I have lurked and read at MB for over 2 years now. I understand the anger directed at the OP. However, for those dealing w/ NCPs that have decided to remain w/ the OP I wanted to share an observation.

In the beginning the XW had a lot of anger toward me and him. Now her left over anger seems directed at him alone. I read the posts aimed at the awful OP and how it is not safe for the children of the marriage to be around that person. I have also seen posters give this same advice in an instant where the poster stated that her child was in fear of being hit from the FWS/Father. No one addressed this, yet everyone jumped on the bandwagon to protect the child from the OW. What about the abusive daddy?

I am awake now at 2:17 in the morning. FMM is at work. I just got off the phone from wishing him a Happy Father's Day.

Why is a contented woman up so late on one of her only 2 days off (and I was up last night as well - although this week I have 3 as I took off Monday in case she is still ill)? Because my FDSD is sick. We received her w/ a 101 temp and an upper respiratory infection. Since I have had her the temp has been up and down. I just gave her another dose of children's Advil, her antibiotic, and a bath to help bring her temp down. It is now almost normal at 99.4. She is resting peacefully after being rocked to sleep - BY ME. Her daddy (FMM) came home and checked on her at his dinner break. She pushed him away in favor of me. As he was leaving I gave him a kiss at the door and stated "we love you". He joked "you love me, but you have stolen my daughter's love". Of course, he was just kidding.

However, he is not used to being rejected by her. The maternal grandmother even remarked to me that last time he took her home she about broke her neck to jump out of her mother's arms to get to him.

The purpose of my post is not in anyway to downplay her skills as a mother. In fact, I think she is doing a GREAT job. My FDSD can actually count to 7 and she is not even 2. She is also now almost potty trained (a combined effort on all of our parts).

I guess I wanted to let everyone know that sometimes the OP do care. Sometimes we do stay up all night rocking a sick child that is not ours. That we would never hurt your child while in our care.

Last week when I picked up FDSD she ran to get to me. In the process she tripped. Her mom tried to pick her up to comfort her. Yet FDSD continued toward me. Her mother stated that answered all of her questions. I asked her what she meant. She stated while she never thought I would mistreat her daughter outright, she always wondered how well we got along.

So please do not always be so quick to condemn. Yes, our relationship (FMM's and mine) started out wrong, however, we are doing all we can to now do right. tew

Good for all of you TEW, if only everyone here were in that position, we all try to do what is the healthiest for our children, but so many here have had so much taken away from them and also see what has been taken from thier children. Not all OP are bad characters and not all X's are good. My "D" has already had one woman want to be "MOM" on almost a first meeting and by a woman who gave up custody of 3 boys, my "D" said she already had a Mom but she could be friends. It was well said on my "D" part. Different characters, different characteristics and somethings you have to earn, you have earned it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That we would never hurt your child while in our care. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never is a long, long time, and you have a long, long time to prove your statement as different situations will arise in the future, and two year olds are much different than 14 year olds. . ..

I remain skeptical until her adulthood . .

wiftty

Guess I was right.

OW/OP lurking here for 2 years.

Lemme see here...You were actively breaking up a marriage with a child and learning MB techniques all the while?

And you seem to be very critical of the xW's role as mom.

and you are discussing XW with the family also.

It's sad enough that a family has been brought down. You can say whatever you want but you and he did what you did and now you would like to convince everybody here that OW/OM aren't really all that bad.

Well you sure aren't good either. And discussing the mother with family members???I mean...You're still the live in..It ain't legal yet and if you're so "pro" mama here, then why even mention her to her former family at all unless it is to gain some kind of "edge" as you were the interloper here ok?

Think most of us have come here to learn how to build our relationships and those of us that wound up here at the divorcing forum have been through the worst with regard to adultery. So why in the heck are you posting here?

I mean...You're not married. You're shacking up with a man who ditched his wife for you and basically you're trying to pick our brains.

Yea I said it. Pick our brains so you will appear less foggy to xWH. That's what he is really. An ex wayward husband. And his x wife has every reason to be angry with you. She should be but as I suspect like so many of us here, she's just going to get on with her life and save as much dignity and respect as she can in light of the shameful situation her husband and mistress are living in in well full view of this child.

It isn't healthy. Not for this child. And personally I think your posting to mothers here is quite offensive.

It's one thing to be an adulterer. And it sure is another damn thing to be one using MARRIAGE BUILDING techniques to advance your position as still another woman. Are you related to Ms. Family Values? You're just as foggy as she is...Wierd.

But here's one thing. No matter how many techniques you steal to learn and apply to make your situation seem normal it just ain't ever gonna be so. God forgives for sure, but you have to turn from the sin first before that happens ok?

The worst of WS's and adulterers are the ones imho, that deliberately twist and manipulate the truth for their own selfish gains.

Now honestly girl...Isn't the best situation for a family to work together to solve their own problems first before anybody goes off jumping in the sack with anybody else? And broken homes are not the best places for a child to be raised.

I am sorry for the situation you're in. I am especially sorry that this child has to grow up seeing her dad shack up with a mistress in full view. And I am sorry that the wife endured the pain she did. And I am sorry that you are using our marriage building techniques we've learned here to advance your affair. Ultimate hijacking in my opinion.

One last little note. Remember there are very cool xwives out there. Very cool. And smart too. We even read and lurk other places to learn all about your games as well. Although nauseating, I have certainly lurked on sites dedicated to the OW out there.

Bleeeeech.

Think anybody posting here about wanting help to advance their affair or to basically rip on an xwife who went through probably a traumatic time is pretty insensitive and shallow.

And wifty is right.

But the truth stands with regard to OP and children: ANYBODY WHO'D PUT THEIR SELFISH DESIRES ABOVE THAT OF A CHILD AND THEIR FAMILY IS SELFISH AND WILL ALWAYS PUT THEMSELVES FIRST.

