Issue to deal with, would really be nice to have a day that one could totally devote to themselves. Maybe I am in the need of getting away for a weekend, and having time for me, and only me.

I am hearing what is being said here. The hurt still hurts, but it is not as deep as it used to feel. Moving along in baby steps, occasionally tumbling, and getting back up on the knees and then the feet. Divorce is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

I do trust in myself. I know that I am a good person, a good mother, a good wife, a good daughter. God loves me, for who I am, and God knows that I have been honest. What is difficult to have is trust. With this betrayal, and lies, from my husband, the self-esteem in my body has been destroyed to absolutely zero. He convinced me that I was the error, the bad one, the ugly woman, and he did a good job. Telling me not to go on anti-depressants, that I should beable to work on this without medication. Once again, stating that I am not good enough if I have to be on medication. But these are words of a man who lusted, and received lies and deceit with lust, and gave lies and deceit with lust. I am working on myself, knowing that I am a good person, a loving person, a good mother, a good wife and if he can't see that, then he has the problem.

Last night was my last group therapy session. We reviewed much of what we discussed, and had a celebration of cake and ice/cream. I will miss this group session, and my counselor left the meeting last night early. Her sister in Dominion Republic, is in the final stages of cancer. If you could please pray for her ('Carmen'). She went in February for 12 days to see her sister, knowing that she has ovarion and uterine cancer. And it had already spread through her body. She was called, to come, and she was on her way to the airport. Her love is so deep for her sister, and she is a very strong christian.

I have learned through the group session, that I am not totally at fault. I am a good person. I sustained severe injury through anger from my husband. I know that control is unhealthy. I know that control causes injury to many people. I have learned boundaries, set some boundaries. I need to do things for me now. I have been a giver my whole life, and trying to please others. No more, I am to give to myself, and grow with self-esteem. I no longer can fix my husband. I no longer can fix my MIL. She hasn't set boundaries, and she is suffering. I do love my husband, and I do love my MIL.

Pain is so difficult to deal with. Pain of the heart, and pain of the body. The neurons in my body feel the senses of pain from injury, and my heart is lessening with pain of brokenness. Baby steps to recovery, and self worthyness.

Bitterness is still present in my thoughts. After 25 years of marriage, and knowing what I know now, how stupid I was, how naive I was, how trusting I was and how I let someone elses CONTOL rule my life, was a growing experience. I don't want bitterness forever. I do feel sorry for my husband, and very sorry for my children. They are seeing a mother that is getting better, but I still spiral down, not as often.

Good news, I made some money at my garage sale yesterday. Have to pay off my lawyers, and we talked about a payment plan. Since I have nothing left of settlement money. Good news from my lawyer yesterday, will respond later aout this. The weather is beautiful here, got a little too much son at the garage sale. I have light skin, light brown hair, and blue eyes. and didn't think about skinscreen. So yes, my face is red, and my arms are red. Not severe, but enough that I should of put sunscreen on. The first really nice day, and poof, I didn't think about myself. Should of thought about myself again first. Hard to do, when all these years I thought about others first. Lesson learned yesterday, and I am being reminded every minute of the burning sensation I feel. SUNSCREEN, SUNSCREEN, SUNSCREEN!!!!!! Wearing a long sleeve shirt today, and putting lots of sunscreen on face.

Well, time to get up and get going, the little bunny is so cute, he sucks about 2or3 eyedropper of formula. He loves to be picked up and held. Our golden retreiver that brought the bunny to me, smells the bunny, and gives it little licks, which are huge for the bunny. This is her bunny. After drinking his formula, his little tongue goes out and licks his face, and he sits on his hind end and washes his face with his paws. This is Gods work in my home.

Will type more tonight, just needing to get going with the sale. Thanks all.

Our attitude points us in our life direction. Inward attitudes determine outward actions.

Attitudes are in our control because our attitude is shaped by our thinking and we can change our thinking.

We do have control over what we think about.

Faith4me--you ARE a good mom! If you were a bad mom, you would have just took off and left everyone including the animals to fend for themselves, but you didn't. You're still there dealing with everything. Lord knows you have devoted your entire life to your family's well-being and yes, I agree, it's time for MAMA!

Have a wonderful day no matter what comes! You can do this! (((HUGS)))

Thanks, I am still fighting words stated to me by husband, and now my oldest daughter. Of course she agrees with her dad. Of course, he buys her stuff. Who is paying her truck payment, dad. Who gave her money to pay for her apartment, dad. Who gives her gas money, dad. Who gives her money to buy grain for the horses, dad. She is like her father in a lot of ways, and so therefore, she agrees with her dad. She doesn't agree with me. Like today, she said, you can be a greeter at Meijers. I said, I have told you before that I find that offensive. Of course she gets into she was going to get a job at Meijers, and her dad was right here, and didn't say anything again, of don't talk to your mother like that. He just said lets go to Meijers, him and daughter.

