I was reading a post in GQ2 about kids' knowledge of infidelity and it got me to thinking. For those that are divorced/separated from an abusive ex, how much do your kids know? Do you completely hide it from the children (assuming it didn't go on in front of them)? Or do you tell them the truth (on their level) if abuse is the reason for the split?

A little background--my xh was an abuser. My kids were 5 and 2 when we separated and he had no contact with them for 3 mos. after we separated, then had very limited contact (pushed by me) for several months, then no contact for 3 years, and for the last 6 months or so he has had visitation. I've always been honest with my kids about almost anything they ask about, including the reason their "father" and I divorced. I have never bashed him in the presence of the children. I'm just wondering how others have handled similar situations.

Hey luvbird,

Good question! My children are in their teens, so as kids go they are fairly sophisticated. As you can see by my signature line, my marriage and their family has been verbally, emotionally and mentally abusive all along, so for the most part they have had their own experience of the abuse. What I mean is this: no we did not drag them into the middle of our fighting, but they were aware it was going on and they have heard their father yelling, cursing, calling me names and behaving badly. I did not have to tell them about that.

My children are also aware that their father is serially unfaithful and has had several affairs. The first big affair that they knew of was in Feb. 2000 when he moved out to go be with his OW in another state--and nothing personal, but they knew of this one because he left. When he was physically no longer present in the house, the kids were pre-teen and young teen and so I spoke to them on an age-appropriate level about what was happening. I mean, honestly, you can imagine what they were thinking!! "Where's Dad?" "What happened?" "Why did he leave us?" "When is he coming back?" "IS he coming back?" "Did we do something?" "Is he mad at us?" "What is going on?" "Are we going to be poor?" "Will we have to sell our stuff?" The lucky WS's never have to hear those questions, do they?

Anyway, for my children, I told them the truth without the smear campaign. I did tell them that Dad moved out and it looked like he wanted to be with another person...that I didn't think Dad loved ME anymore but that he was their father and his feelings toward me did not change his feelings toward them...that no matter where Dad moved or lived, that they would get to see him and he would still be their Dad...that we didn't have to move right away and they would still have their home and their beds and their rooms...that we wouldn't be "poor" but that we wouldn't be as rich anymore.

Since that time (Feb. 2000), my stbxH has had several more affairs and the kids have gotten old enough to put two and two together. I make a concerted effort not to bad-mouth him in front of the kids, but I also do not "lie" or "pretend that I'm okay" when I've been hurt or when I'm angry or sad. I try to be honest and express it in an appropriate way. For example, just this week my stbxH was trying to tell me he loved me and wanted to work it out--but he didn't want to go to any therapy or recovery program for his serial affairs or his rage. Well, I feel SAD about that!! I truly do wish he would come out of his addiction with these EAs and want to face himself, but he just doesn't! So, I cried a little and when my son asked me what was wrong, I said, "Oh, I feel sad. Dad just yelled and hung up on me again, and I was hoping this time he meant it. I'm not too surprised, but I am a little and it hurts."

CJ

I was also in an abusive M, and I too, believe it is important to talk to the kids about what has happened at an age appropriate level to them.

My sons are now (almost) 4 yrs old, and 2 x 2 yrs old. The twins don't need much talking to. I highly doubt they even remember their daddy, as it's been 4 MONTHS since they've seen him. However, the oldest is starting to miss daddy, and is FINALLY wanting to talk to him too. Visitation hasn't been arranged yet, but is in the process (it has to be supervised, due to the abuse and his criminal charges of child porn possession).

As far as talking to the kids about what happened, I just tell them that daddy did some bad things, even though he's a good guy. And that the police say he can't come to our house anymore, but that I'm working on things so that they can see him again, hopefully soon. I also don't hide my sadness, and I'll tell my OS if I"m sad b/c I'm thinking about daddy, and that I miss him, and that I'm also mad at him b/c he hurt me. I believe it helps OS to open up too.

As the boys get older, and should they ask questions, I will tell them the truth about what happened... again, at age appropriate levels.

It won't do them any favours to be sheltered from the reality of how their lives became so different.

Karen

luvbird - have you found a counseling group for abused wives. I am in First STep for abused wives. The thing with your kids, is they want to have honesty said to them. They want to know what has happened, and how it is going. They would like to know the future, but you have to tell them, that you really don't know the future. Trust in God and pray.

My kids are older. My stbxh had an affair. During his affair, he was one mad ballistic man. We would get in his territory while he was talking to the OW, and he would curse all of us. The kids he woudl call F. Kids to their faces. He screamed, slammed doors, threw things. They heard their dad, call me a F. B*tch many times. They heard him yelling, me yelling. It was ugly.

The thing is, that my hsuband is using the kids against me. We were at the lawyers office, husband, I and our lawyers. And he used the kids against me. I told his lawyer, see this is what I am talking about. The disrespect. His lawyer told him right then and their, to stop the disrespect. They don't even see where they are doing anything wrong. If you were to ask my hsuband now, he would say, he is acting fine, and I am the one uncooperating.

The little ones, need to be told, the truth. Daddy is sad, and daddy may not love mommy anymore. But the one thing, that you need to tell the kids is that daddy loves the kids. I tell the kids, your dad loves you. I will say, your dads actions are not acceptable, and yes, sometimes I am afraid of him. They just saw a father the other day, showing his anger.

But I always tell the kids, that I love your dad, but not who he is now. That dad doesn't love me, and that is something between him and God. But I told them, I did all that I could. And they know, they saw me do things that a normal hsuband would not expect their wife to do. Even my kids told me at the time, quit babying dad, he is using you mom. And that hurt to see my kids seeing his actions before I did.

