Dear All:

This is my first post to this forum and look forward to sharing ideas and also to helping others if I can.

A bit of background: I am a 39 year old American living in Finland. My family includes my wife Kirsi (a Finn, also 39) and two children; a 12 year old son and a 9 year old daughter. Kirsi is still my wife although within one week, we will be legally divorced. Kirsi filed for divorce last summer on July 2nd just 10 days after I confessed to her that I had been unfatihful. It happened about 7 times between 1989 - 2001 while I was away from home on business travel. I fully regret this terrible behavior and have pleaded for Kirsi`s forgiveness. None of these incidents were anything more than one night stands and no on-going relationships were ever formed or desired. This does not, of course, absolve me from responsibility! Unfatihfulness is just plain wrong, and I know that my actions have caused my wife great pain. I am profoundly sorry. I truly am!!

I confessed to my wife because I could no longer live with the guilt. This guilt consumed every aspect of my life. I gained weight, let my physical condition suffer badly, and walked around in a continual cloud of dark thoughts. For the latter half of the 90`s, I felt as if I was on the edge of a breakdown. The catalyst though which finally caused me to "unload" my guilt was when Kirsi herself told me that she had developed a strong sexual attraction to the common law husband of her work colleague. She asked me if she could pursue a sexual experience with him. In our marriage, we had an understanding (though in retrospect, I see it was a very poorly defined understanding) that an outside sexual experience was permissible as long as it would be discussed and approved in advance. My fatal sin (to Kirsi, an unforgivable sin) is that I went ahead without talking about it first. Indeed, I was dishonest, but when I think back, I also believe I was just too embarrassed and ashamed to discuss this "warped" need of mine. Instead, I shamefully hid my actions. I guess I always sensed that if I confessed to her, even after the first transgression, our marriage would be over. I was right.

After my confession on June 21st (our 17th anniversary), Kirsi "immdediately" began a relationship with this man (her colleague`s common law husband). He has since left his common law wife. Kirsi`s and his relationship has continued now for the last 9 months. Kirsi feels fully justified in this relationship because, after all, I betrayed her first.

During the last 9 months, I have tried all I can think of to rebuild our marriage, but because her relationship continues, I have just been hitting a brick wall. Kirsi moved out two months ago to a nearby apartment, and as stated, our divorce will be final within a week. Her lover lives in a town 10 miles away and they are in touch regularly. Our children primarily live with me unless I am on travel or have a late evening. We have not yet settled anything in writing regarding the children, but now that the divorce will be final, that step will need to be taken too. Kirsi has not introduced our children to her lover because I sense that he wants very little to do with someone else`s children. I guess Kirsi fears that she will scare him away. Over all, her lover wants to proceed very slowly so I sense that their relationship could last indefinitely on his terms. Divorce, and the contorted relationships which result, is so casual and common in Finland. I feel as if I am up against a substantial cultural barrier as well.

I still Love my wife so very deeply and regardless of our "legal" divorce, I will find it hard not to consider us married. I know I must move on, but somehow, I still have hope that we could resolve our problems and remarry. I believe in the sacredness of marriage and also that Love includes the capacity for forgiveness. Many couples just give up too easily. Although Kirsi does not consider that she has done anything wrong, I know that I could forgive her and accept her back fully into my life. She is a good person, and my dishonesty most certainly shocked her deeply. I want to work for our precious marriage and know that I can be a good husband to her from this day forward. I feel I have grown tremendously emotionally and spiritually during the last 9 months. I am also in better shape physically. I am ready when she is.

As I look back, I see that my unfaithfulness was more about my own low self-esteem, and ex-patriate loneliness than about real dissatisfaction with our marriage. We had a good marriage for the most part and so very many wonderful memories.

Kirsi claims that she must have her independence, and given the fact that I was her first lover (we met at age 17), she also wants a variety of sexual experiences. I accept this, but I never thought that her Love for me would evaporate.

I find all this quite challenging to overcome but I guess that is what tomorrow is for.

Thanks for listening.

Doug in Finland

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DouglasNielson:
<strong>In our marriage, we had an understanding (though in retrospect, I see it was a very poorly defined understanding) that an outside sexual experience was permissible as long as it would be discussed and approved in advance.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, WELCOME. As you can see I've been on this site for quite a while. There are many great people here who are eager to offer encouragement and advice. I pray that the children are adjusting as best they can.

