OK when does the WS deserve my friendship... I have been divorced since October - and believe me leading up to that divorce has not been pretty - Alot of stuff that happened I believe was cruel - but you know what I am still here - not overjoyed but really I am doing ok... But you know what he wants to be my best friend - if we are friends then he will feel better and justified in what he did - kind of easing his guilt I think... And most of me wants him to suffer like he has made me suffer... I don't think I have forgiven him... Lets see - he completely devestated me and my girls, left us - and not only that but he left me living next door to the woman that he - may have had the affair with - or had a second affair with - if nothing else it was still hot and heavy phone conversations on the cell phone for months and months - I still am not sure what to believe as far as she goes.. But the simple fact is that she lives next door - and a couple of nights ago she called me on the phone and went off on me - telling me that someone I know told her sister that she had an affair with my husband - which wasn't the case - But you know what I told her - that whether she slept with him or not - she was still wrong - calling my husband on the cell phone and calling him five times in one afternoon - calling him hun and asking him to hook up.... ---She told me to watch my back... Whatever that means.... I just feel that I am trying to live in my house - the fact that she is next door is a constant reminder... I don't want to be friends with him - it hurts me to much... I just want everything to go away and have my life return to normal...

Does that happen??? Will I be able to be friends with him someday??? Does he even deserve me to be his friend??? Is that for me to decide??? I just don't know....I just want to be able to move on - but does that require me forgiving him and accepting that I did the best I could to save this marriage??? I just feel somedays that I wasn't good enough for him - will I ever be good enough for anyone else???? Does anyone else feel this way???

okay, First of all stop beating yourself up...

No, you don't have to be best of friends with him..you don't even have to be friends with him..

but you do have to co-parent with him..so working through the anger and hurt will help in that area..

Not sure where you are spiritually, but I will post in accordance w/ what my beliefs are in that area..

Yes, he screwed up..He sinned..now, look in the mirror...are you also a sinner? In 'God's' eyes are his sins worse than yours? Can God forgive you
your sins? If He can...then why can't you forgive him? Do you want to pay for Your sins? or Did Jesus Die to pay for them for you? And did Jesus also die to pay for your ex-husbands sins?

hmmmm...something to think about..

Now, forgiving him what he did does not mean you agree with what he did..it means you acknowledge he can never pay for the hurt he has caused you..
and accept that He has to go before God just as you do..for payment of your sins..

You need to let God be God..and let Him deal w/ your ex-husbands heart..about his actions..and your neighbors actions..

And yes, in order for you to move on...you need to accept that you did all you can to save your marriage...and your ex made the choices he did all on his own...

Thorned Rose - Am I beating myself up??? Is that what my problem is - I still simply cannot let go of the fact that he did this to me... I am working with my counselor - trying to sort through the huge lump of hurt I have ... My counselors observation... But I do need to forgive not accept what he did but forgive - and you are again right that he made the choices on his own - I did not make him have an affair - even though he tends to put much of the blame on me... I will let him face god in the end... And I am going to go with the non friends thing but coparent... Sounds good - thank you...

Maw64:

My exW also wanted / wants what your ex wants: friendship from me.
I also came to the same conclusion as you, that she wants it as a symbol of forgiveness from me. She will not come out and tell me in as much words, that she was really sorry about what she did, but it kinda comes out in drips & drabs- once, in conversation she said “ I was so stupid then & went about things all in the wrong way “, and some more stuff like that. It’s as if now that the moment has passed and we’re divorced & all, she can say such things without it sounding like an apology. (she never felt that she needed to apologize to me).

Friendship? That’s up to you- I tried it for a while. It didn’t work for me, because I could not be near her, or hug her, without it evoking really strong feelings for her, which would linger for days, weeks. Apparently she did not feel the same, so it was OK by her. So for that reason, I withdrew from that whole cycle, by cutting contact.

On a more cerebral level, I found it hard to be her “friend” while she continued to see the OM, ( living with GF +3 kids), and compromising herself in that way. She even told me recently she does not believe in God the way she used to anymore – all this I think just to justify the ongoing relationship with this [censored], so she has no guilty conscience about it.

Has your exH told you enough to reassure you he is a person you would want to be friends with? If he were not your exH, would you still want to be friends with him? Could you stand being around him, and yet not being intimately close with him as you may or may not want to be? These are questions I asked myself, and I still have difficulty with the fact that we are over. No contact helps me deal with it though. There’s nothing worse than being reminded by someone that rejected you, that you’re still being rejected. (in a way). I had to be honest with myself and admit that the only reason I wanted to be around her, was because I still loved her. (yeah, in spite of it all). Friendship with her would never be enough for me. She also has a kind of attitude now that she is not accountable to anyone for her behavior or actions, and this is repulsive to me. I recognize that a great part of this is her not having dealt properly with all that has happened, i.e. our problems, as well as her guilt over A’s. This will not go away overnight, I realize, and I know this is a flaw I cannot overlook. See how much conflict there still is? Your conflict seems to be different: more a case if forgiveness needs to go that far. It doesn’t. You may forgive him without having to invite him into your life if you do not wish to. That having been said, I would not pay heed to a moronic slut neighbor, or popular opinion to help with my decision. If you wish to welcome him in, go for it. You control that door, and you can open & close it just as easily.

