</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong>ITSOVER: since you are blunt, I will be too. If you read, Mitzi is remarried to someone else. Sometimes reconciliation is possible, sometimes it isn't. But just because your woman had someone else's penis in her, does not give you the right to just say ok marriage is over even though I am not officially divorced. Or maybe it does give you the right- I guess it depends on how much you believe God has joined you together. And how much you care about your vows. You seem to care more about "She did this to me, so I am moving on and going to date even though I am not divorced yet because God says it is ok" which sounds like fog talk in and of itself. Oh and by the way, yes, knowing that my husband's penis has been in someone else is disgusting and mortifying...it is also forgivable, just like all of our other sins....Jesus died for all of us you know, even those crazy adulterers....And I don't think you understand that while your wife had an affair, there are things about you that could change for the better, just like all BS's- marriage problems are a two way street- affairs are the choice of the WS. I will not blame myself for his affair, but I will certainly evaluate my life and my Christian walk and make sure I am the best wife I can be to the next person I am married to. Whether that be my ex or someone else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everything is forgivable true....but you still have to be accountable for your actions.....hence a divorce sometimes. Adultery is grounds for a divorce in a marriage. Im sorry if my opinion is not the same as alot here on the forum, but It seems like too many here give the wayward person way too much credit. Have a good weekend.

I'm with Chris on this one, itsover. I don't think you are reading other posts, and you are just pulling stuff out of your hat. Many posts have said they are divorced and many times, the marriage is not saved bc the BS doesn't want to save it or the WS won't come back. I am not sure where you get your opinions sometimes- I guess it is a good thing they are yours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Adultery is grounds for a divorce in a marriage. Im sorry if my opinion is not the same as alot here on the forum,
I think that is a very popular opinion in these forums & I agree with you 100% as do most (probably) people here.

No one (at least in terms of the veteran MB members) are saying ALL marriages should be saved, ITSOVER.

I believe the initial issue here is NOT to date until you are divorced.

I'm pretty sure there is an article here on Harley's Website (MB) that advises divorced people to wait at least one year after the Divorce is "FINAL" to start dating.

Now if you are on this site and want to follow the principals, it's pretty much spelled out. They are guidelines to follow based on thousands of case histories. Why not learn from other's mistakes.

Jo

note: I'll search for the article and post it here.

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

I can't believe how long this thread has been going.. Too bad I've been away for a while, nice and juicy..

This all pretty much started over not dating before the D is final right? I just thought I'd share my opinion on this one. I personally would like to save my marriage, actually much closer to my WW returning now than when she left. Before she left though she asked me if I would mind if she went on dates. Of course I told her no, I didn't think it was right. I still don't know if she has or not but I have not. She has told me I should and I refuse. The way I look at it is, I won't do anything I wouldn't want my wife to do. Even now that I really am fine with the fact that she might not come back, I will still wait till the end.

Okay, I'm having a really bad day and that's a hint I shouldn't be on here because I am not in a good mood and I have cried half the day but I am going against my better judgement and gonna let off some steam!

IF you haven't all noticed, Lyxa hasn't posted for quiet a few pages....and he asked for this thread to be deleted...some how it wasn't...

I think half the people on this thread has dated or is dating someone who was separated and not divorced at one point in their lives...and probably won't even fess up to that fact because they are too big of hypocrits to admit it.

I also think that if a spouse cheats and leaves them, whether they should or shouldn't wait to date is an individual choice. Mygosh! One state a spouse can be divorced in one month...another country like Nina/Jacky's country you may have to go two years....and we expect those spouses just sit by like angels even though the other spouse has moved on and wait for the divorce to go through!

I feel like a dang hypocrit for just being on MB right now!

ANNA

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

Lyxa,

Now that I got that out of my system...

If you want to date when your wife left you that is your choice, I went out on a couple of dates but kept it to pretty platonic until my divorce, but I did kiss...wrong or right...I made my decision and it was my choice...

Here's one thing I think you should consider though. I think you may have much more respect for yourself if you wait til the divorce and can say, "I never dated until I had the divorce papers in hand."