I guess I'm out of touch but could you please explain the above statement. And I'm curious how you feel a relationship could ever work with that understanding. Please don't get me wrong because I'm in no way trying to diss you. I'm simply trying to understand the changing tides of the 20th century.

Prayers for you and your family.

Doug - if I understand right, you knew about this asking permission to have sex with someone else outside of marriage is okay, as long as you ask your partner and your partner agrees, before you two married? Did the two of you marry in Finland, or US? And what religion did you two marry under?

Seems odd, so I ask what religion does the Finland people hold up to? Do they believe in God, and committment of vows? Is the Finland people accustomed to Polygamy?

Sorry you are going through the path of so much pain. Have you explained to your wife why you were unfaithful, and the sincere depth of your pain that you betrayed her?

Your children are in deep sorrow for the loss of their parents. Counseling should be available for your children, as well as yourself. Was there counseling for the two of you before you two decided to go through the divorce? Seems, it was a rush job of signing papers to get out of this marriage?

To help out, there is a little more background needed. This is a rough path that you are enduring, and your children are feeling the pain of this path. Blessing to you and your wife and the children.

Dear Lost Husband:

Wow this works quickly.

The quote which to which you referred

"In our marriage, we had an understanding (though in retrospect, I see it was a very poorly defined understanding) that an outside sexual experience was permissible as long as it would be discussed and approved in advance."

indeed was a major source of problems in our marriage. I was very immature in my thinking in our early years and I regret this very much. As the years went by, I believed less and less in this open marriage concept. I don`t think Kirsi ever really beleived in this at all, but she went along with it just to please me. I thought that this open attitude would indicate maturity and would lead of a strong marriage spiced with eroticism and sexual fulfilment. I know now how entirely wrong I was. And when I went ahead and acted on this without first consulting Kirsi (breaking our contract) well you can imagine how she now feels.

I cannot change the past, but regardless of my past stupidity, our marriage did work for many years and we had a special unique Love. The second time around, I will know just what to do, if I get that chance.

Doug

Dear Faith4Me:

I will answer your questions as best I can.

Finland is nearly 100% Luthern. To me, religion here in Finland is more about tradition than people. The ceremonies are cold and impersonal. The Luthern church here is a quietly revered institution which very few people seem to talk about. I was raised going to church. My mother is a strong believer and insisted we all go to church weekly. Her insistence became a bit obsessive though and caused us to rebel somewhat.
Kirsi had no background in church attendance whatsoever; as is so typical in Finland.

Neither my wife nor I practiced religion to any extent during our years together. I realize that this was a tragic mistake. If, for instance, we had received pastoral pre-marital counselling, so many problems could have been avoided. We were married in Finland at a Luthern church, but we never talked to anyone regarding what marriage means. Both our parents had difficult marriages. Kirsi`s parents divorced when she was four years old. My parents stayed together for 43 years until my Dad died, but there were also many problems through the years. Neither of us had good role models or sounding boards.

Yes, my children are hurting. I talk to them daily about what divorce means; and that no matter what happens, I will always be here for them. I am just now moving towards counselling for them. I do not criticize their mother at all. I remind the children that their mother is a good person which she is.

Indeed I have written and spoken to my wife about the depth of my regret, but I am afraid that forgiveness is not in her dictionary. At the age of four, Kirsi`s life was up-ended when her father left her mother for another woman. All her life, she has mistrusted men and in the end, I guess I just became another one of those male pigs. The difference is that I have not left my wife. I sinned badly, yes, but I am still standing for our marriage.

Finally, marriage is Finland is not held in high esteem by the media. Divorce is front page news though. There is a very casual fatalistic attitude to marriage in Finland. I am not saying at all that the majority of marriages in Finland are of the "open" variety, so no I can`t say that consensual polygamy is practiced. I am just saying that when there are problems in marriages, such as unfaithfulness, most Finns will say, oh well, time to move on, divorce was inevitable anyway. Too bad.

I realize that some poison seeds were planted in our marriage long ago. We had a rough time of it early on due to many reasons. But we have also grown and matured greatly in recent years and we have two beautiful children. It is a shame that the immaturity of our past is taking away what was about to start blossoming.

Doug in Finland

Terve Mihta Kullu?

Hi Doug,

Sorry for your situation. Just a note about me: I lived in Finland while attending Helsinki University. I am from the USA but now live in England. I hope I can assist but not sure if I can.

