We have been married for twenty-two years. This is a lengthy story but I would rather get the story straight and leave nothing out. My wife had an affair with a man she worked with last year, she says its all over now but is still friends with him, which is upsetting me incredibly. Am I wrong? This all started early last year, I had to go away on work for a few weeks unexpectedly, something that was completely beyond my control. I missed her birthday while I was away, but did bring her home a lovely gift and phoned her every day. While I was away I kept on telling her to go out now and again with some of her girlfriends which she did occasionally. It so happened that I was delayed in coming home for an additional week also completely beyond my control. The plane arrived in late, my luggage got lost and I was pretty flustered. Over the weekend my wife told me she was going out with one of her girlfriends on the Monday night straight after work and she would be home later. This did not worry me at all. When she got home that Monday night she seduced me like never before and we made passionate love like we had never had in many years, but I just felt something was not right. The next morning I checked the trunk of the car and found a bag containing her best sexy lingerie. I approached her with it and she got very upset and apologetic and promised me nothing happened and eventually told me who it was, this guy she was working with, they went out for drinks. He had become a good friend and had helped her a lot at the company they were working for. I believed her. This took a few weeks for me to get over, but I did get very suspicious every time she went out and started checking up on what she was doing, which upset her. This went on for a few months and I did suspect that something was going on even though she promised many times that nothing was going on and got very upset when I checked up on her. In the interim I changed jobs, middle of the year and now have a very stressful demanding job which my wife encouraged me to take, but still suspected something may not be right. A month later it all came out. My 16 year-old SON saw the two of them necking and kissing in one of the local parks after work. This nearly killed me and I got very very upset, as she then admitted that she had a relationship with this man and had made love to him, she says only once, in his car at a sheltered spot next to the river……, although I know in my heart that it was in a park one night after they had been out for a company dinner... This nearly wiped me out, as I am not that big a person and have always felt embarrassed because I am not that well endowed and this guy is a lot bigger than me, both in stature and his penis. We were both virgins when we met each other. My wife even admitted this to me when I asked her. No, I did not kick my wife out, I was very upset more because of all the lies, but insisted she stay and we resolve this and get on with our lives and patch things up. It has taken me a long time to deal with what has happened and I feel absolutely useless, worthless and a fool. Yes, I have got a bit possessive now and she gets very upset because I keep on checking up on her, but all I want is to get this behind us, get the truth out in the open and go on. I am willing to go for counselling but she does not want to, as she insists that no-one can help her with the way she feels. She tells me that she still loves me but refuses to break off the friendship with this guy and insists that they are just friends and I am just trying to “Control” her by insisting that she stops seeing him altogether, even though it is hurting me so much. We have had many arguments about this and she often goes out with her girlfriends as she says she needs some space from me. One of these friends is a divorcee who has already told me that I must go out and find my own friends and let my wife have her own friends. Later last year I discovered that she had changed the mailing address for her cellphone account to his address. When I asked her about it she said she was sick of me checking up on her and that it was her private business and nothing to do with me and that all I wanted to see was how many times she had been phoning him. Late last year I eventually convinced her to get the account mailed back to our home address. I thought things were really improving before Christmas, but then I noticed on Christmas day that she had a new 14 carat gold bracelet on. When I asked her where she got it from, she first told me she bought it herself on a sale. Later when I asked her again she admitted that the same guy had given it to her for Christmas. This upset the rest of my day, as it was a much fancier gift than the gold chain and pendant that I had given my wife. How can I now believe that it is just a casual friendship? Do men really give this type of gift to someone who is just a friend, I find this hard to believe, or am I wrong? My children are very upset about the situation too and I can see it is affecting their life and schoolwork. My daughter keeps on asking why her mother is talking and treating me so lousy. I really love my wife tremendously and out of respect for my wife have told no-one about this up to now but just don’t know how to deal with it anymore. She is all I have and really do not want to lose her. AM I WRONG IN ASKING HER TO GIVE UP THIS “FRIENDSHIP” FOR OUR SAKES? Can I really believe this is just a friendship?<BR>I really do not want to end this marriage, I love my wife very very much. She says she needs some space and is feeling suffocated and just does not want to discuss it with me any more, although she is making no moves to leave right now and says she does love me, although has often threatened that she has to get away from it all. <P>

