I am 35 years old and have been happily married for almost 16 of those years. We have had problems (usually my doing) but not like this before. <P>First let me say this about my wife. She is an attractive 37-year-old Red Headed, fair skinned, short (petite) woman. I think she is beautiful (but maybe I am blinded). She is normally a caring person. She goes out of her way to be nice with most people. She is a bit naive and insecure about a lot of things from her physical build to her intellect. (This is nothing I did not know about when we married)<P>I am a 6'1" 35 year old with brown hair and wear glasses. I am more emotionally motivated than most men I know. In other words I am driven by my emotions first, brain later. I too am a bit naive and insecure (she knew this when we married)<P>Another man hurt her before we met and another woman hurt me before we met. (I say man and woman really we are talking about 18-19 year old people.) We both were aware of this when we got married and have been ever since. Truth is known I did some hurting of my own in regards to my ex-girlfriend. She told me she wanted to see other people and I took it badly and later she tried to make amends and I led her on and had sex with her and then left her thinking we were going to try to make things work. (There had been talk as well as planning of marriage) I also lied to her about buying a ring.<P>My ex-girlfriend has always been a sore spot with her for reasons like my Mom saying to her when she was pregnant with our first child "Oh, I saw so and so today and we had a talk". Well this type of talk may have been inappropriate at the time and the mere mention of this woman's name used to cause arguments. <P>As I was saying, we have been married for 16 years and have had our ups and downs. Slightly more ups than downs, but it is close. Most of the problems stem from either money or something stupid I did at the time. For instance, I was in the USAF and was sent to a base with a colleague (female type) and we got along just fine together. Probably too friendly according to most people (I am guessing here). I called my wife from a bar and told her I had closed it down with this woman and others and said some stuff (although I am not sure what) that made her upset. I also had pizza with this girl and her roommate in her room (was hungry and ordered pizza and ended up eating it in her dorm room) (dorm room is not a true picture--it was more like a hotel room for two people.) There was one chair and I set on the bed. I told my wife this and a couple of years later were able to put it behind us (somewhat). (Nothing happened sexually)<P>As I said, we have had our ups and downs and we are in a deeper down slide than ever. We both have been trying to be better people and Christians (Episcopalian) but it seems like no matter how many single steps forward we make we always take two steps back. We have been having problems with a daughter and with money etc. and some of the problems stemmed from a turbulant relationship I had with my mother over the years. We would not talk for years at a time. <P>Well my mother and my wife and I finally cleared the air last year and are now getting along a lot better than we ever have. (Not perfect by any means but tolerably well). During my conversation with my mother trying to clear the air she mentioned some things that upset her about me and I mentioned some things about her. One of the things she said about me struck me later. She said she had talked to my ex-girlfriend later after my wife and I had married and my ex<BR>Had told her that the reason she broke up with me was because I lied about the ring and she knew it so she broke up with me to try and get me to come clean with her I guess.<P>Over the last year and a half I have been working away from home and coming back on the weekends and it has been hard. However, I have had a lot of time to read and study the Bible as well as other books (mostly theological in nature or work related)<P>Now to the point. Over the years I have been reading my Bible (studying it actually) and attending Church more regular and I thought I had an Idea in my head that a Christian person is a forgiving and caring type of person. So when things started to go badly again for us in our family life and to an extent our personal relationship I started asking myself what could I have done in my past to cause all these money problems or child problems etc. I had been wondering (ever since my conversation with my mother) if maybe it had been the way I treated my ex-girlfriend and others in my life that I may have hurt intentionally or unintentionally. I told my wife that I felt this way about 6 months ago. I told her I only had regrets about the way I treated ex and other people. Well, started wondering this and told my wife that I thought I should try to contact my Ex through a classmates thing online and send off an E-Mail telling her I was sorry. (It was in my mind that I was going to contact this woman eventually anyway but I did not want my wife to think it was because I was trying to rekindle a romance or anything like that) My wife after some talking said to "follow my heart". So I did and I sent the e-mail the next day and told my wife I did. I said in the email I sent that I was sorry for having treated her badly and regretted it and I wanted her to know that. I also said in the e-mail I was happily married and this was not a come on or anything. I emailed my wife a copy of what I was going to send and she said it was okay so I sent it. I put my work phone number and temporary apartment phone number down for her to call if she wanted to talk or whatever. I really was not expecting her to call me but she did. We