I am much more hardcore than some here because I've gone through alot. But its made me terribly strong and I've gone to bat for my son on more than one occasion.

And like I say, when you've build your dreamhouse on a foundation of quicksand, it's gonna fall. Sorry. The stats are against it. And where's the radical honesty if you're incapable of it? Where's truth and love when betrayal and lies are the basis of this union. Where's the honor when it began with dishonor?

If he did it to her, then he will do it to you. Same goes for you too.

And don't refer to yourself as a former OW. You still are ok?

lila,
I agree w/ everything you said. Some women do try too hard and force themselves on the children. Lol @ your story about daughter's comment. Sounds as if you have raised her well and confident enough to express herself.

I have postd my story here several times so I am not going to try to justify my role as the FOW. FMM and his XW really should have never married. They both have admitted that. However, that did not make it right to engage in a relationship w/ him once I learned he was married.

How are you and your daughter doing now? And thank you for the kind thought.

When,

That we would never hurt your child while in our care.
Never is a long, long time, and you have a long, long time to prove your statement as different situations will arise in the future, and two year olds are much different than 14 year olds. . ..

Well that is the truth - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> - I have a 15 and 13 -year-old son and a 9-year-old daughter. Trust me, the 2-year-old is the easiest in the bunch to care for. I thought I wanted no more babies, but their daughter makes you see the baeuty in the world - all over again. Her smile rejuvenates you after a long day - or night!

I remain skeptical until her adulthood . .

I respect your right to pass judgement at a later

notpeachyinga,

Guess I was right. OW/OP lurking here for 2 years.

Posting here also. I have never hidden the fact that I am a F/OW.

Lemme see here...You were actively breaking up a marriage with a child and learning MB techniques all the while?

No. I initially came to MB to ask a question of BSs. I stayed because I found the info valuable and the people refreshingly honest, caring, and helpful. As far as the MB techniques, I have read most of them. I believe in Plan Aing every day. I was doing that long before coming to MB. Naturally FMM and I want our relationship to be successful. That is why I have waited to marry. This will be our second marriage AND my last.

And you seem to be very critical of the xW's role as mom.

O.k. this is where I disagree with you. Where in my post am I critical of her at all? In my post I stated:

* The purpose of my post is not in anyway to downplay her skills as a mother.

* In fact, I think she is doing a GREAT job.

* My FDSD can actually count to 7 and she is not even 2.
* She is also now almost potty trained

O.k. - so where am I critical of her as mom???

In the beginning the XW had a lot of anger toward me and him. Now her left over anger seems directed at him alone.

This is also true. Here lately SHE chooses me to act as the go between on issues of daughter. She CHOOSES to leave daughter in my care rather than change our 3 days of the week. She is now starting to realize that our keeping daughter while she is away is better than her older teen aged daughter doing so. For example, when we picked her up she had temp, yet her caretaker could not recall if /when she had give her medication. Thus, we get to keep her an extra day this week.

and you are discussing XW with the family also.

No, I don't make it a point to draw out conversation about the XW from her own mother. As I stated:

The maternal grandmother even remarked to me that last time he took her home she about broke her neck to jump out of her mother's arms to get to him.

She brought this up, not me. I wasn't there and would not have known about it had she not mentioned it. She made the comment after comparing the 2 girls and 2 daddies that are still in the home - and the difference in the 2 men.

It's sad enough that a family has been brought down. You can say whatever you want but you and he did what you did and now you would like to convince everybody here that OW/OM aren't really all that bad.

I will not get into the pros and cons of their M. Suffice it to say they both have now stated they should have never got married. He had already left the home. He went back because she was pregnant. He has done his best in a bad situation.

HE IS NOT JETHRO.

He has paid support from the day he left of his own free will - w/out a Court Order - as he should! He has 3 days a week w/ his daughter. He is a good dad. Even the XW, as angry as she has been, has NEVER denied that fact.

I DO NOT NEED TO GAIN AN EDGE OVER HER MOTHER (XW). WE ARE NOT IN COMPETITION.

While we are not married yet, and yes I am JUST the "live-in" I do have some legal rights in regard to their daughter. The Parenting Plan on file, signed by them both, and approved by the Judge has mention of me in it and the rights I have. I also put her current live-in it also. We did this as a protection as the daughter is often in my care solo. I also have his POA.

I am not saying I am "good". however, I am a GREAT caretaker of their daughter.

I have posted in the past and I posted this to share my insight and to gain from others' experiences as well. I am not seeking anyone at MB's stamp of approval for our relationship. it is what it is. I am merely offering an opinion from the other side. I have not come in secrecy, nor have I ever hidden my identity. Several posters at MB have sought my opinion throughout the many months I have posted - both on the forum and through pms. And again I say:

I guess I wanted to let everyone know that sometimes the OP do care. Sometimes we do stay up all night rocking a sick child that is not ours. That we would never hurt your child while in our care.

That we are not evil in and of ourselves merely because we were once in an EMR.

I mean...You're not married. You're shacking up with a man who ditched his wife for you and basically you're trying to pick our brains.

No, we are not married yet. Nor do I need to pick your brains. A lot of the posts I have read lately state that the children need protection from the OP. This may be true in some cases, but not all. Nor do I advocate all BSs lovingly send off their children to the OP's waiting arms. In fact, in 2 recent cases I advocated the BSs not send the kids at all. Nor do I blindly post on anyone's thread. Note I stayed away from your
posts recently about the bday party etc. I felt I had nothing productive to offer to you in that instance.

Yea I said it. Pick our brains so you will appear less foggy to xWH. That's what he is really. An ex wayward husband. And his x wife has every reason to be angry with you. She should be but as I suspect like so many of us here, she's just going to get on with her life and save as much dignity and respect as she can in light of the shameful situation her husband and mistress are living in in well full view of this child.

What are we doing that is any different than what she is doing? She also has a live-in (her second in 16 months), she also cheated in the M?

