I agree with FC and some of the above posters. The fact that you show no remorse about taking part in the breakdown of a family is what is bothering us, especially those who fought with everything they had to keep their families together. I am not saying you shouldn't be a good step parent to this little girl, but I do think good taste calls for you not to pretend you didn't have anything to do with something that will impact her negatively for the rest of her life. Coat it anyway you want it, but divorce is hard hard hard on kids. That is the reality that myself and many other single parents here have come to know. We are not naive enough to suggest that every single couple stay together only for the children, but we do know that in most cases, it is best for children to have two parents together, devoted to their children, putting their children before their own desires, and working together to making a marriage work, for themselves AND for the children. Infidelity thwarts (did I spell that correctly??) such attempts. I think that is what is bringing out the impassioned responses here. Good luck.
Krista

If we hold one sin higher than, another then we are being morally superior. God is the only judge. Sin is sin and we have ALL sinned. It hurts me that my brothers and sisters in Christ choose to say such hurtful things to others. Please go back and read how Jesus treated others.

If you are a Christian then God's principles are the only principles that should be applied in your
life. I hurt for you because you are missing Jesus' message. We are to love one another. We are to love those that do us wrong. We are to love others more than ourselves. We are to be Christ to the world. What kind of testimony are you giving when you judge and condemn others as you are doing? No wonder Christians have a bad name to many.

I am not talking to nonbelievers here, I am talking to believers. I am grieved by your statements. So much judging and condemnation.

I am glad God is my only judge. Many, including yourselves ,would be in bad shape if you were doing the judging.

I am not saying these sins are alright. ALL sin is wrong. We ALL have and do sin. Please remember that you will be judged as you have judged.

Please look past your hurt and bitterness and see Jesus.

No, I am not a WS. I am a follower of Jesus Christ that is burdened by what I have read here. He will humble the proud. Blessed are the peacemakers. Let God be God. Let God deal with the sin. All we can do is be Jesus to the world, no matter what the world does to us.

gentle

<small>[ June 16, 2003, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tewjtm:
<strong>O.k. now that supper is done and the kids are fed I can respond:</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just wanted to comment that it was really hard to tell what you were quoting and what you were responding.

If you can put a <quote> and </quote> or even <B> and </B> around what you're quoting, it would help a lot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(Sorry, substitute [] for <> above... don't know the code for [] so that it will show on the board without converting to quoted or bold text!!)

Nellie,
Wow! I have been posting on 2 different web sites about my life for 2 plus years to dupe the good people here at MB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Get a grip. The doctor gave her the antibiotics as prevention. He saw her, heard the symptoms, and made the diagnosis. I live in small town Georgia. I can assure you antibiotics are overly prescribed as the good country folk believe they need them (for any and every thing)- even when they don't. The MDs comply as they need the money (my mom is a md so i am quite aware of what you are talking about. She has stated for years that antibiotics are overly prescribed and they only treat the bacterial infections. However, due to the unusually prolongd temp I am glad she rec'd the Cefaclor). However, in this case I believe it was a good call as she has been running the temp since Thursday - although she has now been afebile for the last 12 hours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This same old time country pediatrician also told a good friend of mine it was ok to feed her baby rice cereal in his bottle as Ga babies are hungry and need to eat. I was angry as I had been telling her for weeks not to do this as his 2-month-old digestive sysstem could not process the food and that putting it in the bottle created the possibility of choking and decreased the later mechanics of spoon feeding.

I am also a little surprised the mother did not try to stop visitation due to the illness - even though the Parenting Plan strictly forbids such refusals. this is the first instance where this issue of his parenting time coincided w/ her being ill. I suppose his XW chose to let her stay here an extra day as it was the least of 2 evils. She is going to school and recently had to start doing clinicals as well. If she didn't leave her here, her teen-aged daughter would have had to keep her. Besides we will give her the day back. We have 3 days per week. Next week we will only take 2.

Regardless of what the experts state (although the ones we quoted stated a child of 2 should go no more than 3 days w/out contact w/ a parent) - the simple fact is we live in small town Georgia and whatever the Petitioner and Respondent agree on is usually entered in to the Court Order - unless it is totally off base. That is why he gets 3 days yet still pays 100% of CS.