Divorce is destructive to kids of all ages. I know my husband doesn't think so. But my kids, I see their actions, I see their hurt, I see their anger, I see that they don't have a home anymore. They don't have a family anymore. And I expect that within the year everyone will go their own way. Cause there is not a family here. We don't act like a family, and the kids are still on eggshells to think that something they do will do will set dad off. They have said, dad gets mad easily, and I said yes, that he is having problems with his anger.

They also at times see a caring father. And I say their dad loves them. But yes, divorce hurts kids. They don't want this for their family. Especially the older kids, my kids have had a family for a very long time. Now, they don't, and that is hard to take for me, and the kids. I really don't see where my husband is affected. He seems to be quite happy living by himself.

Like we talked about vacationing this summer. I said probably not. We havene't had a vacation since we went to my hsubands fathers home 2000 miles away. Where the other woman lived. And that is when my hsuband had his sexual encounter with the other woman. So that has stripped their joy of that vacation. Cause when we came back, the kids and I talked, each on their own. And they realized that dad was talking to someone. Cause he never never never called me munchin, and said I love you on the phone.

Abusive fathers, know how to manipulate. They will use the kids, and will coerce you into believing them. They have done this their whole life. It is a pattern, and going through the battered wives classses, it could be a learned situation. My husbands father was an abusive father to his mother. And my hsuband saw his father hit his mother. His parents divorced when he was 3. But when he visited his father with his new wife, their was alcohol involved, and his father was a mean drunk. Also, my husband saw his grandfather, yell at his wife and daughter. And one time my hsubands, grandfatther came after my husband and his brother when they were young boys. So I am learning that this is what my husband lived with. And also, his mother remarried 2 more times, and those men were not the greatest. After the 3rd marriage, she gave up.

Abusive men don't see where they are doing anything to their kids or families. They don't see the destruction that they have caused. And they think they can find happiness with someone else. But the thing is, they need individual counseling, for themselves. They need anger management.

Seek counseling for yourself, and the kids if old enough. I wanted counseling for my kids, but I can't afford it, and the father said no.

My first husband was also extremely abusive the entire 10 1/2 years we were married. I never had to worry about telling my kids because they saw it all. My youngest was not quite 3 and he doesn't remember any of the abuse (Thank God!)If my new H and I are wrestling around and playing, he thinks that we're fighting. He told my parents that "Terry starts fights with mom all the time!" I had to make him elaborate on this because my parents thought maybe we were. You see, I hid all of the abuse from my family and didn't tell them about it until after the marriage was over. They thought I might be hiding it from them again. LOL He never asks why his dad doesn't live with us. My older ones will talk about it occassionally. I try to explain it to them as best I can without being too graphic. It's difficult for them to understand why it happened, though. And it is difficult for me to explain it to them because I don't say bad things about their father. I could say a lot but I don't. He's still their father (even though he hasn't seen them since September).

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I think honesty is the best policy, just make it age appropriate. Kids are not stupid and they can feel what is going on around them even if there aren't words to describe it yet.

My kids were the ones who were physically abused, all of us mentally and emotionally, and OD possibly sexually. I spent time trying to get us all in counseling, and that was when the psychologist began feeling their was more than physical abuse against my OD. About that time, ex left and we spent 2.5 years in a very nasty divorce. Basically he was doing everything possible to destroy me, and didn't care if he took the kids down, too. My kids saw all of that, yet he says I alienated them against him.

I can't even look at the monster he is... there are more and more flags that he molested my OD. He has never had accountability for beating on my kids, and that sickens me.

It is my kids choice to not see their father. The YD has seen him as it was court ordered, and it was horrible to have to hold her in my arms while she cried and shook because she didn't want to see him. Thankfully, he hasn't even called her since last November.

We just try to not speak of him anymore, we let the others in the family know if he happens to be in the neighborhood, just so that we are aware. My OD is now in a residential program that is based on intensive therapy and trying to repair the damage done to her by my ex. Me, I'm better, feeling human again, but still have a lot of triggers. YD; youth is amazing, she remembers, but she has moved on and is doing very well as long as there is no contact with ex.

Kids do know what is going on, unless they are raised in another wing of the house by nannies or something. Finding out ex was Narcissistic Personality Disorder and discussing that with my kids helped them understand that there was absolutely nothing that they or I did to make him be the way he was, nor was there anything that we could do to make it right. I would say we all were a little relieved... we'd all been told how everything was our fault for so long we had believed it.

Lori

Thank you to everyone that's responded. I can't believe that this is the first time that it's dawned on me to ask this question. When I was going through it, I never asked anybody about it–just did what felt right, what I thought would be best for my girls.

It's disgusting to me that abusers either don't see or don't care what they are doing to their children. Even if they aren't directly abusing the children, the effects are profound and long-lasting, if not permanent. I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, my xh told the truth when he said that he has made major changes (although I seriously doubt it). I do occasionally ask the kids questions that might clue me in if something is going on. I don't give them the 3rd degree, and I don't care to know the details of everything that goes on over there. I just ask general questions once in a while, like, "Do they treat you nice? Do they treat each other nice?" So far, it sounds like everything is going well.

I've never been in counseling, or to a support group. Immediately after xh and I separated, I wanted to try that, but I lived in a very small town, and xh had finagled his way into taking the car that was supposedly a gift to me (but it was in his name, along with 2 other vehicles) and the judge I had was an incompetent @$$hole (I had an Ex Parte order that gave me possession of the car, but the judge did nothing to enforce the Ex Parte order either then or the other times when xh violated it). By the time I was, back on my feet, I didn't really feel the need to go anymore.