a completely amoral jerk, that is HER choice and has nothing to do with you. If you have reason to believe that the dude is harming the kids (physically or emotionally) then it is your duty as a parent to protect them and talk to their adult mother about it. If he is just a cheating, lying, scumbag but treats your kids fairly civilly and only comes over after they are in bed, then guess what? YOU CAN NOT CONTROL WHO SHE SEES, HOW SCUMMY HE IS, OR WHAT THEY DO.

It sucks, doesn't it??

I would have done ANYTHING and been patient for forever if only my stbxH would have chosen his family and our marriage over his internet porn girls and email sluts, but he chose them. For some reason, I'm not sure what, he needs them and wants them more than me. It makes NO SENSE to me why a man would choose women who would meet a man off the internet and talk sex with him right away over a decent, respectable, moral, truly loving spouse, BUT HE DID and I can't stop him. (I think it has something to do with confusing love with lust, and always looking for confirmation that he is "wanted" no matter how immorally that confirmation is acquired).

ANYWAY, it kills me to see him now...the way he is living...but the simple fact of the matter is just like a song: "I can't make you love me if you don't." Muzo, you can't stop her from seeing cheating, lying jerks because right now that's where her self-esteem is...she doesn't require an honest, true, mature relationship because she doesn't think she's worthy of that and YOU CAN'T MAKE HER FEEL WORTHY either.

Soooo...discipline yourself to never ever EVER do this again. Go cold turkey and maintain complete no-contact silence for TODAY (we'll talk about tomorrow tomorrow). And if there truly is a safety issue with your kids (which I don't honestly think there is) then speak to her about the facts without trying to control her. If you need to, take the phone back and stop paying for it. Okay???

Now, remember I said you could contact me--right? Come on, Muzo. You can do it!!

CJ

<small>[ March 10, 2003, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: FaithfulWife ]</small>

Anna2000:
Wow! I guess this is a sensitive topic for women in general, I understand that perfectly. I have free access to the house, and have baby-sat for my exW on numerous occasions. However, that was the ONLY time I went in without anyone being there. I visit the kids regularly at home when their mother isn't there (which is often).
As I said, my eldest left the key at an open window with a visible note for his brother.
Yes, I did tell the exW about it, and spoke to both the boys about it being unsafe to do so.
What I did was not so terrible, except I KNEW of course, that she was using the phone as well. This is the only "snooping" I'm referring to. She could just as easily clear her messages off the phone, isn't it? What if the kids read the stuff? It IS their phone, after all.
CJ:
I have exhibited addictive behaviour, so I guess I can't blame you for thinking I might have gone "over the edge", so to speak. But thanks for the reminder. Us men in particular, are so prone to this type of behaviour, I know. I'll watch myself carefully. I'll consider myself spanked for the misdemeanour.

Yes, I've given it some consideration, I probably won't act on it. I guess I was just venting. Probably let it show how strong my feelings are toward OM, heh?
No-contact silence? Easy from my side, I just need to cut it short when SHE calls (and she will). I'll let you know how that goes.

Love ya all!
muzohead

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by muzohead:
<strong>... Wow! I guess this is a sensitive topic for women in general, I understand that perfectly. I have free access to the house...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh brother!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Since I firmly emplanted my foot into my oral cavity on your other thread, I will try to be as gentle as I can on this one. Muzo, this is not a sensitive issue for women. You have free access to the house because for the most part she trusts you. Anna's exH and my stbxH do not have free access to our houses because when they did, they would walk in whenever they wanted to...go through our things...look through our computers...listen to our messages...take anything they wanted...and justify it. I'm not saying YOU did these things, but I am saying that if you continue entering her home without her knowledge and looking through something that is in her home, the "free access" may not be so free anymore. If you want to continue "free access" then you must behave in a way that warrants some level of trust. Make sense??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I have exhibited addictive behaviour, so I guess I can't blame you for thinking I might have gone "over the edge", so to speak. But thanks for the reminder. Us men in particular, are so prone to this type of behaviour, I know. I'll watch myself carefully. I'll consider myself spanked for the misdemeanour. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, just to be crystal clear, that spanking was a joke. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> See, my evil sense of humor?? My devil horns are just PROTRUDING, I'm telling ya!

Muzo, I don't really think you went "over the edge" but you are beginning to get into some dicey stuff that could look bad legally. That's all. I'm trying to give you and opportunity to see what it might look like to an outsider, and the way it looks is mildly odd. If you can see how a 3rd party observer might see entering her home uninvited and looking through her cell phone, hopefully you can stop yourself before you do lose "free access."

