for those who have divorced :

may I ask what made you decide to file divorce ?
have you ever regreted it ?
is life better afterwards ?

I feel I should be divorced, I am just not good at married life. But, didn't want kids to only have single parent before they become independent; also, not sure what good the divorce could bring; I'll be so old by then, there seems no point starting a new life; also, it definitely will be a big change, not sure I'll be able to face the change; also, scared of going through the bitter divorcing procedure.

Have you also had these concerns ? what's your suggestion ? TIA

Searching...:

I was sued, I didn't file, so my response there probably isn't the one you want.
Do I regret the divorce? Betcha. Nobody wins in divorce, there are only losers.

You "feel" you are not "good" at it
...are you being told this constantly?..
You can't make this decision based on a feeling of sorts, either you have reasons which cause the marriage to be an unbearable state, or your partner is non-supportive, abusive, or disrespectful, or you have huge financial problems, or adultery......
You need to be more forthcoming about what your situation is, before anyone here will be able to give any helpful input.

Please post again, you obviously need help, and this is a good place to start....perhaps not on this particular board, ...you could post on General Questions, or on eof the other boards.

Please also DO take the time to read through the heaps of useful material on this site.

Hear from you soon
muzohead

I'm still in process, but I think I can answer from my perspective.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> may I ask what made you decide to file divorce ?
Mainly to force a reasonable schedule of visitation, he thought every other day in a different bed was fine for the girls, and to protect myself from his poor financial decisions.
have you ever regreted it ?
No, I have grown so much and I see him much more clearly now.
is life better afterwards ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, for me life is better. I am out from under his controlling behavior. I can see where I enabled his behavior and lack of parenting. I have taken responsibility for my part in the problems in the marriage, and I don't feel he was ever the person he purported to be.
I really don't miss him. I was much lonlier in the M, than I am now. And I am at peace with myself, and a much better parent without the constant stress.

I have also tried to work through my issues. One great way was the "Fresh Start: Divorce Recovery Workbook". Just completing the exercises helps to see where I was and how far I've come.
I have also learned a great deal from my divorce support group, IC, and many friends.
I wish you peace in your decision. For it is a decision, you can be divorced and angry, married and angry, or you can be either and continue to grow as a person.
Good Luck.

thanks for responses.

ok, I'll be forthcoming.

we are both in the "withdraw" state, it's rather peaceful, no fighting or anything. but I think the love is dead. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> can't revive it. we are not abusive people, nothing like that; no physical abuse of any kind. I don't exactly know why we came to this stage, too painful to think back; I guess she didn't think I was a good H material, which was true, and I have to agree. I am not poor, but I don't make enough money to give her a good life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> it's all my fault. and I see no hope of giving her a better life.

it seems sensible to end the marriage. but what's the alternative ? I don't see a better life after divorce either. I don't see possibility to get another compainion after divorce. there's no hope. yet I am too chicken to die. sigh... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> everywhere I turn, there's a stone wall. there's no door left behind either. no solution.

There are many solutions to life, oftentimes we get cauught up in our own narrow circumstances and cannot see that, or find a path...so the first step is a medical appointment to rule out (or get treatment for) depression. You sound depressed, and a condition of depression is a hopeless downward spiral..GO TO A GOOD DOCTOR. After this find a competent counsellor/support group and start talking to people about your life and getting feedback.

Keep in mind the biggest part of your recovery is YOU. You have to take action, you have to work at this...if for no other reason, then do so for your kids who deserve functional parents (your wife will have to do her own work though). Your marriage may or may not continue, but ya know, you were single when you met the stranger who you eventually married...you know how to be single, it is ok. While ideally children grow up in HEALTHY 2 parent families, it is not essential at all. What kids need most are healthy parents (single or married), and that you have control over. As for you, life will continue on, and be as good as you decide it to be (single, or willing to have a new relationship based on healthy behaviour with someone else). As for being marriage material, that is something you have to decide for yourself. If you find you are unable/unwilling to pull your emotional weight in a marriage (and that is true for some), then live a full life as a single person...you still would have family and friend relationships (which are less demanding than marital relationships). But what is more likely is that you are in a dysfunctional marriage (a common problem), and can pull your weight fine with the right woman. Marriage is not about financial success per se, the poorest people can (and do) have successful marriages.

