Please let me know if I am by myself out here.
Sometimes I think I am the only person who is waiting until after the D is final to date. Most of the books I've read said that you should actually wait a year after the D to date seriously.
I know I have alot of healing still to do, and I need to be there for my children.

While I am not ready to date, I have friends who are already dating Post D, but they feel they were emotionally divorced before the true.
I'd like to hear other people's ideas on this, because at this rate, I may not be able to date until 2005. Note that I'm separated 15 months, but D not proceeding due to H's irresponsibility.

Sometimes I think I am the only person who is waiting until after the D is final to date.
You're not.

I have friends who are already dating Post D, but they feel they were emotionally divorced before the true.
Which is the way a LOT of ws feel. They say they did everything they could to "repair" the marriage before they had an affair, therefore that made the affair "okay." It really wasn't an affair because hey were already gone in their mind.

Pretty much the same thing, I believe, Either you are married or your not. IF you are still legally married, then don't date.

You want to date someone for the right reasons, meaning you don't want to go out with someone because you are trying to get over your spouse/ex.

My wife took off 4 years ago and left town. So it was a complete separation, not just her moving out of the house. Very, very little telephone contact (5-6 hours? in 4 years) and she only came back to visit our daughters 2 times.

I divorced her January of last year and she doesn't know it yet.

I have not dated yet.

((((((NEWLY))))))

I usually don’t do this but I went back and found a post I wrote on this subject about a month ago to which you also replied:

LostHusband Wrote:
This can get to be a hot topic that’s been much discussed. I’ll give you my personal opinion.

The law of the Lord tells us to follow the laws of man, therefore until you are divorced you are married. Separation is a state of being married.

I think you’ll find some great advice from people who started dating too early. There are also some who think it’s OK. Personally, I was in no rush at all. I mean I just got out of a long-term relationship, why would I seek another so soon. So I took the time to heal, again a hot topic, and to become healthy. That took me personally about a year after my divorce. I now feel that I am totally ready for a relationship and yes I’ve been out on a couple dates but definitely nothing serious.

The funny thing about waiting is that as I got healthy within myself, I no longer felt the burning desire to be with someone. Which is definitely a desire that I had during separation and for a while after the divorce. I am totally happy being alone. If the correct opportunity came along now, I wouldn’t stop it, but I’m in no way out there looking.

Ultimately it’s a decision you have to make because you are the one who has to deal with the emotional consequences. For me I’m darn glad I waited because now my eyes are wide open and I won’t have to settle.

NEWLY wrote:
Agree with the first poster. Work on healing yourself first. I'm not ready yet and I've been separated for 14 months now. Although my lawyer said dating was OK, after filing for D, it isn't for me. I need to focus on rebuilding my life and caring for my children. Take this time for yourself, read all you can to make sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

Since that time my views and position has not changed. Granted you are in a long-term separation but the bottom line is you are married. AND being in this separation time gives you the perfect opportunity to do all the things you spoke of 3 weeks ago to aid you to getting to the place where you will be able to see and contribute to a healthy relationship. Probably the biggest clue to me that I was ready is when I accepted and even entertained the fact that I may be alone for the rest of my life. When I made that realization and further decided that I was just fine with it, then I knew that I wasn’t out there looking for my next X.

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

So what defines a "date" is my question, and I'm not trying to be smart at all. This is one of the most painful and lonely times we will EVER have to endure, please God! In most cases, we are the BS, going to work everyday, taking care of the house and kids for the most part, trying to hold it all together, and juggle financial, emotional and spiritual needs....meantime, WS is out there "happy", having romantic redevous every night, seemingly without a care in the world.

My point - what if you get together with a single male friend just for a drink and some low key adult conversation? Of course you're doing the same thing with female friends too.
To me this is just trying to keep what's left of your sanity and a little self esteem, while your heart starts the long process of dealing and healing. To me this is not dating, although you are out and about with a member of the opposite sex. Again, my perception is this is just some edge off the lonliness, some companionship.

Am I out in left field here? I feel I have fought hard to save our marriage or reach a reconciliation, even during the D process. But once in a while it's nice to feel "normal".

So what defines a date?

I think lust changes things. When I have had that feeling, the one I think is lust (I can barely remember honestly), it is usually after seeing a movie and that one for me was Count of Monte Cristo. Geez that guy is hot!

But to answer the dating question. I have eaten dinner with a few guys who are friends. No feeling of lust yet. Just wanting to have a good conversation and have the male opinion now and then. And never stepping over any boundary. Nope. No lust yet for me in that way. But I would imho, like that feeling to return. I have been separated a year and a half. And off and on during the first year and even for a while after immediately filing for D, I slept with stbx Darth. So I am being non lustful for a reason. I don't want to FOG MY OWN HEAD.