ended up talking and clearing the air and she told me what I did in her opinion and I told her what she did in my opinion and we said that we did not hate each other and wished things worked out different but things happen for a reason. Then we started talking about each other and about our family and she said she had been divorced twice and was seeing someone for 2 years and was falling in love with him and was a single parent and she weighed 60 pounds more than in high school to give me an Idea of what she looked like. I told her about my daughters and what I looked like and a little about my wife. Toward the end when we said goodbye it got a little emotional to say goodbye again and she said maybe we could be friends and I said I did not think we should and my wife would never understand etc. Then afterwards we said goodbye and good luck. That was then end of my talking to her. <P>My wife has since told me I have no concern for her feelings, that I never should have made the call, that I should have said more things positive about her in the conversation, that it was not God leading me into this decision it was Satan's influence, we have been married for so long in the eyes of God and she felt we were all partners and then I did this to her and God let me so now God and I are wrong and she is right, she said that I might as well have cheated on her because of how bad she feels (by the way--my ex and I are separated by over 1,000 miles.), she has called me a --astard and said I could not have hurt her more if I tried, when she was sick she said maybe she would die and then said she bet that is what I wanted etc...<P>I have since got mad and started telling her how I feel by her attitude and insecurities taking over and that she is not rationally thinking about what happened and how it took place and that she is twisting my words around to be whatever she wants them to be instead of the context they were used in. <P>I do not want to separate or divorce but she will not talk to anyone because she says she is too embarrassed to because "what will her parents think of me and so forth". I said I did not care that I thought she needed to talk to someone anyway. <P>This brings us close to up to date. Needless to say, she is upset and I am upset and I need some advice on how to handle the situation further. Is this enough detail for a woman to give me her perspective on this issue (because my wife feels that any woman would have reacted as she had)<P><BR>------------------<BR>JB<P><P>------------------<BR>JB

Sorry, JB, I have to side with your insecure wife. <P>For your benefit, a little background: I am not insecure, but I am a wife. I've been married almost 20 years to a man who was recently diagnosed with a personality disorder. Not that this is an excuse, but I've innately known for a LONG time that things weren't quite right with him. He obsessed over an old fiance for over 16 years of our marriage. Kept in contact with her - long distance - even planned to visit her six years ago. In the most recent past, he had an EA with another woman and was obsessed with her (even though the ex-fiance was the ONLY woman he claimed he would/could ever love - DON'T ASK - ). He was also physically unfaithful with 2 separate women the first year we were married. Add to that, he's a pathological liar. Other than that, he's a GREAT person/spouse. <P>The fact of the matter is, I TOLD him to cease and desist any contact with the ex-fiance. I told him to cease and desist his contact with the most recent EA. Due to his disorder, he is incapable of empathy, so totally disregarded my feelings and continued anyway. <P>Your wife was WRONG not to be honest about her feelings. She should have told you not to contact your ex, that she felt threatened (even if unreasonably so). The fact is, her feelings are REAL to HER. Again, she was WRONG not to be honest from the start. On the other hand, you mentioned that you know she is insecure. Being the mature adult that you are, you should have considered this BEFORE contacting a former love interest. The fact that your wife loves you is evidenced by her anger at your renewed interest in a friendship with your ex. She wouldn't be angry if she didn't care - if she didn't feel threatened. ESPECIALLY since this ex has always been a sore spot with her and YOU KNEW THIS. It's unfair to ask her to allow you to contact your ex. What's she supposed to say? It's a NO WIN situation for her. If she says no - you'll be upset because she doesn't trust you or because you claim to need the forgiveness. If she says yes, she's angry and hurt and insecure - and mad at herself for agreeing to your request. Screwed either way. I know. I've been there.<P>If you want forgiveness for past transgressions - ask in the RIGHT place. Jesus will forgive you. If you truly felt the need to ask forgiveness - you should have composed a letter to your ex WITH your wife stating that you didn't want any contact with her, just that you were sorry. No phone number, no e-mail address, no return address. Then, you should have let your wife mail the letter. If forgiveness was ALL you wanted, you needn't have contacted her directly. Too many unspoken messages in that approach.<P>And lastly, marriage is a sacred institution. It and your wife should be the MOST important thing to you on this earth. The only thing more important is your relationship with your Lord and Savior. Your thoughts and actions should always reflect how things will affect HER and YOUR MARRIAGE. Didn't think of that before you contacted your ex, did you? <P>I think you have one more very important person to seek forgiveness from. Don't you?<P>I pray all works well for you. Good luck and God Bless You.

