(this is also posted on the GQII board)

I'm going through all sorts of different ideas and suggestions I plan on presenting before the judge on Monday June 9th, when I have my "case settlement".

One of the things I've been thinking strongly about, is whether or not a child should go on a scheduled visitation if they are sick?

My gut feeling, is "YOU BETCHA!".

I have 3 boys; the oldest is 4 yrs old, and the twins are 2 yrs old. There is NO DOUBT that this situation will arise, where one of them is sick, and the other two havent' gotten it... yet! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And my gut is saying to me, that when this happens, that to a certain extent, it's not my problem. H chose his actions, and must (suffer?) and live with the consequences of those actions. Is it fair to the boys? Yes and no. If they all stayed home, then we couldn't go out and do anything either, b/c of one being sick. And why should I stay home with the sick child, and H get to have all the "fun times"?

Is my feeling out of spite? I don't think so... but that's why I'm asking opinions on here. If H hadn't planned on being a parent, then he would have taken measures to prevent it (snip snip, or whatever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). And with the joys of parenting, also come the downs.

What would you do? Or what do you do? If one of your children is sick when it's visitation time? I'd LOVE to hear any and all comments on this topic. Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Topie25 ]</small>

Hey Karen!!!

I'll through my 2 cents worth in. They should go, it is the other parents scheduled time to parent, this should not be denied them. Is it natural consequences coming into play with the sick child, you betcha too bad things didn't work out for dad to have all the good fun times with the boys!!!! Every time one of my kids don't show up by curfew I give them 30 minutes and then I call their dad. He wanted to be a long distance parent, I help him to fill that need. Is it my fault that it is 1-2 o'clock in the morning. I don't feel that I should be the only one up waiting for them to come in!!! We will see if I get to call tonight, OD has 45 minutes to get home!!!!

But the mother in me kicks in, and I want to be the one to be there when my child needs me!!!! I also work at school and have seen how mesirable kids can be when not feeling well and not where they want to be!!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi Topie,

My personal belief is that whatever is going on in the child's life still goes on whether they are at the custodial parent's home or the noncustodial parent's home (school activities, friends, homework, parties, sickness, etc). The only exception to this would be if a child was too sick to travel to the other parent's home--but that raises the question of how sick is too sick? I would ask myself this question--if child was at non-custodial parent's house would I expect child to be brought back home or would child need to remain at non-custodial parent's house until they were a little better? If I would expect child to be brought home, then I would send child for visitation. If not, then I would not send child nor should non-custodial parent expect me to.

I hate the term "visitation" because I think it's really "hands-on parenting" time--and everything that goes with it.

I haven't gone through divorce yet so I don't know--does a judge decide these things or do the parents?

Good luck Topie and take care

well if you look at it from the childs view,
who had nothing to do with this other then having parents who do not live together any more.

I imagine he would want the one who is the one of you who is the nurturer.
so that he will be taken care of and not have to feel like he has done something wrong and no one wants him. especially if you argue about this which I am sure your not in front of them or with in ear shot.
believe me my folks use to talk and we always heard them, one of us would send a scout out so to speak sneak to the door and listen so we would know what was up.

your husband has been into child porno!
how come he even gets to have the children without supervision?

are the courts aware of this child porno?
Is it a good idea to send them there?

I think you might want to really think this out
a little longer about who takes them if it is their turn to have them. I would be taken every opportunity to keep them myself because he is not setting a good example for them.
how do you know they won't happen to see a program he is watching, if he watches stuff porno and someone is sick and sleeping on the couch..they would look at it without him knowing.

think back to when you were small who and what did you want.

actually I was left home alone as a child to take care of me...I grew up in fear..because of it.
I use to hide alot. because of the rag man..that bought rags and the ice man coming around my mom threatened to sell me to them..

