I've been reading these posts for going on a month and a half, and they have helped a lot. My wife seperated from me in early February. I handled it badly initially, arguing aggressively for the first week or 2. Since then, I've seen some of the issues she has brought up, i.e. taking her for granted, low priority on the marriage, not meeting her needs, and not doing anything in the last 6 months to address these issues. Now, when we speak, she wants nothing to do with counciling or reconciliation, saying she feels nothing about us and never will again and that for her, she has done her grieving and already got her closure on this matter. She feels that she will never feel anything for me again, and that there is no point in getting help, and that I am only saying that I will do the work (change) to get her back and will "revert" back to my uncaring self as soon as possible. I feel that is was a matter of communication, as I've never experienced any periods where I felt my love for her taper off. I just didn't express this to her in ways she would recognize. I've printed off all of the articles on this website, and they have been so helpful for me. Unfortuneately, when I showed her 2 or 3 of them, they had minimal effect. She said that she doesn't even want to talk about why it happened or discuss it anymore, because when she is with me, she starts doubting herself, but when she is alone, she says she knows she has made the right decision. So, my dilemma is this: The avenue of discussing this is not there, it will only push her further away. When she is alone, she does not think about this (I assume from her conversations). So, I can only assume that she will never consider coming back to work at this. The background is this: We have been married for almost 2 years. I am to be getting the divorce papers today, and 60 days later my life will be altered by the worst possible scenario, losing my wife. She refuses couseling, and further discussion on this. I feel that I am responsible for this situation, but cannot do anything to remedy it. Therefore, I feel that the only way left in showing her how important she is to me is to sign the papers, and grant the divorce. This is absolutely the last thing I want. Ironic that the only way to show her my new level of commitment is by setting her free. Does anyone see any hope? Thoughts? Thanks so much for any words that come....

((((Lost73))))

First off, WELCOME, and I'm sorry that you are here. This is a great place to do some soul searching and healing.

You made no mention of children, are there any?

Through whatever transpires you do need to make sure that you protect yourself through the process. Being married only two years I presume there are not a lot of marital assets or debts. I guess I'd like a little more info.

Best of luck..

No, no children, minimal debt and not a lot of assets. No home. 2 cars, savings, and retirement accounts that are to be split 50/50. No problems there.

Lost73,

I hope someone more qualified chimes in with better advice than I can offer. But the way I see it you are pretty much right. You could try to get a court order for counseling but that will only be viewed as an attempt to control her. The one thing that I've learned here is that we have no control over others behaviours. We do, however, get opportunities to influence their behaviors through our actions.

You've admitted you know some of your short comings so start working on them. Do everything with your head held high and use the remaining time to let her see (not hear) about what she is losing.

Again best of luck and may God bless you and comfort you through your time of trials and tribulations.

Hi lost73,
I do not have much advice for you but just wanted to let you know that I kind of know how your wife is feeling. right now, I feel like I just want out and I do not want to work on anything at all. But that is because we have discussed the issues time and again and he has promised to change but it has always been short lived. Can I just suggest that maybe you could convince her to give you some more time before divorcing. You do not have to reconcile but maybe date a little and some counseling. ASk her what she has to lose? If she does not like the way it is going, then she can call a halt anytime. AFter all she has invested her time and effort and love into you - maybe one counselling session? But of course if she has made up her mind totally then there is nothing left to do. best of luck.

You've hit the nail on the head. I have made those suggestions, and her response is she feels she gave me adequate time to change (and she definetely gave me at least 3 months) but I feel like I took advantage of the "til death do you part" and procrastinated, took advantage of her. I made our marriage a lower priority, i.e. get our financial life straightened out first, then get my professional life in order (high stress job) and then correct things at home. I say this now, but I can't honestly sit here and say I would have eventually got to it. I'd like to think I would have, but there always would have been excuses available to put it off, so who knows? Anyways, that is why she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. Too little, too late. What makes it even harder to swallow is I can see where she is coming from, and only I know how sincere I am, and cannot communicate this to her in an effective way. Hell, do I even deserve another shot?

Not that is going for sure regain her....

But give her flowers

Invite her to dinner

Go to a walk....

And in the mean time of all that try to talk and see what goes trhough her mind

GOOD LUCK!

Thank you for the good advice, but when I tried that she wondered aloud if I was trying to manipulate her thoughts and pursuading her to come back against her wishes. I didn't reply, but thought that was pretty obvious. Anyways, she has made it clear that anything thoughtful or gifts or spending time is something she doesn't want right now, and probably never again. I gather that this is a decision she wants to make without ANY outside influences, including me or a counselor. It just seems to be completely hopeless...

lost73,

It is most certainly NOT hopeless, but you are not hearing her message and you are not listening. So LISTEN UP! (I'm using my best, most caring football coach voice).

You neglected her, pure and simple. You didn't learn the plays, you threw your playbook aside, and when you needed to know the plays, you made excuses. You know it. Now you need a miracle.

Here is the game plan:

Penalty Flags That Will Stop Progress Toward Reconciliation.

(BTW--stop doing these)

a)Recruiting--calling all your friends and family and writing here and getting people on your side (against her).
b)Blaming--all the marital problems are her issues and "she's just too sensitive, anyway"
c)Having a critical spirit--pointing out every single little error, lecturing, demeaning, dishonoring.
d)Being impatient--RESPECT YOUR WIFE BY GIVING HER SPACE. Regard this separation time as time for your training program to get yourself into shape.
e)Setting a timeframe--"It's been X months; you should be able to trust me by now. How long are you going to punish me?" OY! She will interpret your lack of control as lack of understanding, and here's the bomb: the more she HURTS the longer time it's going to take.
f)Displaying affection in physical ways--you may be highly motivated to express your love and affection, but you must become sensitive to what SHE wants and put your own needs for holding hands and touching her aside.
g)Overkill--flowers and romance done now is likely to be interpreted as a bribe: she will wonder "why now?" and the only plausible answer is TO GET YOUR WAY. That's nothing but manipulation brother!