Thank you for your honesty. <P>I did not ask for anyone to be on my side. That is not the reason I wrote this. <P>I wanted an honest opinion from another woman's perspective based on my side of the story. Not her's, because to me, she makes it sound like she walked in on me and her best friend having sex. I told her the punishment does not fit the crime. But she pays no attention.<P>I knew she would be upset. That was a given. I did not know that she would be upset to the extent she is now. When a person is talking about wanting to leave 15 years of marriage behind because of something, I just assumed it would be for something worse. <P>Let me ask you this. She keeps telling me that I can't even say anything bad about the ex. That this is all she wants is to have me admit that there is something bad about her and I do not hold her up on a pedestal. What is it I am supposed to say about that? Why would she need me to do this? I will say whatever I have to, it doe not matter but I have said a couple of things and those were not good enough. Have you ever had those feelings? What would you have wanted your husband to say?<P>I am sorry you are having problems with your husband and I hope you can work them out. I am sorry to hear he has been diagnosed with a personality disorder. A very close member of my family has "major depressive disorder with schizophrenic tendencies" (long name for a disorder right?) So I know from personal experience "personality disorders" are hard to deal with. I hope things work out for you. Keep praying. <P>Thanks again for responding honestly. I will show my wife so she knows there is someone out there that agrees with her. I think part of the problem is that nobody has came out and told her that she may be right in the way she is feeling. They all just say, "I can understand how you feel, but I can understand why he did what he did too." So she is feeling stressed about that as well. <P>Although I will pray that when she finds out she may be right to feel this way that she does not take that to the extreme and leave. <P>Thanks again.<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>JB

I must say that I do understand both sides. Your wife does have a right to feel discouraged and insecure. After all, we are human and this is one the most normal reactions one could ever have. But I really think that she should stop and look at the situation a little closer and realize 1)my husband is being honest with me 2)He even went as far as emailing me a copy of the message that he sent to her via email 3)I am the one that he married and has been married to for almost 16 years. I know that if this was my husband, I would feel the same way as your wife and someone else other than myself would have to point these things out to me too. But if you couldn't be trusted with this woman, then why on earth would you go to the extremes of allowing her a copy of the email that you sent. Yes, you could have easily sent her a different message indicating more without her knowing, but she needs to open her eyes to what she does know. Honesty really is the best medicine. She needs to trust you. I wish you all the best.

CHV <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jaybird:<BR><B>I am 35 years old and have been happily married for almost 16 of those years. We have had problems (usually my doing) but not like this before. <P>First let me say this about my wife. She is an attractive 37-year-old Red Headed, fair skinned, short (petite) woman. I think she is beautiful (but maybe I am blinded). She is normally a caring person. She goes out of her way to be nice with most people. She is a bit naive and insecure about a lot of things from her physical build to her intellect. (This is nothing I did not know about when we married)<P>I am a 6'1" 35 year old with brown hair and wear glasses. I am more emotionally motivated than most men I know. In other words I am driven by my emotions first, brain later. I too am a bit naive and insecure (she knew this when we married)<P>Another man hurt her before we met and another woman hurt me before we met. (I say man and woman really we are talking about 18-19 year old people.) We both were aware of this when we got married and have been ever since. Truth is known I did some hurting of my own in regards to my ex-girlfriend. She told me she wanted to see other people and I took it badly and later she tried to make amends and I led her on and had sex with her and then left her thinking we were going to try to make things work. (There had been talk as well as planning of marriage) I also lied to her about buying a ring.<P>My ex-girlfriend has always been a sore spot with her for reasons like my Mom saying to her when she was pregnant with our first child "Oh, I saw so and so today and we had a talk". Well this type of talk may have been inappropriate at the time and the mere mention of this woman's name used to cause arguments. <P>As I was saying, we have been married for 16 years and have had our ups and downs. Slightly more ups than downs, but it is close. Most of the problems stem from either money or something stupid I did at the time. For instance, I was in the USAF and was sent to a base with a colleague (female type) and we got along just fine together. Probably too friendly according to most people (I am guessing here). I called my wife from a bar and told her I had closed it down with this woman and others and said some stuff (although I am not sure what) that made her upset. I also had pizza with this girl and her roommate in her room (was hungry and ordered pizza and ended up eating it in her dorm room) (dorm room is not a true picture--it was more like a hotel room for two people.) There was one chair and I set on the bed. I told my wife this and a couple of years later were able to put it behind us (somewhat). (Nothing happened