FC,
No. My first M did not end as a result of infidelity. My H was not what he represented himself to be. When I found him out he became abusive and I left him on those grounds. Sorry if my comment offended you, it is just I am equally appalled at those that feel this child will suffer life-long damages as a result of her father not remaining married to her mother. It is a CONCEPT SHE HAS NO COMPREHENSION OF. SORT OF LIKE TRYING TO EXPLAIN O A BLIND PERSON THE MEANING OF THE WORD SOFT, OR THE COLOR BLUE.

Father,
So are you stating a BS should not take back their WS? After all if he cheated before, he will again? And quit stealing Dr. Phil's comments.

krista,
What could I do to show the proper amount of remorse to satisfy people here? It almost seems as if I have to refuse to marry FMM, kick him out, send him home to XW, and then I will have been deemed as having shown the proper amount of remorse.

I can assure you while I was in the EMR I did feel guilt. Old posts from another sire from over 1 1/2 years ago can give testimony to that. However, I did choose to continue this relationship based on the information I was given. I am not saying I was right to do so, nor am I saying I would do it again. However, I am now trying to make the most of it.

My post was to let others know that sometimes the OP or the NCP's SO can and does care for the CP's child/ren. And I stand by that.

gentle,
May God bless you.

princess,
Thanks for the suggestion. I am half-asleep, but did try to edit my post. I will check it later. I finally get to catch me a nap! tew

Tew,

First off, I&#8217;m not familiar with your story other than what you&#8217;ve stated on this thread. But it&#8217;s like you started this thread to start a fight. Why would you do something like that? Now maybe you had good intentions but obviously common sense didn&#8217;t enter into the picture. But as I see it, forcing you views seems and justifying actions seems to be a past time. Not to mention denial of reality. You can go back through every post I&#8217;ve ever written and you&#8217;ll see that I&#8217;m not one to throw rocks or get in argument, actually you&#8217;ll see that I&#8217;ve been nothing more than an advocate for children, marriage, and my Savior. Which it seems that all three have crept into this thread.

So let me get this straight about Prince Charming. He has a 11yo child, whom he doesn&#8217;t see often. Then he gets married to another woman and brings another kid into the world. And during what is the most precious time of a child&#8217;s life goes out and screws around on his wife. THEN moves into a shack-up relationship. AND this is the man you wish to marry? You know what he sounds like a perfect role-model, you should marry him and have many children together. I&#8217;m quite sure that he&#8217;ll be content to stay with you, that is until the next best thing comes along. Is there a reason you see no red-flags in this relationship? Or have you gotten so enthralled with &#8220;quest&#8221; that you&#8217;ve lost sight of the path?

I&#8217;m truly sorry that God was brought into this discussion. I&#8217;m also terribly sorry that real live human children are involved. The only thing that saddens me more that the terrible things we do to others or to ourselves is the injustices that we flaunt in front of the innocent children. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

Bill

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tewjtm:
<strong>Father,
So are you stating a BS should not take back their WS? After all if he cheated before, he will again? And quit stealing Dr. Phil's comments.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The BS may take back the WS IF the WS clearly demonstrates that what they did was selfish, wrong, and destructive and further demonstrates that they are ready to make the marriage right again. The WS MUST demonstrate that they are sincere and will do the proper work to be trusted again. You have no clue how destructive affairs are. All you were told by your WS is everything his XW was doing wrong in his feeble attempt to somehow justify what he's done and get what he wants out of you. It is true that the BS AND the WS contributed to the decay of the marriage, but the WS completely destroyed the marriage. You can not take what Harley says out of context. Meeting needs is important, but affairs are not the fault of the BS. Affairs are solely the responsibility of the WS. The WS should have communicated what was wrong with the marriage or get a divorce before pursuing others.

I AM NOT STEALING Dr. Phil's comments. Notice that I quoted it the way I've heard it. Dr. Phil just repeated what he heard. Even he prefaces his saying with something like "have you every heard..."

Well, I've wasted enough breath.

You will only understand in time.

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: father of 1, husband of 0 ]</small>

God is not brought into anything. He is always here wheather we desire Him to be or not. For this I am thankful.

I will never feel guilty for menitoning His name. As a Christian that is my calling. Without Him there is nothing. He is my life and I will recognize him in ALL things. I will not put Jesus on a shelf. He can't be put on a shelf. He is here. His teachings always apply to us as His followers.

In Him,

gentle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by gentle:
<strong>God is not brought into anything. He is always here wheather we desire Him to be or not. For this I am thankful.