This is what I hate. She doesn't talk respectfully to me. SNL has let the kids talk disrespectfully to me for years. And once again tonight, I expressed that I found these words disrespectful. I asked for a an apology. And she came out with why do I have to apologize? She didn't, and won't. And SNL doesn't care, hasn't cared for years. That was one of the remarks, I said to him many years ago. That he has no respect for me, and doesn't show the kids respect for their mother. This I have expressed, and he of course always said it was me. Like today, he probably said it was me again. Who in the heck knows what he said. But more belittling mom, and to heck with mom.

That is what is hard. That is what is wrong with the marriage. That is why I was unhappy. If he had treated me with thoughtfulness, I wouldn't of felt like I was being used. Again, tonight, my daughter heard that Alimony is taxaable. And of course, I won't be getting that much. So she was shown that I will get less than $15,000 a year. While he makes $138,000 a year. And mine will be taxable, and he gets to claim in on his taxes.

MOre venting, and more how unthoughtful SNL is and unkind. Yes, don't expect it, but all I ever hear from him is if you would sit down and talk with me. If you would do this, if you would do that. Why don't he just do the honorable thing, and be fair and radically honest to everyone.

Sheryl,

But my post had nothing to do with this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, about this idea of seeing the good, despite the bad</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you honestly say that your life was not made more complicated by the fact that you did not have enough money to pay for the basic necessities?

I responded to the original poster because I am tired of hearing "let them eat cake" platitudes. I am sure there are people who are happy in spite of being poor, though I doubt if there are many happy people among those who are so poor that they can not get medical care, or they watch their children go to bed hungry. I do not agree that their lives are in any way made simpler by the fact that they are poor - not being able to obtain sufficient food, or shelter, or medical care invariably complicates one's life. When we lived on the edge of Appalachia, someone stood up in church (Unitarian) one day and stated how grateful he was for the extremely cold weather we had been having. Obviously it had never crossed his mind that a huge percentage of people in that area did not have the luxury of enjoying the cold from the warmth of their centrally heated houses - about a third of the population, including us, had wood as their primary or only source of heat. At least we had plenty of wood, free for the cutting - many people were freezing, and every year, some people, often elderly, die from hypothermia because they can not afford heat. Are their lives, or deaths, made simpler by their poverty? The concept that not having enough money is simplifying is a concept that is held primarily by those who have more than enough. There is nothing good about freezing, about starvation, or about having to suffer untreated illness or pain.

Hi Nellie,

Today is a big posting day for me, and I suspect I won't be on for a few days... so if you respond and I don't, it's nothing personal.

Listen, I am not saying that living in poverty is fun - NOT AT ALL. I have spent most of my adult life in a financial mess, some due to my own bad choices, and some due to someone else's... I've been on social assistance, I've had times when no social assistance was available, I've lived with three kids and a husband in the back room of his parents house, I've written bad checks for food, I've BEEN THERE.

Now, when faced with these circumstances, we have a choice how to RESPOND. No, I never did make up a May-poll and dance around gleefully in spite of my problems, but what I have learned over the last several years is that wallowing and complaining has NOT made things better -- in fact, it has made things worse.

I'm not telling you how to live your life. You know how I feel about you, and about your situation. But what I am *suggesting* is that you begin, even slowly, to find the good. Things like: Your kids respect you, you are healthy enough to work, your kids got scholorships or finacial aid for college - those kinds of things.

Maybe I misread what was being written above, it's been known to happen. If so, forgive my butting in. You know I don't subscribe to some la-la existence... but I'm sick of feeling so crappy all the time. Aren't you?

New Beginning - Your statement of 'sick of feeling crappy' hits the heart. These feelings, lower your immune system, lower your self-esteem (if you have any left), and you feel like you are in a rut. When we express how we feel here, isn't it fair to let that person express themselves? Who knows, maybe they have no where else to go for expressing.

To not have enough money to survive, is painful. Like the poster above, saying how he was thankful for the cold. How many of those people hearing his words, were going home to a cold home, with very little wood to heat their home, and no food. This man stood up, and could view the cold from his warmth, with a warm tummy, knowing that he would be fine. How many of those people hearing his words, were wondering if their parents were going to make it through the night.

I complain here, cause I know that my XH is making very good money. Buys whatever he wants. And with myself not being able to work, for at least 6 more months, according to the doctor, (recovering from shoulder surgery) I am going to have a very difficult time. That is why I had a garage sale, to get some money. And what hurt, was husband came and bought something from me, and dished out a $100 bill, and gave it to me. He has plenty of money in his wallet, and that hurt. Cause what he bought was 2 old wooden school desks. I picked up for our kids, refinished them, and the kids used them. He comes along, and buys them, to give to the grandkids. Knowing that I am selling them for money to pay bills. He buys them not saying anything to me about I feel sorry that you have to sell these, takes them to where he is living and feels nothing about how I felt. I if I could, would of loved to save these for my grandkids. But I can't, I need money. I have bills to pay. That is part of downsizing, and part of survival.

