Most people stay divorced from each other after it final, than get back together anyhow. Also, most people divorce once they are seperated anyhow. If you know in your heart its over does it really and truly matter. Noone is going to hell for dating during divorce proceedings.
I don't understand this at all. What are you saying? That people divorce and then get back together/ But then you say if it is over it is over. I am confused.

Are you willing to let your life fade away waiting, when there could be another to make you happy or happier slip by? Why would you do that. If I would not have gone out with my current fiance, I would have missed her more than likely. My soulmate and my BEST FRIEND! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> [/QB][/QUOTE]

What I meant to say...I was confusing, is that most people who separate end up divorced anyhow. Especially if the separation was mutual......why not date if the odds lean heavily to its over. Also, most people who go through with a divorce Do not get remarried to one another. There....is that more clear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

but I can tell you I don't think I will be getting married again... This divorce almost killed me for sure.... I don't think I could ever go through it again...
Your approach is that you WILL get divorced if you were to marry again. Pretty negative.

Not to say you should or should't get married again. But that shouldyour goal should be

Most people going through a tough situation will be wary of doing it again. But hopefully you learned something about relationships from your marriage and from this website and all the education you have done since that you could do a better job in a relationship.

why not date if the odds lean heavily to its over.
But why date just because it is over?

If I would not have gone out with my current fiance, I would have missed her more than likely. My soulmate and my BEST FRIEND!
So she is the ONLY person you could be happy with and she is the ONLY reason you are happy?

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

why not date if the odds lean heavily to its over.

Because you respect your marriage and want time to heal, because you shouldn't rely on another person to make you happy, and because unlikely odds pay huge dividends.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lyxa:
<strong>Should they get back together, I will simply walk away and turn my interests and energy into making friends with other women. Or I'll go back to my 18 hour work days. ...I just want to keep things light and bright.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So easy to say. So hard to do.

Once you open the door to even the possibility of a relationship, it's amazing how rapidly things can progress. It took me all of two months to fall head over heels "in love" with a rather wonderful woman, without going on a single "date" and without even receiving any encouragement from her. I thought that remaining within the limits of normal social interactions would serve as an effective governor on my level of emotional involvement. I was wrong.

In hindsight, I am very, very glad that I set up such strict protective boundaries for myself during the time between my wife's desertion and the granting of her divorce (more than two years later). Not only can I say with complete confidence that my behavior during that period was above reproach, but I can also be confident that my current situation does not involve the hazards of a rebound relationship. By the time I crawled out of my hole, I had become quite comfortable living by and with myself, and even now, when I can have no confidence that this new "relationship" has any real chance of growing into anything, I have no sense of desperation since I know that I am fully capable of living a fulfilling life on my own.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kimmy2:
<strong>Just because a judge decides to take a 2:00 break and go play golf on Friday and doesn't sign my paper until the following Monday, I don't think this makes any difference in the end of the marriage. My WH broke the covenant of our marriage in June, 2002, without me knowing (if you consider an EA as adultery, then it happened before then). I consider my marriage over as of Jan 2003 when I finally realized I was better off living on my own.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is so easy to justify our actions to ourselves, isn't it? But as a Christian I am called upon to "abstain from all appearance of evil". And I have a hard time understanding how getting involved with someone other than my spouse just because I feel that my marriage is over is qualitatively any different from having an affair. Many, many affairs begin with just that sort of rationalization.

Chris - OK well I am glad that you have divorced her - basically I am thinking that you deserve better.. A cousin of mine always tells me that when I am ready he will be there - I am hoping this is true - I think after being in a relationship when you give 100% of your heart and soul and then have it crushed and twisted and to the point of not knowing what to believe or what or why it happened - it takes a long - long time to be able to trust someone again...I am not sure when and if I will be able to open my heart fully to someone again and risk that hurt... So I can relate to you not wanting a relationship... I am thinking that some casual dating would be good though - to let you enjoy yourself in the adult world - instead of just children, work and housework - housework by yourself is a job in itself... I tend to wonder am I always going to feel like such a loser - that this happened to me...??? This person that I am seeing it is more like I am helping him then him helping me and like I said I am ok with that - I consider this relationship safe - and you know what if it goes to something more - than fine - I am ok with that to - but I am not really looking for it to right now...