I will never feel guilty for menitoning His name. As a Christian that is my calling. Without Him there is nothing. He is my life and I will recognize him in ALL things. I will not put Jesus on a shelf. He can't be put on a shelf. He is here. His teachings always apply to us as His followers.

In Him,

gentle</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gentle,

this is not a religious site. This is a site about marriage. But since you started it, here are my thoughts about your god.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 11:31 AM: Message edited by: Hereandnow ]</small>

Tew,
I've read all the posts on this thread, and I thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Sorry for long post....skip if you don't care to read it.

I believe marriage is a covenant you make with God. You may not have the same belief system, but when two people marry, they are promising (if they do so in a church wedding) to live with that person until "death do us part". I remember saying that in my wedding. That's what makes the marriage more sacred than "shacking up". If FMM & XW "should have never gotten married to begin with" then they should have never made this covenant with God. By virtue of them getting married, whether it was a mistake or not, they should have BOTH worked to make it last. Sounds like neither one did very much.
I agree that I would be skeptical of you building character in this child, at least by my standards. I'm not saying you are a bad person, but I am saying that i could see you possibly condoning an extramartial relationship should this little girl be faced with it later in life, especially if she were comtemplating sleeping with a married man "who should have never been married to begin with". By virtue of being the OW (a path you chose, by the way) you are condoning the end of a marriage, which should be (although not considered by many anymore) a sacred institution.

Even taking God out of the picture (which I don't like to do), if FMM and XW shouldn't have gotten married, then they should have ended it without involving other people. Children don't just "happen" to two people. Guess what? You have to have SEX to have them. Jesus is the only one I know who was born to a virgin. Apparently, the FMM & XW were having sexual intercourse when they conceived the 2 year old, and I doubt that both of them were saying "we should have never married, we're both cheating in this relationship, but let's have sex anyway". My guess is that at least one of them was still "in love" with the other.

I can speak from experience because my WXH and I had sex 2 nights before we broke up in September for good. I knew we were going through a rocky time, but I still LOVED him. In my mind, i was making love to the man I married, the man I loved, the man I was going to be with forever, the father of MY children. He was, I suppose, just fulfilling a need, as he proclaims to now be IN LOVE with the OW. My point is, whether or not they should have ever gotten married, they DID. That makes their covenant with God as important as anyone else's.

I realize not everyone follows my value system, but I was completely faithful to my XH. He wasn't. Does that make me a better PARENT? Not in and of itself; however, my XH has decided to put the OW ahead of his family, by leaving them in pursuit of this person. To me, that makes him selfish. He doesn't come to the kids' functions, either, spending with with OW. Do I think that is good for my boys? No, especially when he is supposed to be the one showing them how to become men.

Also, It seems to me that sex isn't important anymore. It's just something that people do. I may be really weird by today's society, but I feel sex is something you share between a husband and a wife. My Husband is the only one I've ever slept with, and I thank God for that. It's sad that sex has become so "unspecial".

I'm sad that this 2 year old has had this happen in her short life. She will have a hard time grasping the true value of a marriage with the role models she has--both parents living with other people. Children need more than just a physical provider..they need someone there to provide lessons in morals. I fully believe you care for this child, but this child is in your life for one reason only.......you are with her father. IMHO, his track record ain't that great, so I'd be concerned, because you, too, may be hurt later as if he "moves on", he'll take this little darling with him, and you'll be heartbroken x 2.

I'm glad this 2 year old has people who care for her in her life. Here is my question...my XH asked me once, during our marriage when I was questioning his "friendship" with what became the OW, "do you actually believe I would leave 2 little babies?" The boys were 2 and 3 at the time. My question to him now is...."what makes it different now that they are 6 and 7?" Children need parents. Period. I'm a high school teacher, and you would be amazed what teenagers have to live through, and I think a lot of it has to do with immmorality. I'm sorry, that's just my opinion.

Kids see and repeat what they see. That scares me to DEATH because MY kids see their father, and I certainly DON'T want them repeating his behavior. I pray for them constantly so that I can overcome what they see. They have 2 parents, and I want my kids to see at least one parent taking responsibility in raising them morally.

Sorry such a long post. I didn't mean to get carried away, but I get upset thinking of the ramifications on kids.