Kevin,<P>You should copy your post to the Infidelity - General Questions section, and you will get a lot more feed back to your post. <P><BR>Anyway, sorry to hear what your going through. I have been there my self. My wife also had an affair. What really helped me to understand what was happening with my wife, I read a couple of books "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley and "After the Affair", by Janic Abrahms Springs. I would also suggest you get into counciling, by your self if your wife won't go. Try Steve Harley, you can reach him on this site. Get into the Ifidelity Section of this forum and you will find alot more information on how to deal with what your going through and more support. Make sure you take care of your self. Try to eat right, rest when you can and get exercise and get the books. They will help you tremendously. <P>God's strength and much patience to you.<P>Tim

Kevan,<P>Please do as TimJ suggested post over in the General Questions section or the Just Found Out section.<P>First, your W is still having an affair it is emotional if not physical. So there is little you can do. I don't know if you have read much here but do so. Go to the "Just Found Out" section and read NSR's general welcome. Within that welcome are bookmarked many articles, notable posts, and information on Plan A and Plan B. Please read those carefully.<P>Get two books His Needs Her Needs by Harley and the Surviving an Affair, by Harley. You will find other books listed in NSR's post.<P>You have come to the right place. People here will help you. I would also strongly recommend that you try the telephone counseling with Steve or Jenn Harley, they have done many people alot of good and they can give you a plan for trying to get the marriage back and rebuilt.<P>Quite frankly nothing is going to happen until your W's affair is over. They may happen before you run out of love for her or after. That will be her lose.<P>Keep posting, reading, and asking questions.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thanks to everyone for this help, as a start.<BR>So, I guess the first step is to try and explain to my wife again that she should stop all contact with this guy.<BR>How do I do that when I have already tried twice already, once after I had been to my local doctor and discussed what had happened (I told her the doctor suggested it), and once a few months later when we had a disagreement and I eventually convinced her to change the mailing address on her cellphone account back to our home address. At this time it was atrade-off that she at least change the cellphone address as she kept on insisting that this was just a control issue and all I wanted to do was CONTROL HER??<BR>I feel if I approach her again about it, she will just get mad at me again.<BR>I am feeling pretty desperate right now as I have discussed this many times, sometimes in the wrong way (anger), sometimes calmly, to the stage where she says she just doesnt want to talk about it anymore, I must just give her time and believe that I love her.

Kevan,<P>The next step is not to talk to your wife about stopping contact. Odd's are she won't listen to you anyway. Your right that ultimately the contact will have to stop, but even if it stops, you have a long way to go. If I were you, the first step would be to get a hold of the books suggested above. The second step I would suggest would be to sit down and start reading them. The third step would to start posting and reading on the infidelity sections of this forum. Not to many folks read the one your posting in know, so you won't get much help unless you move on down to where you belong. I would also strongly suggest you get your self into counciling. Steve Harley would be an excellant suggestion. I know how frustating and anoying and crazy this will all seem to you right know, but hang in there and take care of yourself, figure out why your wife's affair happened, what was wrong with your marriage, and then start doing something about it.<P>Tim

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TimJ:<BR><B>Kevan,<P>Odd's are she won't listen to you anyway. <P>Tim</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Feb 13th<P>So, no matter what I try now, it is to no avail, she has made up her mind that she is leaving and going back to SA to her demanding, selfish, hard-headed mother who has basically manipulated her all her life. So why bother even trying anymore, I am just wasting my energy that I should be using to better myself. <P>She makes me as horny as all hell every time I see her because I am so attracted to her. No, she is not a perfect model but she is definitely attractive especially for her age and even some of my friends have commented on it and have even shown that they would love to get her into bed, even the guy I thought was my best friend finds it difficult to keep his hands off her once he has had a few drinks. I have mentioned this to her, but she says I must stop being ridiculous, he is just having some fun, but I can see how obvious it is, I am no fool. <P>Of course I am the last person she wants to get into bed with now, as I just am not good enough for her anymore and have hurt her so much with my words and actions that she will never warm to me again. She has found someone else more physically appealing that can meet her sexual needs better than what I ever have. I have always felt that I wasn’t giving her enough as I am below average in sexual girth and now that she has found a real man I guess I have lost her completely because she has found that size really does matter and does make a difference. I can see that she would just love to get back with this man and experience some more of what she had with him and is just getting more and more frustrated staying with me.<P>She thinks I am just a useless weakling, as she has already told me that she wants her husband to be a man, not a wimp like I have been the last few years and the last year in particular while I have been trying to cope and keep my head above water and stay employed so as to meet her and my children’s financial needs. Was I so blinded that I did not see what was happening, yes I did suspect things, but surely after all these years of marriage you would think that she would have approached me first and told me where I was going wrong in our relationship, even though I know myself that sometimes I do tend just to ignore things.