YOur wifes need for more financial success is considered a legitimate need FOR HER (not a criticism of YOU), and could be a factor in this particular marriage failing. This will feel bad, especially for a man, but it is not something to beat yourself up for (unless you are lazy and irresponsible, in which case you need to consider why that is, and what you want to do about yourself).

Anyways, lots to do, lots of choices here, start with a visit to a doctor, and a committment (to yourself) to do the work (on yourself, and in assessing the real truth about your marriage) so you can start making healthy choice about your life.

<small>[ March 12, 2003, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

Searching:

Still not the whole story. While falling out of love? That sounds very much like what my WStBXH said to me. He was falling out of love (or so it seemed) because there was MS. MONKEYHO. Another woman.

This is an infidelity support site and marriage rebuilding site.

Do I regret filing? Sure. But I had no alternative to it. He would not change after over a year of waiting. I even promised my fIL's that if he truly had changed I would stop the process at any time..But that was before he shacked up with a 25 yo mom of a two year old in front of our precious son. Do I feel better? Sometimes. I am getting much much stronger and more self confident now.

I think he will regret the fact he NEVER ONCE ATTEMPTED TO HONESTLY WORK ON THIS MARRIAGE AND ATTEMPT TO SAVE HIS FAMILY. Not once. And he went to a marriage seminar with his mistress. Shows how much he cared for his family.

Only after really trying to I think divorce is the option. And I don't mean a month or two. I waited over a year.

I don't buy the in love thing at all. No sir. We are much more complex as humans than just a response to a sexual stimuli. Much more. It goes way deeper than pheromones or a "feeling". Committment is much more than that and marriage is more than a legal state. It is a spiritual state as well. Tell us your real story and we can help. We will certainly try.

LA,

thanks for response.

yeah, I have all the symptons of depression. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I don't understand how can doctor fix depression ? I don't think there's a "happy drug". That's why I havn't been seeking medical help. I could be wrong I guess. Another reason was, I have no desire to live for too long, so I didn't bother to fix it, what's the use anyway.

regarding the financial thing, it's not the main reason I guess. I think it started when she realized that there are better men out there, she used to say "no other women would like you". Anyway, I am no good in her mind. That hurts of course. But I can't really blame her, because it's the truth, she's just speaking her mind. I don't do a lot of things better than other people. Not making top money was only one of my shortcomings, I am perhaps just at 75% of the top earnings in my field.

I think you are right about being "Healthy" parents. I will have to think about it more. Obviously I am not healthy both mentally and physically, I try to hide it in front of children though.

thanks again.

NotPeachy,

I hope I am not a STB man in your eyes.

My falling out of love had nothing to do with affairs. I have worked pretty hard to try to give my family a better living, countless 16 hour work days...

after falling out of love, I had a brief EA. ended it after a few months. because it brought more hurt than comfort. no PA on my part. there's one OneNightStand for sexual relief. Believe it or not, there's no other sexual contact of any type after marriage. I don't know about her though, I don't spy on her, but I think she didn't have PA either. We are just "withdrawn" and have gone opposite directions. My ENs of Admiration, SF, common interests...etc are no longer met.

thanks for your response.

I notice that in your last post you mention that you had one EA and one ONS during the course of your marriage so far. If I read correctly, then perhaps so much self pity is not really in order.

I also noticed that you justified the ONS with some statement about sexual frustration.

When either party in a marriage is experiencing sexual frustration, that is the major red flag indicating a problem. However, there is NO justification for infidelity. Never has been, never will be.

There may be explanations, but nothing makes it accepatable behavior.

Do you believe this?