I for one was glad I didn't have sex with anyone else through my divorce.

However, the temptation becomes harder if you want to wait until divorced to have an intimate relationship again, if you are seeing someone...

Good luck on your choices,

ANNA

Welp Anna, you can count me in as one of the several who met someone, dated him during a 1 year separation (waiting for the D to go thru).

I was an emotional mess, and had no business dating anyone. BIG BIG BONEHEAD mistake. And everyone here was telling me so. Did I listen? NOOOOOOOOOOO ... my unfullfilled needs took over and I paid for that mistake dearly.

The result is I hurt someone terribly and myself as well.

I know everyone is diferent, and as I said, Harley puts the 1 year thingie out there as a guideline. I know now it was one I should have followed.

Lv,
Jo

and Jo,

You said that with grace, honesty and kindness....

Nothing at all wrong with saying what your mistakes were.

ANNA

Resilient: "I'm pretty sure there is an article here on Harley's Website (MB) that advises divorced people to wait at least one year after the Divorce is "FINAL" to start dating."

As Anna said above, in some countries we have to wait a year before we can even file for divorce. This process was going on for me for almost three years. I got divorced in January and met a really nice man in March. Wait a year - in my case I believe this point is moot.

Dating while not divorced was not for me however. I was not in a good place emotionally anyway, and even with my new relationship, I was certainly not looking. But I am glad that it has happened this way. It sits better with my kids for one. As my son said "At least YOU waited until the divorce happened before you got a boyfriend, Mum."

Well now my X is begging me to give him a second chance....he is a serial cheater who emotionally and physically abused me for years. I do not know what is ahead of me right now, but I just know it has to be better than going back into that situation.

Love and light,

Jacky

There's just A LOT of people who will NEVER admit they went out on a date before their divorce...and yet they did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

There are also those people who just never had the opportunity to date and forgetting they would have as well....

ANNA

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

I, ELIZABETH WILKIE, WENT OUT ON A DATE BEFORE MY DIVORCE WAS FINAL.

But, it wouldn't have turned out that way had I pulled the plug when they gave me that option.

And, know what... I went to court for the final date, cried on the way home and all that stuff, and thought I was divorced. The lawyer said, ok, that's it, you don't have to worry about this anymore honey.

Weeks later I get a pack of papers in the mail.

The date on the divorce decree with the stamp and seal and all that granola.... was not the day I thought I got divorced.

It was weeks later. Maybe the judge had lots of papers to sign... the ditto machine broke down, the admin was out sick... whatever, but I thought I was divorced, and I wasn't.

If I kissed a boy during that time was I committing adultry? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Don't even answer.

Anyway, I would like to point out a shade of grey if I may.

Although I do believe that dating is something for single people, there are special circumstances.

It is not my call to judge what these are or aren't. When someone knows in their own heart that they are in good with the Big Guy, that's a good thing. And, there are those among us who do not follow a particular sect... what of those people? Do I apply my Christian (Roman Catholic) standards to them? annulment and all?

If I posted about how random posters divorced and dating who had not applied/been granted their annulments yet were not being noble by dating - how silly would that be?

Who am I to apply my law to them?

If my ex had been left in a coma, knowing he had been with OW the night before the accident, I would have still cared for him as I did and have. I would not have filed for divorce, and possibly because of legal reasons would have been restrained from doing so. At what point would it have been proper for this very sexual young woman with so much love to give to start seeking out potential partners?

And GNOME DE PLUME....

Dear sweet Penny,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Once you open the door to even the possibility of a relationship, it's amazing how rapidly things can progress. It took me all of two months to fall head over heels "in love" with a rather wonderful woman, without going on a single "date" and without even receiving any encouragement from her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She must be as amazing as my Romeo..... isn't it wonderful how they can just grab you like that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Princess Sobriquet

E

Well, i met a woman ONCE before my agreement was finalized, and realized the next day that i was not ready. I told the person the next day, and we departed never to see each other again.

is that dating? define dating. . . .

