OMG, now I have seen and heard it all...

I guess LB'ing does have its repurcussions, but I never expected it to be from her.

Let me explain. In my anger and frustration about yet AGAIN consoling the kids for my X's actions, and dealing with his impending marriage to Clicketty Clack, I wrote him a rather nasty letter on Friday. It is the FIRST letter of that kind I have written, except to stick up for the kids and their rights before Christmas. I wrote:

"You know what?

I am tired of cleaning up after you. I am sick of you ruining the kids' lives with your selfish decisions, and then expecting them and I to think that it is all wonderful, because it isn't. You and your selfishness has caused massive changes to our lives in all areas. And we STILL have to just go along with whatever YOU want.

The time has come to tell you that you are the most selfish, self-centred jerk on the planet. Hurt me, yeah, well I can live with that, hurt my kids? I can't just let that go. I do not see how YOU, (although with someone holding your hand and giving you advice from the three divorces she has been through - and use your head.....no-one gets divorced that many times if NONE of it was their fault - it must have been so goddamned easy for you) the great family man, the once most moral upstanding and noble man I knew, who along with me once condemned people who would not work at their marriages especially when children were involved, could DO THIS TO HIS OWN CHILDREN.

None of them want to attend your wedding, so go ahead and do it there. Or here, but they won't be there. Don't wait for them to be involved. Visions of pretty little flower girls are NOT going to happen. It would be FAR more damaging for them to go when they are SO F5$@#&*G HEARTBROKEN. YOU P************K.

THEN, you call up and act as if nothing has happened, as S put it. He is HEARTBROKEN, B, and you have lost all of his love, respect and devotion. I hope what you have done with your life is worth it. Personally I do not think it WILL be. If you are naive enough to believe that the kids will be okay in a couple of years....just talk to people who have parents who divorced. I have been, and it is frightening.
Kids never forget the pain, never forget the lies, the trechory and the abandonment. NEVER.

So there. No-one has had the guts to tell you this but now it is time you learned. You have LOST their hearts, and I hope you are satisfied.

You got your wish. I hate you for what you have done to them.

Now leave us alone for a while....no-one wants to hear from you."

She wrote back:

"Jacky,

Up until now I have steered clear of whatever was going on between you and B and the kids, largely because I wanted to do the right thing and give you guys time to work things through so that we can all move forward. Also because I felt that it was none of my business at the time. It seems from this last letter that you are still very angry about a number of things and intend to remain that way for an indeterminate period of time. That is of course, your choice, until you decide to make a different one.

There are a few things I would like to address and if you are wondering why I am actually writing to you now, it's because the time has come to change the way we relate to each other. At the moment we do not relate at all and I have never been given the opportunity to talk to you. Eventhough I am very upset about the verbal abuse that you are flinging B's way, I will endeavour to keep this letter calm and reasonable because I believe it's the only way to resolve this issue.

I am not sure what the object of your letter to B was, but I am pretty sure about the state of mind present when you wrote it. We all do the best we can under some very strenuous circumstances, you, B and I. None of this has been easy on ANYBODY! B and I constantly mull over how we can do things in the best possible way to limit any damage to the kids, but it seems that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. The whole December holiday was a disaster, no matter how hard we tried to accommodate everybody as best we could. B and I tried our very best to respect your space, considering the distances and logistics of the whole situation. {Before they arrived I wrote a heartfelt letter for them not to bring her to my house, as I did not know how I would react....they wrote back that she would never lay eyes on me....well, second visit and she was there....I blew up because they didn't give a FIG how it would affect me. Naturally} You retaliated by having a meltdown IN FRONT OF THE KIDS, which had a direct affect on how the rest of the holiday was going to go. After that outburst the kids would certainly feel uncomfortable about going anywhere where I was included, because that would mean that they were betraying you. You made that quite clear through your behaviour. What do you think the impact was on them to see and hear that? Of course they are going to hate him, their mommy does! And, when they see you hurt, they get anxious and angry. So you might want to think about what you have brought to this situation thus far. This was not all set up by B. He has been bending over backwards to try and keep everyone happy to the best of his ability. Nobody can do more than their best.

As for the fact that we are getting married, he HAD to tell them. It was the responsible and conscientious thing to do. What would have happened if they heard it from his parents or from an aunt? Would that have been better?

As for the fact that I have been married THREE times.... firstly you don't know me, what the circumstances were or who I was married to. You don't know whether I tried to save any of them, or why they broke down.... So keep your judgements to yourself until you have more information at least!