That should be paramount along with some spiritual beliefs now. We've had enough to deal with without having to deal with the confusion that comes from sex too soon. And dating does lead to sex right? I think it does, I mean if I can remember that far back. I did have sex once didn't I?

But the dating issue is wierd to me. Personally, I have been soooo hurt that I wonderi if the DESIRE IS EVER GONNA HAPPEN. I mean, I felt it after watching the movie. That character was soooo cool.

I recommend NOT DATING UNTIL YOU'RE DIVORCED AND READY TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT YOUR HAVING A DATE COULD VERY WELL ONE DAY LEAD TO SEX.

So in the interim, I say watch Count of Monte Cristo ladies, and let's drool over that guy. He was faithful to his fiance, was tortured and betrayed by his best friend who married his fiance and cheated on her and broke outta prison after 13 years and got even by living well and living by truth and faith.

Quote from movie: "God will give me justice". Hmmmm. I think I shall now change my by line under my name.

Just watch it or find another movie until the foggy confusion of our status is no more. We owe ourselves kindness and respect after enduring this poop.

I WOULD NOT SUGGEST DATING UNTIL DIVORCED~THAT'S JUST MY OPINION.
AFTER BEING DUMPED ON FOR SO MANY YEARS BY MY EX, AND HURT SO BADLY~I HAVE NO DESIRE TO START DATING, AND DON'T KNOW IF I WILL FOR A LONG TIME. I HAVE BEEN DIVORCED FOR 1-1/2 YEARS. SAME AS PEACHY, I HAVE BEEN OUT FOR DINNER WITH A FEW OF MY VERY GOOD GUY FRIENDS, JUST AS FRIENDS.
THE DATING THING IS JUST NOT FOR ME AT THIS TIME, ENJOYING MY LIFE A SINGLE MOM AND LOVING IT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
BESIDES, NOT IN ANY HURRY AT ALL TO BRING ANYONE AROUND MY BOYS!!

I agree, seriously dating while divorcing, in which I mean you are looking for long term companionship and committment to replace what you had in your marriage is not good. I do believe it will set you up in a "rebound" effect, and the relationship won't be lasting. I do believe that we need to heal ourselves, but each person is different in the time it takes. Proceed with extreme caution will be my motto, when I'm ready to take that step.

But I do think it's okay to meet friends of the opposite sex for an occasional dinner or drink. I think this helps the healing process. I guess that was the opinion I was trying to express last night.

Newly, I always read your posts and you've always impressed me with the strength of your convictions and your thoughtful advice to others. It is difficult as we struggle through this tangled jumble of actions and emotions, isn't it?

Peachy, I enjoyed the Count too...one of the last movies I watched with WH before he left...and yes, God will give me (us) justice - how true!

Newly,

Well I for one understand exactly what you mean. I remember longing for companionship. Just to get out of the house, escape the reality of the day to day struggles, and just relax and have some fun on a social level.

I made some male friends(non-romantic). One of whom I can honestly say has turned out to be a great friend and there has never really been any weird tension. I found that I needed that friend to talk to, to get the male perspective and just to know that I was a good person and was worthy of being loved and respected. Once again, I don't think this means in a romantic way.

That is up to you to know your boundaries, how you feel about your friends, and what your male friends want from the relationship. I suppose the old "When Harry met Sally" rules about men and women never being friends because sex always gets in the way applies most of the time, but under the right circumstances and with the right friend, an opposite sex friendship is priceless.

Of course, many will disagree with me and honestly I understand why. While on one hand I developed a dear friendship with a single guy, I also tried to "just be friends" with an old boyfriend from high school. That did not work at all. Yes, in that situation there was too much chemistry and as Peachy says... it could have definately led somewhere.... and it was not what I wanted. Luckily we were close enough to share those feelings and decide that it wasn't a good idea for us to stay in touch right now.

I "dated" someone briefly AFTER my divorce. We became friends but in that scenario, I did leave the door open for more. In the scenario of my true friend, the potential of a physical relationship just isn't there so I could easily tell what I considered a "date" and what was just hanging out with a friend.

I think you have to make that decision yourself based on how you feel about the "friend", the history you've shared, where you are in the divorce process ( ie, if still potential to rebuild marriage or not), and just your own knowledge of how vunerable you are. Remember that your "friend" will be filling some big emotional needs and this may cause an attraction that wouldn't otherwise be there.

