I am so mad at myself, I can't believe how I can easily get sucked back into my stbxh charm and his manipulation. He is just driving me over the edge....and I am letting him that is the problem. I had done so good not speaking to him and not calling and then he sends me one email that makes me just fall apart. Now today I am completely consumed again, I can't get my mind off of him I keep going back and forth, angry then sad...I see him next week if he still is coming up, after he gets divorce papers he may decide differently...he knows they are coming, but he is angry because I listed him as a alcoholic and prescription drug abuser, and I filed that with the court...he is livid...and now I am feeling guilty, I feel like I need to apologize for hurting him.....oh this sounds insane. Has anyone else had this happen to them???????

I can relate. These kind of spouses are very good at turning the table on the other spouse. My H is an expert at making me feel I am the one to blame and that I am the one hurting him. It is a cycle and like you said it is manipulation that sucks you right back in. Like a trap. Don't fall for it. Stand your ground. If he is an acoholic and drug abuser than that is the truth and he has only himself to be angry with. Watch out for yourself and your children first. Let him worry about his anger issues.

Amen--what she said!

My stbxH does the exact same thing. He has had 13 affairs, does not treat his bipolar or BPD, has been rageful and abusive to the point of ripping the door off the refrig--yet he was furious with me for putting that into a restraining order and into court documents. He IS an angry, abusive, addicted man and I'm not making that up, yet SOMEHOW *I* am the one to blame for our marriage falling apart and for not keeping all his bad behavior a secret!!

I remember one night he was over at the house after we had separated, and he was screaming at me. I said, "This conversation is over--we're getting nowhere. Please leave" with no attitude or snottiness--just factually and firmly. Well, he REFUSED to leave my home!! (Just to be clear, this was our marital home that he had moved out of for 2 months or so at the time, but his name was on the title). According to him, "I have the right to come and go in this house, take anything I want, go through anything I want, and be here whenever I want to!" I was stunned! I tried to explain to him that I could not go over to HIS apartment and just unlock the door and go through his stuff whenever I wanted to, so he could not go through our stuff--but he wouldn't leave. In fact, he was trying to kick ME out! So I said, very calmly: "LEAVE. I've asked you repeatedly to leave; I've explained to you that you can not stay and go through our stuff; LEAVE. You have a choice: either choose to go peacefully now or I will call the police to protect me." He wouldn't go. WOULDN'T!! So I called the police.

After that he was FURIOUS with me (and I mean furious) because "now he had a domestic abuse record." Somehow *I* was to blame!! He didn't even see that I asked him several times (and he made the choice to refuse); that I explained to him why he had to go (and he refused to go); and that I gave him the choice to stay and call the cops or go peacefully (and he chose to stay and continue the abuse)!! Nope--*I* was to blame for his choices and for him having a police record and for him being abusive to me all those years and for him choosing the affairs even!! Yep! He was angry that I filed a restraining order--even though I NEVER would have if he had stopped the abuse and treated me even NEARLY RESPECTFULLY. He's mad that I put in the divorce papers that he's been abusive--and the problem is not that he BEHAVED that way...it's that I TOLD SOMEONE.

I guess he is allowed to be out-of-control, and I am supposed to just shut up and take it. How screwed up is that???

Mommax8--I know how you feel...as if you should apologize for "hurting him" and bringing up the fact that he is alcoholic and abusive...as if it's your fault somehow. But you know what helps me a lot?? I am more than willing and ready to apologize to my stbxH for hurting him, when he honestly and sincerely apologizes to me for years of abuse and addiction, and for hurting me. That, for me, is the signal that there is real healing going on: when they keep their eyes focused on THEIR OWN problems and not "what you did." Anything other than that is just manipulation.

CJ

Momma, If you know everything in your papers is true,stick to your guns and let him cry, stay focused on WHY your at where your at...I'd tell him you can still be civil to each other but facts are facts..The option is always there for him to clean up his act and change,but what are the odds of that?? ;]

well let me give you an update...i am sitting at my desk and the phone rings....he is on the other end (he has not called me once on the work line since he left) I nearly fall out of the chair, my face becomes completely flushed, i could hardly breathe, and my heart jumps into my throat. He says to me "wow I didn't expect that reaction", I told him I didn't expect him to call here..He wanted to tell me he loves me...I am completely and totally confused...I am so scared right now because my heart is telling me one thing and my brain is telling me another...I told him the stipulations for us every reconciling...he said he would do it all and attend retroville weekend...ok where is my stbxh because you are not him.....I keep saying WAKE UP WAKE UP MOMMA, what do you all think ???? (that is a tennesse accent huh ya'll)

Momma only you can really judge.