It isn't healthy. Not for this child.

So when we marry will it become healthy for her then? Will I be accepted by you at MB once we wed? And if not, what does that say for the other posters at MB whose relationships started out in similiar patterns? Or the WSs for that matte?

And personally I think your posting to mothers here is quite offensive.

Well I am sorry you took it that way and feel that way. I respect your right to your opinion.

It's one thing to be an adulterer. And it sure is another damn thing to be one using MARRIAGE BUILDING techniques to advance your position as still another woman.

My position is not in need of advancement. However, I do believe both parties in a relationship are equally responsible for its well-being. And I am not above using whatever resources are available to me to do so.

Are you related to Ms. Family Values?
No.

But here's one thing. No matter how many techniques you steal to learn and apply to make your situation seem normal it just ain't ever gonna be so.

What technique do you feel i stole? When I state I was doing a form of plan A long before i came here I meant that I was doing all I could to make myself the best person i could be. I also choose not to attack my partner and harp on his every little action, behavior, etc. Some may construe this as an effort not to LB. However, I believe it is common sense.

God forgives for sure, but you have to turn from the sin first before that happens ok?

So are you saying if I marry my FMM I will never be accepted by God? There are a couple of posters here at MB that started like this. Are their marriages doomed? Do you accept them? Are you stating that once FMM and I are married I am not entitled to receive the benefits of being his W or the services of MB solely based on the way our relationship evolved? If we needed counseling in the future would Harley turn us down?

The worst of WS's and adulterers are the ones imho, that deliberately twist and manipulate the truth for their own selfish gains.

Where have i manipulated the truth? It is what
it is. Yes, we started out wrong. Does that mean we can not have a long-term successful relationship? Am I a bad caretaker because I was an OW? Should my FDSD not feel love for me based on facts she is too young to understand?

Now honestly girl...Isn't the best situation for a family to work together to solve their own problems first before anybody goes off jumping in the sack with anybody else?

They both did this - not that it makes it o.k.

And broken homes are not the best places for a child to be raised.

Nor are homes where the 2 parents do not love or respect one another and argue all the time. My sister is a prime example of this. I am not condoning divorce or blended families. However, that is what we are and we are going to do our best to provide for this lovely little girl.

I am sorry for the situation you're in. I am especially sorry that this child has to grow up seeing her dad shack up with a mistress in full view.

Are you also sorry that she sees her mom "shack up" with her man in plain view? She also was seeing him while married?

I am sorry that the wife endured the pain she id.

Me too.

And I am sorry that you are using our marriage building techniques we've learned here to advance your affair. Ultimate hijacking in my opinion.

Again, where have I stated this?

One last little note. Remember there are very cool xwives out there. Very cool. And smart too. We even read and lurk other places to learn all about your games as well. Although nauseating, I have certainly lurked on sites dedicated to the OW out there.

I am aware that their are XWs out there that are all of those hings and more. I do not think a divorce reflects badly on the content of the character of the BS. I am also aware that posters from MB post on other sites as many have pmd me.

Bleeeeech.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Nice.

But the truth stands with regard to OP and children: ANYBODY WHO'D PUT THEIR SELFISH DESIRES ABOVE THAT OF A CHILD AND THEIR FAMILY IS SELFISH AND WILL ALWAYS PUT THEMSELVES FIRST.

I did not put myself above their child. Nor, am I selfish. If I was, I would suggest FMM hire a sitter or leave his daughter home w/ W's other daughter while he worked. I would not care for her or love her. I would not spend time collecting all the Scooby Doo items she adores. I'd leave a diaper on her rather than potty train her. When he first left I wouldn't have calculated the amount of CS he should pay and have him send in excess of that amount - EVERY WEEK - even though he did not have to. I wouldn't do her hair every day she is here or lovingly rock her when she is ill. I wouldn't take off work to care for her. And the list goes on...

I am much more hardcore than some here because I've gone through alot. But its made me terribly strong and I've gone to bat for my son on more than one occasion.

I am aware of your situation, at least through your posts, as I have read them - esp as we are both in Georgia.

And like I say, when you've build your dreamhouse on a foundation of quicksand, it's gonna fall. Sorry. The stats are against it.

Let me guess, the 5% often quoted and never cited. Anyway, each situation is different. That is also why I have waited to marry, to be sure. Not to mention I have seen many relationships here fail that were not built on quicksand. Only time will tell.

where's the radical honesty if you're incapable of it? Where's truth and love when betrayal and lies are the basis of this union. Where's the honor when it began with dishonor?

If he did it to her, then he will do it to you. Same goes for you too.

So I guess BSs should never take back their mate. Because if the WS did it to BS once then WS will do it to BS again??? I am quite secure in our beginnings, his intentions, and his fidelity.

And don't refer to yourself as a former OW. You still are ok?

Why? They are not married. When we marry will I be the W/OW? When do I stop being the OW?

I agree - I read your post with the biological mother to not be doing her job right. Do you see what you have put this child through? She is holding on to anyone right now, cause her life is so warped. To have you post here, I find appalling. How can you say that you have her heart in your heart. You had sex with her father while she was married to her mother. So now that you are proclaiming to be a good OW, this gives you right to say the biological mother is failing as a mother.

This little girl has so much pain in her body. She loves her daddy and her mommy. And you seem to think that there is nothing wrong with this little girl. Wait, wait till she grows up more and is able to express her anger.

I know what the bimbo in Arizona did to my kids, my family. My kids are deeply hurt, and angry. I have 4 kids from 17-24 and you haven't seen the hurt and anger expressed. My kids speak with foul language, of course they heard their dad speak to them with unthoughtfulness. And the bimbo in Arizona did this to another family, besides ours. She is a warped woman.

