My wife had a restraining order against me,filled with lies, she filed for divorce already. She moved out Feb 15,March 3 hired a lawyer, March 13 filed restraining order, so she isn't wasting any time. She said she was mad at me because i never bought her a single pair of earrings, never bought her clothes, and i never listen to her. In Nov. she started saying i was pushing her. So, i backed way off. A few weeks later she was saying i never notice her, so i again started giving her my attention. All advances in bdrm was refused, denied, rejected,,,I work first shift, she works second, so our time together has been very limited. On week ends she will spend most of her time on the computer, lately she has been learning to make graphics. In past it has been several different web designs. She also started telling me she has friends at work, and she stays on the computer for her escape. She also would say at work she can be herself. I have always called her from my work, so as to say hello to her, thinking about you,,,.
Whatever i would ask for, its like she would make it a point so it did not happen. Even time spent together.
Lately she has been contacting my 14 year old daughter. She will even ask her about how i'am doing. The last two times when i picked up our children, on the way back to my house, i have to go by her office. I noticed she has been outside both times. This past Thursday i picked our children up, i have to meet this so called neutral third party(who is my wifes first sons grandparents) who even has spoken firmly to me, about some of our marriage issues. Anyhow, while i sat at the corner waiting, wife drove by, she waved but i acted as if i had not seen her. Again, when i drove by where she works, once again she was outside her office, talking to these neutral third party grandparents. Yesterday
y daughter was on the phone with wife, wife again asked about how i was doing? Anyhow, i had noticed wife had haircut, so i asked daughter to tell wife, person to person your haircut looks nice, wifes reply, thank you. I also said sorry for not moticing her quick enough, her reply was thats ok. Is all of this still a form of communication.
Wife also asked my daughter how she would feel if and when dad starts dating somebody else, after daughter said she did not want that, wife replied, it would be none of her business anyhow(wifes business) Why would she ask about this?
I want for everything, to save my marriage. This is why i allowed daughter to go with wife for the night. WIfe knows i want to save marriage.
Last week wife sent a piece of paper with third party asking for items from house. Is this a form of communication? I didn't respond to her request, stated i lost it while dropping our crying children off.
Just a few days ago, i filed with courts to protest restraining order. I have no lawyer, so what advice can you give me with this issue. Beside get a lawyer fast. I cannot afford one, wife knows this.
She told me weeks ago she wanted joint custody, in divorce papers, she now wants full custody, and me to pay her attorney fees, plus 480.00 child support, off of 1200.00 monthly income.
I sincerely want to save my, our, whatever its considered anymore, marriage. How can i plan any plans what so ever, of any kind,,,
After wife left, she stopped gy here told my daughter that he is my husband, and i will always love him. Daughter asked why you leaving? Wife replied have you ever heard of the saying if you really love someone, set them free. That was how she ended it. I know there is more to this saying, that they will return. What was she saying with this? Any idea? Should i even try to understand?

Stephan,

Sounds like she's taking you for a ride.

First, she is having an affair. All the signs are there.

Second, the reason she asked daughter what she would think if daddy dated and then said none of your business if he does, is because she was getting an idea how daughter would feel about her dating and second she was setting the tone for "none of your business" if either daddy or I dated. She was too chicken to ask "What if I date?"

Third, yes she is playing games. I would hope if I were in your situation I wouldn't play them with her.

It sounds like your new to MB so I don't want to tell you to go directly to plan B without doing plan A, but my gut instincts tell me you should. I also think unless this is effecting your communications with the children, I would leave restraining order alone.

BTW, the reason she may have a restraining order on you is so you don't find out about her little affair. It's harder to find out if you can't come around her.

I would suggest you read some of the articles on MB, not just these forums. Also, pick up some books on saving your marriage. Right now, just read and educate yourself on what a healthy relationship is. Work on yourself as well.

Take care and good luck.

ANNA

Borrow some $$$ and get a lawyer and private eye. Just for one night.

I suspect she's seeing someone she met on internet btw. She is a curious one. Sounds hell bent on having her way. Learn about affairs. She is probably having one. And understand it. You won't accept her fog, she is giving excuses, earrings, no compliments, etc. That is what my stbxh did at the beginning of his affair. He complained about house cleaning, my not beinghis friend, etc. All very "fixable" issues. And as any decent counselor would see through. They are lame excuses to make them feel good about their negative choices. And she is going full throttle.

Using a "help me he could be unstable" card about the restraining order. I think she is the one with the problem. If you don't make alot of $$$, how COULD SHE HIRE AN ATTORNEY? Think. Money could be given from OM.