I did date another woman AFTER my agreement was finalized, and waiting for the judge to approve had the date not been pushed out farther due to the judge's vacation schedule.

was it too early? possibly. did i have fun yes, was i planning on marrying this person, NO, am i looking to get married again? no. . . Am i searching for women to go out with to have a relationship? no. . .

right now, i have no intentions of getting married again, probably for another almost 10 years, not until my daughter gets into college. . . Have my kids seen my woman friend?

about three times. Do i give all my kids my attention? 95% of the time. Do i live alone? about 99% of the time. i have since July 1st, 2000. Have i learned about myself? more so everyday by being alone.

I was talking with my kids the other day, saying i am looking for a job. I said i might get a job in a far away city where they know my GF lives. My daughter says, "Great, you can live with ___________" Very quickly, I said, "You don't live with someone unless you are married!"

Dead silence, since my X is basically living with her BF under pretenses of he needs a place to live. I repeated my quote to the kids.

Now what do the kids think? what behavior model does someone that NEEDS a person to live with give to the kids? not a good one! Already, they are having some problems with our daughter because the daughter is feeling pushed aside, and the son does not join in at all.

Heck my X does not even come to MOST of our son's athletic games at the school where she works except for the last game of the season. Most times because of the OP. so what does that say to the kids? that OP are more important that their kids? is that the message that one wants to give to their kids? that OP relationships can't wait for a stable internal view of the self?

BTW, my X is repeating the pattern that her parent's had with her, EVEN THOUGH when we married, and discussed kids, my X flat out said that she would not do that, and would support the kids all the way, every game. She did not want to grow up in a family the way she was treated. I was gullible, or she didn't realize her weakness to talk the talk, but never walk the walk.

Its been three years since i have moved out and i have about a total of 30 days of dating in that time period. 40/1000 = 4% of the time spend dating, the rest of the time with my kids or working on me.

wiftty

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: WhenIfindthetime ]</small>

Wift....

My opinion...I would say yes that is dating and yes before you were divorced...

Also, from your conversations on MB you still have someone in your life...whether it's just talking to them on the phone every night or seeing them....and I don't believe you went very long without having a gf in your life...so what's your point here? To me that's not being alone at all!

Also, so let me get this straight...It's okay to date a person...and although I don't know if your having sex...if you are then I gather that's okay as well...so then it would be okay to spend say the weekend with them or a week with them...or them spend the weekend or week with you...but just don't openly live with them and have sex....Is that what you are saying???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

ANNA

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>

God tells us in His word to respect the law of the land. We are to respect the authority over us. Jesus said you would have no authority unless my Father in heaven had given it to you.

Yes, I dated before I ws divorced from my first husband. Didn't think much about it at the time. Thru my trails God has shown me I was wrong. Will I go to hell for it? No, because Jesus's blood covers all sin. Have I turned from my sin? Yes, I will not make this mistake again. I will not date while the law of the land says I am still married. My husband left three years ago. Yes, it is hard and many days I want to go find someone else. I wouldn't have any trouble finding someone.

But, each time I am reminded of what God has shown me. I cannot go against what God has shown me in His word. I do this for no one other than my Lord and Savior.I want to please God. Yes, I sin everyday. Dating is a decision and takes for thought. Getting angry and saying things I should n't is hard to stop sometimes. But, I can decide not to date.

You say what is a date? I say it is logging one on one time with the opposite sex. I want to be careful, so I always have others around when someone of the oppostie sex is around, lest I stumble and fall.

I am not judging. I am just stating what God has shown me. My life has been hard enough, I want to stay on the narrow path toward Jesus.It is all about Him, not all about me.

gentle

Oh my. My last post was at like 2 p.m. At 10:24 p.m., there are like 3 more pages of posts and someone noted my "absence". I'm here. I just got back from what I would consider my first "date"... the first meeting on Saturday being more of a meeting. I'm ambivalent about how this first date went.

Lots of light and laughter and we both kept things very above board both in conversation and everything else. Yet, somehow it ended on a sour note. <scratches head> I can't quite tell why. I guess I was hoping that things would have gone even better... and there was a fundamental connection missing. I guess I'm wondering at the lack of connection... but, LOL, she's probably wondering why (like so many guys) I didn't pick up on all the connection clues she was giving - or not.