we were abused.
I would make sure the parent who is better able to deal with the illness needs to take care of the sick child. let the child decide perhaps who he/she feels better taking care of them. no matter who's turn it is to have them..even if it's your time and they are sick and dad is the better caregiver and stays home to take care of them do it..if they are SAFE with them which you know better then anyone..don't compromise your children..put them before others. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> they grow up way too fast you will see and they will remember..
Keep on Keeping on

IF your the residential parent and you collect support and the kid is sick you should keep them home, why send an illness to the dads house? same goes for when DAD or dads house is sick, when I was sick or there was an illness in my home I gave my kids the option of staying home to not risk getting sick from me or my home.
When my kids were sick with a fever or a barfing virus I refused to pick them up, why do i need that? Its not to be mean, I cant afford to miss work from being sick, if their barfing your 98% at risk of catching it. I refuse to put my self at risk of getting sick when it can stay at their house. Their mother, the slimey slick witch would dose them up with tylenol and make them keep quiet about being sick untill the drugs wore off so she could have her play time. Other times when they left home well if they ended up getting the barfs while at my house she would call screaming because they caught a bug at my house and brought it home for her to deal with and catch, a real double standard huh??
My kids DIDNT WANT to come over if i was sick, they didnt want it!! And i didnt get mad, smart kids!!!
The bottom line is, if the kids are THAT SICK and your the residential they should stay home where their more comfortable and most of their stuff is.

Thank you for all of the fantastic replies! You've given me more to think about, and that's exactly what I was looking for. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I will admit, I wasn't at all thinking about the severity of illness... I was seeing "sick" as meaning with a cold, cough, low grade fever, etc. As far as 'bedridden' sick... yes, I would stay home with that child, and break whatever plans I had.

Let's say that was the case... one child is bedridden... should I still send off the other 2 for visitation? My thoughts that I want to share with the judge, is an "all or nothing" visitation. Let's say OS is the sick one, and stays home. Should I still send the twins out? My gut reaction is NO WAY! Mostly b/c at this time, they can NOT tell me what is going on. And I do NOT trust the set up for visitation (which is supervised by my IL's... a situation I have fought, trust me... but cannot do anything about, unfortunately).

The trigger for me was the IL's taking OS out a few weeks ago, to celebrate his birthday. The twins were NOT invited. At first I accepted that... but then I got to thinking... how about when the twins have their birthday? Does that mean Eric won't be invited??? How fair is that? I could see it with singletons... but having twins puts a bit of a twist on the situation. My IL's had also said Eric wouldn't be back until after 9pm, which is 2 hours past the twins' bedtime. But they were back shortly after 8pm... and therefore, the twins would have been just fine to go.

daybreak: Hey Dawn! Thanks for responding! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm with you on being torn... I want to give H the opportunity to care for the boys the way he CLAIMS he's been doing all along <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . But I also don't trust him to do that... and I want to look after them myself. So... is your dd a grounded dd today? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LovingBoundaries: Thank you for your input. Do the parents or the judge decide? Ideally, the parents come up with their own plan. However, if there are too many disagreements, and mediation doesn't work... then yes, it would be up to a judge. Since my H has bail conditions upon him, b/c of his child porn possession charges, we cannot discuss these matters on our own. It's entirely up to legal personnel. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And I do agree that "visitation time" should not be all fun and games... it should be "parenting time"... which is why my gut is to send out the kids.. ALL of them.

SadEyes: (((((( SE )))))) I am so sorry that you had such horrible experiences as a child!!! Tears came to my eyes when I read that your mother threatened to sell you off to strangers!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> In all truthfulness, I would rather not let the kids go to see their dad at all. However, even though H has been charged with child porn possession, that does NOT mean he cannot have access to the boys. YES, it is ONLY SUPERVISED visitations... however, the supervisors are my IL"s... and I disagree with that too. But it's out of my control. I did whatever I could do to fight that. That's part of the other issues... Both of H's parents come here to supervise. Technically, one would stay with the sick child, and the other would be with H and the non-sick kids. Whereas what SHOULD happen, is that H look after the sick child, with one or both of his parents there. Again... I have no control on how they use their time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Should H be found guilty of the charges, then at THAT time, visitation and access may be denied by the courts. I don't know for sure. The final trial date hasn't even been set yet... all I know is that it won't be until spring 2004!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Karen