Don't fall for the spin and blame game. That is classic. My x did this. Tried to convince people I was nuts. Tried really hard to shift the blame off of his own guilt and shame.

Be bigger and don't fall for it. Do whatever it takes to secure attorney and pi. Use pi only one night. That is all it took for me to have my answer btw. You have to figure out when she is gone, when she would go out, etc. I nailed him. At a casino spending night with another woman and they were walking out hand in hand.

Sick.

But this is the reality of our world right now. Very demented people out there walking around looking for ways to make themselves happy with no regard for children, families. Very sad. Stand tall and get strong. But get informed so you know what you are up against. Showing her adultery would definitely contradict her restraining order. Read about plan A and B and issues. However, don't be a fool and be manipulated right now. I think almost go to plan b as suggested here. Yours is too fast a situation, too negative too quick. Baffling.

But there is light. Do the two things no matter what it takes. And if she is the one having an affair, it will certainly change custody issues, spousal,child support (do you wwant the kids with you?) and the whole take on her wanting this divorce. Be smart. Be smarter than I was at your stage. It took me six months to get there. You need to be there tomorrow ok?

Chin up. YOur kids will know the truth. She is also quizzing kids about dating. You are seeing it as she is wondering and maybe having second thoughts about leaving. Wrongo. I assumed that kind of stuff too. It is their fogg. Read about the fog. She is probing for herself. For her needs. And this third party sound like enablers. Hmmmm. Grandparents of the first child? Has she done this before? Sounds very strange that grandparents would side with someone they are no longer related to. Learn about enablement and do not do it with your w.

She's advancing full throttle. Kinda like the Iraquis right now. They are defending Baghdad and sending out these stupid statements and having press conferences about how they are "winning the war" all the while we are nailing them at every turn. They are lying to switch perception. LYING TO SWITCH PERCEPTIONS.

I learned that from just watching the news this morning btw.

Don't let her get away with it. And somehow, focus on you and your children. Not her. She's turned the world upside down and expects everyone to stand on their heads with her.

My 14 year old daughte just came home from spending the night with my W. W was telling my daughter that she has no boyfriend, that she does not like (the man that i have suspected) because he is a drunk, she does not want anything to do with him verbally. She said she only went over there a few times to watch his dog. He also called her at two in the morning drunk, talking about his exgirlfriend stalking him. This guy was at the bowling alley two timed that my w decided to take some of the family bowling. Both times whren i was at work. She really thinks she is Mrs. Smooth.
She also told my daughter that she would give me full custody if thats what i want, and she will drop the RO if i do not contact her, or send her any email. I reallt do not know what to believe or think with this, she has lied so damn much, with just about everything.
My W's forst daughter can't talk to me because i asked her about a month ago if she had met her moms new boyfriend. Well what my w is talking about to my daughter, i don't really think is that much different.
The none of your business thing was actually my wife telling my daughter that it would be none of (wifes) business.
When she left her, i found out that all of the bills were quite behind. %00.00 gas, 500.00 phone,,, Also where she is staying, i'm sure she does not have to pay much, so she can get her lawyer. She makes more money then myself. Also with income tax, i gave her 1500.00 and with my share i had to pay the bills. She one day said if we are going to be husband and wife, right now i don't trust you with money, and if i can't trust you with money, what can i trust you with? Well my reply was there are more important things to be trusting in and with. After all i still had our two children wioth me at this time.
She did convince her friends and coworkers that i was something, i think she told them i was abusive. She also convinced them that i sexually violated her. One of her friends, actually she is one of mine as well, called me asking about this sex violation. After that, i have not heard anynore about it.
Yes i want the children here with me. And what do you mean by and the whole take on her wanting the divorce? I told her today that i do not want to save the marriage if thats what you mean. Actually i had my daughter tell W this. I cant communicate with her.
AS for protesting the RO, i'am going to attack it due to her lies, is thia the right thing to do. Or should i go about it because of her affair thing? I still have a few days left tp protest it.
Be there is light, do these two things. Are you meaning Plan A and B? If so, how can i do these with a RO against me?
She has told me that i'am selfish. I never would have done any of this. MEVER!!! I always thought our problems were just simple misunderstandinds, his needs and her needs not being met. Now, i'm not so sure. I do know that somehow i want to save the marriage. She also told my daughter that she will not ever come back, then she said she did not want to talk about it.

Ah ha. Sure nuff the town bowling alley drunk is the guy. What a winner..lol...

I suggest first to do two things: first, contact a lawyer and secure him. Second get the pi and determine if affair is going on but I get that it is probably 100%.