Survival, is very hard to do, when your spouse can eat, whatever he wants. I was over his place and he buys gourmet eggs, and all the fine products. He doesn't have to feed 5, he only feeds himself. I haven't from day one got anything from him to pay for the eextra groceries for the 3 older kids living with me. And of course, the only one that really complains about buying foods she wants, is the oldest. She has gotten everything she ever wanted. Her dad has given her everything. And I was always the one saving money, buying in bulk when I found a great sale. Of course husband doesn't see value in my being efficient. But I have decided to do it the hard way. We are going to have to eat everything in the freezer, cupboards. Supplementing with a few additional groceries. And if the 3 oldest ones want groceries, I am going to say, go ask your dad for money. I only have to worry about myself and the one child. I have not been buying supplemental vitamins, cause the money is short. But I see at where husband is living, that he has supplements and has plenty.

Now is this easy to take. Nope. Is this what God wants, for me to suffer and see that my husband can live without worring about food, vitamins, health, all that we need to survive? And is this right, that I have to worry, and watch my husband dish out money. All our oldest has to do is ask, ask, ask, and she gets. Our oldest son I sold things at the garage sale for him. He told me to keep the profits of the sale. He only wanted what he paid for the items, and I said no. I told him that he deserves the profit. I said, thank you son, and he told me he has the money. He can give me the profits. That was so kind knowing that he was willing to give it to me. And it also hurt inside, for my son to say this to me. I never before would of projected to my kids that we were in deep financial trouble. Even when we were having a hard time making it as a family. I would provide food, and clothing, and things. What hurts, is that dad is able to buy, buy. Like tonight, we are all going out to dinner together. Cause it is our one daughters 21st birthday. Could I afford to take everyone out to dinner, NO! And when I complained to my husband and oldest daughter, that it hurts to see dad ask if anyone wants to go out to the movies, and takes everyone, and I can't do this. I can't afford to pay $9 or whatever for a ticket for everyone. But he can, and he doesn't see, the pain this causes in my heart.

Last night, my husband and once again the oldest daughter were going to Meijers shopping. And the statement came out from the husband, that he said, will lets trade places. He said, he will get what I get (this house, kids, and etc.), and I will get what he gets (house in Arizona, etc.). It was all well, until I said, okay, you live on $15,000 a year, taxable. And I live on your getting $???,???.00 a year. He said, then you go to the service calls. Exactly, I stated. See you can work, make great amount of money, go to the gym, buy things you want, and I said, I can't. I can't work, don't know if I will beable to get a job. Can't work out at the gym. And have to live on poverty level. But he doesn't get it, and doesn't show any feelings about his wife living on such a low income. Doesn't show any feelings, about not paying extra money for groceries for the 3 oldest kids. He asked me to watch the phones while he did a service call. I said I charge $20 a hour. He still hasn't paid me a dime. He doesn't give me respect, that I am the one that did my part in getting this business going. And that comes down to what was wrong. He never respected me. He didn't show the kids to have respect towards their mother. Cause they saw his actions. And again last night was another disrespectful action towards the mother. He should of right then and there, state to the daughter, you are not talking respectfully to me, and to say work at Meijers is not want your mother wants. You know as well as I that Meijers pays minimal wages. So please have respect towards your mother, she deserves a better job than that. But did he say anything of that sort. Nope. Just went out to Meijers shopping. That is disrespect, and unthoughtfulness again.

I know I am jumping around, but it all falls down to the one discussion. To downsize is great, but to downsize to where you don't know where you are going to get the money to pay bills, and have food and shelter, that is another story. And to see our spouses, buy whatever they want, and to spend money on whatever they want, while we sit here and worry from one day to the next is not right. If our spouses had cared enough, they would help to remedy the situation. That is why sometimes, I just go, have my husband shoot me. Like a horse with a lame leg, put her down. Cause the way it feels, is I am in the way. So be done with mom, cause he will find someone else to fill the spot. And hey, the oldest thinks her dad is fine. Even when I wanted to talk to her about her dads affair, she wouldn't let me, cause she didn't want to hear that her dad failed in her eyes. But she can talk to me about my failures. And that hurts. I never will be that special to my daughter. And I am glad that she loves her dad. But I did the best under the circumstances. I had to live with a husband who didn't respect his wife. I had to live with a husband who controlled my every step. It was not out of love, it was out of wanting to know where I was all the time. Unless, he can show me otherwise, that is how it was. I was isolated, he got upset when friends would call me. He got upset if I talked on the phone to friends. I better go, I am spiraling downhill again. Just more of the bitterness, and I need to get out of this house for now.

Pilot this is the tower. You're going nose down. Pull up.

That is what I have to say to you right now. This has hit a serious point. And I read and see the utter desperation in your voice but sitting here and venting about this and not doing something about it NOW is not going to do anything for you or your family.

