I came to this board in support of some dear friends that I have met on the EN board. I never dreamed I'd be contemplating making the move myself. After all, Kasey has been working very hard on recovery, etc. - everything EXCEPT FS needs. Instead, he has chosen activities to clear the way for me to make more, entirely missing the point. I still feel exploited. I still feel as though if I have a personal crash in my work-horse-ways, we are going to lose everything because everything depends upon me.

Things have been rapidly coming to a head, with Kasey cycling pretty bad, to the point that today, he sent out e-mail correspondence to a bunch of people we knew, detailing our financial situation down to every single bill we have. He doesn't get that this is PRIVATE information, and I am embarrassed at the lack of protection he gives me and this family.

I've called for help. I may leave and retire into a Plan B over this. My Plan B will probably stipulate that I cannot reconcile with him until he is gainfully employed and earning at least 50% of our household expenses.

How do I maintain my faith, and avoid the fear trap at this point in my life? This is probably only the second time in my life I've seriously contemplated leaving. The first time, he was controlling, dominating, and cycling madly on the angry manic side. Guess what? He's baaaaccccck! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

KaylaAndy,

I don't really post anymore and even lurking is down to once in a great while.
I so understand what you're feeling and why you feel the need to make a move to have your circumstances change, it's very brave of you even though initally you know it will be hard. Taking that first step out of the airplane always is.
Just keep in mind that ultimately you are doing this for the good of yourself, your son and yes, even Kasey.
Wishing you well and wishing you a speedy and good outcome to all of this.

What you describe is traditionally known as a "breadwinner" household... where one spouse works and the other doesn't. The Traditional American Dream Family. Welcome to what it feels like to be the man in such a household. Everything depends solely on your income winning ability...

I don't say this to be harsh or come across as anything other than... if most married men were to make your demand to their wives... they'd get laughed at. Earn at least 50% of the household expenses or I'm leaving! (chuckles at the image)

That he's manic (you implied manic depressive) is rough. You need to work on that. But, if he's doing everything else except FS... c'mon! Give the man a break.

<small>[ April 25, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Lyxa ]</small>

Lyxa, I don't know whether to scream, cry, or laugh. You're right - 50 years ago, a man making these kinds of demands on the wife would have been taken as totally absurd. We're not in 1950 anymore. I have never been afforded the privilege of being a SAHM in a culture where the leaders of our church very much frown on mothers working when their husbands are physically capable of doing the work. I know you have heard this very strongly, but never so forcefully as in 1986 at a special meeting for parents - were you married back then? I was so upset by that talk, I had to go to one of the elders of the Church and get a special blessing, because I felt so under condemnation. I was assured by the Elder that the Lord knew what I was going through, and my special situation.

I struggle because I feel very very strongly that if I went to Plan B, and Kasey had to take care of his responsibilities, he'd have the breakthrough he needs. Do you know what it's like to know that in some part, my past competencies have caused him to grow lax in his discipline of himself, and to think that I'll come through in any financial crisis, and he can avoid the personal growth he's going to have to go through in order to be the man God created him to be.

He's not taking care of ALL my needs. My son is constantly walking around shell-shocked because of the boomarang effect that the bi-polar has on his dad's behavior. Last night, Kasey badgered our son to swallow his allergy medicine while our son was crying - I mean, he would not back off long enough to let son get his composure and swallow without choking. The evil feeling in our home is enough to choke anyone. It always gets pretty thick when Kasey's cycling - and he hasn't done this for a very very long time - 1996, April 21st to be exact. And I left him for six months - it took that long for the cycling to level out to where I felt safe living with him. I don't know what beyond our financial crisis has done this, but I know one thing - Kasey HAS GOT to get through this wall, or it will destroy our marriage.

Update: Sometimes I get all used up, and I'm at the end of my rope. Most of the time, the thing that puts me there the fastest is my unmet FS need.

There are times when the manic swings cycle around and I feel pummelled extra hard by life, especially when money is short and resources are fast on the drain. I forget that there is a calm after the storm - it feels like this manic h*ll will never end. He didn't sign up for the disease, and there are times I swear he's oblivious to the damage.

This weekend I rallied the wagons - called my church ministers, received special blessings from one, who came over to my home, blessed each of us, including Kasey, and blessed our home to be a safe haven again.

Kasey actually was starting to slow down on the cycling by the time I got home from work on Friday - but my stress levels didn't drop until after one of our ministers had been here. Today, he told me he had talked personally with the other minister at length, focusing on repenting, forgiving, and loving.

I still have an unmet need for Financial Support. But like my minister pointed out, I had been blessed with certain educational and life experiences that made me strong enough to live without that need being met, and even live happily most of the time. This is the same minister who once told me that God would hold me blameless if I did follow through and divorce my husband (I don't go there often - it's happened twice this year, but before that, it was seven years ago, last week when I left him for quite some time); but that I would be blessed and strengthened if I stayed.

Mental illness is a tough disease to grapple with. In the best of circumstances, we can still run out of fuel and all family members suffer. In the worst of circumstances, the most loving thing we can do is save our children and run. In the middle of the crisis, I don't know which circumstance I have.

Thank you for your love and support.

