I found this online and thought it might be of use to some who post here:

http://www.opdv.state.ny.us/about_dv/pcwheel.html

There's no doubt I would have been supported and justified in divorcing my husband a LONG time ago by most people's standards. But I don't really believe in divorce. I made a lifelong committment and felt it was my duty to help him and always be there for him no matter what.

Every section of the pie chart I linked to describes my husband's behavior. Not that he's done every single thing listed, but he has done at least one from each category. Many of the things he's been doing for years, some all along since we first met 25 years ago, some 'just' in the past couple of years.

I gave him so many 'second chances' it's truly pathetic. He would make promises that he never intended to keep. He'd declare love for me, begging to come back but would later claim I 'made him' stay or come back. He described our marriage and even the children as 'a burden' and 'a trap'. Realizing he is a truly sick person and understanding how his screwed up childhood and promiscuous sisters influenced him does little to justify the hurt he's inflicted on me.

He told one of his bimbos he had asked me for a divorce but I had refused to let him go and had threatened to kidnap the children and never let him see them again. I confronted him with that lie and demanded that he tell her the truth or I WOULD leave with the children! Incredibly, he repeated the lie to her right in front of me, left with her, and I went home alone. More incredibly I and our children were still there for him when he wandered home 3 days later.

He told another bimbo (one-night-stander) that my baby was his first wife's baby! I was still recovering from a c-section when he went on a business trip, slept with this bimbo and showed her a picture of our baby. She sent him a letter full of sexual inunendos, sympathy about his wife (me) being such a b....., and a comment about how cute the baby picture was. I called her, thinking what sort of woman would sleep with a married man whose wife just had a baby (I was much more idealistic and trusting back then...) She said he'd warned her I was crazy and laughed at my pretending my baby was mine. For some sick reason he told her he was separated from me, had gotten back together with his first wife, and that my baby was hers! And yes, I stayed with him even after hearing this devastatingly hurtful lie. He admitted it all, said he didn't know why he did it (the fooling around or the evil lie), apologized and promised to go to counseling (which he promptly dropped out of).

Now he claims neither of those things ever happened - that I am crazy and making it up.

This is just two of many, many awful things he did during our marriage. Nobody knows everything besides myself, God, and my husband. I'm just too ashamed to admit it all and how I stuck with him. I was WAY too trusting and overly optimistic. There were 5 affairs that I know of. Once when I found out about an affair he'd had (on another business trip - again the bimbo wrote to him), I handed him a pen and pad of paper when he got home from work. I said I'd found out about an affair he'd had and wanted him to tell me who it was with, when and where. He started laughing and said he wouldn't know where to start!

Incredibly even after giving him all those chances, his family still makes comments about how if I don't let him come home I'm cruel and not showing proper concern for my husband. Even though I know I've done more than most spouses would and should feel no guilt, I do worry about him and wish there were some way I could help him. But the relationship has gotten too dangerous; with my severe hypertension I just can't take the risk of giving him another chance to verbally and physically attack me.

Hi icedancer,
I rarely post in mb anymore but I spent considerable time here when I first joined 3 years ago. I felt so out of place most of the time. My stbx is verbally and emotionally abusive and passive aggressive on top of that. Acts committed by the ws's described here are so unbelievably cruel, that they don't seem much different than outright abusers. Seems to me like the people who find success are the ones who had a solid foundation in the marriage at one time and a WS who's otherwise reasonably sane. A marriage rooted in abuse never had that foundation to begin with IMHO. I benefitted from MB by learning what a real marriage should look like and by making myself a better person through Plan A.

