Let's just say you have a job, and let's just say your boss can be very verbally abusive at times, not always and most of the time he compliments you, but at times about once a week, and usually when other people are around he gets verbally abusive. Let's say he knows how to use the things that embarrass you and he'll do it in down-right belittling and degrading way.

Let's say you have a boss that cusses at you and even though you haven't taken much time off work and have been there for over year when you miss, you can miss, but he gives you a hard time and he will scream at you over the phone and say, "JUST TAKE THE F'ING DAY OFF" and slam the phone down..."

And you know he is an Equal Opportunity Jerk, so it's everyone not just you he acts this way towards.

Okay, then he on the opposite side, he is only there half a day and he doesn't micro-manage you in your job, and he also compensates you because he knows he can't seem to control this, and he knows no one else can put up with him so he gives you money...about $7,000 more a year than what your job would normally ever pay...

And you know, no matter what, you can not change your boss' attitude. There is nothing you can do or say, you either put up with or you leave...

Then you decide to leave and you give your notice. You get another job making pretty close but not as much, and when you give your two weeks he offers you $5200 more a year to stay...

If you are a single parent and you know your family could really use this money....Would you do it?

Can you be bribed at work?

Would you think a person would be crazy not to do it? Would you think a person would be crazy to do it?

ANNA

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

well, suppose it is a lot like a marriage or any compromising type of situation. If it had you so tied up that you wanted to quit, will $5200/year more actually make that more bearable?

Think of how many people have stayed in a job they hated because it paid the bills, there's probably more that do that than actually do something they love. I think it comes down to what do you think you should do? It is only a choice that you can make.

I know, not much help. I have a contract sitting out there that would be a gem to get, but it is dealing with the governement and I am not sure I really want those hassles. Will I take it?; you bet, need to after the divorce, but once I am fiscally sound, I hope I can be more selective in what clients I take on.

Whatever you choose, you know you have put some serious thought into it.

Lori

If you quit the job and do not land in another one immediately, the odds that you will receive unemployment insurance benefits are slim. If you think you might need to file a claim and you are the moving party in the separation, the burden of proof will be on you. In my state, you would need to have dates and incidents well notated and to provide that information to the claims office if you want to have a hope of receiving benefits.

money talks and bullsh*t walks!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

sorry, Anna <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...i think that you should stay long enough until you can save enough to move to another job.

hope you are well,
your IM pal,
Andy

Bangara,

Your post made a lot of sense to me.

It's hard because I keep thinking how I could save the extra money for my two sons college.

I always said, "When I see it getting to me and it takes away from my self esteem, I'll leave." That is starting to happen. Before I could always brush it off...lately, I just can't seem to.

One of the other owners of the company asked me today to stay as well and they'll give me more money. He said, "No one can put up with other boss and he's really concerned about that."

I'm one of only two people who have quit and quit correctly, I have heard stories of my boss and an employee almost fist fighting, of a woman who threw an object at my boss, of my boss throwing stuff off a woman's desk and screaming, etc.....

Of course, my two weeks are not up yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yet, I know too, if I stay too much longer, I may be that woman that throws something at him as I am walking out the door. I can't imagine doing that, but I walked out and slammed a door about a month ago and that surprised me alot.

I also noticed I'm yelling at the kids more often. I am sad about that.

Even though my boss is a jerk at times, I care a lot about him and his company.

I think my main concern is this. Before I came there the books of the company became a mess because there were so many bookkeepers that came and left. The books now are in pretty decent order. The other boss knows this and so does my boss, there is a huge concern with everyone that we won't be able to find someone who will stay and put up with my boss long enough to keep the books in order.

It is so hard on a company if they change bookkeepers every three months.

It's not just the yelling and belittling, it's also my boss has a problem with me taking any time off as well...

He knows this and he pretty much says he won't bend on that.

We don't have a set vacation time, sick time etc. I have come in on weekends in the beginning of working there, I came in and worked weekends after we had a major fire...and I worked when I was sick as a dog because my boss said "I need you here", but a couple of weeks ago I took off because my 11 year old was sick and throwing up. He was getting dehydrated so I took him to the doctor, I called my boss and he says, "Well, try to come in this afternoon if you can..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Before I started looking for another job, I told him other companies offer sick time & vacation time. He said, "Then go work for them."