So while you were screwing with this little girls daddy, and she thought she had a mommy/daddy in tact, did you feel the same about her, and what you were doing to this precious little mind? No, the affair was in full force, and you didn't give one hoot about anyone but you and him. So for you to come on and say the two of you are doing good, and taking good care of precious little 2 year old is a bunch of crap.

I am a betrayed spouse of 25 years to a man that i gave my body and soul to. This was the only man I had in my life ever. I waited till I thought I had a decent man. I was mistaken and now I pay for his deceit, lies, and continued lies.

My kids are angry, show their father care, and basically find their father still is lieing to me. I tell them direct answers, I show them proof if they want it. I show them, how I am not going to beable to survive. I show these kids the deceit and the lies still going on. I had a talk with my son today, and I have the paperwork to show him that we cannot survive on alimony.

This is the betrayed spouses story. We are the ones that are hurt. You had fun, and were not lied to. You were not faced with the man you loved and his betrayal. I was told on the phone numerous times by the other woman, that she didn't love my husband. That she was going to commit suicide for if my husband at the time and I were going to tell her husband about her affair. She told me she couldn't tell her husband cause this was her 2nd time doing this in her marriage. Yes, the first one was a minister. My x-husband fell for a (whore) bimbo adutlerous Arizona woman. How do you think this made me feel. He fell for a woman that was not committed, that used him. I was commiitted and was used by my husband. Yes, he used me, and I could prove to you here the things that he did, and spent thousands of dollars on this bimbo. While I worked my A$$ of and she sat at home and was a stay at home mom and told my husband that she didn't work. Cuase she didn't want to work, she was a lazy fat bimbo.

I am going, anger strong right now. so I better go.

You know tew... it isn't that you don't love this little girl that makes you a bad person. I suspect that you do love her in a way. It isn't that you don't love this man that makes you a bad person. I suspect you do love him in a way.

What lowers you in most peoples eyes here is the fact that your character is so demented that you feel that what you have done and are doing is OK. That you are able to say, I change her diapers, therefore there is nothing wrong with what I have done, and am doing. That "I will marry him, so what I did to get to this place is OK."

The lack of character... or at least what I perceive as character and a base of right over self is what bothers most people here. The ability for you to say that the end justifies the means... that she did it, so it is OK for me to do it. That has a playground mentallity ringing in a world that requires adult responsibility. That is what bothers us here. To even be able to say, "But she did it." lowers you even further, because that shows us the true reasoning behind your actions. And that seems to be, self first. Just because you can take care of a two year old doesn't make you WORTHY of taking care of that two year old.

I don't excuse what her mother did or is doing. But you can't control what she is doing. If you use her behavior as a basis for why you do things, it is like saying that "I took his apple because she took his book." 4th grade logic isn't what a child needs as the basis for her life. I hope that if nothing else, you will see that what you have chosen to do is no better than anyone else doing it. That is all. I don't care if you use MB techniques, they are meaningless. I don't care if you say a thousand times, when am I forgiven, when do I become other than the FOW. You will forever be the OTHER WOMAN... that was set in stone the moment you slept with that child's father. If you die married to this man at age 99, you will still be the adultress, because that is just what you did. Nothing more, nothing less. If you kill someone, you are always a murderer. No matter if you join a convent for the next 70 years. You might change what you are from that point on, but you can't change the past.

Actually, the way you post, it seems like you are looking for acknowledgement... I think that there is a good chance that you feel guilty, and feel that perhaps with a bunch of BS 'oks' you might become something other than what you are. I could be wrong... but I don't think so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tewjtm:
<strong>BY ME</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, that about sums it up. More selfish, delusionary justifications for your actions.

I'm the CP and the BS.

My WSXW married the OM.

I never talk about all the things I do for my almost 7 yo daughter. I have no need to stroke my own ego. I do have a need to raise my daughter the best I can and teach her right from wrong.

My daughter is healthy, happy, and smart and that's all that matters. I take care of her selflessly. Your motivation for caring for the little girl is to further your own selfish desires. You're here blowing your own horn.

Anyone want to take a wager on how long your relationship will last?

Lets see now. A relationship built on top of an affair. Odds are really stacked against you.

Also, shacking up. Another hit.

Mixed families. Another hit.

Go ahead, keep on breaking that arm patting yourself on the back. The most important thing that you will NEVER be able to teach that child is character.

The little girl WILL understand what has happened in time. I figure that when she becomes a teenager and figures it all out, she won't be so easy to raise.

My mother divorced my dad and married the OM.

I have no respect for either of them. (my mother is dead now and I do not miss her for a variety of reasons) My step-dad moved away and I rarely speak to him. (I spoke to him once a few years ago after more than a decade)

They later divorced after a loveless marriage of umpteen years. It was only a marriage of convenience. Why aren't you married yet? Your relationship is no different.

Go be clueless somewhere else...

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 01:48 AM: Message edited by: father of 1, husband of 0 ]</small>

I have read all the replies. I have to get FDSD fed and ready for the doctor's office. I will respond later today.

However, for those that stated I put her parenting down, I guess it goes to show that we see what we want to see based on our own experiences as there is no comment by me stating anything negative about her, or her parenting.

However, for the record I think her parenting skills are superb. tew

I didn't go back and read your entire history so I don't know your story, but I was sorry to see you get raked over the coals like that. The pain of an OP in some people's lives here is too fresh to ignore when they see another OP who is comfortable when they are not.

I had an internet EA, which makes me the WS, whether my ex was also a WS is irrelevant. I didn't leave because of the EA, I left after it ended because of years of verbal, physical, mental & other kinds of abuse. These things factored into my EA but I don't blame him for causing it. I contacted an old friend via email, we chatted quite a bit, and he made me feel good about myself for the first time in years. Anyway, my marriage was a horrible relationship almost from the start and I am 1000% better without it.

The kids have a good relationship with their father and I try not to interfere. He does some manipulating out of his hatred toward me, but he is not a danger to them. He has been more active in their lives since the separation. Some is for show, some is legit. (If only he were as interested in them as his mother is ... oy.)