I think you are correct on the rate of divorce. Finns for the most part seem to be very open to a lot of differing ideas of what consititutes a normal realtionship than most Americans. All my close friends, while living there, were Finnish. I have to say that I do admire the culture in some respects but when it comes to their sexuality and idea of marriage I am not sure.

I gather from what you stated the "open marriage" was your idea. Sorry you now realize this was a mistake. To be honest I am not sure you will gain your wife back. From what I know of Finnish women most do not look back when they shut the door on a marriage. I have had several collegues who's marriages broke down and the Finnish woman was very pro-active in making sure it was over.

You are lucky in that you have the children. I know of a couple of divorces where the women have gained full custody of the children and would not allow the father to visit. The courts allowed this just because the fathers were not Finnish. Again the laws might have changed a bit since I was there attending University.

Speaking as a German Lutheran I am not sure you really can base your divorce on Lutheranism. Yes the country is 90% Lutheran but overall, it is like American, in that it is a secular society. Only about 10% Finns visit church on a regular basis. I use to attend the rock church services in Helsinki every sunday. Hardly anyone ever showed up. With Finland being a secular society it makes getting a divorce rather easy. The same could be said about the USA and even England. As time passes it becomes easier and easier to obtain a divorce and there are no stigmas attached.

I can understand your pain and even the pain of your wife and children. Maybe try Plan A the best you can. Not sure if you can stall the divorce at this point. Let your wife know you still love her and want your marriage.

I wonder how her co-workers view your wife and her role in distroying the common law marriage at work? My guess is no one is really bothered by it other than the common law wife. Even affairs in Finland, I have found, were not frowned upon. Just wondering. At least she is not trying to push the new man on your children. That is a bonus.

Again I am very sorry for your pain. I hope I helped. I feel as if I have not.

Hi MoiNouvelle:

It is always interesting to hear from other Americans who have experienced Finland. I think you sum up things pretty well. I also expect that my wife will never look back so I am actively trying to re-build my life. Nonetheless, I do remain ready to work on our marriage if she is.

Regarding the topic of open marriage, suggesting this in the early days of our relationship was my big mistake and caused problems for us. It was my sincere, though very misguided, attempt to bring maturity and some type of total trust and open idealism into our relationship. This topic though was just left to wither in confusion for so many years and was never resolved. As the years went by, both of us grew certain that it did not belong in our marriage. However, because I crossed the line back so long ago in 1989 and was unfaithful to her, I caused irreparable damage to this very sensitive issue. I don`t expect Kirsi will ever forgive my mistake and she also has fallen in Love with someone else.

I don`t anticipate any problems regarding child custody. We have agreed upon joint custody and will basically allow the children to decide where they wish to spend their time. My children are 12 & 10 years old and seem to adjusting well. My attitude is that they can be with me just as much as they want. I may be very naive, but I do not believe my wife will not battle me on this issue. Neither of us want the children to be caught in between a big legal mess.

I did not mean to imply that the Luthern Church is to blame for my divorce, not at all. I know who is to blame. It is me. I was just commenting upon how church attendance is a very low prioroty in Finland. Church in Finland is very much a spectator sport.

Thank you for your kind words. All will work out in the end. It just happens to be my turn for sadness.

Doug in Finland

Hi Doug,

I am happy that you and your STBXW can work together regarding the children. I have seen some men fight like mad to have at least visitations with their children and to be blocked at every turn. Again I have not been to Finland since the mid 1990s.

When I was in Finland they were voting on joining the EU. By now I am sure a great deal has changed.

I am very sorry about the end of your marriage. Maybe you could Plan A your wife for a while longer; even after the divorce. Who knows she might wake up from the fog of this current relationship. I have to say from your writting you really have taken on a lot of Finnish ways. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I want to visit again. I have not been back since I left for the USA. It is such a beautiful country. BTW where is your home town? I am not familiar with that city. And not sure if you really want to give your address out to everyone on the Internet.

Hi Again MoiNouvelle:

I live in Järvenpää which is 35 km north of Helsinki on the main train track north.

Next time you are in Finland, just send an e-mail to me in advance to: douglas.nielson@hkkk.fi I´d be glad to meet up with you.

You mentioned that I have taken on Finnish ways and wonder what you mean by this. I have tried to stay American here, but I guess something in my written English must be slipping.

Regards,

Doug In Finland