These are just some of my ramblings—hope some of it helps.

muzohead

Muzohead - OK with you I can relate... I think that I would be friends with him - if he hadn't cheated and lied and still to this day continues to lie.... I sometimes wonder what is up with him...When I am nice to him - he is nice and the wonderful father that he should be - but if I give him crap - he looses it and it out of control... And yes I still love him - I love the person he used to be not the person that he has become - He may still be the life of the party and everyone may say what a wonderful guy he is - but I know the truth... I think that by me not talking to him it actually helps me deal better with things.. But then sadly I miss him - I could actually not see him at all - and really I don't have to talk much to him - I mean my girls are 10 and 13 and he really hasn't been all that involved anyways - he takes them on Friday nights only - and that also is sad to me - but I am decided that - that is not my problem either - I cannot force him to want to be with them more - or vice versa... As for the moronic **** next door you are correct - I put up a fence and she was none to happy about it... To bad - she is telling me to watch my back - I still to this day have not done anything wrong as far as she is concerned - she was my friend and she also betrayed me - I pray for the moving van to come... Daily....Now my ex says that he is sorry - it is all his fault -but truly I don't think he means that - his famous line is - " I deserve to be happy don't I?" and yes by all means he does - but at this expense to his family - without ever really trying anything to repair it... but that is history - I know it is over forever - he has told me he despises me, I do nothing for him - then turns around and tells the kids he has love for me..... I need to officially totally let go....... Forever...

I had to tell my ex that I didn't want to be friends with her. I said that I would not associate with anyone else that had made the repeated decisions that she has made. I would not associtae with anyone else that tore their family apart. I said that I would treat her cordially as she deserved due to the fact that she was my boys mother. However, I felt no desire nor obligation to be friendly towards her.

She had wanted us to by buddies. So that I could give her all the support and fix things, but she would not be obligated to me and my boys at all.

I just try to treat her nicely in as limited a way as I have to to ensure that we each know what is going on with our boys. Other than that I don't discuss or deal with her at all.

If it weren't for my boys. I would have spoken to her for the last time a long time ago.

Formerly Confused - Well I wish I could do the same - I try to not talk to him - then some revelation comes about or something happens that I think he should know - so I will talk to him... But you know what - he only wants to talk if I am that buddy - and that isn't happening - so my new goal is to try not to talk to him at all... Wish me luck...

maw, your x sounds so much like my stbx with all that "don't you want me to be happy" crap...sure, we'll all smile for you while the world we knew blows apart...long as you're "happy"!!! Sorry, feeling just a bit on the bitter side tonight, it will pass.

I agree, the less contact the better. I am so depressed after just a few minutes of conversation with H, it takes hours or the whole day to recover. And having to deal with minor children still at home leaves no way to completely cut off contact, so it's hard.

The "buddy", can't we be "friends" bit just amazes me. When my stbxh first mentioned divorce, he said that he would still want to send me cards, take me out on my birthday, etc.
Indeed, the day he left town to start the new "era" in his life with a new job in a town out-of-state, (with OW by his side) he asked if he could send me a card every now and then. Nope. No thanks. Can't handle that.

Like I said, I'm feeling just a little bitter tonight, as I contemplate having to leave my house and home within the next couple of months, and all that entails. Friends??-I don't think so.

Broken X 3 - Ok so maybe I am a little bitter also... It is funny my ex said to me the other day and I quote - I want to be friends with you and if we are never friends it is going to be all your fault - DUH - why should I be his friend - I am actually feeling much better today - like I don't even feel the need to talk to him... You are lucky in a way that he moved out of state.... But I have been thinking there is really no reason to talk to my ex at all - my girls can talk to him - they only see him on Fridays - so he picks them up Friday night and drops them off on Saturday afternoon - there doesn't need to be any contact from me... So even if I feel the need to speak to him - NOPE I am not gonna let it happen because I realize it is only hurting me....It may make him feel better not communicating with me but in the long run it is gonna make me feel better on the whole - I think... I am sorry to hear about you maybe having to sell your house - that is horrible - but maybe it will be a new beginning for you... I don't have to buy my ex out until my youngest who is in 4th grade graduates... So I have like 8 years - so I am going to just get through those eight years and deal with it then... I am hoping that you are feeling better today... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I find it easier not to be friends with my STBXH. Mostly because, to him, being friends means me listening to him complain about money, work, his crappy apartment etc. I figure OW wanted him so badly -- that's her job now. I have same-sex friends and family that I share my daily activities with. The hard part for me is the children. Mine are 3.5 months and 3 years old. It's tough not to share the daily joys and information about them with STBXH but I figure that the children have two families now and we will all have to get used to that. I see WH daily and have told him that maybe sometime in the far future we can be friends - but that extended contact with him now "makes me want to tell him how I really feel about him, and it's not very nice." As long as he is still seeing OW and spending time with her + my children, I don't see how I could be friends with him. I wouldn't want to be friends with any person who did what he did to his wife and family.