And next, post your question about a and b on Plan A and Plan B for guidance. Seek redhat and orchid. They were great helpers with me. Both had different outcomes but are survivors nevertheless.

Don't communicate with wife until you have clear directives in your mind. Yes, she is baffling. My stbxh and I, our problems were very mild. Probably same ones every couple in America has that's been married longer than three years. Nothing a counselor couldn't fix. But remember, SHE DOESN'T WANT TO FIX IT RIGHT NOW. She's off wandering in left field. In lala land looking for a good time. She is manipulated not by her brain right now. We here think it is as though they've been abducted by aliens and had their brains scrambled. They do not do things that are normal or seemingly good whatsoever. It is all about them for a time, or maybe forever. You don't know until it happens. Either way it is good to have a plan in place. I

I am in plan B, which may not be right totally for you yet as your situation is so new. It is not healthy anymore for me to have contact with my stbx because he is a serial liar and cheater even when it has come to simple child support/alimony issues. His brain is scrambled beyond normal alien brain scrambles.

Don't use kids as go betweens. It is ugly and bad enough to have them involved in this period. They aren't dumb. Sooner or later they will understand she is having an affair. And if she offers the kids, take them. Then she can pay child support. They will lie. WS's do that. First premise is to lie and lie often. Sometimes to get our goats, they mix in a tiny bit of truth with the lies to attempt to make us wildly confused. But remember, we know what's up. She thinks she's pulling the wool over your eyes. Let her think so. I call it fogging them back. Orchid kinda taught it to me. Only successful communication I've had with my stbx in a year was when I started doing "reverse fog talk". He responded quite well...Wanted and attempted to try to come over and spend night (refused) and told me that "we've never had such a good conversation in years". Goes something like this...W: Well I personally cannot trust you and think that our differences are too great. You didn't compliment me enough. You weren't there for me and we are just not good enough friends anymore. You: Sure. I understand it. You haven't worked at being my friend also. Wife: And the kids can be with you if you want to. You: Sure. That's a great idea. I am all for it. Wife: And the guy that our daughter talks about, he's just a friend. Nothing more. You: Sure. But if you believe for a moment that I don't think you're messing around then you are mistaken. I'm not going to validate these decisions you're making. These are your choices and not mine. But heck, it's time I made some choices and realized this negative situation is what it is. That's just it. And besides. I am working on me. Go and do the affair thing. Sure. I know it must make you sooo happy. But now it is time for me to be happy. You be happy and I will be happy. gosh I wish I could talk more with you. I've really missed it but I've got to go to the gym (or fill it in with some activity that is a bit out of character for you or something new she doesn't know about)to my book club, wine tasting class, etc. Glad to hear you're having fun with Mr. Alley but I've got things to do. Bye"

She will be utterly confused. Confuse the confuser. They are usually speechless. You have to verify what they are saying without validating their choices. Say sure you understand why they are doing what they are doing. (This truly baffles them) but that you just won't give them permission or validate the choices. No matter what. And then you let them know you are wanting to be happy too and that you are improving you (bit of plan a principle here) and then the wheels in their foggy minds begin to turn. Is he seeing someone from the book club? Is he lifting free weights with some hot girl at the gym? Since when did he want to become a wine taster? Hmmmm. This guy is growing sick of this. I've pushed his buttons too long...

It does work but it is not a fix whatsoever. Just buys a bit of time and maybe makes them think. And even after a divorce you can do the reverse fog trick. I will probably do it in a few months after the dust settles and he thinks I will be off dating alot of guys. I may be who knows?

I just think first order of business is protect you, the kids and learn the truth. Need Lawyer and PI. Need advice on A and B. Need to leave her alone completely until RO is lifted or successfully dropped after your protest and you need to not use kids as go betweens. That is the first part of your plan. When you have a plan, you stay sane. You have something to do and a clear cut way to get it done. You know that now.

