im asking if im welcome here.

im an abuser. i have commited phisical abuse to my wife (now ex) and my stepson. even to my biological daughter by her being present to all of this.

i would admit to all of the specifics about what i did, but first i wanted to see if i was even in the right place. i would hate to upset anyone who might have gone through something similar and bring up old hurt feelings for that person.

i have been divorced for 6 months and going to a domestic violence class for 7 months.

im expecting the critisism to start comming and thats ok, im not looking for your simpathy for me. i dont deserve it for my actions.

im trying to find a place to fit in. i regret so much what i have done and miss my family badly.

again i hope i dont make someone feel upset or tramatized. if i do. i will gladly move on and not post anymore.

thank you.

<small>[ June 01, 2003, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Ruak ]</small>

Hi Ruak, (please edit your post and remove your full real name, just a good Internet procedure to avoid wackos from finding you)

I can not speak to those abused, but I doubt they'll tell you to leave. You MAY get some static from someone still hurting from their abuse, but realize that it is not you they're really mad at.

I suspect the abused will want some answers to what drove you to do it. Please help them to understand if you can. I'm sure this more than anything will start the dialogue you need.

Congratuations on admitting you have a problem. That is always the first step, probably the hardest.

You see the fallout from your actions.

We all make mistakes. Stop kicking yourself and get busy changing your life.

thanks father of 1. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i would be glad to be a practice dumby for anyone who was abused. and im trying to be very accountable for my actions. and willing to admit to or answere any questions any may have.

i have been in denial for a long time, thinking i was a victim.

i want to get my life really started down the road of recovery. let my love for her go and be at peace, and mostly be there for my two kids when they want me in there lives.

Hello Ruak,

At times I was physically abused during the early years of marriage. I sought both legal help and therapy and my husband sought therapy.

This is a site for marriage building. My feeling is that if you are here seeking help in restoring or rebuilding a marriage then you are in the right place. Reading the info pages of this site is a good start. In fact, Dr. Harley mentions physical abuse as well as alcoholism, drug addiction, pornography use, etc.

I strongly urge you to stay in therapy longer than you think you need to for your problem, or to find a therapist who specializes in this problem if you are not in therapy.

I appreciate your honesty Ruak. I think it was responsible of you to inform the forum members, because it enables each of us to make an informed decision whether we can or should read further. Thanks Ruak and welcome!

Oops, we were posting at the same time and I just read why you're here.

Ruad, my opinion is that you should NOT offer yourself as anyone's punching bag either physically or emotionally. I don't believe that condoning or encouraging abuse of any kind is good, no matter what the circumstances.

I wish you well in your recovery.

thank you loveingboundries. thank you so much, i will admit i have a very strong fear i would or still will hear, "we dont want your type here!"

rebuilding is something i dont have much hope for anymore, i did. we went through 6 months of wantitng to let each other go but not being able too. tonight she told me here feelings have changed and we would never be together. i did my best to respect her disision. though i feel im still a manipulator. i try so hard, before i talk to here i set up my goals for the conversation, i try to keep things blunt and undramatic.

im here. because i know its best for her if i learned how to let go. i love her with all of my heart. more than i love anything. she and my kids are so so important to me. i say a prayer for them everynight hopeing that they will be ok and be safe.

im no hero, no martar, im not even a victim. i dont know what i am, other than a person who abuses.

after our phone call i feel like i lost all three of them all over... i cant even say "im going through a break up." because im not. that happend 9 months ago.

jeez i just want to say one more thing. she is the most incradable person that ever walked the earth. mother of two kids. tries to help anyone, she would pick up hitch hikers and give them places to sleep that were warm. she went through so much even before me. taught me all sorts of ethics, stayed with me through the lies emotional infedelity. and even tried to defend me though i was abusive. even got me started in realizeing what abuse was...

the last thing want is for anyone to say "how sad he still loves her so much" please i just want to know. how do i let her go. how do i stop thinking she is so wonderfull? how do i not cry everytime i remember the times she tried to say "i love you and we need to talk, please help me with our marriage?" she needs me to let her go for her to be happy. i know its what is best for her.

please someone tell me, point me in the right direction. something. she always had the answers. always the best advice. i cant turn to her now for this. she would only think that im trying to trick her, and im not.

i wish i had started down this road 9 months ago.