This letter heralds the end of how things were. You do not have permission to vent your spleen every few months and abuse us by e-mail or any other medium. We have the right to be respected as much as you feel you do.

I am sorry things didn't work out for you and B, but that wasn't my fault, no matter what you believe. Marriages don't just break down because of one person, both parties ALWAYS have a hand in it. People make mistakes in relationships... sometimes they can work it out and sometimes not. So what was your contribution? To hang it all on B is declaring your own innocence altogether, so shoulder your part of the blame at least! B did not do this all by himself, he had you to help him.

So where do you want to go from here? What do you want for your future and the kids future? How are we going to get there? I am no longer the silent party trying to keep out of your way so that you can heal and find your feet and your way and your peace. Please Jacky, we need to get past this stuff for everyone's sake. I really want to start a dialogue between us because I truly believe that we can work things out to get to an acceptable level of civility and co-operation.

From Clicketty Clack"

Opinions please? I am very angry she wrote to me. What if anything should I do about this letter? It is making me SICK!

Jacky

Hey Jacky! Good to see you back on the boards! I've been thinking about you lots and wondering how you've been doing.

I saw your post about H getting married! How sucky! Life seems to be in a bit of turmoil for you (or is that grossly understated?).

I can understand your anger at her writing to you...how dare she? But I can also understand her writing, too.

From the outside it appears that you vented at your H in writing (bet it felt good) which is fine, but SHE wrote back in response. Hmmmm, why didn't HE respond? I can kinda see that she wants to get on with life and wants to be amicable with you. However, it appears too soon for you. Of course, in all of this it is much easier for her. She wasn't betrayed by your H and is not left hurting like you.

You are still processing the hurt and trying to deal with how it has affected you and your kids. You need time and space to heal, and her entering into the equation right now is not helping you. In time I would hope that things could be amicable between you all, for your sake and your kids' sake, but this is obviously too soon.

If you don't want to have any contact with her now then just deal with your H. If you want a response from him then ask him for one. Otherwise, I would not stress yourself and mull over the letter. Burn it and don't respond if you don't want to. Don't give it any weight unless you feel there is truth in it (even though it came from HER and is hard to take). The last thing you want is to get into a slinging match with this woman.

Stay strong and seek always what is right. Don't feel you have to be nice to her now if it's not what you can handle. Give yourself the time you need to heal, be good to yourself and you will continue to be a great mother.

Praying for you,
sp

Jacky,

One thing is very obvious to me, "They deserve each other. They are both very selish people."

Also, she sounds like the typical fog person, "We are trying to make this easy on everyone, let's all be friends." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She thinks she is very innocent and did nothing wrong. Jacky, if you write to her to try to get through to her that she had a hand in the distruction of your marriage, it will do no good. These types of people take no blame. They never will.

Focus on you and the kids happiness.

Take care,

ANNA

Oh,yeah it would make it so much easier for her if you were fine with whatever she and your husband do. That quote is ridiculous

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marriages don't just break down because of one person, both parties ALWAYS
have a hand in it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aside from the fact that by making that statement she would be admitting that her multiple divorces were at least in part her fault, the statement is clearly not true. As an extreme example, what about marriages that end because one party murders some one, or because one party develops a severe mental illness that makes him dangerous? Marriages end because someone decides he or she wants it to - and nine times out of ten or more that is because of an affair.

My H announced to the kids that he had married on the way home from McDonalds. When he dropped them off the girls were in tears, and he did not give a d***. It is all about what they want, and no one else, including the kids, are entitled to their feelings. One of my kids has said, "I can't say anything bad about OW to Dad if I ever want to see him again."

They just want to have someone else to blame for the fact that they have ruined the children's lives. They do not want to take responsbility for their actions. My H wouldn't even take responsibility for the fact that he moved an hour away - apparently that was somehow my fault too.

My H's OW emailed me on several occasions while pretending to be a family therapist. At one point in that guise she told me I didn't love my H - she must be really stupid to think that I would believe that any family therapist would give unsolicited advice to someone she knew nothing about, much less tell them whom they did or didn't love, or to think that I wouldn't be able to verify that there was no licensed professional by the name she was using. I never responded to her, and blocked her email address, and haven't heard from her in years. It may be best to just ignore the letter, because it doesn't deserve a response.

Forgive me for a different take on this.
You are still angry, and you had a right to write that letter, but perhaps you shouldn't have sent it, just used it to vent. Then write a letter truly describing your issues with the children.