When my daughter was telling me what w said about the OP, D actually was mad at me because i said i knew it. D asked wht, my reply was i knew she was involved with somebody. D was mad at me for even thinking this, so i said to her its ok to love her, because i still can say i love her as well.
Can i ask you, do you want your stbx back? At times i think you do, but times i'm not sure. Just curious, i hope i didn't upset you for asking or saying anything.
Do you think W is still lieing? I know from everything else i do not trust her, still. I really do not know what to think. I suppose i'm still more fogged than i thought.
W said to D that she will never come back. From what i have shared, do you personally think there is a chance? I know most of the day today i kept telling myself i do not want her back. I still can't get past the letter thing i found and read of hers while i was packing. Its like i never even knew her to begin with, so in some ways my marriage was based on lies. I do know 6 years ago i choose to love her, and for those six years, yes i had my moments, but for the most part, i think and feel i done a damn good job. I do know that i'am not selfish! For awhile i was even telling her i was not a monster, yet she was convinced i was. When i think back of all of the kind loving things i have done for her, and for her person, and for her personally,,,
Confusing the confuser, now this i think is going to take some practice and time. I have always prided myself for being so open and honest. But, i will start being the confuser just as soon as i can.
WHat do you know about this situation: (example) Months ago i brought her some new bedding, quilt, sheets blankets and such. SHe was telling me why i should not have bought them,,, after awhile i simpoly said its ok, i'll just take them back, SHe said do you really want me to have them? I said yes, so she accepted them. I went thru the same thing with outfits, earrings, and other areas. Do you understand what i'm meaning? When she would not accept, so i would like give up or in, she would then accept the offer or item or act, or whatever.
It sounds like your STBXH and my WW would maybe make a good couple. It sounds like they have a few things in common, a good start right? (lol)
I realized days after Ro was issued, and i no longer was able to talk to her, actually i think listen applies here, anyhow, i realized that i started back to the up swing of things. I was on such a HUGE, and i do mean HUGE, roller coaster. I actually did not know aht was up, or what was down. And nothing in between. My god, was i ever a mess!!! Looking back, its actually somewhat ambarrassing. I'm still a mess, just not as bad. I for some reason still have tears run down my cheeks on a daily basis, compared to three four maybe five times a day. ALso i still struggle to gat past four hours of sleep. Its been suggested i ask for anti depressant. First, i never been one to take or even offer pills. Second, i was concerned what a judge or lawyer would think. Meaning i did not want to chance anything wher my, our children are concerned. Do you understand?
As for my day today, it was actually a very good day. So far the best day, since maybe a day back in November. This is when it all started. When she refused me entry when we were intimate, and she also started her head games. ALot of what you said, that STBX said to you, i heard as well, and then some,,,,
Have a wonderful day,,,

Stephen
Read my posts starting on January 24th, under names robert or robertc and you will see how much we have in common, r/o has really cut on time with kids, which is what matters most, also had to change my name on post a couple of times

Stephan,

I will post here to reply to you. This is my 2¢. When comes to legal issue you should leave behind emotion behind. About money, custody & RO got nothing to do with saving your M !. Protect yourself !. Understand the state law on Dv/Separation, RO & custody. You better get legal advice on this. This RO is temporary and you have to appear to the court ... fight this one. How ? shut your mouth up, anything you say would and could be use against you. just listen to her reasoning and her excuse and what is on the RO document. Find supporting document, time and witness to help you out.

Don't use your D as ping pong ball <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ; take the info but don't enganged or replied. Until you see the document or the word (that come out from her own mouth) match her actions, you have to be under assumption what is written.

About $, WW could bark and demand and so on but there is state law ... and in CA is as easy as pluggin the numbers and we have 3 diff. program but the result are not far appart. BTW: where do you live ?.

Listen, I know you are confused right now. Focus on one thing right now, on you. Don't think and listen to W's talk, only with a few posts I could see she is unstable one. Right now, you need to protect your legal right and disregard about saving your M. You have no control over this M but you have control to not to loose your shirt. Focus on how you could fight this RO.

Don't engage what W fed others with her blunt lies, let her. I was a victim myself but I was prevailed. Just gather information and keep hard proof ... keep your mouth shut and don't engaged. You will see who are your "true" freinds. When ask, don't bad mouth your W ... she is still your W !, just tell them the fact and show them the prove. That was when I take a motto and chanted to myself ... "I know who I am, my worth and I don't let anyone tell me otherwise."

Keep this in mind ... by fighting this RO and legal battle doesn't mean that you gave up on M. You have to protect yourself before you could save anybody otherwise you will lose everything. Keep in mind ... NO LB at all time, not a doormat but, no angry burst, no disrepect judgement, no unreasonable demand ... keep your cool.

I don't know the all detail but I try to take a wild guess and let you verify it. Right now, She doesn't know what she wants !. You have to take her head on and let her show her card on the table !. On the contrary what you beleive, I don't think your W think this one through !. She just made it up as she go. Just curious, does she always earn more than you or just happen lately ?.

If you have time post on your plan A actions, what have you done to show changes on what you had contibuted to this mess ... maybe none at all or maybe very minor but I would like you to review it.