Opening a Closed Spirit

(BTW, start doing these)

a) Become soft and tender with your wife--now, you may be feeling tenderness for your wife right now, but she acts like she couldn't care less. Well keep at it! Don't forget, your wife didn't lose her love for you in one day--and you won't rekindle it in one day either!
b) Understand, as much as possible, what your wife went through--this is HUGE!! TRULY LISTEN. Look her in the eye-give her your full attention-do not look over her shoulder at the TV-turn off your cell phones and do not reply with grunts.
c) Acknowledge that your wife is hurting, then admit your mistake and seek forgiveness--this is also HUGE!!! Don't say, "I said I was sorry! How long are you going to keep this over my head!?" That's not an apology. I'm talking about a godly-sorrow here. You're a man--do R.E.P.S.! (R)esponsibility; (E)mpathy; (P)lan and (S)afety.
d) Show genuine repentance--how? By a bunch of empty promises? NO!! By actually doing the work to CHANGE and then ACTING DIFFERENTLY. Let your behavior change so much that she sees the difference.

Here's a huge step that you are totally missing, lost73: Honor your wife's fences Like a tank, you are smashing down the protective and fragile walls around her heart...if she won't let you in, you are effectively saying, "I will come in any old darn time I please! And you'll like it!" Instead, knock on her gate and let her let you in. If she does not let you in, respect that...but also, periodically keep coming back to knock. These walls protect her need for privacy and emotional space--and they get thicker when you separate--and they get PERMANENT when you divorce. So honor them now while you have the chance. When she says, "I don't want to talk right now" drop the issue and ask when it would be a better time--ask her for HER parameters regarding how often and when to call, etc.

Initiate Change Within Yourself
a)Mentally--are you mentally fit, or stagnant? What is the last book you read? video? seminar? tape? Are you up-to-date with what is happening in the world? What are you learning?
b)Physically--are you physically fit, or a coach potato? Do you take good care of yourself? Are you free of addictions? Is your appearance clean and neat or offensive and disheveled? Do you smell good? Does your appearance communicate "I love you" to your wife?
c)Spiritually--are you spiritually fit, or lukewarm? Is your knowledge of God growing deeper? Do you pray? Read the bible or torah? Do you attend services of worship? Do you discuss spiritual themes--are you a person of integrity?
d)Socially--are you socially fit, or antisocial? Do you and your wife regularly "go out" and "do things"? Do you plan outings and events (or just her)? Do you make plans to do things your wife enjoys? Do you resist social functions? Do you welcome others into your home? Do you balance work and fun?

Finally
Understanding Women

I know...I know. Most men consider this a virtual impossibility! haha. But it's not really so hard. Women need four simple things for their love to grow:

a)Sunlight--unconditional security (in other words, the need to feel physically and emotionally safe)
b)Water--meaningful conversation (talk to us as if we are important to you; not just facts and schedules, but also ideas, thoughts, opinions, and deeper topics)
c)Soil--emotional/romantic bonding (being tender, gentle, having feelings, and sharing them with us)
d)Air--positive physical (nonsexual) touch (touch my arm, stroke my hair, hold feet under the covers, hold hands in public)

What's so hard about that?? heehee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Cmnsider your relationship right before the separation. Which ingredients were particularly weak or absent? If she felt unsafe, you didn't talk to her, you didn't share feelings with her, and the only time you touched her was when you wanted sex...WELLLLLL...bingo.

lost73, I have shamelessly borrowed from the book "Winning Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late" by Gary Smalley. It's pretty biblical, so if that distracts you, you may want to reconsider..but otherwise, if I were you I would RUN straight to the store and buy that book TONIGHT. I mean it.

It is not hopeless, but it's not good and you need to get going right away.

CJ

Great thoughts from FaithfulWife! Did Gary Smalley write the book for wives trying to regain a husband's love, too?

Be patient, these things take time.

God bless, and good luck,
HP

Thank you, faithfulwife. Like a bucketfull of cold water, I needed that. She filed the papers yesterday, so on May 19th we will be divorced. Which not so incidentally happens to be our 2nd anniversary. Since I still can't find anything but love in my heart for her, I have made the decision to still be friends....is this wrong? What do you all think? I know to never bring up if she is coming back, but will she always be wondering when I will bring it up, and will this ruin any friendship we may have? I think I can be friends, even wanting her to change her mind, knowing she never will, and never mentioning this. Is that dishonest? The wrong path? still lost on how to proceed.....

Lost

You are not getting it, SPACE, work on being a better compassionate human being, you are not her husband that marraige is dead, you have to start from the beginning, 2 people who have never met. You need to be her best friend. The D is a piece of paper. Go to WWW.divorcebusting.com and see what is successful.

Poe

<small>[ March 22, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: poepad ]</small>

i know where your at lost73. i'm in the same situation presently. if it was'nt for our religion i'd be divorced now. separated 2 months now almost. as much as it hurts me i agree with faithfulwife. i just asked my wife for 2 weeks with no contact whatsoever. space was a definite need at this point. i'm sure she was glad to hear it as well. i did'nt want to do it but now that i'm 8days into it's not bad. i love her just as much but it's allowing me time to step back and look at myself. for the time being she'll file papers on feb. 2004. we have to wait a year of separation ourselves before divorce. who knows whats down the road. my wife says it would take a miracle to get things going again, but she also said she believes in miracles as well. think i'm getting a little sidetracked myself. anyways give it time and space