So I can relate to you not wanting a relationship
I didn't say I don't want a relationship, just that I am not actively looking for or pursuing one.

I am thinking that some casual dating would be good though
Absolutely!

I tend to wonder am I always going to feel like such a loser - that this happened to me...???
Everyone does that and everyone needs to realize that it is YOU that makes yourself not a loser. Getting involved with someone before that is understood may confuse the issue, not make it better.

Chris,

You sure seem to be hung up on this issue.

The truth of the matter is that if one wants to date,then they should and can date. Your reasoning is silly. There are NO SHOULDS. If dating helps to make someone happy, then I think it is absolutely ridiculous to jump from that thought to the thought that you shouldn't get your happiness from someone else. You keep trying to make that leap in thought.

That is like saying that you shouldn't get your happiness from keeping fit, so do not work out.
Or you should not get your happiness from your work, so do not go to work.

Dating is and can be a very useful tool to help you move through the process. It really can help to show you that there are MILLIONS of available people in the world looking for a relationship, that would treat you right.

There is nothing wrong with dating. When I see someone on this site who decides to start dating, I am very happy because I know this is when they start to see that they ARE ok, and that there is nothing wrong with them right now.
They have just bought into the reasoning of the WS that there is something wrong with them.

Also, the WS comes back much faster if you are dating. This is fact. Happpens all the time. It is easier to get a WS back if you start dating.
(I did not make up this rule, just observe it again and again)

If you are ok with not dating, then do not date.
I think you are trying to put guilt on some of these people who have made a decision to start dating. Why not be glad that they seem to be happier that they want to move on? Why do you try to bring them down?

It is ok to date, and it is ok to be happy that you have found someone that you are happy with. It can and does enhance your happiness.

The facts show that the quicker you show the WS that you are moving on, the faster and stronger they come back. Not only that, if you show them that you can and will move on... then when they do come back, there suddenly is no withdrawal, suddenly no more fog, suddenly they have loved you all the time.. etc....etc.... The hard part is to get people to see that.

Keep moving forward,

that last post was so full of backwards logic, its hilarious.

First: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The truth of the matter is that if one wants to date,then they should and can date.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Truth? whose truth? your truth? my truth? there is no such universal agreement on what is true and what is not true. truths are nothing more than an opinion that you don't want to be challenged on.

Second: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Also, the WS comes back much faster if you are dating. This is fact. Happpens all the time. It is easier to get a WS back if you start dating.
(I did not make up this rule, just observe it again and again) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and how many observations do you have? enough to be statistically valid for what size population?

There are several to many examples of people here that had just the opposite experience.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is nothing wrong with dating. When I see someone on this site who decides to start dating, I am very happy because I know this is when they start to see that they ARE ok, and that there is nothing wrong with them right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">so, a co-dependent who needs a relationship to validate oneself has nothing wrong with them? not according to M. Scott Peck in his book, The Road Less Travelled he argues against getting right into another relationship without becoming an independent person yourself.

And i really don't believe that you think that the single decision of wanting to date is a good solid criteria for establishing "being OK"

you need more studying on psych concepts

wiftty

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

Why are you so intent on not reading what I have posted?
if one wants to date,then they should and can date. There are NO SHOULDS.
If that's not circle logic...

Your reasoning is silly.
My message in this thread is very, very, VERY simple.
If you are married, don't date. If you don't belive in marriage, don't get married.
Is this a silly idea?
I am not suggesting you wait forever for the ws either.