I had a boyfriend after separation, but before the divorce was final, so technically he was an OM. I know my ex has the same kind of hatred toward him being a parent figure in our kids' lives that I see coming out on this board. However, in the two years we've been together, I've seen BF spend more time with the kids than my ex bothered to when we were together. My man is GREAT with them. I knew he would be when I saw him with his own daughter. They love him. (My daughter sometimes calls him Dad by accident, they both sometimes call me Grandma by accident. Tis not a big deal.)

At least I am on speaking terms with his daughter's mother. We aren't buddies, but we can communicate about the kids (hers/theirs and mine, who play together twice a month) and there is no conflict there. My ex will never accept my BF/H, no matter how long we've been together. I have many reasons for not pursuing marriage at this time, but it has not been ruled out for our future. We are in it for the long haul.

No one can tell me I don't belong here, studying MB principles, just because I'm not married right now. I don't intend to be twice divorced, and I'm learning all I can to keep this love just like day one. So far, so good. I know where I failed my marriage, and I know what to look for (and look out for) in a partner. I know my EN's and his are not only compatible, they're durn near twins.

Please don't be so quick to judge, folks. If anyone out there has never made a bad choice, let them cast the first stone ...

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: ex-Princess Buttercup ]</small>

It's been a while since I've posted because I'm trying to move on with my own life now and have tried to remove my WH and his mistress from my mind. But...we have the children. My H left me during my 4th month of pregnancy to a woman who was in the process of leaving her husband. The week prior to meeting her, he was professing love for me. It was as if she needed someone to accompany her on her journey and chose my H who was going through issues of his own. He returned home three times over the past 11 months and each time the two of them resumed contact and I asked him to leave.

I can't begin to try and describe the pain that I endured as a pregnant woman with a two year old trying so hard to get him back and re-establish our loving family -- and yes, we were a loving family. But it didn't work out. She does everything for him (no children), they do fun things together and the sex is better (this was told to me during one of his times at home), she has "pulled him in" while I have "pushed him away" (his words). But that's not why I'm writing. I'm writing now about the children.

I have a 3 year old son and now a 5 mth old daughter. I do not wish to keep my children from having a relationship with their father and he wants to see them too. But can you even try to understand the pain of having my verbal 3 yo come home and tell me all about what daddy and XXX did and where they went, etc.? He loves his daddy's whore (ooops. did I write that?) and I don't speak badly of her to him.

Now...the 5 mth old baby girl. I've written this before, but it literally makes me want to vomit thinking of OW holding my baby (so I try not to think about it). It's not that I think she'll harm her, but this infant was born into a broken family and to a very, very distraught mother - becaus of WH and OP. I'll be honest, I even thought about terminating the pregancy once I found out about the affair.

What right does OW have to be in the same room as my infant? I guess the right that my WH - being the sperm donor in this case - confers to her. Huh?

My WH has tried to tell me how wonderful "they" are with the children -- right, they're terrific parents. It's the pits. Whatever. I'm letting go. Anyone who does this is a creep. You're a creep. I'm moving on.

many people use kids as pawns, biological parents use, abuse, neglect, and distort their kids all the time. It is impossible to argue a particular person is a better or worse parent/influence in a child's life because they are a BS, WS, OP, or step-parent of any kinds. This thread is pretty much a bash fest serveing the personal agenda of the bashers. The fact that one derives satisfaction from character assasination says more about the them, than it does the one they seek to diminish.

Given the facts presented are true, the point I got from this post (and maybe I was wrong), was an op providing input that substantiates what I said in the paragraph above. By any standard she seems to be an excellent parent to her non-biologic child (and is trusted and acknowledged so by the xw, case closed in terms of this board and the natural bias of the resident BS). If that were not possible (being a good step-parent), than adoptive parents could not provide good parenting either.

The risk I do see is this bonding by the child to tew, who is not married to her dad. This is an unstable enviroment (in terms of long term stability), and I am sure would be painful for the child if they do not marry (and seperate). I don't have a solution for that, the child needs this caring enviroment, cannot just be put on hold while all the adults figure out how to live the rest of their lives. Tew, if you are guilty of anything (and it is hard to fault you for this), it is allowing yourself to become a primary figure to this little girl (byn your loving behaviour, and parenting skills) until it was clear you are permanent. Marriage usually means that, least by intent, living together is not a stable enviroment. But is really hard to fault anyone for caring and responding to a child.

For those who say you further your cause (marriage to FMM) by attachments to his daughter, family, etc. I say, of course she does, that is what people do, that is what everyone does, focus on the person in their life. This man comes with a 2 yo daughter, tew is a caring person, and she is supposed to care about the little girl, why is this a bad thing? That it will make the man feel more attracted to her, of course, she is meeting an EN. Now if she was secretly plotting to get his money through marriage or some other nefarious motive, and was faking her caring about his daughter for further that goal, yeah pretty bad, but that sure does not seem to be the case.

btw, do people even read was written anymore. Taking her to task for supposedly trying to justify herself by pointing out the very behaviour you critizize her for the ex does too, just seems like she is holding you accountable for fairplay. The point being that in this circumstance her "status" is as stable as anyone elses, so what should they all do, just give the little girl up for adoption and or ignore her? Criticism without a point (solution) is just self-serving bashing IMO.

I too would like those who typicaly wish ill on marriages that have some component of infidelity (using the definition they had any contact at all while married to others, whether seperated, estranged, whatever) in their history, to go on the record as to whether they wish this illwill, immorality, etc., on all such marriages including the many here who have that history as well. Do they advocate every such marriage is without merit, should end, and those people are all without value, moral, ethical, or otherwise. That only people with no current/past (the future is another matter) history of infidelity are superior individuals and have superior marriages solely on that basis?

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

I don't think anybody would say that we feel morally superior to those advocating affairs and utter selfishness.