<P>Every time she talks to me I can hear the anger and how she despises me by the tone of her voice. She has given up trying to be nice to me any longer and just views me as a burden to her life and just feels obliged to be with me until she can get the hell out of this country. As I told her last night all I want is to hold her in my arms and love her, but she said she is going back to SA regardless and I must come to terms with that. Well then, she must go and get herself sorted out whatever it takes, I have had enough of trying to suit her every need, getting frustrated when I cant meet them. <P>I know there is the very good chance that once she gets there she will find someone more suited to her needs. She has proven to herself that she can do it as she has once already in the last year, so why shouldn’t she do it again once I am out of her way? She will have no responsibilities to worry about once she leaves here.<P>I am really trying my best to get into my job but am just being overwhelmed by this all the time and find it very difficult to concentrate on anything.<BR>How I despise the day that this affair came out in the open and that the two of them were so stupid, brazen and careless to sit and kiss each other in Minoru Park in broad daylight and that my son had to see them. This just shows that she has little or no respect left for me and actually did not care who saw them together and was just more interested in having a good time. Some of our friends do use this park occasionally too as a place to relax. She must have been really fed up with me to do something like this, after me believing that she would never do something like this, as even though she used to joke around with our friends often as we all do she always portrayed that she did not like the very promiscuous attitude of the people she worked with. Although I did at the time start seeing that her attitude and level of morality was changing with time the longer she worked there with this bunch of immoral bunch of men. I did, many times try and get her to leave this company, primarily because of the health problems she was experiencing from the chemical fumes but also because of the attitude of the people in the company.<P>How do I get rid of this anger and frustration that builds up inside me every time I think of this guy and what he has caused by seducing my wife? Often when I think about it I get this horrible feeling running through my body like an electric current that is burning me. I think of the two of them making love and I get this horrible big knot in my stomach and just want to die. Every time I see a dark-blue Buick, the same as he drives these feelings well up again inside me. Every time my wife mentions the company or I find paperwork at home with the company name on it, it makes me furious. Every time I drive past Minoru Park I get so upset. I am sure that most of the people at that company know what has happened and are smirking behind my back at what a fool I have been to mistreat such a lovely person as my wife and let this happen. Mind you, they are such an immoral bunch that they most probably think, well done, at least he managed to get in her pants. <P>One of the main topics of interest around that office was sex and promiscuity with dirty jokes being circulated quite often. As an example, even after my wife had left the company, when she re-routed her cellphone account to his Post Office Box address (so that I would not see who she had been in contact with), he dropped it off at the company she is working at presently in an envelope together with a graphic joke of the Bay-Watch girls giving blow-jobs. He called it a ‘little ha-ha”! I find this pretty hard to accept that it is just something ‘innocent’ coming from a ‘friend’.<P>Besides the fact that he is still in contact with her in this fashion, I also find it upsetting that he has the cheek to go and visit my wife at the company she is working at presently. One of our good friends works together with my wife at this company. I have only had the opportunity once to visit my wife where she works presently and she ushered me outside as soon as I arrived without introducing me to anyone. Her excuse was that they were very strict about visitors and did not take kindly to people standing around which seems a bit lame to me, considering that at the previous company she was pretty open about introducing me to her workmates.<P>Slowly but surely all our friends here are finding out what has happened and I am feeling more of a fool and an idiot every day because I know that most of this has been my fault for not giving my wife what she really wanted in life, that is to live close to her mother.<P>What a fool I have been to think that we could ever have been happy here in Canada. I should just have done what she wanted many years ago and moved down to Durban so that she could be close to her mother. Her mother is now suffering from skin cancer, osteo-arthritis and emphysema, although will still not stop smoking cigarettes despite all the doctor’s warnings. <BR>We would have ended up with them living with us and supporting them, as he is just a lazy bum who thinks that we should now be obliged to support him in his old age. As an outsider I find it so difficult to accept that she is willing to go back to the two people who have caused her so much pain and anguish in her life when she was young. <BR>I suppose I am just very insensitive and don’t realize the mother-daughter bond. She has already told me that my sister is taking care of my mother so I have nothing to worry about. Maybe she is right, I should be like my sister’s husband and just accept that I must take in my parents-in-law and look after them? There is a subtle difference here, my parents were always and my mother still is financially independent to a large degree.