I find it easier not to be friends with my STBXH. Mostly because, to him, being friends means me listening to him complain about money, work, his crappy apartment etc. I figure OW wanted him so badly -- that's her job now. I have same-sex friends and family that I share my daily activities with. The hard part for me is the children. Mine are 3.5 months and 3 years old. It's tough not to share the daily joys and information about them with STBXH but I figure that the children have two families now and we will all have to get used to that. I see WH daily and have told him that maybe sometime in the far future we can be friends - but that extended contact with him now "makes me want to tell him how I really feel about him, and it's not very nice." As long as he is still seeing OW and spending time with her + my children, I don't see how I could be friends with him. I wouldn't want to be friends with any person who did what he did to his wife and family.

DueinJan, Wow I give you a lot of credit you must be very strong to be able to see him on a daily basis - and not want to kill... It is hard enough having little children with two people let alone one - but I know what you mean about in the future maybe friends.. I mean I did love this man and I will probably always love him - but not who he is now.. The man that I loved would never have done this to his family.... But I have been feeling much better today... Which is good for me... It makes things easier on my children also if I am in a good mood -

Thank you MAW64 for the compliment. Strength is not a choice for me - it's a necessity. I'd like to run away but can't, and lately I am really feeling better about life.

When I talk about future friendship with my WH - I don't think that I will want to hang out with him and go bike riding and hiking and all the things we used to do...that would be too hard, right? I'm going to find someone else to do those things with or do them myself with my children after they get a little older. I mean it more in that we could talk easier and more completely and go to the same school events and sit together. More - friendship for the comfort of our children and the convenience of ourselves than a real friendship. My husband gave up a true friendship with me when he betrayed me, lied to me, abandoned me and hurt me repeatedly. He selected another to be his friend. If he misses aspects of our friendship, well then, I'm glad. It's difficult for one person to fill someone else's every need. I'm going to let the OW try. I am not going to help out by providing him with a true friendship.

Due in Jan - I don't blame you - that is why I threw up this topic - do they deserve our friendship... It makes my ex feel so much better when I don't talk to him or if I am nice - and that freaks me out because I don't want him to feel better you know - I want him to feel at least one ounce of what I have felt... But I have come to the conclusion that by me trying to hurt him or make him feel hurt - in all actuality I am hurting myself more... And you are right - going to activities is somewhat hard - it makes it hard on the other child that is with the other parent - you know where to sit - I have sat near my ex at dance competitions but even that I am going to try to avoid... I have decided that I have been with him all of my adult life so far actually half of my life.. And I need to look forward - it is to soon for a serious relationship but someday I hope to have one again... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I've been thinking about your post maw64, and contemplating how I would react if my H were to ask me to be "friends". And I still don't have a straight answer on that one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (yes, even after all he's done, I cannot even come to a definite NO answer!).

I"ve always thought that should H and I D (which I have started), I would ideally love it if he and I could be friendLY to each other. BIG difference from friends... that's for sure!

Just like dueinjan said, for the sake of the kids, it would be nice.

Shoot... even for visitations, I would have liked it if he could have come HERE to my house for them! But, circumstances as they are (his bail conditions stating he's to have no contact or association with me whatsoever), won't allow for that. Oh well!

Then the babble back portion of my brain (thanks Orchid! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) is thinking you should just agree with your H and say, "Okay, let's be friends". And then let it go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm glad to hear you're feeling better today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

Topie - Well thank you - friends and just let it go - that would probably work - I to after all he has done don't hate him... I think if I did hate him it wouldn't hurt me to be friends with him but because I still care and was very devestated - friends is out of the question for me for now...I have been working on that all week - Telling myself - ok you are not going to talk to him - and ok so far so good - hopefully my girls do not come home and tell me about some other girl he was on the phone with - I am thinking that is usually what gets me going ... I am better off just not knowing anything - You sound better - I read your thread about talking to your husband - that I am sure was a huge step for you ... I keep wanting time to like go ahead like two years - so I can see if I am finally gonna be happy again....