Just from my own experience though. Abusers know just when to start pulling the I love you crap. When they see you are setting boundaries and improving your self esteem, they stop acting angry and abusive and turn on the charm. You get sucked right back in and then that's when they begin to manipulate and start abusing again.

If he trully changes and does what he says he will to save the marriage. Wonderful. That would be great. But I wouldn't get my hopes up over what he says. Actions speak louder than words. He needs to prove through his actions that he is serious about doing what it takes.

Mx8 - you need to be really strong right now. Let his actions show you things, not his words (which he hasn't kept). Our hearts are fickled, (the Bible says deceitful and wicked) and before you let your heart lead, you should let your head (brain) lead.
You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I nearly fall out of the chair, my face becomes completely flushed, i could hardly breathe, and my heart jumps into my throat. He says to me "wow I didn't expect that reaction", I told him I didn't expect him to call here </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this mean you told him how his call made you feel? If so, next time don't do that - don't tip your hand, be cool <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

It was GREAT that you spelled out the stipulations for reconciliation but remember, he needs to prove that he is doing those (not that he WILL do them, but that he IS doing them) before you will reconcile. You can both continue to work on things while apart. It's easier to protect your heart that way.

Welcome to Tough Love, btw.

Yes, momma I would like to know if you told him how you feel. Be careful, men like these are manipulators, and they cause a lot of problems.

I am reading the book by Lundy Bancroft, "Why Does He Do That?"

This book talks about the inside of the minds of angry and contrlling men.

Maybe something for you to read. Just a thought. But be careful, you are vulnerable right now, and any kind of kindness, just seems wonderful. If he is sincere, you will know. But remember to keep your heart a little distant, for the bomb may fall again.

I would accept his willingness to try. I would accept his committment. But I would actually stay separated and see how things go first.

Momma8 (((((((((((((HUGGS)))))))))))))))))))))

I hear your pain, confusion, torment, mixed dizziness. Haven't we all been sun spun...

All right,are heads, hearts and minds are being messed with and our children.

Wait a minute if you will notice as I am noticing everything revolves "them". All energies is for "them", all research is to figure out "them"? All efforts to now protect ourselves from "them"
Our heart is broken by "them"

Are self worth seems be validated from "them"

However, you as I have not had a real chance to heal? Or look deeply at our wounds, or even are deep personal issues like defeminization of woman.

"WHY DO WE PERMIT OURSELVES TO BE DISRESPECTED AND WHY DO ALLOW OTHERS TO HURT US"...

The scales are so imbalanced. Where is our dignity? So much work needs to be done like when our spouses destroy our worth, self respect we are totally alone to rebuild.

Since that song hooked you. I am going to look the words for the song called "Respect" I do recall one out there by Arthea Franklin I think? But if not, maybe us gals/guys here at MB could write one we do have an excellent talent pool of thinkers, composers and writers.

Sooo, hold on to your heart there honey. I will look up the words and perhaps we can micro inspect each word and maybe you may want to send that one back to him.

Really all we want is respect? Everything else works it self together on that bridge. How we go about getting back forselves.

As they say it takes two to tango but only one to stop the dance...

Balloons of hugs.....

MX8,

Well located those song lyric and might be a good idea for us to look carefully at the words. Smiles..

Respect by Aretha Franklin (pics)

Lyrics - Respect
What you want
Baby I got it, mmm
What you need
Cause you know I got it
All I'm asking
Is for a little respect when you get home
Hey baby, when you get home
Just a little bit, Mister

Ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone
Ain't gonna do you wrong 'cause I don't wanna
And all I want you to do for me is
Give it to me when you get home
Alright now
When you get home, alright

I'm about to give you all my money
And all I'm asking, in return honey
Is to give me my profits
When you get home
Alright now
When u get home
Just a little bit
Just a little bit

Oooo your kisses
Sweeter than honey
And guess what
So is my money
And all I want you to do for me is
Give it to me when you get home
Alright now
When you get home, a little respect