The new company I am going to work for has offered me 6 days every 6 months vacation with a promise of no hassle when I take them.

Cinderella,

I hear ya on unemployment, I made sure I had a job lined up before I quit this one. I can't imagine my boss turning down my unemployment, but I do have witnesses that will back me on things if I need them to.

Andy,

Thanks for the laugh. I am really struggling with this one but I think my gut is telling me to go with the new job. I think it's mainly because I keep thinking how I wouldn't put up with this if it were a husband even if financially it would hurt me, so why put up with it at work?

Ohhh here's a couple of pieces of advice for everyone who may need to look for a job...these are little things I am seeing as I am trying to find my replacement.

1. If you have a chat user email such as Mandy69, don't use that for your email address when applying for a job. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

2. If you are detail oriented, don't spell it detail orented. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One last note. My bosses care about me a great deal. I feel bad even talking about them on line. I am concerned some how they'll read it, the last thing I want is to hurt my boss.

ANNA

Anna,

As the sole responsible parent for my kids, I have an obligation to provide for them the most that I can financially. You have a duty too. I do not believe it would be wise to end one job before you have a confirmation/acceptance of another job--to make sure that you can support your kids.

HOWEVER (and this is a big however), there is compensation and there is compensation. For me, I have made a decision to not work at a place unless I absolutely love it there. I will make the money I need to make--that's the duty part--but part of the compensation package for me is working with people who are not only my co-workers but who also care about me and I about them. Also, I would "trade" cash money for days off and holidays any day. As a single parent, you need a little flexible time, and earning time off is one way to keep the steady paycheck while also attending to something regarding the kids (doctor appointments, Conferences, etc.).

Soooo...if you have an offer at company #2 making the same amount as company #1, and then company #1 raised the offer by $5K+, just consider that there are compensations OTHER than money that are valuable: time, vacations, and a more friendly/less abusive work environment are three big ones that spring to mind! Do a pros and cons list, and follow your instincts. You already KNOW the answer and what you want it to be--so follow it already!

CJ

Do you work for my Boss?
I have tried to listen to tapes to help me deal with people and the D.
One is "How to deal with Difficult People" and also "Anger at Work". If you really like the place, and want to stay, you can make it work.
Get them to write a sick pay policy and a vacation policy.
It sounds like your boss triangulates, or projects his anger or bad feelings onto anyone who is near. If he can blame his problems on someone else, then they are not his to keep. I'm guessing he also has stomach problems (indigestion etc.), the signs of stress.
I lived with this projection in my M, and I can't stand to see it now. Luckily, someone was put between this boss and I, because I've lost all respect for him.

Good Luck in your decision.

IMO you should stay if the financial rewards are substantially greater than anywhere else, and the only issue is the boss. It sounds like you have the confidence of the other owners, and are safe.

1. This gives you an excellent opportunity to practice skills dealing with someone who behaves this way...this is NOT a marriage, you are compensated for the working conditions, and you go home everyday.

2. Being aggressive at home is YOUR problem, not caused by work. It happens because you do not have the requisite skills to deal with your work enviroment, so this is an excellent opportunity to also work on developing compatmentalization skills.

Look at it this way anna, suppose someone offered you a job earning a substantial amount of money....and the job description was to deal with someone like this...would you take it?

Your job is not the accounting stuff, your job is managing a particular ASSet of the business, your boss. It is all a matter of perspective anna, this is a whole lot better job than say....... um, being a bomb disarmament technician, or um..... a corrections officer in a maximum security prison,..... or um...... __________ (fill in the blank with a whole bunch of boring, dangerous, disgusting types of work).