Hang in there big boy -rh-

AS fpr daughter, My W asked if she could stay the night. I allowed only because i read somewhere about agreeing with everything she asked or remanded. I also think maybe a part of me was seeing this as her reaching out, I'm sure i was seeing this as something it wasn't. I realize i make a decision, then later its like why did i do this. This fogged mind has gotten the best of me on ways. Its almost l;ike i have a clear head, so i act on something from her or towards her,,W wanted our 5 year olds glasses so she could get them adjusted, i asked for 14 D to meet me at corner, W said either that or drop them off in mailbox. I agreed, on the drive there, time to think, i thought maybe she was setting me up. Was scared to, so i had my 11 year old son walk them the reat of the way.
I'm from Michigan.
Three years ago we found out 5 year old daughter has a form of brain cancer. I changed jobs, raising 6 kids, needed insurance. Prior i have been self employed. W has made more than me since.
Why and how do i continue to like trust and listen to her? She has set me up time after time. And everything we/she has agreed on, when the time came right down to it, she has/had excuses as to why she didn't. Yet, the next time there is an oppurtunity, i allow yet one more time? When D went to stay the night with W, i had two notebooks of writing, sort of to wife, yet sort of writing therapy as well. D wanted W to read them. I stated RO purposes can't, im sure it falls under communication. D said dad it will be alright,,, D brought them with her, when she returned, she didn't have them. D asked W for them, W replied she wanted to read them, besides they were addressed to her. D asked was she going to get dad in trouble with them. My W has has nothing but lie after lie after lie. W will not let her 10 year old D talk to me, a month ago i asked her if she met mom's new boyfriend. That was it. When i asked her, i realized how that sounded, how it was wrong, right away spoke about something else. My W has had more depth conversation with my D, and she justifies it. Which id ok. One usually can't see their own mistake or wrong, until you set back, and look at the situation. Again, when i act on something, sit back and look at it, its like how and why? What was i thinking!
Yes, when D went to stay the night, i was thinking maybe W was reaching out in some way, so i was thinking saving M. Pretty crazy huh? I can see that now, after,,,
My family kept saying i was crazy if i allowed D to go. WW and D has had a good relationship, in ways i suppose over the past. I JUST DON'T KNOW!!

Wife also told my D that she would drop the RO if i stop emailing her. While i was in D email from Hotmail, i replied to som e thing or somebody. I close dout ot hotmail, went into my outlook express seen that some how i sent WW email. WW also said that she would let me have full custody, she would be week end mom. Should i trust her? Is she up to some more games, head games? Also, in court can't there bo something done about all of her lies, how she sends messages thru my 14D to me. And how she will tell me one thing, yet claim as if she never heard the words, let alone say any of them. Or is this to part of her game plan? Convince the judge that i've totally lost my mind, or better yet, she only would say these things to me and to who ever else, because she was so scared of me.
I do not, and i cannot trust her. In fact i think i will refuse to even allow myself to think about trusting her.
Is it also normal for me to become angry? Angry with her? Even like angry today, and then like a week later angry on another day?
I don't know what to think,,,,,,,

Stephan,

I answer your post from plan A/B here. You did the right thing to share your feeling and being open ... I could assume one of your top EN is honesty ... her definitly is not. She took it differently. She takes it like you have not over with your ex(es) and as a mental torture to her. You take all what she told you are what she want and worst what she is agreed to !. Listen, your W has personal problems. One of them, she is not even honest with herself and what she want. My ex is the same. If you check my profile, I was thinking that all sacrifice that I made was for us ... I was busting my rear behind while she was bailing out. I have learned that I have to trust my insticnt and stand by it. This is my 2¢ worth of oppinion. You want a soulmate and all she wants is a husband !. You want to brace the life together and she wants you to be traditional husband, make her happy and be the captain of the house ... Any [censored] hit the f@n, it is your fault !. IMHO your M goes down the hill 3 years ago, after your D diagnosed w/ cancer, look back and do relationship autopsy. It is true that you find who is your freinds when the time get tough ... including who is your W !.

The reality is when thing well according to her, she is the sweetest wife ... when thing went wrong, it is all your fault and she starts the road map to bail out. IMHO, you can't help this kind of woman and save your M. She has to realize what she wants and she has to work on R to get it. You can't plan A or B ... all you could do is NO LB & do tough love.

Listen, don't take her action personally !. I still do not beleive she plans all of this. She just take it one day at a time and what is good for her selfishness. For now, focus on protecting your self and your kids !.

-rh-

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Stephan:
<strong>Is it also normal for me to become angry? Angry with her? Even like angry today, and then like a week later angry on another day?
I don't know what to think,,,,,,,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the emotional roller coaster out of 5 stages of greive !. You are up and down ... This is not the time to think (wondering), but focus on one thing, protecting yourself and your kids.

-rh-