Love, Kayla

Ah, my dear sister/friend,

I am so sorry--somehow I missed this crisis post this Friday...probably because I was in court all day with my own issues! But, I'm here now and I've decided to respond to you "in public" rather than just over email--okay?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KaylaAndy:
<strong>Lyxa, I don't know whether to scream, cry, or laugh. You're right - 50 years ago, a man making these kinds of demands on the wife would have been taken as totally absurd. We're not in 1950 anymore. I have never been afforded the privilege of being a SAHM in a culture where the leaders of our church very much frown on mothers working when their husbands are physically capable of doing the work.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah, my dear sister/friend, herein lies the problem. First, you should probably scream and cry and laugh--but if you do all three at once you will look crazy (heehee).

You need to SCREAM because it really is so frustrating and hard and such a burden to really be the only responsible party in a marriage partnership. I'm not disrespecting Kasey here, but one fellow family-member to another, it is HORRIBLY hard to feel the full weight of the entire family ON YOU. Sometimes it feels like it crushes you. So, I say drive down the freeway, put in some Queen, roll down your windows, and SCREAM.

You need to CRY because you want a partner who can occasionally (just every now and then) support YOU and let you put it all down and carry the load for you for just a little while. You need to cry because in your heart, you want the marriage and family that your church doctrine says is proper: father is the LEADER, mom is the helpmeet, and children are a blessing from God. You need to cry because your heart longs for someone who would help you with YOUR issues the way you have helped Kasey with his. It's not to say he hasn't--don't get me wrong--but rather that right now he is not capable of it.

And you need to LAUGH because of the obsurdity of it all. It's NUTS!! Who would choose to live like this?? It's all goofed up and a gigantic mess, and sometimes in a mess like this the best thing you can do is laugh, grab some marshmellows and jump in and have fun. Okay, so it's not "normal" and it's not quite right according to church and society standards (whatever they are!)--it's YOU and KASEY and your family and it is just the way it is! It's outlandish and it's FUNNY--so laugh. Not that hysterical laugh either...that "oh forget it, it's just funny and I'm going to laugh at myself" laugh.

Finally, I know the church frowns on wives working when the husbands are physically capable, but I think you've hit the nail on the head there girl. Kasey's body may be strong enough to physically sustain work/labor, but his mind is not in a place to dependably sustain "work". It is an unfortunate truth of bipolar. Some days my stbxH can work 20 hours a day and get so much done it's SCARY. I've NEVER seen anyone work like that before EVER. Other days, he can't get out of bed...literally can not. And you just can't sustain a career with on/off days like that. Love 'em for who they are...but consistent breadwinners is not who they are.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I was assured by the Elder that the Lord knew what I was going through, and my special situation.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad to hear that Elder had the wisdom of the Lord to tell you that God knew your special situation. Kayla, I believe firmly that God's perfect plan is: father is the leader, mom is helpmeet, children are a blessing...HOWEVER, thankfully, God realizes WE are not perfect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> In your situation, I truly believe God gives you special anointing for the extra burden you choose to bear--willing and lovingly for the sake of yourself, your husband and your family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I struggle because I feel very very strongly that if I went to Plan B, and Kasey had to take care of his responsibilities, he'd have the breakthrough he needs. Do you know what it's like to know that in some part, my past competencies have caused him to grow lax in his discipline of himself, and to think that I'll come through in any financial crisis, and he can avoid the personal growth he's going to have to go through in order to be the man God created him to be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kayla, I need to lovingly warn you here. If you were to make the choice to go into Plan B and "make" Kasey take care of his own responsibilities does not mean that he would do that! Let me give you an example. I also felt strongly that if I went into Plan B and my stbxH was responsible to either recover or not, he would hit bottom quicker and go to recovery on his own--thus it would be a true recovery vs. just going to meeting to shut me up...with me so far? Well, I did what was most beneficial for me and drew my boundary at "in order to be with me, sexual addiction, bipolar, BPD, and making OUR relationship MUTUAL all have to be sincerely addressed"--Plan B until they are. My stbxH chose to run away from his responsibilities--and he's running even further by refusing to support his children!!

Kayla, what I'm saying is that just because you STOP taking care of his financial responsibilities does not mean he will START. He has to make that decision BY HIMSELF!! Maybe, rather than saying, "meet this financial responsibility or I'm going to Plan B", a more accurate response would be "what are you willing and able to do to meet this financial responsibility which is causing me pain? what plan can there be for movement toward growth and greater personal responsibility?"