<P>Yesterday morning I left for work feeling very depressed and was really upset and in tears. This is mainly due to the feeling of guilt that I have for what has happened and what I have done to her and the constant feeling that she is just tolerating me and is sick and tired of my nonsense and that I cannot let go of it. She phoned me a few times at work yesterday morning, but I was very busy and only managed to call her back around 10:30 am. Straight away I could hear the anger, sharpness and resentment in her voice because I had not called her back when she thought I should have called her back. This continued even when I got home last night and no matter how much I apologize to her for what has happened and tell her that I still love her very deeply, she just seems to be ignoring me more and more. She says she cannot take it anymore and I must just pull myself right. I asked her last might how her day had been and she answered, “terrible, what do you expect after walking out of here in the condition you were?”<P>Today, Valentine’s day I bought her a dozen red roses in a vase and a card, and left it on the dining room table as she was still asleep when I left for work. I got a surprising phone call when she got to work, thanking me for the flowers and the lovely surprise she got when she walked downstairs this morning. This is the first time in quite a while that I have heard a loving tone in her voice.<BR>

Dear kevan:<BR>[B] Feb 13th<P><BR>"Today, Valentine’s day I bought her a dozen red roses in a vase and a card, and left it on the dining room table as she was still asleep when I left for work. I got a surprising phone call when she got to work, thanking me for the flowers and the lovely surprise she got when she walked downstairs this morning. This is the first time in quite a while that I have heard a loving tone in her voice."<P>Nice work! That's called a love bank deposit. It's more than I got, I'll tell you! <P>So she wants someone with a huge organ? The most erotic sex organ we have is our brains. That's where the best sex starts out. I'm sorry she is so emotionally shallow. Maybe this will pass, but meanwhile it hurts like hell, every little detail drips on your heart like acid. Yow. <P>A wimp does not struggle to keep his head above water and pay the bills for his family. A wimp walks away, disappears, takes on a new identity, or has affairs. He doesn't hang in and keep on plugging. You have courage kevan, and you don't recognize it.<P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B>Dear kevan:<BR>[B] Feb 13th<P> You have courage kevan, and you don't recognize it.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks Belle, encouragement like this is a big help.<P>HOW, HOW, HOW do I keep away from wanting to hug and hold my beautiful wife. Through all this, it has not made me pull away from her. I feel the desperate need continuously to get physically close to her and hold her. How do I suppress this?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B>Dear kevan:<BR>[B] Feb 13th<P>A wimp does not struggle to keep his head above water and pay the bills for his family. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So thats it, screwed up again. I got home last nighta bit late from work, unaviodable. At least got a peck on the cheek this time. My wife went upstairs, came down and found<BR> me looking at her little notebook with her telephone numbers in it. It is a little business diary and I reall wasnt interested in her damn telephone numbers, was just looking at<BR> all the intersrting info they put in these littel diaries, like the maps, conversion table etc. Of course she blew a fuse and started giving me hell about me poking my nose in her<BR> personal belongings. Its not as if I went snooping in her handbag, it was on the diningroom table. So of course another argument. Even though I apologised many times for<BR> doing this I still got the cold shoulder. My 16 year old son was upset again last night about this all and is now convinced it is time he moved out for a while, says he cant take<BR> me being beaten up like this and treated like cr..p all the time for stupid inconsequential things and cant take the fact that she thinks it is till alright that she keeps in contact<BR> with the [censored] OM. I am going for counselling again tonight whether she likes it or not and whether she thinks it is a stupid idea or not.<P> Love all you guys out there that are helping and supporting me through this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B>Dear kevan:<BR>[B] Feb 13th<BR> You have courage kevan, and you don't recognize it.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, now I have done it, me and my big damn mouth, when will I ever learn to shut up and keep my stupid selfish emotions to myself. Somehow I think the chance of getting close again to her is now gone for good. <BR>We had a pretty good weekend, a bit strained but quite good. <BR>Then Sunday night I blew it again. Started discussing with her our relationship and what is happening and where we are going. <BR>She has just had enough of me harping on it all the time and me reminding her and off-loading guilt onto her. <BR>I am just finding it so difficult to accept that she will not completely break off contact with this OM. <BR>A few weeks ago I said to her that I cannot expect her to change any of her relationships until I can improve myself and get myself sorted out, but this is just completely eating me away. <BR>She feels caged in, oppressed and smothered. I have never meant to do this but possibly have without realising it as she had more freedom in South Africa than what she has had here having to work fullday. <BR>It is quite obvious I have not been pulling my weight enough and relying too much on her as she said last weekend she did it with the OM because she needed someone to lean on. <BR>She has now told me she will be going back to South Africa as soon as possible and doubts if she will ever return to Canada. <BR>This is all as a result of me not being able to keep my mouth shut. <BR>I told the kids everything that has been going on because they keep on asking me why she wouldnt give up this OM completely. They knew I was upset on Christmas day but did not know why until I stupidly told them instead of keeping my big mouth shut. (about the gift OM bought her). <BR>She is now sick and tired that every weekend I start my nonsense about our relationship and just feels that I will never ever let her forget it. All I want is just to get back to our old selves but I guess that is now gone forever through my stupidity, insensitivenes, and selfishness. <BR>She is very very upset with me that I told the kids everything and all the details and that I have actually poisoned them against her (my catching them in the Shopping Mall last year when I got called away from the golf tournament and went hunting for her to tell her I had to go to work, the resultant argument with OM where he told me that I must stop treating her like a child and grow up as the affair was over and they were just friends [that was before Christmas], the gold bracelet gift OM gave her for Christmas, that she was still in contact with him but I was not too sure how serious it was, that it was tearing me apart) , what a damn fool I have been. <BR>Our son got upset last night and told her that he could not take the fighting anymore, cannot concentrate on his schoolwork and wants to go and stay with someone else for a while until we sort things out. She got very very upset about this and refused to listen to our son and demanded that I put this right. Our son then blurted it out that he cannot take it anymore that she is still in contact with this OM. She told him that her relationships and the relationship between me and her were not of direct concern of the kids and that whatever happens she still loves them tremendously, but it did not end there and our son and my wife ended up having a terrible argument. <BR>In the ensuing argument she did say that she had returned the bracelet!!! This is the first I knew about this. <BR>She also feels that our daughter has been judging her unfairly and cannot see both sides of the picture and that both kids have come to see her as only their servant and nothing better. <BR>We eventually all three asked her what she wants us to do to put things right again. She said she just wants help and cooperation from all of us around the home and more consideration for her, her privacy and some time to herself instead of being tied down to the home, cooking, washing ironing and cleaning. <BR>Yes, I have expected too much from her, expected her to be totally honest with me and tell me where she was going all the time because I was so scared of what was happening and had happened. As she said to me last night I have put too much importance on my job and forgotten eveything else around me. <BR>I have been treating her like a child and know now that I have very possibly lost her for good through my pettiness and my blabbermouth. Believe it or not it was not intended to be this way but as they say in the classics "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" <BR>As she says, she has gone through utter hell these last six years here in Canada, has tried everything she can but just cannot do it anymore and feels more frustrated, tied down, restricted and oppressed than she ever did in South Africa even with all the violence and security issues to put up with there. <BR>So instead of listening to the advice I received, having some patience, and trying to get myself sorted out first, I have instead pushed things over the edge and completely torn my family and marriage apart - well done. <BR>Of course once she finds out that I have been discussing this with our good friends that will be the end of those friendships too because she will tell them the truth from her side. <P>I should have just listened to her in the first place and moved down to where her mother is staying. As she says I have put my kids first in place of our marriage. <BR>I now have two weeks backlog of work to try and get on top of, including the three days I was off work last week, but that is my fault and no-one else's.<BR>IP: Logged<BR>poodlepapa<BR>Member posted March 05, 2001 06:39 PM<P>i have been followig your posts since the begining and a couple of things jump out...i mean things that are going on...things that you describe that sound classic. <BR>i understand that it's your life and marriage that's being discussed here so forgive me when i say that regardless of how painful the entire mess is, in truth it's not really so different then many of the other stories that you can read about here. <BR>i say this because i want you to realize that many of us on this board have had to deal with very similar situations. <BR>obviously we all deal with these kind of problems differently, in terms of resolving them that is. one thing is clear however, there are certain universal responses to various situations. <BR>one is is the issue of blaim. while trouble in a marriage is always the shared responsability of the two parties involved having an affair isn't! she did it,not you! it's a cowardly and dishonest solution to any problem to lie and cheat to make yourself feel better. <BR>two, cheaters lie! that's what cheating is all about. so no matter what she says at this point, if it can't be verified, you can't believe her. <BR>three, if she is interested in resovling her marriage problems she must commit...that means giving up any suspect relationships, period. especially those with the person she cheated with! anything less is bulls---t! <BR>you sound pathetic and what you should be is angry! your children feel the anger on your behalf..why don't you? why are you making excuses for this woman? and please, don't say it's because you love her. we all have to learn to let go of the things we love when they become a detramentil to our lives. sad but that's the way it is. <BR>now i'm not throw her out but you must set some boundries or no matter how much you want it, your going to lose your marriage. <BR>1. honest answers. you must have them.<BR>2. marriage counciling and therapy for yourself and her.<BR>3. total committment to the marriage.<BR>4. respect for you and her family, (her children).<BR>5. a willingness on your part to let her leave if that's what she wants. <BR>step back, work on yourself to improve your own persona and who you are as a man. do this not for her but because you need to come out of this mess better then you were before. concentrate on the welfare of your children...you must! these are the things you can do right now to improve the situation. how she behaves is up to her, not you. <BR>stop pushing her and step back. don't be mean but be reserved. let her life take it's course and if you can't stand her behavior then ask her to leave or you and the children leave. <BR>you can't control her! only she can decide to behave correctly and she must do it because she wants to. not because you demand it. sorry but that's the way it is. <BR>once again, if you find that you can't tolerate her behavior ask her to leave. but no more fighting! it solves no problems and demeans you as a person. <BR>good luck and try to remember. if you want some one to stay you have to let them decide that it's where they want to be.<BR>poodlepapa <BR>IP: Logged<P>quote: <P>Originally posted by poodlepapa:<BR> good luck and try to remember. if you want some one to stay you have to let them decide that it's where they want to be.<BR>poodlepapa <P>Thanks guys, this encouragement is great. <P>I asked her last night why she did not tell me that she had returned the stupid bracelet that the pig gave her for Christmas, she could not answer me. I wonder if she actually has returned it or given it to this divorcee buddy of hers for safekeeping. Maybe I should show some trust. <BR>I want to write a letter to this pigs wife and tell her that my wife has promised to break all contact with the grubby-pawed bum and if she knows anything to the contrary she is free to let me know. <BR>If she betrays my trust and the trust of our children again, she will be out of our home so fast she wont know what has happened. <BR>Hey, man, I wish I had the available money to buy her a plane ticket and get her out of here as soon as possible. <BR>

<B> So just on 12 months since my wife was 'discovered' in the park kissing it up. 6 months since she accepted a Christmas gift from her lover AFTER THE AFFAIR WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OVER ...<BR>And, guess what - still no intimacy, not even a voluntary kiss from her....<BR></B><P>This is very very cruel...<P><BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<P>With all this now still going on between my wife & myself - I often sit and think, when I am in a bad mood and feeling this anger rush in again - maybe I should also go out and have a try and see what it is like to make love to another woman????<P>If she has had the opportunity to go and find out for the first time in her life what its like to make love to someone else, besides the virgin male she married, then why cant I too?<P>Bad attitude, hey - this is the same as saying, well my dear wife, seeing that you have had an affair and had the chance to find out what it is like to make love to someone else, then why shouldnt I???<P>I was feeling so angry again last night - just at the thought that she went out with him early last year with full intent of climbing into bed with him - and then bawling her eyes out the next day, telling me it wasnt what it looked like, and she didnt want to ruin anyone's marriage, making passionate love to me two nights in a row, and then still going ahead and continuing the affair and ending up screwing him anyway. HOW DO I GET THIS HURT OUT OF ME?<P>It would have been bad enough if I had just found out that they were having an affair, but after being lied to me like this, it makes it all that more difficult to get over this.<P>Yes, I keep on blaming him for climbing into her pants, but it is obvious she was just as willing to see what he had in there, just waiting for her - the ***** - sorry this sounds very coarse, and please dont take personal offense to this - the main reason I am now still so upset over it all IS HER DAMN HESITANCE FOR INTIMACY AND CLOSENESS.<P>It could be very possible, I know that, if I was put in a position where I was tempted right now - who knows what may happen - I wonder if she realises this?<P>Another thing, she is putting on more and more weight - quite ironic, last year by this time she was her slimmest she had ever been since we got married - but no effort this year at all - yes maybe it is an indication that things have cooled down with the fat oaf - but then again - I am sure a few pounds in bed wouldnt make any difference to him anyhow - he is so big and overweight, he would most probably enjoy the bit of extra cushioning.<P>It is quite obvious that the "affair" was already in full swing - at least the emotional side of it, while I was away in Quebec early last year - it almost as if she couldnt wait for me to get back - then jump at the chance of climbing into his pants - at least that way she didnt feel guilty that she was "deceiving" me while I was out of town.<P>I know that MarriageBuilders preaches that the hurt party should just do their best and "hang in there" while the wayward spouse gets their life back together - but, hell, are we not allowed ot have feelings too and expect some type of affection?<P>It is all fine and well that the deceived party should fully understand the trauma and guilt that the wayward spouse is going thru, "withdrawing" from the affair, but are we just expected to "ignore our emotions and needs" while this is going on? Are we really expected to just "grin and bear it", make as if we are happy with life all the time?