In a free market capitalistic system everyones needs are met. Decide what money, and conditions you need to make this job worthwhile, and negotiate for them...if they are met, keep the job and smile all the way to the bank....hug your kids when you get home (knowing you are provide better), and pat yourself on the back as you learn how to manage a difficult person (hey maybe you can get a job as a hostage negotiator later), the skills will be invaluable, and heck you are getting PAID for self-improvement, what a deal.

btw, if the boss is a dangerous psychopath, who may try to damage your career, etc. that is one thing, but if he is basically honest and fair, just a huge anger problem, then often being firm and setting boundaries with such people earns their respect....Precisely because you are NOT married, and don't need/have a close personal relationship. So if you work with the man, letting him vent and act like a jerk (cause it really doesn't mean anything anyways)...BUT hold firm boundaries re your work etc....well, I dunno could evolve into something interesting....the key is the money, if the business has plenty, and is willing to compensate you extra for your sufferance, a fair trade IMO. If you become a punching bag, then that is not ok, and hopefully your other bosses would intervene, also I think there are limits which would open them to lawsuits. If he is the kind of guy who is just stressed and acting out some, and if not confronted back gets over it, and acts well much of the time....heck, no big deal...he may even come to really appreciate that you accept him, and aren't trying to change/pressure him...the key is not coming back in his face over your hurt feelings, just a job, you don't need a relationship...just consider it human bomb disarmament, try not to slip and get blown up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

Anna,

You know my opinion, no amount of money is worth being abused..by anyone!! Even an employer..

I realize your not married to this man and you don't have to 'live' with him..but you do have to be around him on a daily basis..because of work..

So look at it this way...

If you were a sahm and your spouse talked to you this way...your bills are paid, you have a home to live in..you have food on the table..would you stay?

What is your self-worth to you? Do you feel you should sell your soul in order to make more money?

Is there anyway they would allow you to occassionally work from home as opposed to in the office? maybe have a network set up so you can do that??

I know you are VERY grateful for all they have done for you over the past year...but you DON'T OWE THEM ANYTHING but the two weeks notice..

And if they keep having people quit because of this one boss...maybe THEY should look at that..
and consider asking him to take anger management classes..

No amount TR? $500 a week? $1000 a week? $5000 a week? $100,000 a week? What is your price? Sure it is worth it, when you are trying to survive. If you are independently wealthy then different criteria come into play, this is life TR, not a philosophic game, this is a bite off your nose to spite your face scenario.

The issue is very simple, capacity. If anna cannot function without injury, (would she keep the job for $1,000,000 dollars if she had to amputate her leg?....how about her little toe?). The point being anna has to assess whether the working conditons are simply annoying, and she can cope (for the right amount of money), or whether she is being permanently injured, and thereby must consider differently. In the world of human interaction, a mouthy boss is of little consequence. The key point being she is not stuck, she can quit, so if she stays by choice (and the money is the choice) she is simply doing what millions of us do, making a value judgement between working conditions and pay reward...nothing more complicated than that.

btw, I agree she owes them nothing, but I didn't see that as an issue raised. I do not agree with your SAHM analogy, is irrelevant, there is nothing remotely comparable between marital abuse (and the expectations of a safe, healthy, nurturing intimate relationship), vs a 40hr week work enviroment with a mouthy boss...It would be different I suppose if he had power over her, she could not leave, but that is not the case...they are willing to pay more, and that offsets the work enviroment, becomes a choice.

But ya know, even in a SAHM enviroment many women stay for economic/child reasons and accept a less than nurturing spouse....the boards here are heavily populated with women making exactly that choice.

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: LurkingAbout ]</small>

I had a similar situation about 10 years ago, but my emotional rants were tossed at me constantly. I told my boss I quit and he offered me a healthy raise but no amount of money can compensate for my mental well-being or the adverse effects that job was having on my children.

Unfortunately, when I left I had no where to go. I immediately found employment well below what I was used too and worked two full-time jobs for a short period while I was searching for the money I was cabable of making.

Now I'm making double what I was when I left that 1st job. Ironically, that boss is still one of my best friends. He's a super friend but a crappy employer.........

Anna - I stayed at home, with the kids, and worked for a boss like that. My husband. He was not willing to give me a paycheck since I was injured on a real job, and then became disabled and stayed home. My husband, knows that I was a great asset to the business that we owe. But he would not pay me an official paycheck. As for the grouchy boss. I had one, he was nice at times, but basically I could tell if I was going to get yelled at over a answer not answered correctly, the phone not being answered correctly. There were many issues working for your husband. We had some good times, but as a boss, he was not the best. I think I was more fair, and wanted to get this business on the computer. Wnated to get things filed promptly, and getting things on the computer would of been easier in the long run.