sexually)<P>As I said, we have had our ups and downs and we are in a deeper down slide than ever. We both have been trying to be better people and Christians (Episcopalian) but it seems like no matter how many single steps forward we make we always take two steps back. We have been having problems with a daughter and with money etc. and some of the problems stemmed from a turbulant relationship I had with my mother over the years. We would not talk for years at a time. <P>Well my mother and my wife and I finally cleared the air last year and are now getting along a lot better than we ever have. (Not perfect by any means but tolerably well). During my conversation with my mother trying to clear the air she mentioned some things that upset her about me and I mentioned some things about her. One of the things she said about me struck me later. She said she had talked to my ex-girlfriend later after my wife and I had married and my ex<BR>Had told her that the reason she broke up with me was because I lied about the ring and she knew it so she broke up with me to try and get me to come clean with her I guess.<P>Over the last year and a half I have been working away from home and coming back on the weekends and it has been hard. However, I have had a lot of time to read and study the Bible as well as other books (mostly theological in nature or work related)<P>Now to the point. Over the years I have been reading my Bible (studying it actually) and attending Church more regular and I thought I had an Idea in my head that a Christian person is a forgiving and caring type of person. So when things started to go badly again for us in our family life and to an extent our personal relationship I started asking myself what could I have done in my past to cause all these money problems or child problems etc. I had been wondering (ever since my conversation with my mother) if maybe it had been the way I treated my ex-girlfriend and others in my life that I may have hurt intentionally or unintentionally. I told my wife that I felt this way about 6 months ago. I told her I only had regrets about the way I treated ex and other people. Well, started wondering this and told my wife that I thought I should try to contact my Ex through a classmates thing online and send off an E-Mail telling her I was sorry. (It was in my mind that I was going to contact this woman eventually anyway but I did not want my wife to think it was because I was trying to rekindle a romance or anything like that) My wife after some talking said to "follow my heart". So I did and I sent the e-mail the next day and told my wife I did. I said in the email I sent that I was sorry for having treated her badly and regretted it and I wanted her to know that. I also said in the e-mail I was happily married and this was not a come on or anything. I emailed my wife a copy of what I was going to send and she said it was okay so I sent it. I put my work phone number and temporary apartment phone number down for her to call if she wanted to talk or whatever. I really was not expecting her to call me but she did. We ended up talking and clearing the air and she told me what I did in her opinion and I told her what she did in my opinion and we said that we did not hate each other and wished things worked out different but things happen for a reason. Then we started talking about each other and about our family and she said she had been divorced twice and was seeing someone for 2 years and was falling in love with him and was a single parent and she weighed 60 pounds more than in high school to give me an Idea of what she looked like. I told her about my daughters and what I looked like and a little about my wife. Toward the end when we said goodbye it got a little emotional to say goodbye again and she said maybe we could be friends and I said I did not think we should and my wife would never understand etc. Then afterwards we said goodbye and good luck. That was then end of my talking to her. <P>My wife has since told me I have no concern for her feelings, that I never should have made the call, that I should have said more things positive about her in the conversation, that it was not God leading me into this decision it was Satan's influence, we have been married for so long in the eyes of God and she felt we were all partners and then I did this to her and God let me so now God and I are wrong and she is right, she said that I might as well have cheated on her because of how bad she feels (by the way--my ex and I are separated by over 1,000 miles.), she has called me a --astard and said I could not have hurt her more if I tried, when she was sick she said maybe she would die and then said she bet that is what I wanted etc...<P>I have since got mad and started telling her how I feel by her attitude and insecurities taking over and that she is not rationally thinking about what happened and how it took place and that she is twisting my words around to be whatever she wants them to be instead of the context they were used in. <P>I do not want to separate or divorce but she will not talk to anyone because she says she is too embarrassed to because "what will her parents think of me and so forth". I said I did not care that I thought she needed to talk to someone anyway. <P>This brings us close to up to date. Needless to say, she is upset and I am upset and I need some advice on how to handle the situation further. Is this enough detail for a woman to give me her perspective on this issue (because my wife feels that any woman would have reacted as she had)<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>ALSO, you shouldn't need to say anything bad about this other woman because it doesn't sound like you really have a good reason to. The only thing your wife needs to hear you say is that you do not love this other woman, but only your wife.