I have to be honest with ya, chick. I have some faith in Kasey. I truly believe he loves you and I truly believe he wrestles with is own recovery and does a lot of his own work on himself. So many are unwilling to even TRY to recover! Give him a little faith and see what he is willing to do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He's not taking care of ALL my needs. My son is constantly walking around shell-shocked because of the boomarang effect that the bi-polar has on his dad's behavior. Last night, Kasey badgered our son to swallow his allergy medicine while our son was crying - I mean, he would not back off long enough to let son get his composure and swallow without choking. The evil feeling in our home is enough to choke anyone. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BOY!! Do I hear you on this one! I hate that feeling of being emotionally shell-shocked...ripped to shreds one minute and wanting to hug and be "lovey" the next minute (and I don't mean sex, I mean hates you at 9:01 and loves you at 9:03). It's indescribable to someone who hasn't been through it, but the bouncing thoughts and the jumping down your throat over the smallest infraction and the staying up all night and the feeling of trying to emotionally HIDE in your own home...it's exhausting. It does feel like an evil presence in your home--like the air is thick with anger. It's like emotional whiplash, and as soon as your head snaps into place from the first one, BOOM here comes another!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> It always gets pretty thick when Kasey's cycling - and he hasn't done this for a very very long time - 1996, April 21st to be exact. And I left him for six months - it took that long for the cycling to level out to where I felt safe living with him. I don't know what beyond our financial crisis has done this, but I know one thing - Kasey HAS GOT to get through this wall, or it will destroy our marriage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmmm...I don't know whether to laugh or cry. On the one hand, my first thought was, "MY GOD!! It's been seven years since his last cycle!! How did he DO that?? How is that possible?? That's GREAT!!! What are you complaining about?" (Nothing personal, Kayla.) My stbxH cycles...oh...I'd say weekly or every other week. He's productive manic for several days (up all night for 3 days straight, but getting a LOT done)...then over-the-edge manic for about a week (bouncing, screaming, raging, not making sense, destructive--just nutty!)...then depressed/sick for about 3 or 4 days (stays in bed, has "fevers" because his body just can't BE manic for almost 2 weeks anymore, can't get anything done, sees no point in continuing, hates his work/boss/clients/me). It is EXHAUSTING!! The best part right now is that he takes a pill and says it's "under control"--he doesn't even SEE his cycles, much less the damage that his cycling does to his family, his work, his boss, his customers...or anyone. He doesn't see it! So OUCH, I'm sorry to say that my first thought was a little twinge of jealousy! SEVEN YEARS...that sounds AWESOME!

Thankfully, my very SECOND thought was: "Boy, do I totally understand about not feeling safe and needing to break through that wall!!" There's a touch of a tone of desperation in your voice--as if you are at your wit's end trying to figure out how to fully express to Kasey what his current cycling is doing to you (and to the kids). He has GOT to stop, and it's SERIOUS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Mental illness is a tough disease to grapple with. In the best of circumstances, we can still run out of fuel and all family members suffer. In the worst of circumstances, the most loving thing we can do is save our children and run. In the middle of the crisis, I don't know which circumstance I have. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, ma'am, it SURE IS!! It is a lifelong struggle for both the person with the illness AND their family--and that even includes ex-spouses who save the children and run. I think you've said something really wise though, mon chere: even in the best circumstances we can run out of fuel and suffer. I wonder if this isn't the case for you. You gave, and gave, and gave until your fuel was used up...then lack of FS was added to the pile...then add the match of cycling and it was a huge bonfire. Those of us in relationships with mentally ill family-members have a DUTY TO THEM to take generous care of ourselves so we can be useful for them. We are there to solve their problems, but what we do does require extra physical, emotional, and spiritual stamina--and we will not be able to run the entire race if we don't care for ourselves. Hey, BTW, in case you're wondering, I'm preaching to the choir here too, because I tend to need to hear this message myself! But my lovely Miss Kayla, you need and deserve a wonderous, relaxing break!

Even Psalms 23 says it: "The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want...HE MAKES ME LIE DOWN IN GREEN PASTURES--HE LEADS ME BESIDE STILL WATERS--HE RESTORES MY SOUL..." God is our Shepherd there chick, and I think He just MADE you lay down in a lush green pasture there for a while. Soooo...enjoy the fresh grass and little babbling brook, and restore your soul.

Love ya! {{{{{{{{{{Kayla}}}}}}}}}} I'm glad you're doing a bit better!!

CJ

We were just discussing something like this last night at church..

Our Pastor called it "In home Abandonment" and he has admoninshed men for this in our church. these men were also asked to come before the Session,
and refused to go..

The church supported a seperation..until they began to make changes..if they refused to get a job and support their family, the church supported the decision to divorce--

is it what they wanted to happen?

No, they wanted to see them take responsibility for their family, but they refused to do that..so when divorce was filed..they supported that decision..

----------

Now, I have to say something concerning what Kasey did, he reached out to others letting them know of your financial situation..please don't be ashamed or embarassed by this...as God uses these things to humble us..and work on our breaking our pride to ask for help..

you never know how God will work in the hearts of others if they know a brother and sister are struggling--God may just put it on the heart of someone to reach out and help, someone else may know of a job opening and could help in that area as well..

Just know it takes a LOT of humility for him to reach out and share your financial struggles with others..but God can use that for His Glory..

The God I know and Love..works through a broken and humble spirit..and from what you are saying
is where your H is at..a broken and humble spirit
before God..saying.."GOD, This is what is going on..I can't handle this alone, Please HELP!!"

So look at God's word..and see that HE is WORKING
but it's in HIS TIME..Not ours..He has to get us to our breaking point..so that He can work--

We have to hit rock bottom where we have no pride
and can acknowledge that God is the only way out of where we are..

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 09:04 AM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>