I am naive in that an affair didn't break up my marriage, and I do believe that I had a part in the problems. To me, her letter sounds like many people I know who have recovered from D, and have really looked at themselves in the process. It appears that she has learned from it. (But I can understand that it may just be the FOG too).

I don't agree with the way X told the children, or acted at Christmas, but I do think that she was reaching out to you as someone who will be a part of your children's lives, and that is a good thing. I think X should have addressed your letter, and it's probably due to his conflict avoidance that she answered instead.

I have read many books on helping children deal with divorce, and basically we all need to take the high road. The children will learn for themselves about the other parent. Outbursts are not healthy for you, or for the children to witness. I suggest you read some of these books, and even buy X copies of those you find helpful.
I can understand all of your actions, at Christmas and the letter, but I think you need to find other outlets.

Jacky,

My honest reaction? When I first read the letter from the OW I thought:
1.) Why that smug, self serving little *B****H*.
2.) That sounds very much like the OW in my stbxh's world - almost exactly.
I re-read and my feelings were the same.
Guess I have alot of anger bottled up too, and it will take a long time to work through, but I feel you had a very natural reaction to what was written.
My children are older, yet they are just as heartbroken about the collapse of their parents marriage as yours are. As mother's we naturally protect, no matter the age of our kids, and your anger and frustration are to be expected right now.
I wish I knew how not to feel anger and resentment. I wish I knew how long it will take to put them completely aside. I wish I could give you some really good advice on what to do. But I can't. I just feel the pain of what you're going through and I hope each day brings you a little more peace. I will say that I think for your X to allow her to speak for him says VOLUMES about their relationship...
Time and distance for closure are what you need right now. Take care.

Dear Jacky,
Just have a moment to write..
You had every right to let them know your feelings and to reiterate what they have done. She had no business lecturing you...I would have resented that. She obviously has no remorse and no empathy--sorry if you threw a kink in her fantasy world.

My ex also was hurt this past weekend because the kids weren't excited about their upcoming marriage. They are in such a fog. They have rationalized away everything to such a degree. It is pretty sick to me. My H and is mistress would like nothing better for me to "get over this and do what is best for the kids". Yeah, RIGHT!!! They have never done what was right for the kids....and I will not legitimize their relationship so that things go smoother for them. No way!!!! They have not had to deal with the horror, pain and restructuring of our lives--they have been lost in their own little love fest. I don't think I will ever accept that.

You know, I have read all the books, I have talked to counselors, I have talked to people who are divorced....what two adulterors have done to destroy families will never be right. I refuse to make it look like it is. I don't see me ever being friends with them...like they want. I don't want friends like that for either me or my kids. Does no one have morals anymore?????? I understand forgiveness---but that does not mean I have to accept them. They are who they are...they ruined families.....they will have to live with that legacy.
I know that makes me sound holier than tho--but, I have had it with hearing the crap that it takes two to destroy a marriage. Yeah...right...that is why I hung in there for 22 years....our marriage wasn't a bed of roses, but I loved him and wanted to be with him through the good times and bad. I could have had many affairs--but refused the opportunities....often when my ex hadn't been there for months either emotionally or physically. He obviously, did not have that commitment and cannot honor a vow. He created this family with me and promises to help me raise this family--he deserted us and now whines "I am doing the best of my ability to make this easy on everyone". Well, you know what--their best isn't good enough and never will be for me.

You have every right to stand up for your kids and their feelings---because they are too lost to understand the ramifications of what they have done..

That letter to you really hit a nerve with me--what a sanctimonious b****. Sorry Pat

I feel your pain and I know that anger.

My WH introduced the kids to the OW before D-day. This came as a shock to me as she was already wormed her way into my kids life.

After D-day things changed. The best advice I ever received was as far as the kids go to put my feelings on the back burner. To encourage them to go to their dad and all my anger, frustrations, sadness to deal with that when they are gone.

My baby was 2,5yo and I had to send her too for weekends.

In the beginning it was a holiday. My kids loved it. She was spoiling them, makeup and clothes for the 10yo, dolls and toys for the 2yo. This really got to the core of my being to the extreme that I vomited. My therapist told me to persevere. This charade could not go on forever. Just "act as if" deal with the pain in your room behind close doors. The children will see right through this women. They are more sensitive than we as adults.

Always do the opposite of what WH and OW expect you to react. You will bamboozle them.

After 1 year. The cookie has crumbled. She does not get on with my 10yo at all. My baby calls her a wicked witch. I savour these rewards now because I did not have a hand in their decisions. In front of WH she is nice to the kids but behind his back she shows her true colours.