Ok. My x has left me with over 50k in debt (joint cc's) and has ponly paid us 1000 in five months almost. That's less than 300 a month. And I know where you are coming from. I know what it is like to live week to week and maybe have 100 left in the bank, all to your name. I was a stay at home mom until a year and four months ago.

But now is the juncture where you decide if you are moving ahead or giving up. And you have to decide now.

Personally all through this I am wondering two things: 1)is faith on anti depressants or anti anxiety meds or is she still medicating herself with pain killers for the shoulder thing. and 2)if this settlement is so damn wrong, why did faith sign the settlement?

I remember when my mom calle me about nine months ago when my stbxh stole my son and tried to blackmail me into accepting a ridiculous offer and a custody agreement that is not decent or right. My mom called and said "You're going nose down. Pull up or your son goes down with you and this little family of two dies ok?"

It's like every time you get down you are giving him bullets to put into a gun to fire at you. You are giving him legal ammunition do you know that? By not focusing on what you CAN DO AND GETTING EMOTIONALLY HEALTHY he is winning and your kids and you are losing. MY X TRIED TO GET ME SO DOWN THAT HE HOPED I'D SELF DESTRUCT SO HE WOULD GET CUSTODY OF MY SON. Think about that. Do you want your xh to use your pain and make it to his advantage? As my mom said, get smart now. Wise up. This isn't pretty and it is a fight. One you have to win at any cost. The prize is your son. ARe you willing to do everything to continue to be the responsible parent who will morally be the correct person to raise you boy into adulthood?

I would advise you immediately to contact a women's abuse or hotline. They can put you in contact with legal aid. You may have to refile. This settlement is not fair and you should get a fair one. How did he get you to sign this? I have to know. You cannot ever placate your xh anymore. He's not going to CHANGE UNTIL HE WANTS TO. It is irrelevant with regard to you now.

And during your posts you call him "my husband". He IS NOT. HE IS NOT YOUR PROTECTOR ANYMORE AND IS MADE THAT VERY CLEAR. You've got to pull up right now. Emotionally pull up.

Contact a local church asap and start getting some free counseling. I did for the first few months after separation when my finances were very unsure. They will help. The women's hotline may be able to help you with this too. And find out how you can be placed on some proper meds for depression or anxiety. The painkiller is A DOWNER. It will make an already depressed person even more depressed ok? YOU MAY HAVE TO MODIFY YOUR DOSE AS PER A PHYSICIAN OR GO BACK TO DOC. You've got to get to a place where you can think clearly so you can make good choices. You'd be surprised how many good things can happen when you just have a clear head.

I know I have to exercise, take an anti depressive med (lexapro) and explore other job options if I am going to get free of Jethro and be totally and 100% for my boy. I will have to do everything I can. The exercise and med helps with clear thinking. And reading good books helps too. Try reading "life strategies" by Dr. Phil. That helped me tremendously.

Something has to change and change now. I am not going to comfort you with fluffy words or feel good phrases right now as I personally believe you to be in crisis mode.

I've been praying for you nonstop and want you to know I care. But you've got to do the one thing we can't do for you here: straighten out a few simple things first before tackling the big things. Get some counseling and on antidepressant. Find out from docs if your pain meds are depressing you further. Seek counseling at a church. It's loving and it's free. And also seek some more legal counsel. Do whatever legally to get the wheels turning in your favor. That may take a few months too so it's important to start now.

And the beautiful part about doing that is that you are proactive during your recovery period. lso start researching jobs and maybe finding a recruiter. If you can type to us here, you can find a recruiter. Also maybe find a church. You need others around you asap. And I mean it.

And finally, have a finality ceremony. Almost like a funeral if you will. I read this in a book called "When your lover is a liar" and put your marriage to SNL at rest once and for all. Write a few paragraphs and basically state what happened like they do at a funeral. Say how it started, what changed things and that sadly now you are having to admit the death of your marriage. And then (carefully of course and maybe outside), burn the pages and a photo. It works. I did it.

It is over. It is dead. You know what killed it and we do too. But it is over. You've got to press on. Grieve for now but be good to yourself and your children. Everybody starts out with nothing in this life. We've got to make something with that nothing ok? I am financially facing horrors also. But attitude is everything. Get it together ok? I mean it.

PULL UP. NOSE UP.

Let me know when you decide to do this. I pray for you and wish you health and recovery.

You have friends NOW Faith4me! And you will continue to make more and more friends. xh cannot interfere with that now, unless you ALLOW him to.

But I don't think you will allow him to interfere with your making friends because his reign is OVER--you are the queen of your castle now Faith4me and you can make as many friends as you want to.

Besides, xh is single now (and he has been living that way for a long time now) so he's probably too busy with his own friends to worry about yours.