We went golfing. I played the ladies' tees with her, she drove the golf cart, and we had a blast. I played so that she was right there with me scorewise. LOL. We talked about high school, what we were like back then, how we've both changed, our jobs, and found some common interests we both share. She asked how I handled some issues in my dv that she's facing now, like selling a house and taxes.

This always happens to me. And, this is why I feel that I need to be more social. There are subtle cues that go into a relationship that I am just clueless about. I have no idea what to do next... or if a "next" is even warranted.

Geo. Sr. calls them the "forward" tees... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lyxa,
Didn’t really intend to threadjack you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Don‘t know what to tell ya’ about the “date.” Just because you “feel” ready doesn’t necessarily mean you are ready. I wouldn’t fret on it too much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I want to say something else... Dr. H recommends a year AFTER the dv. In most states, dv takes less than 3 months. In that same article (maybe) or other articles I have read, they point out that this time period can be shortened by so many factors. The biggest is the behavior of the stbx. Not in the sense of competing, but in the sense that some behaviors are so destructive and VALIDATING of the dv decision, that it actually helps you move on.

I could give you all a list of these behaviors, but if you've followed my posts on the topic, or if you just use your imagination, it has happened. One of my biggest issues is that SUPERFICIALLY... my xWW DID NOT WANT a divorce. She felt that it made her look like a slut. She was so damn manipulative too. She wanted to be the one to file for divorce several months later on after she had had a chance to not look like a slut, play the role of the dutiful wife, and transfer most of our assets to her family.

I was so confused by her fog, that I had to do a benefits analysis of staying with her and make a logical decision to divorce her. Then, against much resistance and manipulative love from her, I had to step-by-step dismantle our marriage over her screaming and pleading for love... all the while she continued her affair, her lies, her financial machinations, and in some cases outright attempts to use my epilepsy to have me institutionalized. It was like having to do surgery to remove connections but the patient fought back and screamed the whole time. My divorce wasn't any more traumatic or terrible than lots of yours and anything I say will just sound like Bitter Spouse Syndrome (BS...S). <my own term for when divorcees go off about their dv to a not necessarily interested audience>

That logical decision left me feeling very cold and machine-like after the dv settlement. My "emotional" closure happened when she and her cyberlover started copying me on various sexual emails back and forth as a sort of "Hey moron, look what I'm doing... In your face!!!" Nothing like having closure rammed down your throat again and again... but since swallowing, my life is SOOO different.

I don't think about my xWW for days at a time. When I do, I no longer want justice for her or her lover... after all, which lover would I go after? I don't care that she's self-destructing; I'm just dissappointed with her. I feel like I did everything I could to prevent it. I don't care about her emotional pain when her various new affairs go sour. I don't care about her lies anymore. They don't affect and siderail me like they used to. And, I LIKE this ME. He can focus on his tasks at hand. He's back at the wheel of his life and there are open horizons all around.

- Am I ready for marriage? NO WAY.
- Am I ready for a serious relationship? NO WAY. NO HOW. If you're thinking that I'm thinking of a serious relationship with Traci, when I just barely had my first date with her, you're all crazy and need to rethink your own dating strategies. LOL ;-)
- Am I ready for a casual dating relationship? Maybe but only under the watchwords of "Careful" and "Slow".
- Am I ready for female friends? Yes, I think so. And, I'm going to make some new friends... and be open to those relationships growing under those watchwords.

ITSOVER,

Nowhere in my 3000+ posts will you find where I have said to save the marriage no matter what!

Yes, I did go out with someone before my divorce was final. 1 time. I had just gone to my final hearing and was waiting for the judge to sign the papers and file them. It took 2 months for that. Was it a good idea? Not really. He's still a friend of mine and he was divorced, but neither one of us was EMOTIONALLY ready. We were both just lonely. It ended up being painful. That's why I can sit here and tell anyone that dating before a divorce is final is not a good idea. You have too much baggage.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />