I'm going to post some thoughts here because I've really been struggling with some things... If I am, some of you might also be.

- Why is it that when searching on infidelity and what to do... you'll find a ton of "Signs of Cheating"... a ton of sites like this one... and a ton of PI types of stuff like investigator services, monitoring equipment etc. In processing my divorce, I talked with my lawyer about "snooping"... heck even MB recommends some snooping. It's all illegal. Or if not illegal inadmissable in a fault-divorce. It makes no sense to me.
- If you don't do anything, you'll never know. Our cheating spouses will never tell us the truth... or at best coddle our fragile egos because they've "already hurt us so much"...
- If we do, we find out the truth but in such a way that we become unable to use it for anything other than a confirmation that our cheating spouses really are the b@st@rds we suspected they had become.

I've read several posts on MB chats where some hapless person said, "I put monitoring software on my Waywards computer and found all sorts of stuff! What should I do?" And, they always get slammed for it like they've sold out.

Here's what I think... Knowledge is power. Sometimes it's legal sometimes it's purely strategic. It's a gray area in this mess our waywards have created for us. If you snoop, be prepared for what you find - it will almost always be a clarification of your worst nightmare... or even worse. If you snoop for any motive other than informational, then you are stooping to a lower level; the trade off is that you'll have taken an important step in protecting yourself.

I'm in the 5th month of separation in a 12 month divorce. My WW cc'd me on an email to some guy she's now having a cyber affair with. I spent 2 hours helping her figure out a new digital camera she bought with money taken from "us" in the separation agreement... $40,000 worth. <sighs heavily>. I thought I was helping her so she could send me pics of her new life. No, it was to send pics of herself to this guy. Like her affair, I have to assume that if I see this tip, there's a whole other part I can't see. Monitoring snooping software on her computer could have saved me from this.

It really hurt to get that. More so, her follow up saying she didn't care and it was my fault hurt even more. Our marriage might be ending, but I would have thought that she would have respected me and our marriage enough to wait for the dv to start dating. But, of course, a cheater is and always will be a cheater.

Snooping can save you a lot. It would have saved me considerable shock to getting an email describing her breasts to some guy off the internet. And, this is my fault how???

And the fog rolls in and turns everything gray. If you have and/or are snooping... I'm there with you. <sends out positive moral cheer to everyone that needs it> Go sic'em.

Snooping I always felt was what I needed to do to keep myself from going crazy - thinking that I was imagining things - but in actuality he was just lying and lying and lying.... It felt good to find out the truth.... even if it almost killed me.... sigh....

I must admit that I snoop some, too, but I always feel like I'm doing something wrong. After all, marriage is based on trust. I understand that most of us are here because that trusted has been betrayed but to rebuild you have to trust again. (I'm working daily on practicing what I preach.)

I don't think we SHOULD snoop because all the dirt comes out in time.

Lyxa:

I *think* I remember your story, but I'll have to check again.

What do I think about this issue? I think people should do what they feel they need to do, but like you say, they should be prepared for what they find. On that other thread where I suggested that s_d take the "moral high ground" you seemed to advocate being vindictive. So I came here to try to understand why:

"I'm in the 5th month of separation in a 12 month divorce. My WW cc'd me on an email to some guy she's now having a cyber affair with."

Why would she do this, if you're getting DV'd?

"I spent 2 hours helping her figure out a new digital camera she bought with money taken from "us" in the separation agreement... $40,000 worth. <sighs heavily>. I thought I was helping her so she could send me pics of her new life."

It was nice of you to help her with her camera, but why do you care about her new life, if you're DVing her for infidelity?

"No, it was to send pics of herself to this guy."

During my W's A, RM sent her an email asking her if she had a webcam. Another time, he wanted to meet her while she was out of state, and bring a video camera with him. Thankfully, no, she doesn't have a webcam and she decided not to go on the trip (she told me she wasn't feeling well, but I now know better - I remember that time, and she wasn't sicker than a mild cold). But, again, this is AFTER you're separated BECAUSE of her As. Why do you care?