Ok. I've rambled enough. I just wanted to voice an opinion that I'm proof that a woman can have a non-romantic male friend given the right circumstances and personalities.

PS. It's not that my friend is not attractive either. He is a great guy and most women would be happy to persue him romantically. Me, I'm just glad we are friends. I wouldn't ruin that for the world.

Good luck. I hope you find an outlet to talk, laugh, and be happy. Just be careful. The heart is a powerful thing. God Bless,

PP

I just want to throw a little caution into the wind here. We can sit here and &#8220;try&#8221; to define dating all day long. Or maybe we could ask Bill Clinton, I&#8217;d like to here his definition. But bottom line is more than likely while your going through your divorce you are not healed and are vulnerable. In a sense you are in the fog and can&#8217;t see everything clearly. I&#8217;ve had so many friends who said they were going out on a &#8220;casual&#8221; date &#8220;as friends&#8221; or &#8220;just for dinner and drinks&#8221; and the next thing you know something happened. They either prematurely entered (no pun intended) into an unstable relationship once again leading to heart break or they did something they regretted that further delayed their healing process.

I guess in the book of life, I want to read every word and experience every emotion of &#8220;Chapter 5&#8221; before I turn the page and move on to &#8220;Chapter 6&#8221;.

Just my humble opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Personally, I have been soooo hurt that I wonderi if the DESIRE IS EVER GONNA HAPPEN. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is exactly how I feel. Since my case was not due to adultry, it is somewhat different.
I appreciate everyone's perspective and am happy to know that I am not alone. I feel that my needs for conversation and companionship are being met through the many great friends I have, many I've only met recently through my divorce support group. And some of them are men, and I don't feel uncomfortable around them. I'm also blessed with a best friend at work who is male, and married, and a child of divorce. I'm friends with his wife too, and they're reading the HN/HN book together, and surprise they match. So I'm getting great positive support from so many people.

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who's waiting. Thanks. I think I should also stay away from some of those movies. I just went to Las Vegas for the weekend, by myself. An independence trip. I had so many great conversations, and not once did I feel lust. I just enjoyed all the people I met. It felt great.

Personally, I think that even going out to dinner and movie w/ someone is considered a 'date' --

even if it's w/ a close girlfriend--you've called and made plans to go out..so therefore you set up a 'date' to do something..

Just like when your married...you set a date to go out to dinner w/ your spouse...you make arraignments for a babysitter if you have small kids..it's still considered a "date" no matter how you classify it..as 'romantic' or 'non-romantic'

You can make plans to go out w/ a group of friends..and it's considered 'group dating' nothing romantic about it...just friends getting together and have fun and getting to know each other..

I consider it the same thing when I make plans w/ my kids to go skating, or dinner or the movies
we make plans to go and we set a date and time to go..

Some dates could be considered Business dates..
making plans to go to lunch or dinner to discuss business..it's still a date..not a romantic date.
but a date none the less..

But that's 'my' definition of a date..any time you make pre-arraigned plans to go out w/ someone..be it w/ romantic intentions or not..

But, I gather from what Newly is talking about is the "romantic" type dates..where you are looking for someone to spend more of your time with..and maybe get into a deeper emotional relationship with..

about 3 months after my ex left..I went on a date w/ a guy friend I've known since high school..I was looking for someone to just have fun with..no romance involved..he on the other hand was looking for romance..needless to say we didn't go out again..because he was looking for something I wasn't ready for--

I eventually ended all contact w/ the man because he became VERY possessive..thinking that because we went out once--for dinner, a movie and coffee--
that I "owed" him more..and that it was more than
just two friends getting together to have good conversation and fun..

Now, I'd also gone out w/ someone where I felt it could lead to a more 'romantic' type relationship and I took that very slowly..we went out..became really close really fast..it scared us both..and we ended it..he dated others, I didn't..I felt if I could get that emotionally attached knowing I wasn't ready for a long term relationship..I didn't need to go out w/ anyone..even as friends at that point..and I took that time to work on me
figuring out what it is I want in a relationship -

this man called some months later and we went out for coffee..I was able to sit down and explain what it is I am looking for in a relationship, and I was willing to "wait" even if it took 10 or 20 years..he on the other hand was looking at having 'fun' and not wanting something serious at that time..and knowing we were very drawn to each other emotionally--I knew it wouldn't be wise to continue spending time together..so we didn't..

now..he showed up at my house one day w/ one of his friends..wanting me to go out..I told him NO,
and I reiterated that what I wanted and what he wanted in a relationship at that time was not compabatible..he took some time to really think about what he wants in a relationship and he called me again..I went over we talked for a few hours and I left..and he took more time looking at himself..and what he wants in life, and in a relationship..and he called me again..asking if he
could come over and talk to me..he did..asked if we could just spend time getting to know each other as friends and see what happens..