Searching, bud...you have found the right place. You sound like me a couple of months ago. Read here and post here. It will help. Others will help more than me, but let me try...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> yeah, I have all the symptons of depression. I don't understand how can doctor fix depression ? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They can. There are "happy drugs". You need to see your doctor about it. It will help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Another reason was, I have no desire to live for too long, so I didn't bother to fix it, what's the use anyway.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This quote concerns me. You seem to be worried about how your kids will handle a divorce. Well, the kids will handle you continuing your marriage, or a divorce (assuming you are civil to each other) fine in my opinion. They will NOT handle the pre-mature death of a parent well. Do not give up on yourself!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">regarding the financial thing, it's not the main reason I guess. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to find out what the main reasons are. Take the EN questionaires. Ask your W to take them. If she is not willing, pressure her. My wife did...made me feel guilty about the kids...I resented it for a while, but did it and I have learned much about her. I used to think FS was one of her EN's as she always complained about money (after she quit her job <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Turns out it wasn't. All the extra hours I was putting in was not making deposits, but rather withdrawals because I wasn't here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> after falling out of love, I had a brief EA. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As much as I hate to admit it, you had an affair. I did the same thing and even today try to justify it. I know the hurt it causes you and your W (if she knows). If she doesn't know, you are probably internalizing that hurt on yourself and making yourself more hurt.

You came here asking whether to go for divorce or try and save it. I had no feelings for my W either, but had one reason to try and save it...my kids. If you can find yourself one reason to try and get some feelings between you and your wife, keep reading an communicating with her.

Searching:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it started when she realized that there are better men out there, she used to say "no other women would like you". Anyway, I am no good in her mind. That hurts of course. But I can't really blame her, because it's the truth, she's just speaking her mind. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">????? Do you believe this ? Does she say things like this often?
This needs to be addressed, perhaps preferably in joint counselling. Why did she marry you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't spy on her, but I think she didn't have PA either. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">?? Why does the subject come up? Were you living seperate lives at one stage? Both of you going out on your own?
Your EA & ONS makes you naturally suspicious that she could have done the same. That's part of your guilt.

You obviously can't go on in the way you have been, so you have to decide how & when you will face this issue head-on; even if it means revealing the EA / ONS. I really wish my exW had done so to me, instead of disguising her guilt and proverbially buring her head in the sand, and disappearing into depression, when she was guilty of the same.

You are revealing bits of your story at a time. Don't be afraid to post a long story, so we can better understand some of the events leading up to this point. There's nothing that we haven't heard before, believe me.

Take courage
muzohead

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by muzohead:
????? Do you believe this ? Does she say things like this often?
This needs to be addressed, perhaps preferably in joint counselling. Why did she marry you?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I believe that. She used to say it quite often. She told her mother, father and many other people too. As I have said, she was only speaking her mind, she didn't lie at least. she doesn't say it anymore in recent years, we are in withdraw.

Why she marry me ? that's easy to understand : When we were in love, she was blinded by love, all she saw was my good points. But as years gone by, she's no longer blinded, she saw everything, of course she saw my shortcomings.

see, that's the thing, if I tell her that I felt bad about what she said, then she might not say it anymore; however, deep down in her mind, the truth is she still thinks that way. so, what's the point ? besides, what am I to rip her rights of the freedom of speech ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does the subject come up? Were you living seperate lives at one stage? Both of you going out on your own?
Your EA & ONS makes you naturally suspicious that she could have done the same. That's part of your guilt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">this subject came up because in previous posts, people asked about affairs. I was just trying to say that I don't think either of us had major or multiple affairs. I do know several men loved her, she's quite pretty and everything, but I don't think I *suspected* she had affairs. I was not running around trying to track down everything she did, because I have always thought that, if she wanted affairs, she could have it easily, and it would be useless for me to try to stop her from doing it. I mean, when the heart is changed, what's the point in standing in its way ? nothing'll be the same even if you stop it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are revealing bits of your story at a time. Don't be afraid to post a long story, so we can better understand some of the events leading up to this point. There's nothing that we haven't heard before, believe me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sorry about this bits and pieces... personally I don't like to read long postings myself, that's one reason why I don't write long stories; also, subconsciously I am trying to avoid going back in time, so my memory about the past is very disorganized; furthermore, I think some of my relatives or friends are on this site, if I tell all the little details about me, they might know who I am and I'd feel embarrassed. so pleasae bear with me.

thanks for your responses, I do appreciate it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ckd:
<strong>I notice that in your last post you mention that you had one EA and one ONS during the course of your marriage so far. If I read correctly, then perhaps so much self pity is not really in order.