Thank you hadl1970 for taking time out of your busy day to respond to this. <P>Maybe she can read these responses and get something positive from them. Ever since this happened she (and I) have been so negative we are forgetting the positive side of what has happened in our lives.<P><BR>Thanks again, <P> <P><P>------------------<BR>JB

JB,<BR>As much as I can understand your wife's point of view, her feelings of anger, resentment, betrayal, etc., I hardly understand her wanting to leave a marriage of 15 years, especially considering you claim to love her, have no desire to pursue another woman, and have no ulterior motive except to make your spouse happy. <BR>The fact is, as I stated earlier, she should have been honest with her feelings up front and requested that you NOT contact this ex-fiance. Now that the event has already taken place, all you can do is damage control. And if this means eating crow, so be it. But it sounds as if you will try anything, anyway to make it work. Good for you!<P>Perhaps your wife is having a hard time dealing with her feelings on her own. You say you've had other problems beside this ex over the years. (Honestly, who hasn't?) I think it's time you both found a reputable marriage counselor. This is NOT to say anything is wrong with either of you. But, you would be AMAZED how a third party arbitrator can put things in perspective. We all have a tendency to look at things from our own points of view - based on our own/past experiences. The most difficult thing about any relationship (especially a marriage) is communication. We just never seem to be on the same page. The wife opens her mouth, the husband hears something totally different - and vice versa. It's amazing. <P>As for what would my husband have to say about all this? Truly, it's NOT something I would want his opinion on. He has Narcisstic/Borderline Personality Disorder. He's living in fantasyland (NOT as fun as the real one at Disney )<BR>and has held me up to his fantasy of the "ideal" love, "ideal" wife, "ideal" whatever for nearly twenty years. Needless to say, I've never measured up. As for meeting needs, he hasn't a clue what this means. I've tried to meet his specific, spoken needs for years - and then when I did, he would reject and humiliate me. That's only a SMALL part of the whole story. So, needless to say, any real experiences from my marriage wouldn't pertain to a normal marriage or relationship. My life is just too surreal. Before you start feeling too sorry for me, please realize that I am content (if not happy). I realize that life/marriage will never be what it should be, but have resigned myself to the fact that he will never be able to contribute mentally or emotionally to our relationship. Now, I could allow this to make me unhappy - but how productive would that be? I could leave, but I don't believe in divorce (after all, he's emotionally impaired. I wouldn't divorce him for some physically impairment). Also, I have two children and would NEVER gamble with their mental, emotional, or spiritual well-being. Divorce is worse than death to children. So, I CHOOSE to be content and make the most out of what God has provided for me. And, to be honest, I have MUCH to be thankful for. Praise God!<P>So, when the day is done, it's all about making choices, isn't it? Will your wife choose to let this incident destroy your marriage? Or, are there underlying issues and this incident has just brought all to a head? Will you choose to make light of her feelings (however irrational they may seem to you)? If you do, it will just show her that you don't care about her feelings. Be careful where you tread. Feelings are funny things. <BR>"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you" Eph 4:32 <BR>Are you being kind, compassionate, forgiving, understanding? Don't worry if your wife isn't. Lead by example, follow Christ's example. He loved those who hated and persecuted him. Besides, your wife may need to work off her anger first. But, it's really hard to stay angry at someone who is continually serving, kind, forgiving, understanding and loving, isn't it? Have you tried this? It may take some time, but it's worth a try. Just don't give up too soon.<P>Let me know how it works out for you. You can post here or e-mail me at db8ne1@yahoo.com. I don't spend a whole lot of time on the website, but do check my e-mail often.<P>My prayers are with you.