Take care Faith4me

Faith: It is apparent that you are a good woman, and I know you have it rough. However, I believe that your way of thinking and your attitude makes you hurt more. You have control over your own life and future - exercise that control and quit looking to SNL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He should of right then and there, state to the daughter, you are not talking respectfully to me, and to say work at Meijers is not want your mother wants. You know as well as I that Meijers pays minimal wages. So please have respect towards your mother, she deserves a better job than that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Personally, I do not think it is SNL's place to make your daughter talk to you and treat you respectfully. It is YOUR place. He is responsible for his relationship with your daughter, and you are responsible for your relationship with her.

Also, minimum wage is better than nothing. I cannot imagine any job being beneath me if I had nothing. I would scoop poop for $1.00/hr. to feed and do things for my children.

As many others have posted on these boards to the effect that living well is the best revenge. Worry about Faith and let SNL worry about himself.

Sheryl,

I don't think that crappy is really the right word to describe how I feel - but I think it is counterproductive to try to pretend that things are better than they are. I manage to get through the day, to accomplish things, actually quite a lot of things, and I certainly appreciate my kids, etc. As I think I mentioned before, my sister once said that it is important to appreciate the small moments of enjoyment, because so much of life is horrible, and I think she had a point. Most of life is horrible, but it just is, and trying to pretend otherwise is pretty pointless.

I posted originally because I feel really terrible for Faith4me, and I don't think that people should be advising her to simplify, as if that would make things so much better. I don't think that any of us who do not live in constant pain can imagine how horrible it must be, and to have to worry about paying medical bills must make it a hundred times worse. It is hard enough to have to worry about food and shelter.

Here is some things that I did for myself. I am on anti-depressants. I am on pain meds, started taking them last week, for my shoulder, I am on anti-spasm pills, on anti-inflammatory pills. I just finished a 12 week course with battered wives. I called the other counselor that I am going to, that I will attend 2 more times, and then quit. Cause I won't beable to afford it anymore.

As for my daughter, I did ask for her to be respectful to me. I did ask for her not to mention a job at Meijers. I did ask for an apology. But this has been the case for most of my wife years with my husband. He has shown very little respect towards me, if the kids were disrespectful. It was not consistent, and therefore, she is like her father, and she follows his footsteps. She has not once said, that she is sorry for talking to me like that, and she has not apologized to me for not doing her chores or such. She is like her father in that way, her father would laugh it off, or come up with reasons for not doing things. A chip off the old block.

And what hurts, is last night, SNL took the family out to dinner. And the daughter that turned 21, her boyfriend too. It was a nice dinner, we had a beautiful meal and like I stated would happen earlier. She didn't thank me for the gift, she didn't thank me for the dinner. The card said it was from both mom and dad. She didn't thank me for anything. BUT <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> she did right at the dinner table, thank her father for the gift, did thank her father for dinner. And I got nothing. So she knows who spent the money on the gifts, and who spent the money on dinner. No mom, but dad. See, this is not fair, and this is what I said about disrespect. He should of stated to the daughter, everything was from both of us, and your mother needs respect and thank you too. But of course SNL didn't think about me, didn't think about how I felt. I was hurting deep inside, and I didn't let it show. I just smiled, and did my best not to cry. I played with her boyfriend, and conversed in the conversation, like nothing happened.

I talked to my pastors wife this morning in private. And I talked to her about my feelings. I expressed the hurt, the continuing disrespect I receive, from SNL and the kids. And I told her, this is one of the reasons why I really don't feel like living for now. I hate the disrespect, I hate the point that I am a human being, and I guess I am just a punching bag for everyone to use. I came home from church, and once again, I asked everyone to get their chores done. I asked our oldest daughter to clean the dishes. And once again nothing is done.

So I guess, I will just go away for the day, and take a book and blanket and read. And sleep outside in the park or something. I need to get away from all this hassle. I am looking forward to my son coming home, he flys in this afternoon. He was in England with the highschool advanced placement history class. He called the other day, and it was so great to hear his voice. He is a loving young man, and he is so sensitive. Anyways, I need to change and get going. I think I will go away for awhile.

Hi Faith4me,

Your list of things you have done/are doing for yourself is getting longer!! Good for you!!! I remember a few months back when you were getting started with taking care of yourself, and I remember how hard that was for you to do. But you started doing new things Faith4me, just like I'm sure you will start to do new things in your current situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Faith4me, the situation with your daughter is what it is. She did not become a "princess" overnight. But guess what Faith4me? YOU are still the QUEEN of YOUR castle! Why are you handing that power--YOUR power--to the princess???? If she wants to be queen, then she needs to move into her OWN castle.

Here is an example of keeping your power Faith4me...

You said:
"As for my daughter, I did ask for her to be respectful to me. I did ask for her not to mention a job at Meijers. I did ask for an apology"

Don't ask her Faith4me, TELL her. Daughter, I expect you to show me respect. Daughter, I told you to not mention a job at Meijers--you are showing me disrespect by talking about it in this manner. Daughter, you owe me an apology for being disrespectful to me.