Of course you are free to choose to do whatever you see fit. You get to choose the kind of person you are and the kind of person you will be...and you get to see if you have the courage to change from the person you are to the person you want to be. Gosh, right now I'm a person with a foot in her mouth!! heehee. But I want to be a person who is wise and assists people in DOING what they know in their souls they need to do, even if it is hard. Soooo...Step One is to admit I can't help anyone with this foot in my mouth, huh??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>No-contact silence? Easy from my side, I just need to cut it short when SHE calls (and she will). I'll let you know how that goes. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay...I do not call my stbxH. When I am tempted to call my stbxH, I have several "tricks" I use to help myself avoid temptation: 1) I wait 15 minutes (buy time) and usually by then I'm on to some other project. This one is helpful if the temptation to call is very strong, because even *I* can make it through 15 minutes...and if I have to, I just keep making it 15 minutes at a time. 2) I call a friend instead--especially someone I have told that when I'm tempted to call I'm going to call them; however, sometimes I just want to chit chat with someone so I call someone else. 3) I take the phone off the hook. 4) I write out whatever it is I need to say. 5) I write to someone else. You get the idea, right?

HOWEVER, no matter how diligently I do not initiate contact, my stbxH will invariably try to contact me...and even according to our RO, he can contact me to arrange schedules and child visitation. Well...you can not IMAGINE how many things he can come up with that involve schedules and visitation! Heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So, I answer as briefly as I can...stay on the ONE topic (don't get hooked into any other discussion)...repeat my answer over and over...and when I don't know what to do, I say, "I can not talk now" and hang up. I do not explain myself, I just keep it as close to "yes" and "no" as I can.

For example, if my son is going to go visit his dad, but the plans change, my stbxH calls me about it. He'll say, "XY and Z happened and Josh wants to stay home but we decided to do ABC on Friday" and I'll say, "That does not work for me--I already had plans" "Well, can't you change them? What are you going to do, go on a date? I have a right to see my son. You can't keep him from..." and I'll say, "I can't talk right now. Bye." That was a hook to start yelling at me and giving me guilt and maybe even make me angry so he could tell me I'm the one with the anger problem!!

OTOH, if he says, "XY and Z happened and Josh wants to stay home but we decided to do ABC on Friday" and I say, "That does not work for me--I already had plans" and he says "Could we try for Thursday then or earlier in the evening?" then I'll say, "Yes. Early in the evening is fine." See?? Short and sweet--get in, get out--yes or no--no explanations.

Keep at it muzo. No contact for TONIGHT. If she calls you, be factual and keep it short. Try...you can do it!! Cold turkey! Write on your mirror: "She is an addiction and I am in recovery!" Go, Muzo, go!!!!

CJ

muzo,

Faithful wife is right, it has nothing to do with being female. Men and women alike don't want snoopers in their house.

Our ex's don't have the trust because they broke it, we can relate. We don't want you to ruin the trust your ex has with you. You will regret it.

ANNA

P.S.

One final thing that doesn't relate to you, but on 41's thread, I saw your comments and I think you made some really valid points, but try not to excuse valid points the women made on there. He doesn't want to leave, you can't change another person, so why not work on yourself.

Also, Am I the only one that thinks he is having an EA with someone? Shouldn't we know by now when someone thinks their marriage is completely without hope, there's someone else involved? and sure enough...he complains about his wife accusing him of an affair, he complains wife got upset because he talks to her on the internet alot, and the lady he talks to got hurt cause his wife said "no" when they invited her to join them on talks on the internet. Sheesh, I don't like threesome's either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He is getting his EN's met elsewhere and it is causing worse friction, AND again, I am not saying he isn't living with someone who needs to change because she definitely needs to change, but just like with the EA, he could use some changing as well. Anyway, I didn't want to get on a debate about someone else, he won't ever see that, but thought I would point that out to you.

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

muzohead, I already responded to your other post before reading this one, but boundaries still seem to be the main issue here. Your exW is trying to cast you in the role of "best friend" and you're basically taking whatever you can get from her. Because of the poor boundaries in your relationship, you seem to feel fairly comfortable still coming and going freely in her life. You don't sound like a "stalker" but, for your own sake, you've let yourself become too much of a convenience in her current post-divorce life. You are not treating yourself with respect and therefore, neither is she.

Back off, not just for her sake because you're snooping, but even more for your own sake. Treat yourself with more respect. I may be projecting my own issues here, but I know I let my H take advantage of me and lie to me over and over again in order to maintain a relationship, ANY relationship with him. Definitely not healthy and definitely not likely to win her back or to help you move on.