we've been seeing each other exclusively for about 10 months, although, it feels longer, maybe because we had gone out before..and we were friends before that..but, during this time we have been to a marriage seminar at church..and reading here, and taken the EN's Questionaires, and taking the time to learn all we can so we don't make the same mistakes again..he asked me to marry him, so we started going to pre-marriage counseling w/ our pastor..which has made us look seriously at some small issues we have..and learn to talk about them poja certain things, and mostly
we have learned how to really communicate Openly and Honestly with each other.. no matter how painful we think the topic is..

I can honestly say that I have grown tremendously over the past 3 years since my ex walked out..and I look forward to continued growth and changes in my life in the future..knowing that even "if" something happens and we 'don't' get married, I'll be okay..

So as you make these dates to go out with opposite sex friends..make sure they know before hand what it is your looking for and make sure you understand what it is they are looking for..
because as in the case above..you may have two completely different ideas about where the date is going..and what the expectations are..

But, Newly, you know the marriage is over..and your not ready to "date" romantically, and that is okay..

And when YOU are ready to gradually step back into dating..make sure you have clearly defined boundaries about what you want from those first dates..

are you looking to just have fun? and not looking for it to turn romantic..then let them know that..

If your looking for something to eventually turn into more..then let them know that too..

don't be afraid to end it..and say No, to other dates with someone if you know "it just isn't going to work" after you've been out once....no sense wasting your time and theirs knowing it won't lead to more..if your looking for different
things..

I'd also say, if you have single guy friends that you've known for years as friends and know that there is nothing romantic with them..maybe see about going out w/ them first, just as friends, to kind of get yourself back into the dating scene without feeling threatened it will turn into something more..especially when your not ready..I think you can learn a lot about yourself in doing that..and it may help you learn to trust someone else again..just be honest with them about what your trying to do..

Hope this helps...

<small>[ March 19, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Well, my opinion on this subject now is not what it was 3 months after my XW moved out (separation). Back then, I would have said GO FOR IT, you deserve some affection, SF, yada-yada. Now, I look back on that time I dated multiple women and say it was not the wisest thing to do. My head was really screwed up, and I was probably just looking for something to make me feel better. It was a short-term fix. In the end, I felt worse by dating those women. It made coping with my DV harder. Many of the women wanted a committment from me early on, which proved to me they were just like my XW (needy, insecure, etc), and I was falling into the same trap again. It's hard to resist, but the happier you are just being alone for a few months, the better off you'll be in the long-run. Stability in yourself is a great thing to have. When you reach the point that you realize that you don't need that X to survive, you'll have come farther than most on this board.

nasakid,
In your sig line, you have, 3/03 - Dating a wonderful lady. Could this be REAL love?
Are you saying that what you had before was not "real" love?

Dating is dating. Read the books. Just talking to someone on the phone is dating. And posting on thread is dating. That is how my husband found his OW, on religion forum. And with the interaction of all of the posters get on the forums, that is where it starts. Then to e-mails. And to phone, and then to ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !!!!!

Radical honesty, needs to be instructed with your spouse. You should say, I met someone, and I am attracted to them. Not just a friend, but say I am really attracted by their .......! Then of course, your sposue sees the red flag. And of course then you can work on why this is happening, and before an affair starts, you get it in the butt, and kick the other person away, and move on to your marriage.

According to the Harleys, their should not be a friend of the opposite sex. And if you should become friends with a couple, talk to each other. Say waht you see in that person. Say what you like or dislike. So everything is aired out, and no doubt is there. Communication is the asset to a marriage.

Dating, after divorce should not happen at least for 1 year. You need to find yourself, you need to find out who you are. You need to found out if you and your spouse want to be together and date. You need to work on resolutions of family and kids. No one should date, talk excesivley, see anyone until after a year.

This is one area, that I think my WH is already involved with someone. But that is his problem not mine. God knows, and God sees all. So wahtever is happening, I am going to let God handle it.

The Harleys, have in their books about dating after marriage. Also, there are other books, and it is the same. At least 1 year. T

Just talking to someone on the phone is dating. And posting on thread is dating.
???

That is how my husband found his OW, on religion forum.
But that does not mean they started out dating.

According to the Harleys, their should not be a friend of the opposite sex.
Not quite. There should not be a friend of the opposite sex exclusive to one or the other. Does this mean that a married man cannot call ANY female a friend? Or vice-versa? No.