<small>[ June 01, 2003, 11:50 PM: Message edited by: Ruak ]</small>

Ruak,

I'm going to warn ya, I am a lady who was abused by her exH, so my protective mode is in high gear. You asked if you are welcome here, and I kind of wonder what you mean. Do you mean, "Can I come here and get support?" or do you mean, "Are you guys all really gonna flame me?"

Speaking for myself, I think you'll find some support here if that's what you're looking for, but I don't suspect you'll find many who are willing to hear victim-talk about how your exW "made you do it" and that kind of thing.

I'm encouraged to see that you have admitted that you have a problem and are seeking some help for it. Keep on going, and keep on being honest with yourself. At first, I thought my exH had "an anger problem" and it wasn't that at all. His issues ran MUCH deeper, and frankly there came a point where he was just unwilling to face them anymore. I hope for you that this will not be the case. Behaving in a non-violent, gentle way is a lifelong decision that you make day-by-day and hour-by-hour.

Soooo...why don't you tell us a little about your story. Not specific details--I just mean a quick outline of when you were married, when your D (daughter) was born, and when you first hit your exW. Did you (or she) have an affair? What eventually ended your M (marriage) and got you into domestic violence classes??

In my case, my exH never did hit me or the kids...he did everything else. He burned things, broke things, threw the animals, ripped the door off of the refrig, locked me out of the house, left me in the middle of nowhere with no way home, blocked me, pushed me...everything BUT hit me. I think in his mind, if he never hit me, he never abused me, but I bet you can tell just from my few brief sentences that he ruled the house through intimidation, rage, and fear.

The thing that is the hardest for me now that we are divorced is finding out just how much it hurt and harmed our kids. Of course, THEY were never hit either, but they would lock themselves in their rooms at night when we fought--they would try to live invisible little lives so they wouldn't get caught up in it--they were afraid to say what they really thought for fear that THEY would be raged at--they were afraid to be angry or disappointed or tired!! My S (son) has no idea what it is like to be an adult man without being aggressive and demanding--and at 16yo he is having to learn how that it's okay to be angry and say what he needs. And my D!! She has no idea what it is like to an adult woman and not tiptoe around a man and sacrifice her own needs just to pacify his. She is a giver, just like me, but she is now having to learn how to not give her Self away. OMG!! I had no idea how this was affecting them!!

So, Ruak, I understand that you are a human being just like we all are...and that you made mistakes that cost you your family. I realize that we all need support and help in dealing with everything that goes with divorce. But I have to be honest and also say that I'm a little distrustful. Let's see what you have to say before we're asked if we're going to accept you, okay??

CJ

I'm currently going through a divorce because of physical abuse (and many other problems).

I wanted to let you know it didn't bother me to see your post BECAUSE you are taking responsibility for your problem, not trying to blame your victims for 'making' you do it, and are getting treatment.

Also, I wanted to ask some questions you might be able to help with from your perspective.

My husband head-butted me and threatened to kill me. I got a restraining order for a year (now expired). But he has never admitted responsibility for what he did and still says it was wrong for me to get the restraining order. Through mediation I managed to get a visitation agreement with the children being dropped off & picked up at a mutual friend's home. This infuriates my husband - that I won't allow him to come to my home.

Two of the children agreed to see him but the oldest doesn't want anything to do with him - ever again. She quit talking to him even before he moved out. All three children are afraid to have him come to the house - because of the way he acts around me.

How do I get him to understand that I have a right to not be around him? What is his anger all about? Why does he feel it's OK to treat me so horribly? He would NEVER condone anyone treating any other woman that way; he's VERY sympathetic of female co-workers' relationship problems, complaining they're mates don't treat them right for much milder offenses.

Also, did you have any relatives or friends who condoned your being abusive? If so, how are they reacting to your taking responsibility? How did you resist their enabling? My husband has 'support' of that sort from his mother and sisters. The few times he did express some remorse (ever so briefly and then right back to hating me when it didn't work to get me to let him come home) they 'encouraged' him not to let me 'get to him' and assured him it was all my fault.

even in my own house away from the stares and looks of you kind people this is not easy.

i have expected this. distrust, or resentment, even hatered.