I also noticed that you justified the ONS with some statement about sexual frustration.

When either party in a marriage is experiencing sexual frustration, that is the major red flag indicating a problem. However, there is NO justification for infidelity. Never has been, never will be.

There may be explanations, but nothing makes it accepatable behavior.

Do you believe this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">frankly, I don't know what to believe. I am in a confused state.

I am sorry about sounded like "justifying" ONS and EA. I didn't mean to say that I thought those were acceptable actions. I was just writing the truth about what happened.

I wasn't really thinking about if it's right or wrong when I did those. EA started because I felt bad about the marriage already, and that girl happened to be sweet and caring and she admired me in more than one ways, so I fell for it. The ONS happened because that girl was crazy about sex, and of course it was my bad that I didn't resist either; I felt bad afterwards.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CantThinkofAName:
<strong>This quote concerns me. You seem to be worried about how your kids will handle a divorce. Well, the kids will handle you continuing your marriage, or a divorce (assuming you are civil to each other) fine in my opinion. They will NOT handle the pre-mature death of a parent well. Do not give up on yourself!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">actually, my kids have grown up, they are almost independent now. I don't worry about them too much. they'll survive. Frankly, all what I am doing is just to do my duty of supporting them. Once they are on their own, my duty is then done, completed, finished. Right or wrong, that's whay I am thinking.

thx CTN for writing

I did a search on some of your recent posts and found where you were sad because you heard a friend was getting married. I'm just guessing here, but I suspect the "friend" is the OW from your EA. Trust me, I know that can send you into a frenzy. When I was thinking about OW constantly, I would call her voicemail at work, not to leave a message, just to make sure her name hadn't changed yet. If what I'm suspecting is correct, then you have only been into the "withdrawal" a couple weeks. It takes time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Once they are on their own, my duty is then done, completed, finished. Right or wrong, that's whay I am thinking.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you don't mind, I would like you to expand on the way you are thinking. If you think your duty is done with your children once they are independent, you are wrong. No matter how old they are, your kids need YOU. Your marriage is a separate decision (in my opinion).

Searching...I really think you need to get to a doctor and get some anti-depressants. I have read some of your posts and I am concerned. You haven't received many responses to some of your threads for two reasons...you haven't shared all of your story (read your explanation which is understandable) and you are of a different POV than most here. If you want to EMail me, please feel free at CThinkofaName@aol.com...I think I can relate to some of what you are going through.

Hi CTOAN, thanks for response and your caring. and thanks for offering your address.

may I ask what does POV stand for ?

about AntiDepressants, can you give me some brand names ? I have a doctor, I'll ask him about it, maybe he'll prescribe some for me.

regarding the OW and sadness. actually, it was a sad dream only, and the OW was not in that dream. the one in the dream was just a friendly co-worker, whom I can chat with. I don't even know her age or if she has BF or anything, never touched her hands nor any other parts; I wouldn't think she's a good candidate for EA. I don't talk with female co-workers about their personal lives. maybe I was just sad about the fact that, once a girl got married, I will no longer be able to chat with her nomore, at least not like the way before. actually I am a bit upset at her right now, we are not that close; maybe I was sad about not being able to establish another friendship.

the EA and OW was 10 years ago or maybe more, who's counting? one thing interesting about her was, she told me about this "love bank deposit" concept at that time ! what she said was exactly the same as what's written on the web pages in MB site, and that was years ago! she moved out of state after our EA ended. several years after, by pure chance, I discovered her phone numbers. I called, just like you, never left message. So I was not 100% sure if it's really her, but the voice on the answering machine sure sounded like her. if it's indeed her, she now lives on the other coast, we are now thousands of miles apart. I believe she wanted to end it. It was very painful for me, I lost 50 lbs the first month after she left, almost killed myself. Now I can only hope that she still misses me once in a while. sigh.

I fell into withdrawal years ago, can't remember exactly when it started, long long long time ago.