fortyone: We were posting at the same time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm stuck in this situation, in many ways. True, if H (or his parents, the supervisors) were ill, I wouldn't want the boys to go to them for visitation either. Why should they risk getting sick, just because a visitation was lined up? However, these are COURT ORDERED visitations too. And the last thing I want to do, is go against a court order... that would be WRONG, and wouldn't help my case at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (even though the moral grounds were the best reasoning). But that's an excellent point, to mention that if one child is sick, that he could pass it on to H or the IL's.... and there's no doubt, that if one kid is sick, the other 2 are at the most, only days away from being sick too (there's no such thing as just one person being sick in my house... we always go for the "round robin" effect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

Karen

Court ordered visitation is set with the hopes that both parents will be mature enough to agree to changes that best suit the children. Every other weekend might work for younger children but what about when they get older and their activities interfer with their time with the other parent. It might be sports, a school dance or a job. That's when both parents should be flexible, especially if they live close to each other. For instance, my husband's kids live with their mother but they are about 20 minutes away. If their activities land on his weekend he still takes them and then gets them to their activities. My ex who is also about 20 minutes away says "If you have activities don't bother coming over". Guess what? They don't and it's his loss. I wonder if my husband's ex would appreciate it if he took his kids on his weekend when my kids were home and good and sick? We could send them back sick. Who would we be punishing? Would I want his children over if they were sick? No. What we have done is not purposely exposed any of the kids. We call her home if one of my kids are sick and give her the choice of sending them or keeping them home. She does the same. Now if one of the kids get sick while they are over the weekend continues because by then everybody has been exposed. I know for a fact my kids would not want to go to their dad's if they were sick. Given their past with him there is no bonding and they would prefer their own room/bed. I wanted custody, I have custody and I guess taking care of the kids the majority of the time when they are sick is part of that. I think the situation is different if the custody arrangement is more 50/50 but at least in my situation it is more 90/10 and a dad that takes his kids 10% of the time is not a dad they want to be with when they are sick. By the way, this arrangement is what he wants...it wasn't court ordered. He'd have more time if he followed the court order. But, that is entirely a different subject. My point is, nothing will be black and white or court order followed when it comes to divorce. It means putting your anger/hurt aside and doing what is best for the kids.

BonnieSept: Thank you for sharing your situation with me (and the other readers of this thread).

I understand what you're saying.. and I agree with you. Ideally, H and I should be able to talk these things over, as they occur. However, that is an impossibility, because of a no contact order. All communication is to be done via lawyers and family court staff. There are no exceptions. And I have no way of changing that... it's all up to him.

That's why I'm trying to come up with suggestions that would hopefully be put into the court orders. I've being doing my research (as much as possible, through reading... although I know that the actual experience is what I'll learn the most from), and I realize how it can't possibly a "black and white" situation when it comes to D. The book I am currently reading, suggests that the "orders" be brought back to the table for discussion, at least every 4 years, due to the changes of activities and circumstances of the kids. (e.g. a 9 yr old has different interests and activities than that of a 13yr old).

I'm also working on coming to terms with how much control I do NOT have, as far as how H deals with the boys during visitations. It's really hard... b/c I'm so worried about the boys. But again, I've done all I can do about it, at this point.

I would NEVER deny access purposely. Although I don't believe my H deserves to spend time with the boys, I believe that the boys deserve to get to know their dad, and make their own decisions about him. As hard as it is, I think I'm doing a good job at keeping my hurt and anger aside... and typed out on here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I am trying to do what's best for the boys... and that's why I'm on here asking for advice regularly. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Again, thanks for sharing. I hope my situation will come to a good understanding soon... as yours has. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Karen