This is jaybird's wife. He sent me the site to look over & I was amazed that he'd gone to the trouble & effort to pour his heart out. Just another example of why I love him so. db8ne1 I don't know how to thank you for all the time you took to give advise & guidance. After I read your 1st post I felt such relief. Almost as if...it's ok for me to feel hurt. I had been struggling with the issue of if I should or not. After all if God was leading him to clear the past, who am I to stand in the way of that? In my heart I believe his intentions were noble, although I still believe it was done wrong. It's my head that messes things up for me. So many questions, too many whys. When he asked me about him contacting the ex I should've spent more time thinking about it. Actually, I felt in shock & didn't know quite what to say. The major emotions started coursing through my veins when he called me immediately after his phone call with her & I could tell he'd been obviously crying. Also...the phone call lasted 2 hrs. & 19 mins. Long apology & goodbye. The call ending with her wanting to still be friends & him saying no that his wife would never understand didn't help matter either. If it was ok with me...would he WANT to still be friends with her? Our major obstacle (in my opinion) here lately is if I start thinking too much & get "down" or am "reliving" the hurt I feel, I'm liable to say something...shall we say...sassy. His response is to return the gesture, which makes me even more hurt & upset. I feel like if he could be patient with me & treat me with as much respect, love, & consideration as he treated this ex...we can get passed it. But I do need to feel like his marriage matters more than what an ex thinks of him. (And now what must she think of me?? He's been married to her for all these years & he still thinks of me. What a feather in her cap!)I love this man with all my heart & soul & never dreamed in a million years that he'd have to make personal contact with an ex after all our years together & 2 children. What purpose could it possibly serve except to make the 2 of them either feel better or feel regret that they didn't handle things differently. WHY is that a concern? Where do I fit into his life concerns? I have always considered our marriage to be very good & have thought myself a very lucky woman. Now I just feel like somewhere along the road I must've done something really wrong to make him need or even think about doing this. PLUS he did it during the time frame that he's been working away from home & only home on the weekends that he didn't have to work. Is there a surgical procedure for hurt feelings where you can just have them removed?

Cindybird:<P>First: Happy Mothers Day. Second, sorry I couldn't respond sooner. Had to wait for hubby to leave town again (He's a consultant and working out of town for three months. What a gift.) Also, work, children and life in general keep me quite busy.<P>YOU SAID: After I read your 1st post I felt such relief. Almost as if...it's ok for me to feel hurt. I had been struggling with the issue of if I should or not.<P>REPLY: Your feelings are ALWAYS OK. However, as I mentioned to your husband, you should have been honest with him upfront. This may have prevented some of these feelings and problems. The problem is, it also may have resulted in different problems. But honesty is always the best policy. (NOT that I would know this from my own personal experience )<P>YOU SAID: After all if God was leading him to clear the past, who am I to stand in the way of that? In my heart I believe his intentions were noble, although I still believe it was done wrong. <P>MY REPLY: Was God leading him or Satan? A sheep in wolf's clothing, you know. Perhaps he had the right idea about asking for forgiveness. Perhaps he doesn't need HERS but Gods? I don't know all the answers. Just another perspective. I do know, however, that sin, Satan, and temptation usually come dressed as good intentions. <P>YOU SAID: It's my head that messes things up for me. So many questions, too many whys. When he asked me about him contacting the ex I should've spent more time thinking about it. Actually, I felt in shock & didn't know quite what to say. <P>MY REPLY: "No, I need to think this thing through" would have been a good and honest start to his question. "I don't feel quite comfortable with this and would like to talk more about it later" probably would have worked too. <P>YOU SAID: The major emotions started coursing through my veins when he called me immediately after his phone call with her & I could tell he'd been obviously crying. Also...the phone call lasted 2 hrs. & 19 mins. Long apology & goodbye. The call ending with her wanting to still be friends & him saying no that his wife would never understand didn't help matter either. If it was ok with me...would he WANT to still be friends with her? <P>MY REPLY: The fact that his phone call with the ex was emotional charged - the fact he actually was compelled to cry - would be worrisome to anyone. More worrisome still is the fact that she still wanted to be "friends" and, except for you, he would, too. I'm sorry, forgive my bigotry, but I have MANY men friends (and YES, they are ONLY friends), but I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them to be just "friends" with another women. It's nothing personal, just that testosterone thing. That and the fact that men (and some women) tend to fantasize relationships. You know, the grass is always greener on the other side theory. Harley does touch on this issue in his book. Read it. In my opinion, neither of you should have "friends" of the opposite sex. Too much temptation - that "sheep in wolf's clothing" thing. You should be each other's best friends. Trust me.