<P>As soon as she can see that I am feeling a bit down or angry becauseof something that has triggered off an emotion or memory, she gets her back up immediately.<P>I am finding this very difficult to deal with...<P>How do you deal with a person that just wants to "ignore" what is going on, ignore her spouses feelings (I suppose mainly through her feelings of guilt) and just go on with life, as long as the spouse she has just hurt doesnt expect her to be "intimate" with him?<P><BR>How do you deal with a person that just wants to "ignore" what is going on, ignore her spouses feelings (I suppose mainly through her feelings of guilt) and just go on with life, as long as the spouse she has just hurt doesnt expect her to be "intimate" with him?<P>Hey, I at least got a phonecall from her at work today - but the only reason was to make sure I had submitted my expenses...<P>We are having a difficult time at work with the company downsizing - many people have been laid off...<P>So, same old story again tonight..<P>I got home before her tonight - 6:30 pm and no sight of her.<BR>No phonecall beforehand, nothing.<BR>Then 5 minutes later, a phonecall - she "had been for a swim", can I please turn the pot on on the stove with the meat in it.<P>Then she wonders why I get upset - I phone her every time I am going to be home late. But if I have to mention something like this she gets mad.<P>Well, at least she approached me to kiss me hello - rather hesitantly, but nevertheless.<P><BR>When she came home I did my best to just act "normal" - a few minutes later she says "Well, are you peed off because I went for a swim?" - but with such a look in her eyes - almost ready for a fight, ready to challenge me as soon as I had anything to say - I just said no and ignored it.<P>So again, same old story, "pleasant, courteous" talk all night. <P>I said to her tonight during dinner how difficult it is at work with all the layoffs, how low the morale is and then said to her "But dont worry I will be a good boy this time. I wont end up a nervous wreck like last time - so I wont cause you any stress" (This of course was one of her many excuses for the affair - She needed someone to 'lean' on - she wanted a husband that was a "man", not a nervous wreck)<P>She snapped at me straight away "Oh, stop that crap, are you just trying to be funny"<P>Dinner finished - watching TV - falls asleep.<P>Bedtime, I go shower, she goes upstairs to bed - I finish showering, she asks, well arent you going to sleep upstairs in the bed tonight - I said no, because I know she will not sleep with my snoring, and she needs her sleep.<P>Then I just said to her "All I am looking for is a kiss and a hug, that would make a big difference, thats all I was looking for last night too, you know" - not a word from her. <P>She got into bed, I went and kissed her goodnight, expecting maybe that she would say, come have a cuddle for a few minutes, but no, just a goodnight kiss and thats it, I left the bedroom and came downstairs.<P>Do I have to beg for her mercy now, because SHE had the affair, and she feels so guilty now, and she feels she is not good enough for me (yes, she has told me this) and now feels so difficult to show me love?<P>I have tried everything I can, believe me - but still this distancing - what more do I do?<P>She wont go to a counsellor, wont talk to anyone about it, just wants to pretend as if it never happened - well at least expects me to - but she doesnt want to get close to me - oh, yes, maybe if I ask for a hug or a kiss, I may be lucky depending on her mood.<P>And still her cellphone account gets sent to her work address, not to our home address - and she now expects me to trust her completely again? She just gets mad when I even mention it... I so very nearly demanded that she give me a copy of her last 5 months phone logs last night.<P>Anybody wonder why I still feel suspicious of her goings-on?<P>HOW LONG DOES THIS GO ON FOR - AM I EXPECTED TO JUST SIT BY AND WASTE ANOTHER YEAR OF MY LIFE WAITING FOR HER?<P>Yes, she tends for the home, besides working full-day, cooks most evenings even though I suggest very often that she takes a break. <P>I have asked her many times if we could invite friends around for a meal - everyone has asked us to their homes and it is quite obvious that some reciprocation would be nice - but no, she says she just doesnt have the inclination for it - then she wonders why her best friends are a bit cool with her? She is now finding excuses that they dont like her anymore.<P>I have even written a letter to her explaining my feelings (last time I went away) and my need to know what has happened (a very good friend found an excellent letter for me at the <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com" TARGET=_blank>www.dearpeggy.com</A> website) - but not even a word from her about the letter - I have been home for over 2 weeks now...<P>Anybody out there have some suggestions?<P><BR>So, here we go again:<P>Yesterday morning I left her in the shower when I went to work, behaved like a good little boy and didnt walk in on her to kiss her goodbye.<P>Got home last night, hey, at least got a "token" kiss hello out of her !!!!<P>We went out for dinner last night at a pub down the road - lovely little Irish Pub (both our kids were out for the night and she didnt feel like cooking for 2 of us, so I suggested the pub for dinner).<BR>We both had a few drinks and some dinner - all happy and joking. <BR>Quite a few of the men smiled at her in the pub - how do I explain to her that you dont stare at men when they walk past you in a pub, especially when you are with your husband?<BR>Anyhow, I just joked with her about this, she felt quite embarassed - I told her its those beautiful big blue eyes that everyone falls for.