To rub salt in their wounds I on the advice of my therapist send her a card....."Thank you for caring enough to look after our children when they are with you weekends" This caught her off guard. Instead of me reeling with anger, she reeled with anger.

You must get strong enough to deal with whatever comes your way. They want to see that anger reaction coming from you, they want to see you hallowing in misery. Do not allow it.

Put your feelings aside. Now let your kids phone your ex/h. Move out of the room when they speak. Encourage them in every way to have a relationship with their dad. It is going to hurt but you will reap the benefits of it. Next time when your son speaks ill of WH and OW do not justify it. Ignore it, or remind him to respect his dad because he deserves respect.

OW is not a topic of conversation in my house any longer. Subtly, I've discouraged it. Now when my DD have something to say about OW, I listen but with honesty I will say if she was right or wrong.

As for the relationship with my children and OW now, it is hanging on a thread and where does WH fit in all this........he is fully aware, admits that children does not get on with OW but still very much in denial.

As for me I am exactly where I want to be by listening to advice from my therapist by always doing the opposite of what WH and OW expect.

Return anger with love you will confuse them and they will leave you alone.

What a self-serving, self-righteous, condescending little B**** your H has saddled himself with. She is cruel and meddlesome.

I would not dignify the verbal ******* with more than a blocking of her emails.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Wow ....

Jacky,

It is not OW's place to intrude between you and your ex. Your email was to him, not to her. I feel that now because of their engagement, she feels empowered to begin controlling the dynamics between you and your ex, and she is wayyyyy out of line. No two ways.

I know how this must incense you, Jacky, with her playing the peacemaker and trying to "handle" you while your ex sits back and watches. I can only imagine the reeling of anger and rage you must feel.

But .... if you read GinnyF's post, I think she really has something. I think you should do precisely what Ginny has suggested. The more you demonstrate your hurt to them, the more they will band together deciding that she (OW) has all the answers and is the "Angel of Mercy" saving the whole situation. Don't let that happen.

I know if you follow what Ginny has offered that you will be only going thru the motions at first, but I feel eventually it will take hold and you'll no longer be "acting" like you are not angry, one day soon you won't be.

I know I don't have the kid situation to deal with when it comes to my ex and his betryal, Jacky. So my heart really goes out to you. It must hurt beyond words.

Much Love,
Jo

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nina Too:
<strong>"We have the right to be respected as much as you feel you do."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That really says it all, doesn't it? One of these days I suppose I'll stop being amazed at how many people don't understand that respect is something that needs to be earned.

Ms. "Clack" said that "People make mistakes in relationships... sometimes they can work it out and sometimes not." I disagree. People fail to work things out because one or both parties choose not to do so, not because they are inherently incapable of doing so. To claim otherwise is to deny the concept of personal responsibility.

Ms. "Clack" is right that people make mistakes. But there is a difference between making a mistake and then taking steps to try to prevent making it again, versus making a mistake and then choosing to reinforce and repeat the mistake. Especially when "mistake" is being used as a euphemism for "sin". Nothing can justify Ms. "Clack"'s actions, and it leaves her in a very poor position to claim the high road and pretend to be the voice of reason.

I suspect that it would be best not to respond to the letter at all. It is awfully tempting to respond though, isn't it? I would be tempted to shoot back something along the lines of...

"I'm sorry, but a dialogue will be quite impossible as long as you've got your head stuck so far up your butt. It's not that I can't be civil, but there's no way I'm getting in there with you."

<small>[ March 11, 2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: GnomeDePlume ]</small>

I just want to add that damaging statements are not libel when they are true. And censure is not abuse when it is justified.

LMAO GDP! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Nina,

I agree with Gnome, but I also agree with Ginny. Your OW (and likely your H as well) are completely lacking in understanding let alone applying the concept of personal responsiblity. I too would be very P.O.'d to get a letter like that.

But I too have been there ( over a year ago) and handled it much like Ginny described. After my divorce I wrote to OW, thanking her for taking care of my children on the weekends they were there. I also expressed that while I still felt very angry and hurt, and likely would for some time, I thought we would all be able to agree that the kids should come first.

She then wrote back to me, apologizing and saying she was wrong to interfere in the marriage, saying she had grown and was a different person now (I never pointed out that she was not different enough to stop the affair- but anyway). It was still lacking as a statement of personal responsiblity, but the whole exercise was positive for me, because I felt I had taken the high road - and was making things better for my kids to the extent I could control it.

After this exchange, we reached a sort of detente. We are not friends - or even friendly by any stretch. But we are certainly civil and it has been good for my kids.