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Take care of TCB

Noo, a little respect

Lyrics - Respect
What you want
Baby I got it, mmm
What you need
Cause you know I got it
All I'm asking
Is for a little respect when you get home
Hey baby, when you get home
Just a little bit, Mister

Ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone
Ain't gonna do you wrong 'cause I don't wanna
And all I want you to do for me is
Give it to me when you get home
Alright now
When you get home, alright

I'm about to give you all my money
And all I'm asking, in return honey
Is to give me my profits
When you get home
Alright now
When u get home
Just a little bit
Just a little bit

Oooo your kisses
Sweeter than honey
And guess what
So is my money
And all I want you to do for me is
Give it to me when you get home
Alright now
When you get home, a little respect

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Take care of TCB

Noo, a little respect

Lyrics - Respect
What you want
Baby I got it, mmm
What you need
Cause you know I got it
All I'm asking
Is for a little respect when you get home
Hey baby, when you get home
Just a little bit, Mister

Ain't gonna do you wrong while you're gone
Ain't gonna do you wrong 'cause I don't wanna
And all I want you to do for me is
Give it to me when you get home
Alright now
When you get home, alright

I'm about to give you all my money
And all I'm asking, in return honey
Is to give me my profits
When you get home
Alright now
When u get home
Just a little bit
Just a little bit

Oooo your kisses
Sweeter than honey
And guess what
So is my money
And all I want you to do for me is
Give it to me when you get home
Alright now
When you get home, a little respect

R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Take care of TCB

Noo, a little respect

One more tune--don't you want to feel,be validated and treated, treasured this way. I read these words and spirit quickens. How can woman feel this way when her partner is so self asborbed and treats us having no worth..

Who were you before you were married? What were you like? These are the questions I am asking myself. Being broken down and oppressed is certainly not God orginally design for us women. Such a waste and I know I am so tired of being wasted..we are lovely creation and so are men. Isn't it time genders acted like one/treated others?

Lyrics - Natural Woman

Looking out on the morning rain
I used to feel uninspired
And when I knew I had to face another day
Lord, it made me feel so tired
Before the day I met you, life was so unkind
But you're the key to my peace of mind

'Cause you make me feel
You make feel
You make me feel like
A natural woman

When my soul was in the lost and found
You came along to claim it
I didn't know just what was wrong with me
Till your kiss helped me name it

Now I'm no longer doubtful
Of what I'm living for
Cause if I make you happy, I don't need to do more

'Cause you make me feel
You make feel
You make me feel like
A natural woman

Oh, baby, what you've done to me
Ooh, you make me feel so good inside
And I just want to be close to you
You make me feel so aliive

You make feel
You make me feel like
A natural woman

Me again,

Found this song lyrics which really stood out. Think I am on a roll. Lyrics here spoke to my heart about persons who don't take their personal life responibilties seriously..could apply to persons with mental/emotional disorders, addictions etc and impact on us.

If your heart is so inclined towards TRUE reconcilation and your husband heart that is indeed deeply divinely directed matter of grace. The WORK has to be done otherwise and YOUR RECOVERY/HEALING TOP PRIORITY.

(Dancemania) Respect: Armed & Extremely Dangerous (N/A)

I said he's dangerous
Armed and extremely dangerous
(Oh yeah yeah yeah)

The day he walked into my life
He caught me with my guard down
(Guard down)
And I thought it was love at first sight
Then he started to play around
So girls let me warn ya
Don't let him talk, his sweet talk charm ya
Cos I bit on the bait that he threw
And I got hooked don't let it happen to you

*I said he's dangerous
Armed and extremely dangerous
(Oh yeah yeah yeah)
I said he's dangerous
Armed and extremely dangerous
(Oh yeah yeah yeah)

The day I gave into his charms
Who would think that he would succeed
And then go on his way leaving me
Here iwht another mouth to feed
So girls if you see him
You might think that you need him
He might look like the average guy
But he's wanted by the FBI

*Repeat (x2)

I said he's dangerous (oh, ooh)
Said he's dangerous (oh, ooh)...

I said he's dangerous
Armed and extremely dangerous
(Oh yeah yeah yeah)...

Contributed by LockeVanish <lockevanish@uymail.com>