<P>So, got home last night - she did some washing - I was pretty tired, 10pm went and had a shower, then went to her and said to her, well, are you going to take a sleeping tablet tonight so that I can some and sleep in the bed with you tonight? (I have been sleeping downstairs on the sofa for many months, as I am a heavy snorer and she has not been sleeping well, and is a light sleeper, and whenever I sleep in the same bed as her, she ends up getting up in the middle of the night and going downstairs to sleep - but then doesnt sleep and is grumpy as all hell the next day)<P>Answer "No, its too late to take one, I wont wake up in the morning"<P>I suppose I am crazy to expect her to at least have said to me "Sorry, it will effect me too much tomorrow, but we can at least have a cuddle tonight" !!!!!!!!<P>So, she went upstairs to go to bed, I took my sleeping bag and pillows, settled on the sofa. I usually go upstairs and kiss her goodnight, but I thought last night, this is enough, lets see if she maybe comes and kisses me goodnight for a change - hah, next joke.......<P>This morning, I got up, made her coffee like I do every morning, took it to her and woke her up - but no good morning kisses for her this time.<P>She came downstairs a bit later, looking quite grumpy, I asked her if she slept well - she just answered "No".<P>Again this morning when I was ready to leave, she was in the shower, so I simply knocked on the door, shouted goodbye and left for work. No more kisses goodbye for you dear lady until I see some change in attitude.<P>To tell you all the truth, I cannot wait to get away on business again so that I dont have to see her every day and not be put in the position where I want to hold and love her, but just meet with resistance.<P>So, any further ideas on how I should try and get her to come around?<P><BR>

Keven<BR>I am the WS, myH just found out 5 weeks ago about my A that was 4 yrs ago. I'm not sure if your in counseling, but I would suggest family christian counseling, even if your W doesn't go, go with out her(she may go eventually). Have you talked to her about this site? Tell her she isn't the only WS, and she can talk to other's in both of your shoes. Tell her that I know of the guilt, I've lived with it for 4 yrs.<BR>My H can talk to you about what he feels and how he is making it from one day to he next. It seems that our marriage is now stronger than it was before. It's sad for both of us to think that it took something this gross and horrible to make us stronger. Contact us anytime you want to talk. Good luck. S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SEM:<BR><B>Keven<BR> It's sad for both of us to think that it took something this gross and horrible to make us stronger. Contact us anytime you want to talk. Good luck. S</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank you very much for your concern, and, yes, I would like to know how your husband is coping and how you are dealing with it too.<P>Yes, I have been for counselling, my wife refuses to go, says no-one can help her with her feelings, never mind a stranger. She was even angry with me going to a counselor and would be just as angry if she knew I was still posting here.<BR>We had another "discussion" today - very one-sided I guess - i had come to my wits end again and just had to get it out - I told her in no uncertain terms how I feel about her, that I still love her very much but naturally have much hurt in me still, but just find it so difficult because she will not talk openly about our relationship and where it is going, and that I despise the swine OM for what he has done to her and our marriage. All she could say, basically was that things have changed and she just feels like a caged animal and I am not letting it go at all and keep on bringing it up all the time. I tried to explain to her that I am trying whatever I can, but I just feel that she doesnt want to approach me and that I am going to have to be on my best behaviour before she is going to accept me again - hell, have I really done anything different to most other people that have been hurt by an affair.<BR>Yes, I know she has her guilt to live with, but she is just shying away from me all the time.<BR>I would be willing to chat to you kevvern@hotmail.com<BR>

Hi Kevin<BR>It has been two years since my wife had ended her affair of 15 months. We ended up separated and almost divorced after 20 yrs. of marriage and 4 children. You children, your wife and you are obviously suffering. Her guilt is probably tremendous, more thatn you can imagine. I hope you have become a stronger person through all of this. I was broken spiritually, mentally and physically as a man when I found out. But I built myself up to be the man I wanted to be. I agree that you should get some CHRISTIAN COUNSELING or hope you like your current counselor and are growing because of all this. To get right to my point. Your journey of pain and misery can lead your family to a happiness that was never known. Our stories are much a like Kevin. I wasnt you to rally look into something. You wife may be receptive to this as it is not counseling and she won't have to devulge anything to anyone. It is a marriage weekend for hurting couples. It is called. Retrouvaille. It worked wonders for our marriage and has been around for 15 years. I am going to send you the website and you can go and look at it. Maybe you can get your wife to just look at the site. Ask her to do it for the kids sake. Tell her she has nothing to loose. It is awesome and if you'd like to communicate with me my email is gregjgalle@yahoo.com<BR>my wife would be glad to talk to your wife it was her wish.<BR>please just visit this site. It could be just what will make all the pain and suffering worth while. Are marriage is renewed and greater than either one of us could have imagined. You wife has needs that are missing and it's not penis size I hope you give her more credit than that! <A HREF="http://www.retrouvaille.org" TARGET=_blank>www.retrouvaille.org</A> <BR>please look at the site for your families good<P>In Christ<BR>Greg