i see others in my class that do act that way. "why am i here, i never hit anyone!" i never hit anyone either, i thought similaryly to them. i pushed, blocked doors, yelled, picked her up, pushed her from one car seat to the next, called her names when i was wrong, i stayed friends with an old girlfriend and didnt tell her. my worst physical act was to grab her when she was walking by me, around the neck. i put my other arm around her and carried her to the bedroom. i then set on her and told her she was going to talk to me. this was after she said she wanted to leave and get a divorce.

i want to stop here and say Faithfullwife... im so sorry. i... have not thought this out. i dont know what to say. im sorry. i hope reading this doesnt hurt you. i know you asked, but... i just hope i dont cause you stress to talk to someone like me.

i know you are thinking what a worthless person! i think that sometimes too. im trying to change.

i wont run away. i wont hide. i will stand here and answere your questions. and not lie to you. i want to be accountable. i have no reason for my acts, no she made me do it, she was an amazing person, just like you are im sure. im so sorry to you and your family...

ice dancer. im no expert. i dont know how i can help you. or even if i should. i dont trust myself to give advice with something so serious as this.

my family tried to say that her leaving wasnt fair. that the time that i went to jail was unjust, that not being able to see my kids as often as i like is bull#^*%. familys sometimes try to support you. even when they shouldnt. i finally after defending my exwife to them and without them listening had to cut off my contact with them. they were not helping me be accountable. you understand i hope. i wasnt staying objective to my situation. letting other say poor you. im no victim.

im sorry he never admitted to those things, im sorry he acts angry to you. in my class they try to teach that anger is put ontop of all of your emotions when your abuseive. i have tried so hard to remove anger from my life. not there yet. but now that i am at least looking, i see that during those moments that i was abusive, under my anger i was afraid, hurt, confused, i would act in anger when i felt rejected or even if i felt alone or neglected. i dont know why he does these things. i dont think he knows. i know the answeres dont come in the first weeks of a strict DV class. they take a long time.

as for how you get him to understand. you cant. only he has the power to do that. and i dont think he is listening.

ice dancer. and other victims

i did want to say one more thing. reading a book on DV, i did find out that its up to you if you dont want to forgive him. i read that you dont have too. in alot of cases we "abusers" have taken so much from you, not just time and money, but homes jobs, property, and in alot of cases hope.

it has been very very had to understand that i dont just get to say im sorry. i can never pay back what i took, in my case i have to accept that i will never be trusted again. and its fair.

I forgive him (always did) and even understand (without excusing) how many factors in his past contributed to who he is now. Having said that though, no matter what has happened in someone's childhood I firmly believe that as an adult they have to take responsibility for the choices they make. Becoming aware of and countering influences is part of that responsibility.

I also realize that he probably will never change. He should rise above the enabling 'support' from his mom and sisters. He should deal with the hurts from his childhood so they don't poison another generation. But he shows no signs that he ever will.

I really feel let down by the court system and my in-laws having so little regard for my safety. And frankly I am dismayed that his enabling relatives seem to have so little genuine concern for his mental health - evidently their enjoyment of bashing me outweighs any genuine love they have for him. They know full well that he's majorly messed up but they just keep assuring him that everything is my fault, that anything he says or does is justified and directly caused by me. I think a major factor in his losing touch with reality and becoming so dangerous is their going along with whatever lie he tells even if it blatantly conflicts with other lies he's told. The ONLY time they question or object is if he says something nice about me or hints at taking responsibility (rarely & he quickly turns back to hating/blaming me). Because I am not so compliant in going along with his lies, it absolutely infuriates him. His family has a long history of lying to each other to keep up appearances, jazz up their stories, and bury things they don't want to deal with.

So I really have given up hope and don't even expect him to ever change.

I was just wondering if there was maybe something somebody said, something you read, an experience you went through, etc. which made you see the light?

Even so, I don't know if I would ever trust that he's really changed. He's such a good con artist and I've already given him so many 'second chances'.

ice dancer, you sound so much like my exwife. reading your reply was so hard.

change doesnt come over night, it doesnt even come in a few months. im not changed... i just hope and hope and hope that some day i will be. so everyday i try to make a plan, alot of times i cant stick to it. i try to remind myself before i talk to my ex, i want a relationship really based on equality.

i understand how you feel. i have so completely bankrupt any love that she had from me. destroyed her trust so completely, now if i try to do anything nice it doesnt seem real to her. i think she is getting the help she needs. she gets stronger everyday and really holds me to the principles of respect and consideration. i often find myself breaking those rules. trying to ask her more about her life then i should, keeping her on the phone when she wants to go. these are the things that i have such a hard time with now. and its been almost a year. change takes so much time.