But it's sin dad gum it. It's wrong. It's plain wrong to rip up a family.

And I think it's especially harmful and reckless when kids are involved.

And I agree with the sentiment that it makes me utterly nauseous when I think of Ms. Family Values (another OW shacking up with a married man trying to "pretend" to be the good mom while she's really a practically nude model in men's publications....really <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

It makes me wanna vomit, hurl, when I think that she spanked my child last month...Or held my child. I am dealing with this legally when the time comes.

REalize OW here, that you're not her momma. You never will be even if you steal the last name of her father. Stop overstepping your boundaries until marriage and then only proceed as a step parent.

Get your roles straight ok? And leave the wife alone because she's been through enough and this little girl will probably need counseling when she's older to deal with the crap you put on her.

It's the sin and the stupidity of choices that makes me angry. Adultery is wrong period. But when you end a marriage just because you wanna hop in the sack with somebody else just try to not do to somebody with kids ok...Hear that OP?

And FC is totally right about the you took my apple so I stole your book thing.

You ripped apart a family. Your presence here is hurtful and it's obvious you don't know anything about the fog period.

Tick tock...Tick tock..Time's a wastin. Quicksand is getting deeper and deeper and your little house of lies is sinking day by day.

I'm sorry lady! But I'm totally agreeing with Peachyinga on this one!

You knew the man was married!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have postd my story here several times so I am not going to try to justify my role as the FOW. FMM and his XW really should have never married. They both have admitted that. However, that did not make it right to engage in a relationship w/ him once I learned he was married. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds a lot like justification to me!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> To have you post here, I find appalling. How can you say that you have her heart in your heart. You had sex with her father while she was married to her mother. So now that you are proclaiming to be a good OW, this gives you right to say the biological mother is failing as a mother.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very appalling!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Go be clueless somewhere else...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes please, go be clueless somewhere else!
Don't post here! Don't try to find acceptance or justification here!

Tew,

I'm glad to hear that you are taking good care of your live-in's daughter. There are many who do not have the capacity to love a child that is not biologically theirs. You seem to have a genuine bound with this child; I hope you will consider that with such bonds comes responsibility. If you continue to develop this relationship and then disappear, you will make this child a two-time loser.

Marriages are fragile, and they seem to be falling apart everywhere. These blended families are inevitable, but I wonder what the outcome(s) will be. All this chaos in children's lives cannot be good. I have no answers, but I read this discussion with sadness, for all involved.

Adultery is selfish. A lot of things in life are that way. There are not many saints in this world. I personally don&#8217;t know of any. You had an affair with a married man, took this man from his wife, broke up his children&#8217;s family, (this is sounding very negative, sorry), and took him for yourself to create a new family. You have added to the misery that is life. But, it is done. You can&#8217;t relive the past, you can learn from it; I&#8217;m sure you don&#8217;t plan to do it again. I don&#8217;t think you need to be branded with a scarlet A on your clothes and ostracized from society.

Be careful out there, life is messy. Especially when the effluvia is spewed upon children.

I wish you the best.

Again, I want to thank all of the posters. I will get back soon to post. My FDSD is still sick. Doctor diagnosed her as having an upper respiratory infection of a viral nature. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I think that is what doctors always claim when not sure why child is sick. At least he gave her some antibiotics. Hopefully that will keep her temp down. She has been febrile every 4-6 hours since Thursday.

One quick comment to those worried about the fact that we have yet to marry and I will vanish from this child's life. Not going to happen. As I stated before FMM had a hard time seeeing his 11-year-old son. I helped him get his rights however, the boy's mother is always in violation of the Court Order. FMM wants both kids to be at ceremony. We have court AGAIN on July 22. Depending on what the judge does we will marry in Aug or Sept - or the first time we get both kids together again.

I will respond to all the posts as soon as I can. FDSD is asleep w/ FMM in the back room, but I have to run a few errands and cook dinner while my hands are free. tew

O.k. now that supper is done and the kids are fed I can respond: I agree - I read your post with the biological mother to not be doing her job right.
For your info I wasn't screwing her daddy at that time. I had cut off all physical contact as I was seeing someone else. And I am smart enough to keep little children out of grown people's business. Thus she has no idea in her mind when and if we had sex then, or even now.
Again I ask what statement in my post are you basing this on?

Do you see what you have put this child through?

I have put this child through nothing

She is holding on to anyone right now, cause her life is so warped.

How is her life warped? She isn't even 2 yet? So she is doomed to a lifetime of anger and maladjustment because her mother and father divorced and are now happy w/ other people? What if he had died? I assure you she sees her life as normal. As my great-grandma stated "you can't miss what you can't measure". I don't think I ever understood that until now. Those that live different than us in our eyes may be warped, but in their eyes they are normal. For example, most families maintain some degree of modesty. To them, this is normal and right. However, some families are raised in nudist camps. to them, this is normal and right - even though to us it may be warped. My FDSD has no concept of the nuclar family. Nor is she aware of a divorce, infidelity, or anything else. Her family is normal to her. She has never went w/out prolonged contavt from her daddy. They are quite bonded.

To have you post here, I find appalling. How can you say that you have her heart in your heart.

Again, where did I state this? I have every right to post here. I am respectful to all and I do not go after other posters to hurt them. If I see a post I can not add aything productive to I do not post there period. In the 2 years I have posted at MB I have seen many a BS post a ? to OP. If no OPs were welcomed here at MB, who wuld answer these questions. Sometimes it is good to get everyone's viewpoint.
You had sex with her father while she was married to her mother. So now that you are proclaiming to be a good OW, this gives you right to say the biological mother is failing as a mother.

Again, where did I state she is "failing as a mother". Do you always put words into other people's mouths/posts? If so this must really frustrate the communications w/ the people in your pvt life.
This little girl has so much pain in her body.