To answer your original question.......BS have a hard time accepting OW becoming care providers for their children. PERIOD. I believe if my XH leaves OW, repents of his behavior, and marries someone else, a loving Christian woman with great values (as I thought I married a Christian man) then I would have no problem with my children being in that household with that person. I do have a problem being with my XH and this OW who is not living a Christian life. Please don't pick apart my words here....I know people can profess to be Christians and still be bad for kids...I'm talking about if he finds someone who walks the Christian walk as well as talks the talk. Could OW repent and become a Christian woman? sure....and I'm praying for that now. Time will tell. However, i don't think they could continue their relationship if that happened because of what it was based on...I don't know...have to study more on that one.

When XH & I chose to have kids, we decided together to raise them in church. He has fallen from that, and I DO have a problem with this particular "OW" raising my kids. I wouldn't care if she took them to the doctor, disneyland, or gave them a million bucks. She participated in their father leaving his family. She pursued him...I had no clue I was in a competition, because if I did, I'd have fought differently.

Formerly Confused....I think we are two peas in a pod. I seem to always agree with everything you post. You seem to be a wonderful man with his head on straight. Good luck to you, and some lucky lady will be so fortunate to have you.

Gentle, you are just that..gentle. God is working in you.

Bill, You are awesome as well. You will make some lucky lady happy as well.

Thanks,
Kim

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: kimmy2 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kimmy2:
<strong>I'm sad that this 2 year old has had this happen in her short life. She will have a hard time grasping the true value of a marriage with the role models she has--both parents living with other people. Children need more than just a physical provider..they need someone there to provide lessons in morals. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is very young. I hope that it is easier on her now, than it would be if she were older.

My parents divorced when I was 7. Looking back, it was good that they did. Their relationship was no role model. My life was upside down for several years, until my mother remarried and regular visitation to dad was implemented.

By the time I reached high school, I had four "parents" to turn to. And my dad's longtime girlfriend was probably my best role model. They never officially lived together, but they might as well have for the time they spent together. My dad's big house was often deserted.

She was a widow of a pastor, and her faith has had a tremendous impact on my life. My father died over 10 years ago, and she is still "my other mom" and always will be. I can't recall a harsh word from her to me, ever. She never pushed her religious beliefs on me (I spent many years as an atheist), but lived her life as an example. When I finally turned to God, during a bleak downward slide in my marriage, she was my guide.

People make mistakes. I'm glad my parents did not stay married. Maybe someday my children will be glad that I did not stay married to their dad. They witnessed the abuse and I hope they are young enough to forget it. They have never expressed a desire for me to reunite with their dad (they are 5 and 8 now, prime time for that fantasy).

I am in no position to judge. Neither are many here who choose to. I am confident in my walk with God. I have tripped along the way, but He knows I try to follow the right path.

HereandNow,

I'm not going to get into a religious discussion with you, but Gentle's God is my God, too, so I have decided to repond.

I don't think that it is YOUR right to claim this is not a religious site, it is a marriage site (for that matter, after 10 posts you know exactly what should and should not be posted here?). For some of us, the two go hand in hand (religion and marriage). I disagree with your belief, but I won't say you haven't the right to espress your belief on this site. We all have our opinions on how to cope with things, and we all have life experiences to share to help others, so please, if Christianity isn't your bag, don't condemn those of us whose bag it is.

We are here to help restore our relationships, or learn to cope without them. If some of us cope as Christians, and we choose to gather on this site, then others should ignore it or not read it, although it is my OPINION that you are missing a lot if you choose to do that.

By the way, I'm adding you to my prayer list. I WILL pray for you although you haven't asked for it. Maybe one day you will find Him, and realize He is calling for you.

I have been reading these message boards for a few months now. I have always liked reading everyone's perspectives and really have learned quite a bit about my own divorce/ex husband. I have never really felt the need to register UNTIL today. I think that Tew has been treating unfairly on this board. She is in fact on the DIVORCED/DIVORCING site, not the Infidelity board. She appears, from what I have read, to be divorced and in a relationship with a divorced man. I think she has a right to post here (and anywhere else on this site). The purpose is to grow, teach and learn from everyones experiences that post here, not flame throw because she was involved in an affair...she wasn't MY ex-husbands girlfriend, and I recognize that.

Kimmy2 said:
"I don't think that it is YOUR right to claim this is not a religious site, it is a marriage site (for that matter, after 10 posts you know exactly what should and should not be posted here?)."