In many ways, I believe I was doing a plan A before I ever had internet access or knew what a love bank was. I was in a serious downward spiral of LBs when I came here and managed to reverse that loathesome trend. I liked MB because I could see an amazing calibre of people here, and I wanted their best qualities to rub off on me. There came a point where I had to move on. MB simply isn't enough to fix abuse. There comes a time when patience and understanding needs to be replaced with rebukes. Reading Bold Love by Allender helped me realize that. Marriage should be sacred and sanctified. Your h is withholding that from you! Your choice is not between a healthy marriage or divorce. Your choice is between accepting way less than you deserve in marriage, or putting an end to it. You're in a restaurant that doesn't have what you want on the menu! Repeated requests to change the menu hasn't worked. The choice is in your court. Stay where you are and settle for less, or adhere to your own values and insist on something more. I've also wrestled with the 'no matter what'. I believed my h would be my safe harbor in this world. It was shocking to realize that I needed protection FROM HIM. icedancer, when your h is not the protector that you need and desire, it's up to you to fill that role. You are not being cruel or showing lack of concern if you choose to separate. Quite the opposite. It's time to treat yourself with the kindness and respect that you deserve. Anything less should be outside the fence of boundaries you set. Your h can follow suit or stay outside the fence. Tolerating cruelty and adultry in order to stay with him is just a bunch of hogwash, and it's a lesson his family could stand to learn too.

My story is all over that wheel as well. I read that stuff and cringe. That was MY life.

Read my Humperdinck link below for details. Time does heal, and my past is a fading dark memory.

I think these men's families are why they are they way they are and think it's okay to be that way. My ex's family thinks he is right and fine, and I'm the looney bad guy.

I left. My present and future is in the Westley link below.

My life too and to some point, still. I am praying for you.

Mine still lies like about the time 3 weeks ago when he was discovered by neighbor and police burglarizing my home. Caught on police video. And then he has audacity to say "you are insane and that I made it all up".

Go to counseling asap. I did. You must understand this is not your fault. You are at the end of this rope. My heart goes out and I will listen. God bless. Keep moving ahead and don't listen to OUtlaws. They will keep on his side b/c he's probably lied to them too and they still don't know truth. Nobody ever will. And I know how you feel.

Tell us about your life now. how you're moving on and we'll help. Get a killer attorney, literally. Tell us about his job. Sounds just like my x. Powerful, makes mucho dinero. Womanizer, abuser and liar.

I am printing this off and giving the wheel to my attorneys.

Bump to this. If you have a question if you're being abused then read this link.

Opened my eyes to more than I thought I had been subjected too.

I also agree that MB concepts don't work in cases of serious Emotional or Verbal Abuse. You can't fix other people.
I suggest you read the book "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans. It explains various types, but also gives ways to counter this behavior. I couldn't change it, so I'm getting out. However, an abuser makes this difficult as they continue to "control" you.

Take Care, and get counseling. Yes you can stay in this type of M, it is a decision. LIke people who stay married to alcoholics but still go to Alanon.

Thank you so much for posting the link to the "Power and Control Wheel"!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

On my first counselling appt at an abused women's centre last October, I was given a photocopy of that EXACT same chart. They also had large, laminated and framed versions of them on the walls.

That wheel, has helped me SO MUCH to realize what kind of an abusive relationship I was in with my H. Before reading it, I only ever considered "abuse" as being hit, smacked, cursed at, or talked down to (with curse words). But my H never did those specific things, and it made me feel like I was going CRAZY, b/c I KNEW something wasn't right.

That wheel LITERALLY changed my life. I made my safety plan. I used as many community resources as I could (live telephone counselling, etc). And on the night of November 24, 2002... I finally left my abusive H... and with my 3 sons, I fled to an abused womens' shelter. In mid January, the boys and I moved into our new home, and we've never been so happy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And I owe it to that wheel, which opened my eyes to what I had been subjected to for YEARS.

Karen

icedancer, Like the others who've responded, I really relate to your story and thank you for the link to the Power and Control Wheel. It's so easy for me to slip back into self-doubt, but when I read a story like yours, I cry for the pain these abusers inflict on those of us who have tried everything to win love and respect of these severely damaged individuals.

I don't have anything to add to the great advice you've already received, but PLEASE DON'T CALL YOURSELF PATHETIC!!! I know the feeling, but as was suggested, please get yourself to therapy, you need to take care of yourself now.