And you are basing this on what??? She is 2.
She loves her daddy and her mommy. And you seem to think that there is nothing wrong with this little girl. Wait, wait till she grows up more and is able to express her anger.

As I stated before to her this is normal. It is the way it has always been. It is not as if she lived in a happy, well adjusted, 2 parent household for 15 years and then all of a sudden had it yanked away from her.

I know what the bimbo in Arizona did to my kids, my family. My kids are deeply hurt, and angry. I have 4 kids from 17-24 and you haven't seen the hurt and anger expressed. My kids speak with foul language, of course they heard their dad speak to them with unthoughtfulness. And the bimbo in Arizona did this to another family, besides ours. She is a warped woman.

She may be. You know her better than me. I will take your word for it. Your H should not speak to the kids like that either. However, that does not make all OP "warped". Because your kids are angry does not mean they all are. And a lot of times I think the angry parent passes this on to her kids - some intentionally, some not. I know someone told me recently that her 5-year-old did not want to go to Walt Disney w/ his doting father and his new woman. I think that was a lie. Most 5-year-olds would go to Disney w/ the devil himself just to get to go. I think the 5-year-old stated this as not to hurt his mother as she goes on and on and on and on about how evil this OW is/was etc. I imagine this 5-year-old would feel guilty if he expressed a fondness for his OW - almost as if it would mean being disloyal to his mother. She may be. You know her better than me. I will take your word for it. Your H should not speak to the kids like that either. However, that does not make all OP "warped". Because your kids are angry does not mean they all are. And a lot of times I think the angry parent passes this on to her kids - some intentionally, some not. I know someone told me recently that her 5-year-old did not want to go to Walt Disney w/ his doting father and his new woman. I think that was a lie. Most 5-year-olds would go to Disney w/ the devil himself just to get to go. I think the 5-year-old stated this as not to hurt his mother as she goes on and on and on and on about how evil this OW is/was etc. I imagine this 5-year-old would feel guilty if he expressed a fondness for his OW - almost as if it would mean being disloyal to his mother.

So while you were screwing with this little girls daddy, and she thought she had a mommy/daddy in tact, did you feel the same about her, and what you were doing to this precious little mind?

For your info I wasn't screwing her daddy at that time. I had cut off all physical contact as I was seeing someone else. And I am smart enough to keep little children out of grown people's business. Thus she has no idea in her mind when and if we had sex then, or even now.

No, the affair was in full force, and you didn't give one hoot about anyone but you and him. So for you to come on and say the two of you are doing good, and taking good care of precious little 2 year old is a bunch of crap.

No, actually it is our truth. And thankfully his XW realizes their daughter is in great hands when in our care - especially mine. For example, she had the opportunity to agree to change visitation days as due to his work schedule the baby is left alone w/ me for 36 of the 72 hours she is here. Yet she chose not to. I am a betrayed spouse of 25 years to a man that i gave my body and soul to. This was the only man I had in my life ever. I waited till I thought I had a decent man. I was mistaken and now I pay for his deceit, lies, and continued lies. My kids are angry, show their father care, and basically find their father still is lieing to me. I tell them direct answers, I show them proof if they want it. I show them, how I am not going to beable to survive. I show these kids the deceit and the lies still going on. I had a talk with my son today, and I have the paperwork to show him that we cannot survive on alimony.

I do not agree w/ the fact that your H is not telling you the truth. That is wrong. Do you work? Can you get a job or go to school? I think you are wrong to burden your children w/ the facts of finances. This is too much information for them. The adults should deal w/ it. While 24-years-old is technically an adult I do not believe he /she should be weighted down w/ issues of the parents. Cut back on your expenses. It is amazing what you can learn to live w/out.

This is the betrayed spouses story. We are the ones that are hurt. You had fun, and were not lied to. You were not faced with the man you loved and his betrayal. I was told on the phone numerous times by the other woman, that she didn't love my husband. That she was going to commit suicide for if my husband at the time and I were going to tell her husband about her affair. She told me she couldn't tell her husband cause this was her 2nd time doing this in her marriage. Yes, the first one was a minister. My x-husband fell for a (whore) bimbo adutlerous Arizona woman. How do you think this made me feel. He fell for a woman that was not committed, that used him. I was commiitted and was used by my husband. Yes, he used me, and I could prove to you here the things that he did, and spent thousands of dollars on this bimbo. While I worked my A$$ of and she sat at home and was a stay at home mom and told my husband that she didn't work. Cuase she didn't want to work, she was a lazy fat bimbo.

She sounds like a real loser. And I understand that you as the BS are hurt. However, you are not destroyed. As I told my mother the other day (her H left her after 19 years and she feels old and frumpy) it is still possible for her to be happy and in love again.
What lowers you in most peoples eyes here is the fact that your character is so demented that you feel that what you have done and are doing is OK. That you are able to say, I change her diapers, therefore there is nothing wrong with what I have done, and am doing. That "I will marry him, so what I did to get to this place is OK."

No, I am not saying infidelity is o.k. I am saying however that it did happen. We are going to move forward and make the best we can out of our lives.
No, I am not saying infidelity is o.k. I am saying however that it did happen. We are going to move forward and make the best we can out of our lives.
The lack of character... or at least what I perceive as character and a base of right over self is what bothers most people here. The ability for you to say that the end justifies the means... that she did it, so it is OK for me to do it.

I only brought that up as some posters were stating she was hurt because we are living together. Thus, I was providing the facts that she too is living w/ someone. I don't care to control what his XW does. I don't use what she does to justify what we did. We really didn't know about her EMRs till after they were separated.
Father,

The kids have a good relationship with their father and I try not to interfere. He does some manipulating out of his hatred toward me, but he is not a danger to them. He has been more active in their lives since the separation. Some is for show, some is legit. (If only he were as interested in them as his mother is ... oy.)