Now if I was paid $5200 to stay on, I think I would of done it. Cause I was getting nothing but the normal, a roof over my head, stay at home, and etc. But to have money that I could claim as mine, for social security reasons, nothing.

If the money would help, what is wrong with staying for 1 year. The money would be great, and this would give you an opportunity to look around, while you are working, getting vacation time, getting insurnace, and still having a weekly check coming in and still beable to keep your vision open for another job.

I would stay, and quote to your boss, I will give it another year. The $5200 increase needs to start tomorrow. I am wanting to grow in my position, and if the posiition becomes stagnant, or decrease in pay, I will find something else. Be upfront with the guy, let him know you are staying with boundaries, and that if the boundaries are broken, then youwill leave. I would in the beginning, start looking, and make every possible avenue something to look into.

It stinks when you have to work your butt off just to make ends meet isn't it. I know, I will have to be working and going to school full time, this fall. Going to be hard after staying at home all these years, and doing the business here. But I am ready for a change, and ready to move on. Since husband and I will be divorced shortly.

He will make great money, always made great money, much more than what he says. And I will live on $15,000 a year. Stinks after 25 years of marriage, but I will do it with the love of God.

Pray about this $5200. Pray and see what God wants for you to do. I would keep all avenues open right now, with the economy and war. Just my opinion.

LurkingAbout:

[QB]No amount TR? $500 a week? $1000 a week? $5000 a week? $100,000 a week? What is your price? Sure it is worth it, when you are trying to survive. If you are independently wealthy then different criteria come into play, this is life TR, not a philosophic game, this is a bite off your nose to spite your face scenario.

That's right--For me..NO amount of money would be worth it..I can and do survive on less than that..

And I know that Anna has too and can again..

Granted she may not be able to "BUY" all the "things" people think they 'need'--but, she could she make it on less money..and HAVE PEACE OF MIND!! She could work out a budget that would allow her to save for her kids college if she feels compelled to do so..and also put money aside in a savings account if she wants to..

Thanks for everyones help, and everything everyone said did help. It gave me a lot to think about.

I've decided not to take the offer of extra money. Today I was offered extra money again plus other benefits, but like TR said, "Nothing is worth it."

It comes down to this. I always said if it doesn't get to me and doesn't affect me mentally then I will stay, but if he starts affecting me in any negative way then I will leave.

Lurking,

I understanding what you are saying, the thing is I am starting to take it personally, I have to be happy where I work, and it's been a tough few months. It's starting to affect my work and my home environment; it's time to go.

I also do not have any desire to work on communicating with people who make me feel this way on a daily basis. It's just not worth it.

One interview today my boss said to the interviewer, "Your biggest problem will be putting up with me." She said, "I am good with problem people and I can whip you into shape." I said, "No you can't, and if you don't realize that immediately you will fail here. He has been through several wives, girlfriends, children, employees and friends and he is who he is, he will not change, you are not going to create some miracle that no one else, including his family has been able to do, so if you can put changing him out of your mind, accept who he is, don't take it personally and know he is an Equal Opportunity Jerk, and just know he will always be this way, then and only then you will be able to make it here."

Amazing that I can say that right in front of him and he accepts it but he loses it on the silliest of things and at the most unexpected moments...

Anyway, I do have to say I am flattered by their willingness to go to great lengths to keep me, but by the same token I am ready for the next two weeks to be over with because of the stress I feel about "what there next offer might be" as well as just feeling like I am letting alot of people down by leaving.

I am also sad because I am very, very close to a few of the employees and very close even to this boss. We are like a family. A disfunctional family, but a family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sometimes I guess you just need to break away from your family though and go out on your own.

LH,

I think my boss and I are going to make good friends too. I do have to say though, I hate watching the way he treats some people, he's so mean to them but at the same time, I know he has a huge heart and I he tries so hard, I think he needs on some sort of meds. I am glad I didn't let it go so far to where we ended up hating each other.