i know so much about second chances too. if i could offer any advice, it would be to only say what my ex is doing. shes going to classes. spending time reading and educating her self. as i try to make myself a better person, try to become something more human. i really feel i am respecting her more now for her strength and determination. not to put up with someone like me any more.

i think she is really going to be happy some day.

i really want to apologize to everyone. i really hope this isnt as hard for any of you. it really hurts to know others have gone through what my ex has... i wish i could take it all away.

some books im reading are

Ditch that jerk
how to talk to your kids about really important things
mens work
the 7 habits of highly effective people.

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Ruak ]</small>

Ruak,

Hi! I don't have a lot of time to reply right now, I'm heading out the door. (Kids and baseball practice). I just wanted to say, I was abused by my ex, probably worse than anyone could imagine. I don't feel stressed, or anything by your being here. I'll be back to reply more later.

Take care,
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Icedancer,
I agree with the "enabling relatives" and lies. They use the lies, and actually believe them. I don't want to understand their brand of life.
I just want to make sure my children grow up emotionally healthy, and away from their enabling influences. It's scary to think that a generational issue could continue to be repeated.
So that is a major fear about my children.

Ruark,
become healthy for yourself, and your family.

Ruak,

I've gone back and reread your posts. I'm glad you've admitted you have a problem and are seeking help for it. I was hoping you wouldn't be the type to come here trying to seek justification for what you did. Trust me, you wouldn't get it.

And trust me, you telling about it in now way upsets me. I've heard worse and I've lived worse. When my ex was angry ( most of the time), he made sure to inflict physical damage. I've had lots of bruises. Thank God there were no broken bones or anything worse.

Your daughter may need some counseling of her own. My children also witnessed the countless beatings I got. My older one is a very angry 13 year old, but is slowly getting better. My middle one is needy and my youngest doesn't remember his father living here. I've read that when a child witnesses domestic violence, it has the same affect on the child as if he/she were actually abused themself.

You've got a lot to deal with now. Just stick with it and get the help you need.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Icedancer..I dont believe I read your story before. I was emotionally, physically and sexually abused for 26 years. I am still beating myself over the fact that I didnt leave the situation. I dont know why, and that is typical textbook case of marital abuse.

My H's family also enabled and denied what was going on. First time my parents called his regarding abuse, they told my parents "I must have deserved it", "was none of their business" and then hung up on them.

Found a web site today on narcissistic personality disorder, and what an eye opener. I was sick reading it, but couldnt close the page. Add to that severe multiple addictions and you have a hell of a marriage.

I too had forgiven my H everything...including rape...but enough is enough...I did more than 70X7..so now what? H is gone and not ever coming back, he isnt sorry for anything he did, denies that anything he did would be considered abuse...

Do I have to forgive him?

Kids dont want anything to do with him.

To get forgiveness, dont you have to admit that you did something that you need to be forgiven for?

RUAK...I am so glad you came here. I am glad that you have admitted your shortcomings and are getting help. Keep posting here..At any rate it will help you in any future relationships..whether or not your marriage is to be repaired

Smiles,
Dawn

im not trying to hide. i have not posted all day, but im here and im reading. i have alot to say,

hearing all of your stories has had me in tears this morning before i left, at my desk when i had the guts to check. and now at night, i had though i would be able to go on and post some more, i cant, not to night. its so hard. and i feel like im the enemy. i want to sink back down into a dark hole. and it takes all of my strength to come back here.

it takes every ounce of curage to say i need help.

i miss them. i hope they are safe. then i realize. im the bad guy!

tomorow i would be willing to talk about my class, the domestic violence class. i just got back from it tonight. i recieved 2 progress reports. one from april and one from may. i should say, its a year long program 26 weeks in a row then 5 classes once a month, i have 8 more weeks to go before the one month period starts

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 12:49 AM: Message edited by: Ruak ]</small>

Ruak,

Anger is one of the emotions God gave us. Anger is not bad, anger can even be good. It is what we DO with the anger that matters.You will never be able to get rid of all anger. You are setting yourself up for failure if he try .

You can learn how to handle your anger in a healthy
way. I had to learn to handle my anger. I would say very hurtful things to my husband when I was anger. I let my anger become rage. Rage is not good. It eats you alive.