It is nice to know even though I am sure you are angry over his treatment of you during the M that you set that aside for the best interest of the children. I also completely know what you mean about parenting for show. My daughter's father has done that in the past.
No one can tell me I don't belong here, studying MB principles, just because I'm not married right now. I don't intend to be twice divorced, and I'm learning all I can to keep this love just like day one. So far, so good. I know where I failed my marriage, and I know what to look for (and look out for) in a partner. I know my EN's and his are not only compatible, they're durn near tw [/B] ins.

Please don't be so quick to judge, folks. If anyone out there has never made a bad choice, let them cast the first stone ...

Again thank you and best wishes to you and your partner.

dueinjan,
I have answered your posts on here before and believe we had a good dialogue. I also told you I thought it was too soon for H to expect the baby to be around the OW. I also answered your posts on the other board you visited that is dedicated to the OW. I hope you and your children are doing o.k.

sufdb,
The fact that one derives satisfaction from character assasination says more about the them, than it does the one they seek to diminish.

[B]Thank you for those observations and I agree 100%

btw, do people even read was written anymore.

I was wondering the same thing. I am continually accused of putting down her parenting, yet no one can state where this is in my posts.

Taking her to task for supposedly trying to justify herself by pointing out the very behaviour you critizize her for the ex does too, just seems like she is holding you accountable for fairplay.

Exactly - well stated.

I too would like those who typicaly wish ill on marriages that have some component of infidelity (using the definition they had any contact at all while married to others, whether seperated, estranged, whatever) in their history, to go on the record as to whether they wish this illwill, immorality, etc., on all such marriages including the many here who have that history as well. Do they advocate every such marriage is without merit, should end, and those people are all without value, moral, ethical, or otherwise. That only people with no current/past (the future is another matter) history of infidelity are superior individuals and have superior marriages solely on that basis?

That's the good ole christian mentality coming out in them - waiting on karma. And of course the MM that leaves is doomed in his new relationship. However, if he stays and works on the M he is transformed into Superhusband. If he stays w/ me naturally he will cheat on me. However, if he stays in M his W should not worry as he would surely not cheat on her again.

It makes me wanna vomit, hurl, when I think that she spanked my child last month...Or held my child. I am dealing with this legally when the time comes.

This is a no no. I have many rights (legally) as far as my FDSD is concerned. However, it is not my right to use corpal punishment w/ his child. I don't even use it on mine, but I'd never do this to someone else's child. Physical discipline is a highly personal choice. You have every right to be angry.
REalize OW here, that you're not her momma. You never will be even if you steal the last name of her father. Stop overstepping your boundaries until marriage and then only proceed as a step parent.

Where have I overstepped my boundaries? She is in my care 3 days a week - of that 36 hours on our own??? I do all that I am supposed to. WHERE HAVE I OVERSTEPPED MY BOUNDARIES????????

Get your roles straight ok? And leave the wife alone because she's been through enough and this little girl will probably need counseling when she's older to deal with the crap you put on her.

How have I messed w/ the W? And what have I put on the baby?
It's the sin and the stupidity of choices that makes me angry. Adultery is wrong period. But when you end a marriage just because you wanna hop in the sack with somebody else just try to not do to somebody with kids ok...Hear that OP?

Perhaps you should tell this to Miss Family Values. I wan't married. Nor, did I have it within my power to end a marriage - only the 2 people married could have done that.
Hereandnow,
I'm glad to hear that you are taking good care of your live-in's daughter. There are many who do not have the capacity to love a child that is not biologically theirs. You seem to have a genuine bound with this child; I hope you will consider that with such bonds comes responsibility. If you continue to develop this relationship and then disappear, you will make this child a two-time loser.

Yes. I am also glad we have bonded and that I have love for her. Before I met her and began caring for her I wondered if we would really take to each other. However, she is a real jewel.

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 07:40 AM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doctor diagnosed her as having an upper respiratory infection of a viral nature. At least he gave her
some antibiotics. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is one reason why there are so many antibiotic-resistant bacteria. No decent doctor would prescribe antibiotics for a child whom he believed did not have a bacterial illness.

The more I read of this, the more I suspect that this story has no basis in fact. Among other reasons, I find the fact that the real mother is allowing this woman to take care of her sick baby more than a bit hard to swallow. Not to mention the fact that the vast majority of child psychiatrists would strongly recommend against a visitation plan for an infant that involved long periods spent in one household, followed by long periods in another. Very frequent short visitations (as in an evening) are recommended by every source I have seen.

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

I feel like the problem isn't that you don't love this little child. I suspect you do. My problem is that you were obviously part of the problem that caused this little child to have you in her life. Had you had a sense of morality, you would never have insinuated yourself into a marriage. Therefore, whether or not he would have 'just taken someone else' is immaterial, it is like saying 'someone was going to steal that car, might as well be me.'

Now I am glad that given the circumstances, that you like this girl, and have enough compassion to be there for her. But I ask you... what would you have thought if this had happened to your children. I also have another question... did your first marriage end as a result of your infidelity either this one or another? Because, you see... my feeling is that once you cross that line, it is much easier to stay on the other side.

And as far as your response...

I am sorry... I stopped at the remark about </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "you can't miss what you can't measure". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is the absolute WORST thing I have ever heard. She will be fine because she doesn't know any better. That is like saying that a starving child doesn't deserve nourishment because she has never known a full stomach. To say that just because her family was torn apart, she never deserved to have had one, because she never knew one, is perhaps the most self centered, and self serving thing I have ever heard anyone say. I know you didn't STATE this, but the implications are clear. She thinks everything is 'quite normal'... Perhaps this is the same reasoning you used to determine that your affair with a married man was 'no big deal'.

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 11:14 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

I learned from my brother recently that he was the OM.

He married the WS after her divorce. They were married for a few years and had one daughter. (she has another daughter from her previous marriage)

He's now divorced. Why? His wife cheated on him.

Imagine that.

"If they can do it with you, they can do it to you."

Good luck, oh clueless one.