It is hard for me to make any sense out of that paragraph, but I will try to respond. This site is called Marriage Builders, not the Christian Evangelical Society. It is not my opinion that this is not a religious site, it is fact, it is not. It is a site devoted to saving marriages. Maybe you should read the FAQ? Are the number of my posts an issue for you? I wonder why?

"For some of us, the two go hand in hand (religion and marriage). I disagree with your belief, but I won't say you haven't the right to espress your belief on this site. We all have our opinions on how to cope with things, and we all have life experiences to share to help others, so please, if Christianity isn't your bag, don't condemn those of us whose bag it is."

Really, what is my belief? I never condemed anyone. I posted some questions. Care to answer them? Probably not, because in answering them you may have to think and thinking is not exactly conducive to faith, sometime anyway.

"We are here to help restore our relationships, or learn to cope without them. If some of us cope as Christians, and we choose to gather on this site, then others should ignore it or not read it, although it is my OPINION that you are missing a lot if you choose to do that."

I agree, we are here to restore our Marriages. You can do that while being a Christian, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist, or Jain or . . . a turtle.
I will not ignore blatantly Christian proselytizing; it is my right to say that it is complete bunk if that is how I perceive the issue, but I never said that by the way. And I don&#8217;t want to get into a discussion on who&#8217;s imaginary friend is better either.

"By the way, I'm adding you to my prayer list. I WILL pray for you although you haven't asked for it. Maybe one day you will find Him, and realize He is calling for you."

Thank you, that is very kind . . . in a passive-aggressive kind of way.

MB,
I am up now and am taking the children for a swim. I will respond upon our return. Special thanks to princess and New England. tew

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

I believe my post was very clear. I posted to believers , Christians. Since I was not talking to nonbelievers nor trying to convert anyone, I don't understand why my post would bother those that don't believe.

I don't care if this is a "religious" site or not. I have as much right to post my beliefs as anyone else. I will not hide my beliefs from anyone. That is how strong my faith is in my life.

I will not answer your questions for three reasons:

One, being what I said above, I am talking to Christians. I am not here to convert you. My post was meant for my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ and that seems to leave you out. That is your choice and I respect that.

Two, my post was not meant to start a "religious" debate for the same reason listed above.

Three, my God doesn't need defending.

I don't consider myself religious. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I will not leave Him out of anything just because someone suggest I should.

gentle

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LostHusband:
<strong>So let me get this straight about Prince Charming. He has a 11yo child, whom he doesn&#8217;t see often. Then he gets married to another woman and brings another kid into the world. And during what is the most precious time of a child&#8217;s life goes out and screws around on his wife. THEN moves into a shack-up relationship. AND this is the man you wish to marry? You know what he sounds like a perfect role-model, you should marry him and have many children together. I&#8217;m quite sure that he&#8217;ll be content to stay with you, that is until the next best thing comes along. Is there a reason you see no red-flags in this relationship? Or have you gotten so enthralled with &#8220;quest&#8221; that you&#8217;ve lost sight of the path?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Precisely! Well said!

Bill,
First off, I&#8217;m not familiar with your story other than what you&#8217;ve stated on this thread. But it&#8217;s like you started this thread to start a fight.
Nope, no desire to start a fight. Basically I have been reading a lot of threads where the CP is concerned about the safety of their children being around the OP. I wanted to let them know that it is possible for an OP to care for the children that do not belong to them. Simply put.

So let me get this straight about Prince Charming. He has a 11yo child, whom he doesn&#8217;t see often. Then he gets married to another woman and brings another kid into the world. And during what is the most precious time of a child&#8217;s life goes out and screws around on his wife. THEN moves into a shack-up relationship. AND this is the man you wish to marry? You know what he sounds like a perfect role-model, you should marry him and have many children together. I&#8217;m quite sure that he&#8217;ll be content to stay with you, that is until the next best thing comes along. Is there a reason you see no red-flags in this relationship? Or have you gotten so enthralled with &#8220;quest&#8221; that you&#8217;ve lost sight of the path?