<P>YOU SAID: Our major obstacle (in my opinion) here lately is if I start thinking too much & get "down" or am "reliving" the hurt I feel, I'm liable to say something...shall we say...sassy. His response is to return the gesture, which makes me even more hurt & upset. I feel like if he could be patient with me & treat me with as much respect, love, & consideration as he treated this ex...we can get passed it. But I do need to feel like his marriage matters more than what an ex thinks of him. (And now what must she think of me?? He's been married to her for all these years & he still thinks of me. What a feather in her cap!)I love this man with all my heart & soul & never dreamed in a million years that he'd have to make personal contact with an ex after all our years together & 2 children. What purpose could it possibly serve except to make the 2 of them either feel better or feel regret that they didn't handle things differently. WHY is that a concern? Where do I fit into his life concerns? I have always considered our marriage to be very good & have thought myself a very lucky woman. Now I just feel like somewhere along the road I must've done something really wrong to make him need or even think about doing this. PLUS he did it during the time frame that he's been working away from home & only home on the weekends that he didn't have to work. Is there a surgical procedure for hurt feelings where you can just have them removed? <P>MY REPLY: First of all, who cares what she thinks of you? Or him? She has no business in your relationship anyway. He apologized, which is what he requested, therefore any and all communication between them should cease. That being said, it sounds like the two of you truly love each other and truly want your marriage to succeed. So, put away the punching gloves and start again. Both of you: start treating each other like you did when you were first dating. I bet neither of you "sassed" at each other back then, did you? Life is too short to waste on pain and anger and petty fights. Does any of that make either of you feel better? I would love to be in a "normal" relationship with a "normal" spouse. But, hey, we play the hand God dealt us. It's up to us to make the best of it. I can mourn away my life or focus on the positive. It takes MUCH less energy to do the positive thing. (I KNOW this - I've played the mourning game already). <BR>Again, good luck and God bless both of you.<BR>

db, You really seem so "together" and level headed. After all you've been through & are still going through, I don't know how you're doing it. Just wanted to update you since you've been so much help to both of us during our tough time. Jay moved back home this weekend & started a new job yesterday...one that will enable him to actually live with us again...so after 1.5 yrs. of him only being home some weekends, maybe we can live like a "real" family again. I went to the dr. b/c of anxiety, didn't go into great detail of everything but skimmed over. She suggested I get the book "When bad things happen to a good marriage" & said there are also workbooks...one for husband & one for wife. Jay hasn't ever been super "thrilled" with doing things like that, but told me he was willing to do whatever I thought needed to be done so I ordered the set of books online yesterday. He really is trying hard & I thank God for that. I'm trying too, but do better at times than others. A little comment about a female in general can bring back all the hurt...think it's just gonna take time. Just seems to be one of those things that will take some time. Although I do feel like I've forgiven him, the hurt is still there. He is a wonderful man. I've been truly blessed to have spent all these years with him. And he's trying really hard now to let me know how much I mean to him, etc. Maybe it's a good wakeup call for both of us. After so many yrs. of marriage, I think everyone begins to take each other for granted to a certain point. Putting a little spark & extra effort make into our marriage might be a good thing in the long run. Thank you for all your time & help. Really wish you lived next door. We could have coffee together & a nice long chat. If I can ever do anything for you, please let me know. Just a shoulder to lean on even. You can email Jay or I either one at jayncyn1@aol.com. Thanks again...and God bless you.

Cindybird,<P>In regard to my "having it all together", that's mostly true. But, like everyone, I have my ups and downs. The only difference is - I know if I'm patient and wait long enough, things ALWAYS get better. (Even if it's MY OWN attitude that improves and not necessarily the situation). <P>As for all that I've gone and am going through, they say God never gives you more than you can handle. (He must have a TON of confidence in me though!) <P>As for you and your husband, I am SO glad to hear:<BR>1. You sought outside help. There's nothing better than getting a different perspective on the situation from someone who is not emotionally involved.<BR>2. Your husband is working in town and you can concentrate on your relationship.<BR>3. BOTH you and your husband want to work on and improve your marriage. You have a leg up on all other marriages where there's only one spouse trying to save the relationship. <P>That being said, I'm sure things will work out for both of you. Just remember that the road is rocky. You will have ups and downs - just keep it in perspective. "Obstacles are the things that get in the way when you take your eyes off of the goal". Forget the obstacles and go for the goal.<P>I'll pray for both of you and if you ever need anything, I'm at db8ne1@yahoo.com<P>Jenni