You said:
"she has not apologized to me for not doing her chores or such."

Faith4me, why do you think daughter should apologize? Do you think she's sorry or remorseful in any way? I don't. So if she did say she was sorry about it, but wasn't sorry, that would make her a liar. It doesn't sound like she lies to you Faith4me, it sounds like she is very honest about her view even when her view hurts you. This is actually a GOOD thing Faith4me, because she lets you know exactly where her relationship with you stands--and that gives you the information you need to decide what you want to do with your end of your relationship with her.

You said:
"She didn't thank me for the gift, she didn't thank me for the dinner. The card said it was from both mom and dad. She didn't thank me for anything. BUT she did right at the dinner table, thank her father for the gift, did thank her father for dinner"

You know what that is really about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Faith4me, please start doing your part of getting daughter out of this unhealthy triangle. This is NOT supposed to be a competition between you and your daughter over xh's money, attention, caring, etc. Remove yourself from the triangle Faith4me, it is the only way for your daughter to get out of this triangle because she cannot do it for herself--and her father certainly isn't going to voluntarily give up his leg of the triangle since he is the one who is benefitting from it in the ways that he wants. It is up to YOU Faith4me, because if you don't do it it's not gonna happen.

You said:
"He should of stated to the daughter, everything was from both of us, and your mother needs respect and thank you too"

Faith4me, if you need respect from your daughter it is up to YOU to state it. A simple Your Father And I Both Wanted You To Have This would have sufficed. If there was no thank you in response then you could have simply said something like You're Welcome, I Hope You Enjoy It. The same response would also work if daughter said thank you.

You said:
"But of course SNL didn't think about me, didn't think about how I felt."

Were you expecting something different? Don't.

You said:
"I was hurting deep inside, and I didn't let it show"

Good job Faith4me! This is a start for getting out of your leg of the triangle. Also, this is good because there will come a day when xh's actions will not bother you, because your love for him won't be there the way it still is now--and he won't know how fast that is happening because on the surface it will look the same <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You said:
"And I told her, this is one of the reasons why I really don't feel like living for now. I hate the disrespect, I hate the point that I am a human being, and I guess I am just a punching bag for everyone to use."

Faith4me, do you like being a punching bag? If you do, then keep doing everything the same as you are doing. If you don't like it, then start making some changes in how you will act and how you will respond when anyone takes a swing at you. Don't expect people to stop swinging at you until you learn how to defend yourself in a way that their blows don't land. People who are taking swings at you must be getting something out of it or they wouldn't continue putting in the effort. Take that away from them by learning to block the blows, or by keeping yourself out of their line of fire altogether.

You said:
"I came home from church, and once again, I asked everyone to get their chores done. I asked our oldest daughter to clean the dishes. And once again nothing is done."

Faith4me, you "asked" them and evidently their "answer" was NO. Next time TELL them.

Btw, I had this same problem a few years ago. Nothing was getting done, and I mean nothing. The defiance was really bad and nothing I tried had worked. I told my kids that if they were over 18 and doing that I would put them out and they would no longer be living in MY house. I told them this to try to convey just how serious of a situation it was to me. Well, one was a teen, one was a preteen, and one was a kid so they knew that I wouldn't make them move out so nothing changed. But it gave me an idea--always a dangerous thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Every time I was met with defiance over chores, the offender was "put out"--they had to go sit outside on the porch until I was finished with their chore that I needed done. It took a while but as the weather got colder it was more and more successful LOL I also put them out for blatant disrespect. The first few times they decided when they would come back in (I told them they could come back in when they were ready to show respect). It progressed to me giving them a "minimum" amount of time to stay out, but they could stay out for as long as it took for them to decide to be respectful.

Faith4me, you will find something that works for you--if you start trying out different methods.

You said:
"I need to get away from all this hassle."

I'm glad you took a break and got away from all the hassle. That can be a good thing to do while you are still in the process of learning ways to get the hassle away from you.

Have a wonderful time catching up with your son and hearing about his trip! I hope he had a terrific time!!

Take care Faith4me

Faith,

Your expectations are destroying you - pure and simple. You are expecting things from your daughter and SNL that they don't have to give (apologies, respect, love, etc.). Should they - YES, but they don't have to. There is nothing you can do to make them give it to you outright. You can set boundaries, and decide what YOU will tolerate. And even then about your choice is to ask for it and/or remove yourself from the situation.

Quit expecting those around you to meet your expectations, and I am sure you will find yourself much more content (when you really get there).

By the way, many kids don't do their chores. As long as you go behind them, I doubt they ever will do their chores responsibly.

Faith, work on you (I know you have been), but really work on not expecting things (too much) from them.

Do me a favor, quit looking for and posting all the negatives and only posts positives this week.

Faith --

I know what I am about to say is going to hurt you and I don't mean to...however...here it is...

Tell your oldest daughter that at 21 she needs to learn to be self-supporting and help her move out of your house.

If she is daddy's girl to the point where she feels she can argue with you like she's your equal then let daddy take care of her 24/7. Unless your daughter is mentally/physically unable to live on her own, evict her. You don't have to support her legally, she's of age.

Just my two cents....I know it's difficult to tell a child that they are draining you to the point where you can't help them anymore, but if her attitude is hurting you this much she needs to go. You have younger children who need the energy you're using up on this girl.

I care for you very much.

Every day I see cardiac patients who've been thru alot and some think they may not have long to live. They are very depressed and on antidepressants.

Are the pain meds and antidepressants from same doc? Find out and ask the doc who prescribed you the antidepressants if they could be working against one another.

I don't understand how you keep letting SNL in your life? Go to plan B for your health and recovery asap.

I repeat go to plan B.

Your exposure to him is dragging you further down. There is another dobson book called loving toughness for kids. Your d needs that.

And I personally believe that it is time to talk to an MD about this depression. Someone who specializes in it. You need to be medically managed at this point.

You are doing many positive things now but the constand contact with SNL is not helping ok? It is dragging you down.

I agree with the poster above. You can't expect anything decent from him at all. Quit projecting your wishes onto him. Give up. Give it to God. He may never become that man you married ever again. Very probably will not. I did it. I had to realize that. It is hard. But it's either you live or SNL gets more enabling. You have to stop this constant contact with him.

How many times do we have to say no more contact with SNL? Llfe is clearer when we get away from the WS's who are abusive emotionally or physically ok?

And please, do not take me in any way but a loving one. Your depression is very deep and a general practicioner may not be able to properly help you out of it. And a counselor may not be able to also. I have plenty of patients and friends who have gone to psychiatrists and they help in the horrible times. It will probably be only short lived you need to see one, but it is a matter of YOUR SURVIVAL RIGHT NOW.

And we care for you.

And we pray for you.

Do plan A for yourself. And do plan B to get away from your x (don't even write his name anymore) once and for all. Leave his control and his disrespect behind you forever. God's given you a new chance. It is dark right now, but you're just beginning a journey. It is always darkest right before dawn and the sun is barely rising on your new beginning now so don't give up.

Get to see a good psychiatrist asap. This will go hand in hand with everything else and hopefully this will rope that depression and tie it down.

Hope you are doing okay, and having a good week.

be content - as far as being okay, not really.

Peachy - What gets me upset, is I found out he spent over $530 on some video tapes. Notification was sent, and he told me today, they were christian tapes. I said, it must be nice to spend that money, and not have to worry about bills being paid. I basically stated, actions speak louder than money. I feel he is buying the kids off. Just like the dinner and gifts. Yeah, they can go to dad, cause he will give them money and hand it over. I have to say, sorry. I can't.

Why is it like this, that the wayward spouse, making so much money, which he does, and he stated to me and the lawyers and won't give me anything to feed the other kids in the family. He knows I am going to have a hard time. I am so sick of this crap. I am sick of his deceit and lies. I am sick of his not caring. I am sick of him, and I wished to God that he was never in my life. Yes, I am in pain, severe pain, and I hate this. I hate this man, I hate his actions. I hate his lies, his lies, and more lies. I hate how he spends money and sees me having a hard time. This mean, wicked, deceitful liar. Maybe one day, his nose will grow, and grow, and then he will have to have a sling to hold it up. I hate this mans actions. I hate myself, for falling in love with this man. I hate myself, for dating this man. I hate myself, for having kids with this man. I hate myself for giving my body and soul to this man, and then he throws me in the trash. I hate all of this.

I need to see a psychiatrist. But, I have no insurance coverage. And I already checked into welfare and such. All they will do is send me to a place in Detroit. And I don't want to go near Detroit. I want my life back to normalicy. I want my life back to knowing what the heck is going on. I want my life back to some organizational status. I really don't give a hoot about much. Seems my nose is spiraling downward. And it is getting worse. I quit counseling with the Samaritan counseling. I told my counselor today, that I can't afford it anymore. He understood. And he suggested, Catholic social services. I need professional help.

Yes, to get my x-husband out of my sight would be great. Probably the best thing for me. But I never had the chance to do this, he did plan A his way. He did plan B, his way. He did the divorce his way. I am paying for everything. I have an appt. to sign the paperwork, and get this over with. That will be a relief. I am going to ask my lawyer a ?. Anyways, going to take my pain meds, and such, need to get some good sleep. Not been sleeping well, except for the last 2 nights. They were pretty good. But not long enough. Seems like I am sprialing back to the beginning. Anyways, time to lay down, and read. Get some well deserved rest, and sleep.

I do enjoy my church. And as far as heart attacks, I know I am at risk now. I know, and am trying to get this out of my system. This affair, has put a big toll on my body. I have symptoms of deteriation, and at times, death would be really appreciated. Hearts of caring people take a lot of pain. This pain, is so severe, and I know it is worse than death. My fathers death, was bad enough, but to deal wtih my husbands betrayal, and lies, was so much worse. And the lies that continue, are so hard to deal with. When do they stop? When does the man you married, realize the pain and suffering they have caused? Life is not Fair?

To have and to hold God in my hands right now, is what I must do. I do for myself, not for anyone else. Otherwise, the kids would not have a home for them to live under.

Feeling much better tonight. Was able to eject my feelings, and get some anger out. I am a good woman. I am a loving woman. I was a good wife. I am a good mother. I love my kids, and family. I love my MIL and mother. My life was devoted to being a caregiver. And I am still caring, but more for myself, than anyone else.

Tomorrow, I sign the divorce papers, and you know what, it feels good. It is going to feel good to have this all behind. And to move on with my life without the hassles of being told, continously, that I didn't COOPERATE (according to him), I didn't listen, I didn't do this, I didn't do that. That is history, and now I am going to do for me. Had a good time today, with talking and going over issues. I feel great right now, and am seeking love with God.

Peachy - the rollercoaster is still going, the bunny batteries are still strong. So I expect some down days to come. But you know what, I can get through them, with help from all of you here, and with God.

Triggers are still being pushed on me, but some of the triggers don't care anymore. And the rest will eventually get there too. Just realizing that some of us, don't like to push buttons, and don't find pleasure in seeing their spouses get irritated.

Have any of you realized what the word COOPERATION

To have and to hold God in my hands right now, is what I must do. I do for myself, not for anyone else. Otherwise, the kids would not have a home for them to live under.

Feeling much better tonight. Was able to eject my feelings, and get some anger out. I am a good woman. I am a loving woman. I was a good wife. I am a good mother. I love my kids, and family. I love my MIL and mother. My life was devoted to being a caregiver. And I am still caring, but more for myself, than anyone else.

Tomorrow, I sign the divorce papers, and you know what, it feels good. It is going to feel good to have this all behind. And to move on with my life without the hassles of being told, continously, that I didn't COOPERATE (according to him), I didn't listen, I didn't do this, I didn't do that. That is history, and now I am going to do for me. Had a good time today, with talking and going over issues. I feel great right now, and am seeking love with God.

Peachy - the rollercoaster is still going, the bunny batteries are still strong. So I expect some down days to come. But you know what, I can get through them, with help from all of you here, and with God.

Triggers are still being pushed on me, but some of the triggers don't care anymore. And the rest will eventually get there too. Just realizing that some of us, don't like to push buttons, and don't find pleasure in seeing their spouses get irritated.

Have any of you realized what the word COOPERATION means: working together to get the same ending. Would be nice if spouses would use this word properly. I have been a cooperative spouse, for most of my life. Doing, and being there for my husband. There were times, when I felt demeaned, and not thought of in a wifely way. And I am sure my husband felt the same in a husbandry way too. But cooperation, is working to get the same ending that both want. So you could say, that my husband didn't cooperate with me. But did I use the word cooperate? NO! Cause he was fighting me all the way. But I was told so many times that I did not cooperate with him. So now, if he would like to put his definition of cooperation down here, in Marraige Builders, then we could find his definition. Maybe he sees a different definition.

I came upon this word today, and it triggered a response in my reading. I thought about it, and thought about the meaning of the word. So I decided to find the exact definition, and decided that what I was reading was again, use of words to control. My My, words have a way of humoring, and a way of destroying others. Some words, can be exaggerated, and some words can be belittling. Smart humans, know what they are doing, and do hurt others willingly. For the ones who use words to kill the spirit of others, I will pray for them. For those who do it unconsciously, we will still pray for them, and I am sure they will change their words. God looks at all our actions, and words. God sees all that is interacted between humans, and God knows when one is being a liar, and when one is being radically honest.

Wouldn't it be great, if each time we sinned in Gods eyes, he would tap our shoulder, to remind us of our mistakes, and therefore, we could take back what we said or did, and ask for forgiveness right at that moment, to those we hurt. But God did not create such a world of truthfullness. Satan is always there ready to bounce on us, and create sin.

I am sorry for all I did in my marriage, and in my family. God knows that I am working on being a better person. God knows, that I love him and fellowship with others seeking to have God in their lives too.

Tonight I feel good, and ready to move on. Thank you.

Hi Faith4me,

You said:
"Peachy - the rollercoaster is still going, the bunny batteries are still strong. So I expect some down days to come. But you know what, I can get through them, with help from all of you here, and with God."

Yes, you CAN get through them--we knew that--now you are starting to know that too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You said:
"For the ones who use words to kill the spirit of others, I will pray for them. For those who do it unconsciously, we will still pray for them"

Good idea Faith4me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You said:
"Tonight I feel good, and ready to move on."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care Faith4me, keep taking care