Hi ice,

I'm sorry for your situation. I think you are right to get out now.

I just wanted to make one comment about the "wheel". Why does it assume that the abuser is always a man? This is certainly not true! This kind of gender stereotyping hurts all of us. I'm still surprised that the people who put out this kind of material - who ought to know better - continue to propogate this kind of stereotype.

Women can be (and often are) abusers too. I'm guessing that they are just as likely to be abusers as are men - but men are afraid to report the abuse - because nobody will believe them or because they are ashamed.

-AD

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD is absolutely right. There are abusive women. I bet I am guilty of some of those traits.

I think this version was probably created for a domestic violence against women campaign and that's why it's worded that way. Personally I find things too P.C. when they are worded his/her or he/she all the time.

Is there more violence against women than against men, or is it just that we hear about it more because men are expected to "take it like a man" and not complain? Good thought to consider.

I turned the gender bias around. And it's scary. There are a lot of things I've done to my ex. And a lot more that I'm sure HE would say I did, that I don't think I did.

I don't play victim. Even though my ex has done most and possibly all of these things to me, I don't run around outside of this site telling everyone the gory details of what led to our divorce. I don't sit around and lament 'poor, pitiful me' ... but I study it and make D**N SURE I don't do these things to my man!!

&#8226; making and/or carrying out threats to do something to hurt him
&#8226; threatening to leave him, to commit suicide, to report him to welfare
&#8226; making him drop charges
&#8226; making him do illegal things
&#8226; making him afraid by using looks, actions, gestures
&#8226; smashing things
&#8226; destroying his property
&#8226; abusing pets
&#8226; displaying weapons
&#8226; putting him down
&#8226; making him feel bad about himself
&#8226; calling him names
&#8226; making him think he's crazy
&#8226; playing mind games
&#8226; humiliating him
&#8226; making him feel guilty
&#8226; controlling what he does, who he sees, and talks to, what he reads, where he goes
&#8226; limiting his outside involvement
&#8226; using jealousy to justify actions
&#8226; making light of the abuse and not taking his concerns about it seriously
&#8226; saying the abuse didn't happen
&#8226; shifting responsibility for abusive behavior
saying he caused it
&#8226; making him feel guilty about the children
&#8226; using the children to relay messages
&#8226; using visitation to harass him
&#8226; threatening to take the children away
&#8226; treating him like a servant
&#8226; making all the big decisions
&#8226; acting like the "master of the castle"
&#8226; being the one to define men's and women's roles
&#8226; preventing him from getting or keeping a job
&#8226; making him ask for money
&#8226; giving him an allowance
&#8226; taking his money
&#8226; not letting him know about or have access to family income

Be honest, ladies. We've done some of it ourselves. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hi Lomely Heart,

I totally agree!:

"Reading Bold Love by Allender helped me realize that. Marriage should be sacred and sanctified. Your h is withholding that from you! Your choice is not between a healthy marriage or divorce. Your choice is between accepting way less than you deserve in marriage, or putting an end to it. You're in a restaurant that doesn't have what you want on the menu! Repeated requests to change the menu hasn't worked. The choice is in your court. Stay where you are and settle for less, or adhere to your own values and insist on something more."

You think I would have caught on after observing that similar problems exist in his family of origin and he cheats on the women he's committing adultery with too. I do know of some emotional, verbal abuse and beginning forms of physical abuse (throwing things, clenching fists) he's directed at other females (including my daughters). But I'm not aware of him doing something like head-butting anyone but me.

But even after realizing the problem wasn't other women were better than me, or that I needed to fix myself or the marriage somehow so he'd behave, I stayed. I believed his promises to get help and to change. And I believed I had an obligation to him and to the marriage.

I feel free from that now. I took marriage very seriously and honestly tried (for a couple of decades) to improve myself and the marriage. I'm thinking of doing a Plan B letter but my promising nothing more than he can have contact with me again if he changes - not restoration of the marriage. I wouldn't bother considering any future contact with him if it weren't for his visitation with the children.