You have lots of options Nina, and I guarantee you will not feel this awful forever.

Take care,
Starpony

Jackie,

Just remember: "Special things happen to special people." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She is right about somethings, but the self-serving way she avoided taking any responsibility for what you have gone through is way over the limit. But, I don't think a response is warrented.

I think it is time to just let life take care of this issue for you. It will. Beside anger doesn't become you, and you have a life to live. Get on with it Girl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do really like the well reasoned advice you have received from others. They are right, kids do see and sense far more than we realize. So have confidence in them and in yourself. Your a keeper girl, don't forget it.

God Bless,

JL

In public: ... follow Ginny's sound advice.

Here on MB: ... follow Gnome's advice and tell US what you'd like to say to her.

Or ..... give her email addy out here on MB and we will respond to her as MB militia!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

.......just kidding ...... almost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bellevue:
<strong>What a self-serving, self-righteous, condescending little B**** your H has saddled himself with. She is cruel and meddlesome.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bellevue is right, the letter was all the above!

Jacky, I would write Bill back and politely say, "I wrote to you, I saw Ms. Clickity Clack wrote me back and I have no response to her meddlesome response. Please tell her, I will delete further emails from her without reading."

I think you should take out meddlesome but I think she probably deserves it...

Now, I think we should all have fun and write on MB the Ex from hell letter...hehe...

Dear Peewee Herman, "Tell your latest who*re to stay off my email or I will kick her A**...I refuse to involve myself with your tramp of the month. Although my curiosity gets the best of me and I wonder...Does she take up for you at bars as well? How long will it be before she talks for you in your business meetings? Does she wipe your a** when you potty as well? I knew you were a weak little weenie, but now I understand what emotional needs she is meeting....you need her to take up for you, speak for you and control you, because you didn't have the balls to talk for yourself.

Yours,
Jacky

OHHHH I am sooo bad! Jacky DO NOT SEND THAT! DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

hehe... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ANNA

Anna, loved your "response"!!!

How appropriate!! Made my day.

We love you Jacky!! Take care!!

Clickety Clack has done it as far as I am concerned. She is a B. A huge, gigantic cancer on the a$$ of womankind. What a hooo..

I believe a restraining order is immediate. I would slap it on both of them. And how is visitation? Make sure that you are the sole custodian as he does live in a foreign country and abandoned the family. I would be sure that ow is intent on forcing, i say FORCING herself into this picture.

I say forward all replies to this dirtbag fishmonger. She is a homewrecker extrodinaire! No sense of shame or regret on the fact that SHE HELPED DESTROY NOT ONLY A MARRIAGE BUT A FAMILY. I think you should let her know how also your xH was waffling a few months back. She's on a high horse about her new supposed position. I say email her these responses along with data showing how her DAMNED UNION WILL FAIL and submit the scientific studies. Then slap the restraining order. You and the kids need peace from the selfish b#stards.

DO NOT VALIDATE THEIR RELATIONSHIP OR WHAT THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO DO. SPIN AND BLAME. She cannot even explain any one of the THREE failed marriages. She is a train wreck with another happening in the near future and I do not believe anyone that selfish COULD EVER HAVE THE BEST INTEREST OF ANY CHILD. I mean, she encouraged their FATHER to LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND ABANDON THE KIDS. For once let's forget about the relationship. Anyone that would encourage a parent away from their children is NOT PARENT MATERIAL PERIOD. And time is not gonna change her. Just remember that she will be history soon enough.

Don't take it. Send our responses (you may even forward me her email address if you'd like...hee hee.) I will let her know what REALLY GOES ON WITH KIDS WHEN THEIR PARENTS LEAVE FOR SELFISH REASONS AND THE DAMAGE IT INFLICTS. File the restraining order. And block the emails so you will NO LONGER HAVE TO HEAR VIA WEB HER CLICKETY CLACKING FOREVERMORE.

My Goodness...Does anybody know a good exorcist anymore? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

JUST LOGGED ON AFTER A VERY LONG TIME...

WHY IS IT SO EASY FOR EVERYONE TO TELL YOU WHEN TO GET OVER YOUR PAIN, WHEN TO STOP BEING ANGRY, ETC ETC.

THAT WOMAN HAS NO RIGHT SPEAKING TO YOU LIKE THAT. YOU HAVE 17 YEARS & CHILDREN WITH THAT MAN THAT SHE CAN'T EVEN COMPETE WITH.

VENT ALL YOU WANT....HE'LL CHEAT ON HER TOO.