Dude...what your feeling is my biggest fear if you are still thinking about her after 10 years! I have a serious problem letting go of things as it sounds like you do too.

POV = point of view.
Medication: Please talk to your doctor. Actually, I haven't been on anything (yet...probably need to be!), but know and have read about several people that have been helped.

Dreams are normal...not a problem. Your problem is you need to talk to your wife. Have you talked to her about coming to MB? Try reading and getting her to read His Needs/Her Needs by Dr Harley.

Like I said before, can you find one reason to try??? If so, then do it. What do you have to loose? I have and now I see a future where I never saw before.

<small>[ March 14, 2003, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: CantThinkofAName ]</small>

SEARCHING:

I have to agree with CTOAN. If you don't "fix" the depression problem, if only temporarily by medication, it may be VERY hard to break out of the cycle of hopelessness you find yourself in at the moment.
It's not a permanent solution, just something you may desperately need to give you the clarity of forethought you need to formulate a good plan of action. Without it, your motivation to do something is severely affected by your depressive state. Get some help in this department. An ordinary GP can also advise you here.

Till then, you may be stuck in limbo. One can become addicted to the feeling of helplessness. Don't let that happen, buddy.
You have a lot to live for. Now CALL YOUR DOCTOR. It's a small step in the right direction. Report back.

Muzohead

My story:

I was officially divorced on Thursday. I really thought I would be depressed & veru upset, however, I felt relieved.

I tried for over a year to understand why my XH cheated on me & lied for so many years. What I actually took away from all my soul searching that it was HIS problem not mine. I have been able to put the cheating aside and really look at who my H was. Not the friend, lover, companion, soul mate or the person I thought he was. I saw a man who totally had no respect for me. Even after I found out about the A's he still continued to belittle me & blame me. It took a long time but I finally realized that even i f he never cheated on me again (as he promised)I knew he still would treat me disrepectfully. Which he has proven over & over again since we started the D.

He is a narcisist and will never take responsiblity for his actions...He still doesn't understand how his cheating had anything to do with the kids.

I hate him, but I am letting go of the anger to move on for me & my children.

We all really need to look @ the whole picture. How does this person really treat you, regardless of the A's. I truly believe that all adulterors are selfish & a selfish person is usually not selfish in just one aspect of their life. This behavior is learned & sometimes can be changed, but I feel it is that person's responsiblity to make those changes, NOT OURS, as they would like us to believe.

The hardest part of the D was being afraid that this man would hurt me even more (he wanted to stay together, but without changing) I knew he would try & destroy me & humilate me during the D. Well, SURPRISE, he did. It hurt like hell, but it validated my reason s for leaving him. He never cared about me & even after destroying my dreams & family he still didn't.

Good Luck

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by muzohead:
<strong>SEARCHING:
You have a lot to live for. Now CALL YOUR DOCTOR. It's a small step in the right direction. Report back.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually I eMailed my doctor. We are friends. He eMailed back too. So he'll find an AD for me to try I guess. I am just curious about what the drug could do.

honestly I don't see any hope. Life has no purpose. I am only trying to fulfill my responsibilities as a parent. I can't see what else worth living. marriage only brings pain. there's no lasting love. even a friendship is hard to keep, especially with opposite sex. everyday there's injustice and unfairness I have to deal with, drives me crazy. I can still think logically, I think, I still know 1+1=2, I can still solve technical problems at work, but I have no idea if I am still sane, do I sound insane to you? sometime I have doubts that perhaps I have gone crazy already. I give and give, but nobody admires what I have done. I don't think anybody in this world would remember me after I die. They might pretend to cry a little bit the first day, but they'll happily joking around 2 days later. who cares anyway.

just yesterday I met a Christian, and hinted to her that I felt sad; she immediately wanted to convert me into a Christian. she wanted me to believe in God. I think what she meant was, once I believe in God, all my problems will go away and God will show me a path. But, why she doesn't do something herself ?! If somebody came to me for help, I'd jump on it immediately, I wouldn't tell him/her to ask my God for help! This world is strange, hopeless... or maybe it's just me? maybe I am abnormal?