I think you are trying to put guilt on some of these people who have made a decision to start dating.
A ws who has an affair usually feels the marriage is over. They feel the bs does not love them and is not interested in the marriage and they have given all they can for the marriage. Then they have an affair. The married couple does not love each other. Why is the affair wrong?

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Chris - OK I started out in this thread thinking that you were preaching and that no one should do anything until everything is over... But I changed my mind... You just stated your opinion and I am thinking that I just misinterepeted it... I was not actively pursuing a relationship either - and it was just there - though what kind of relationship I have is still the question... Right now I am working on myself - which I will say - that you are way ahead of me on that... I am not saying that I will never get married because I think it will end in divorce - it is just right now marriage doesn't even come to mind-- I guess when I had so much trust in my husband and he hurt me so bad - I wonder if he did that to me well anyone can you know??? I hope to really be in love someday but first and foremost I have to change myself - from within myself I have to make myself feel better... And I know that comes with alot of work.. My therapist says I must deal with the huge lump of hurt that I have just sitting there....So I wish you luck in finding that special someone to share you life with when you are ready to look for her...

So basically... there are different "camps":
- Dating is fine once both parties agree the marriage is over.
- Dating is fine after the judge signs the paper.
- Dating is fine whenever you feel ready to move on so long as there has been some kind of separation or movement towards divorce.

Regardless of what camp you are in... you have to admit that at some point... something is going to happen. LOL. And when it does... you can expect a varied range of support from the MB forum. ;-)

I never felt judged by any of you. We're all going to have baggage and issues to deal with moving forward. Be careful. Be safe. I was hoping that dating would be easier now that I'm older. It's actually not... I'm just as shy and inarticulate as I was with my first crush in high school. At least then, I judged myself based on how I looked, etc. Now I tend to judge myself based on 1000s of things, from the stupid zit on my nose today (maybe SOME things haven't changed), to how much I earn, to whether she laughs, to my own self-perception about my desirability as a friend/boyfriend/whatever.

Divorce wasn't part of my master plan. But, spending the next 60 years with myself isn't either. Time to adapt and grow, m'thinks.

I will not date you SAMIAM

I could not would not in a boat

or on a train

or in a plane

I would not date you SAMIAM

I would not eat green eggs and ham
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Just to confuse things further:

there is another camp Lyxa:

The ones who say you vowed before God
"till death due you part"

Regardless of how the other spouse is/does regardless if there is a divorce decree or not

They are extreme "standers".

I believe you should not date while married but I do not expect everyone to think and act like me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by I LuvNprotect ME:
<strong>I believe you should not date while married but I do not expect everyone to think and act like me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya do realize that the divorce decree was created by man right??? If you go by mans law....you are married if you cohabitate with someone for a period of time. Also, in Texas if you buy a home with someone of the opposite sex....they consider it marriage. I know the above is wrong in Gods eyes and he doesnt consider any of that marriage. But, God also knows when the marriage is over. Divorce decree or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Till death due us part? I know that is said during the ceremony, but it also says in the bible that one way to be able to divorce is through an affair. Also, the divorce decree is actually man made, its really a technical document.....God doesnt need that really, he knows peoples hearts and minds and knows when the marriage is over.

But, God also knows when the marriage is over.
God let Moses allow divorce ONLY IF adultery is committed and the betrayed spouse has a heardened heart.

but it also says in the bible that one way to be able to divorce is through an affair.
It's the only way in the Bible and it's not because of infidelity, it's because of hardeneing of the heart caused by infidelity. Biblically, a divorce is not okay just because your spouse had an affair.

God doesnt need that really, he knows peoples hearts and minds and knows when the marriage is over.
According to popular teaching (I can't say according to God. He hasn't told me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) God considers a marriage valid until and only until a divorce caused by adultery, not by what you are feeling or doing.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ITSOVER wrote:
God doesnt need that really, he knows peoples hearts and minds and knows when the marriage is over. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And so God somehow communicates this info to each spouse via ___________ ? Their minds, a crystal ball, fortune cookies?