I am a changed person only by the grace of God. I
handle my anger differently today. God has changed many things about me. One of the first things I had to do to get better was to forgive.
I had to forgive my parents and others for things from my past. I had to forgive my husband for things he had done to me. I had to forgive myself.

Forgiveness is how I healed. We have to forgive to be forgiven. Jesus tells us we must forgive. Unforgiveness hurts us, not others. It doesn't matter if they deserve to be forgiven or not.Jesus forgives us and we don't deserve forgiveness. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you have to trust them again. Forgiveness frees you up to love others and yourself. Forgiveness allows you to heal and God to change you.

I also learned that not only did I have to forgive myself and others for what they had done to me, I learned I must forgive them for what they are doing to me and will do to me.Jesus tells us to live in peace with one another, even our enemies.

Learn to forgive past hurts and learn to forgive yourself. True healing will begin.It is our hearts that must change.

My husband use to tell me I would never change. I now know anyone can change. Yes they have to be willing but anyone can change. I know because God has changed me. I had to ask Him to change me. God can make us willing to changed. I don't say, "they will never change". God changed Saul into Paul. Who am I to say someone cannot change?

gentle

Hi Ruak,

I'm an atheist so I believe your life is entirely up to you, but do whatever works for you.

You have to make a choice. You have to decide what kind of a man you want to be.

You can choose to leave the abuser in your past. Make a fresh start. Become a new man.

The key word is "gentleman". It's quite a coincidence that I'm posting after gentle. I did read your post earlier in the day at work and have gotten around to a follow up.

Let's look at that word.

Be gentle. Not weak. Not a pushover. Just pleasent.

Be a man. When you strongly believe in your position, NEVER cave in. Stick to your guns. Also, contain yourself! Smile really wide. (like Jack Nicholson wide, he's the master) Never let them get to you. If you do, they win. The instant you lose control, they gain it.

Gentlemen have confidence and self-control.

"i see that during those moments that i was abusive, under my anger i was afraid, hurt, confused, i would act in anger when i felt rejected or even if i felt alone or neglected."

Great insight!!!

I have anger issues too. Granted, not to your degree. I break things; a lot fewer things in recent years. I deal with my problems better, but I'm still not perfect.

My dad has anger problems. I know he's been physically abusive towards my step-mother and he's alchohol dependent. My step-mother says his anger has gotten better through the years. I don't see him much.

So, what are you to do?

Be a gentleman. Have confidence and self-control.
(ladies are attracted to that, really good bonus I say, they know when you have your head screwed on straight)

Be a great dad. I can not stress this enough. Raising children will mature you and should teach you how to better control yourself. I always stand firm with my daughter on the decisions I make. This keeps her from contantly nagging me for things. She knows that nagging me is pointless. She respects my decisions and I explain them to her. I teach her all kinds of things. The mechanism I use to punish her is to send her to her room. Why? She is left alone to settle down and my sanity is left intact. This avoids an escalation of tempers. About the only reason she really gets difficult is when she gets tired. I recognize it and it's bedtime or naptime. Problem solved. Other times, I just need to get her to talk about her problem, understand her problem, and she feels better and off she goes. Women are that way. Girls are too.

Once, when she was very young (still in diapers) and I was sleep-deprived. tired, and irritable, I spanked her too hard. I scared the myself so bad that I've never spanked her again. Sending her to her room just works better. After sending her to her room, she'll usually come out a while later ready to behave.

Since my divorce, I've taken much more of the lead in parenting. My WS XW married the OM. I have primary custody. My friends frequently comment on how well behaved she is. She's very happy too.

How do you get your family back? You probably won't, but start with your kids.

You MUST break the cycle. Do not teach your kids that anger is the answer. They'll be abusing their spouses and children.

The only way your XW might take interest in you is by your actions. Talk is cheap. Just do what is best for yourself and your kids and straighten yourself out. Your XW will only come around if she is comfortable with you. (the gentle stuff) Leave her completely alone. Just be polite whenever you're around her. Never persue her. Let her be. Be a new man. Be a great dad. She might come around. Her being with you is for her to decide.

Women are a lot like cats. Try to grab them and they'll scratch you. Leave them alone and they just might come around and brush up against you. (they must be comfortable with you!, be gentle)