"Like her affair, I have to assume that if I see this tip, there's a whole other part I can't see."

There may be an iceberg below the surface, but no: You don't have to assume ANYTHING. In fact, you're better off NOT making any assumptions of any kind. You can usually tell, can you not, when you're being lied to, particularly now, knowing what happened. Why do you need to know details of a past (or current) A during a past M?

"Monitoring snooping software on her computer could have saved me from this."

From the surprise, perhaps. Assuming you had no clue that the A was on-going. But nothing more.

"It really hurt to get that. More so, her follow up saying she didn't care and it was my fault hurt even more."

I don't know, Lyxa. It sounds to me like you're DVing without working through the problem. If you were truly ready for a DV, you wouldn't be bothered by what she says or does. None of it would hurt you. Instead, you'd feel pity for her.

"Our marriage might be ending, but I would have thought that she would have respected me and our marriage enough to wait for the dv to start dating. But, of course, a cheater is and always will be a cheater."

And a label is always a label. But she never worked on her respect, or her integrity for that matter, so although it's regrettable she's behaving the way she is, it's certainly not out of character for the alien mind.

"Snooping can save you a lot. It would have saved me considerable shock to getting an email describing her breasts to some guy off the internet. And, this is my fault how???"

Did she say it was your fault? But it doesn't matter. It sounds, again, like you aren't ready for DV, because you care what she does. To herself and to you.

Just my 2 bits. I could be wrong.
♥Qfwfq (fka 2long)

I disagree, I think that you can be ready for a divorce, yet still care about your spouse and what they do. I think that I want to see XW live a good and happy life, and in order for her to do this, she really needs to drop the morally deficient people that she runs with. That's not that I'm not ready for divorce, that is wanting someone I care about to live the best possible life.

As for snooping, I think that it is fair game only if you suspect. I never thought to snoop, until things just didn't add up. When this happened, I found the information that I was suspecting. I don't regret it, because she would have never told me the truth. I also found some lies she told him in there, as early in the relationship she told him that she would leave in a few months. She ended up staying with me for another 9 months after her leave date she promised. Guess I'm not the only guy she lied to during this time...

If someone were to snoop on me, I really wouldn't mind. I don't have anything to hide. Usually, those who are adamant about privacy or would chastise a snooper are people who do have something to hide.

If I wouldn't have snooped just a little bit ago, I would never have found out that my H has warts! I just found the medicine hidden in the basement. Dated the 20th of last month. I suspected he had them, but never having seen anything like that before, I kept asking him to get those "lumps" checked out. I snooped last month and found out he was being treated for them for about 4 or 5 months before we were married! Now I have to go get checked out <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> We haven't had any SF for almost a month now, but I probably already have something too. What a b!tch. I am soooo ready to get this so called man out of my life!!

h4b:

"I disagree, I think that you can be ready for a divorce, yet still care about your spouse and what they do. I think that I want to see XW live a good and happy life, and in order for her to do this, she really needs to drop the morally deficient people that she runs with. That's not that I'm not ready for divorce, that is wanting someone I care about to live the best possible life."

I don't think we disagree at all. What I meant is that the BS, if they're truly ready to DV, shouldn't feel hurt by the WSs behavior if they truly wish well for them. They should feel pity for the WS's behavior that's self-destructive, and hope that they'll pull their heads out and hang out with decent people, certainly. But that's not the same as taking what they do with their A partners personally.

I wouldn't mind if my W were to snoop on me, too. We might learn a lot! I have nothing to hide, either. I like this definition of the distinction between secrecy and privacy. With a distinction like this, there's not even a need to explain "lies of omission" which most WSs don't believe are lies at all:

"The Difference Between Secret And Private:

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree."

-Qfwfq

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>