I have so many emotions about leaving, and one is feeling sorry for my boss because I think he's so hurt by me leaving because we are close, and he's hurt by thinking about his own actions as well. When discussing my leave today, one of the employees said, "Why can't you just be normal?" I saw the hurt in him when she said it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

On the other side I'm excited about my new adventure with this new company, but a little concerned they won't like me as well as my old job did. I was kind of lucky there, before me they had bookkeepers that messed the books up so bad, when I fixed them it made me look 10 times better than I really was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, laterz,

ANNA

That's what's so great about the land of opportunity anna, we do have choices. Everyone has different tolerance levels, coping skills, emotional abilities...the point is you decided the money isn't worth it, but you gave it a thorough airing so you could be as sure as possible...so...I am curious though, re your post title what would be your price? Nothing, or would you try for an attitude adjustment (yours) say if the offered ya um....$2000 a week? They just couldn't "offer" enough....or was it really an issue of "injury" for you and money irrelevant?

Good observation of being like a "dysfunctional" family, yet surprisingly people feel they must stay in dysfunctional families often for no "pay"...humans are such interesting creatures. So you will make good "ex's" just couldn't be married.....often the case methinks.

Lurking,

I tried to write but I'm too tired. Very, very interesting question though...

Faith4me,

I'm very proud of the progress you are making and all the ways you are helping others on MB.

Faithful,

I miss you IM, thanks for the advice, as always great advice.

NEwly,

There's two of them!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Night all,

ANNA

Anna - remember that if you put God in the lead of your path, it will all work out okay.

Personally, if things were so unbearable that I couldn't stand another day, I would leave too. But if it is the constant complain, complain, then I would evaluate if I could stay 1 year. A try to bear it all. You have chosen the path to leave. This is probably for the better, and God has directed you to do this.

This will mean starting a new life with a new company, but like you said, it was good to leave before you started hating the boss. Good theory behind that. Are you going to beable to make it on less income, and how do your kids feel about the switch of jobs. I would always ask my kids for their info. Just to keep them informed on what I am doing, and how I am progressing. Plus these younger minds have some great advice.

Good Luck, with your new path, and I will pray for you tonight, as you are sound asleep on your pillow. Goodnight. Can't sleep, right eye is hurting.

Everyone needs a few extra bucks, i would have to think hard about leaving after being offered a raise, there are laws about being abused by an employer, I would get my self a voice activated tape recorder and document his attitude toward me, and i would either wait untill i got enough ammo and consult a lawyer about suing him, OR quit when I've had enough and use my recordings to get state unemployment bennies, AND sue him too...his big mouth MAY pay for many years of college.....

41,

I appreciate your advice and understand where you are coming from, but...

I could never ever sue him, he may be a jerk, but I care about him and the people who work there. There's too many employees depending on his company succeeding...

I am concerned some day someone will sue him, I think they have been incredibly lucky so far.

Lurking,

My assistant told me the other day that she won't last much longer with his attitude towards her because it's not worth putting up with for a measley $8.00 an hour, but then she added if she had my salary she would stay and laugh all the way to the bank...so I guess it does help if you have more money.

Sooo thinking about it, I do have a price...because I use to put up with him...but it's didn't have as much to do with the money as it is family time. Actually it was a combo, money and family time combined...When I worked 5 minutes away from my house before our company moved and I was close enough in the summer to come home and see the kids...when I was close enough to be there in 5 minutes if one got hurt after school, to visit my kids at lunch time, to make it to all their practices and ball games, to be home by 5:05 in the evening...then I ignored his little comments because I always kept those plus' in mind...

The thing is, he offered to help me relocate to this new place but I think my kids have been through enough change and I don't want to move them from their neighborhood. However, I guess I would have to think about staying if he offered me enough money where my lifestyle and the kids would change drastically and if, only if, my children approved of the move for the extra money and better home we could get...which would probably be around $400.00 more a week, plus helping with relocating...So I guess I do have a price...just totally not to deal with money...

However, if he became any worse than he is, even a little worse...there's no amount of money or being close to my kids that would do it...

Just FYI...Growing up my family had very little money, I had a happy life and family though. I remember once going to a very rich friend's house and I had the most miserable weekend of my teenage life. They were a very disfunctional family. When I got home I was so appreciative of my little house, shairng a room with my sister and my family. I don't remember ever wishing we had money after that. Thinking about it...I really never cared about money much before that either. Overall, I have always been content with the things I have had, even when it wasn't much. However, I would probably be miserable going back to the lifestyle I had when I was younger, I feel quite spoiled now.

Did any of that make any sense? It sure sounded like I was rambling...It's just a tough question and no simple answer.

ANNA