Yes, he has an 11-year-old son. He never married the girl. He had the child as he was entering the army. He has paid CS since birth. Yes, it was stupid of both of these people to have sex w/out protection. However, I do believe they did the right thing by not marrying as neither of them loved the other. She married her HS sweetheart who she was on the outs w/ when she and FMM slept together. FMM was also ignorant in that he allowed this woman to control the nature of his visits w/ his son. He has always been part of his son's life, but when she agreed to it. He did not realize that he could go to court and Legitimte his son and have legal rights. He has now done so and we do have a visitation schedule that the BM is in Contempt of as we speak. He has 2 court dates in July - 1 for each child. He is active in his son's life. We were the only ones who even bothered to show up at his 5th grade graduation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Father,
The BS may take back the WS IF the WS clearly demonstrates that what they did was selfish, wrong, and destructive and further demonstrates that they are ready to make the marriage right again. The WS MUST demonstrate that they are sincere and will do the proper work to be trusted again. You have no clue how destructive affairs are. All you were told by your WS is everything his XW was doing wrong in his feeble attempt to somehow justify what he's done and get what he wants out of you. It is true that the BS AND the WS contributed to the decay of the marriage, but the WS completely destroyed the marriage. You can not take what Harley says out of context. Meeting needs is important, but affairs are not the fault of the BS. Affairs are solely the responsibility of the WS. The WS should have communicated what was wrong with the marriage or get a divorce before pursuing others.

But, that is not what is happening in a lot of the marriages here at MB. I have read post after post where the WS is being outrigt disrespectful to their spouses. Yet, these BSs are told to hold on and keep the faith. However, because I was the OP I am told my FMM is beneath redemption - that he will always be a cheater because he chose to leave a marriage. I AM NOT STEALING Dr. Phil's comments. Notice that I quoted it the way I've heard it. Dr. Phil just repeated what he heard. Even he prefaces his saying with something like "have you every heard..."

My bad. This was a cheap shot on my part. I was just frustrated as I feel I am misunderstood and judged too harshly. Ii apologize. Well,

kimmy2
I've read all the posts on this thread, and I thought I'd put in my 2 cents. Sorry for long post....skip if you don't care to read it.

I will always rad anything anyone takes the time and effort to post to me .

I believe marriage is a covenant you make with God. You may not have the same belief system, but when two people marry, they are promising (if they do so in a church wedding) to live with that person until "death do us part". I remember saying that in my wedding. That's what makes the marriage more sacred than "shacking up". If FMM & XW "should have never gotten married to begin with" then they should have never made this covenant with God. By virtue of them getting married, whether it was a mistake or not, they should have BOTH worked to make it last. Sounds like neither one did very much.

Not that it matters, but they married at the Courthouse after less than 4 months of knowing one another. After 2 months they both knew it was a mistake. He had moved out. He moved back due to pregnancy and tried to make it work. It was not meant to be.
I agree that I would be skeptical of you building character in this child, at least by my standards. I'm not saying you are a bad person, but I am saying that i could see you possibly condoning an extramartial relationship should this little girl be faced with it later in life, especially if she were comtemplating sleeping with a married man "who should have never been married to begin with". By virtue of being the OW (a path you chose, by the way) you are condoning the end of a marriage, which should be (although not considered by many anymore) a sacred institution.

No I would not condone her or my daughter engaging in a EMR. Another double standard of mine - do as I say, not as I did. All I can do is be here and support and care for her to the best of my ability. That I have, and will continue to do.
Even taking God out of the picture (which I don't like to do), if FMM and XW shouldn't have gotten married, then they should have ended it without involving other people. Children don't just "happen" to two people. Guess what? You have to have SEX to have them. Jesus is the only one I know who was born to a virgin. Apparently, the FMM & XW were having sexual intercourse when they conceived the 2 year old, and I doubt that both of them were saying "we should have never married, we're both cheating in this relationship, but let's have sex anyway". My guess is that at least one of them was still "in love" with the other.

I can speak from experience because my WXH and I had sex 2 nights before we broke up in September for good. I knew we were going through a rocky time, but I still LOVED him. In my mind, i was making love to the man I married, the man I loved, the man I was going to be with forever, the father of MY children. He was, I suppose, just fulfilling a need, as he proclaims to now be IN LOVE with the OW. My point is, whether or not they should have ever gotten married, they DID. That makes their covenant with God as important as anyone else's.

Of course they were having sex. Even in relationships gone sour you still have sex. they were married. They married in late August. He had moved out in early Nov. He moved back in mid Dec as she informed him she was pregnant.

I realize not everyone follows my value system, but I was completely faithful to my XH. He wasn't. Does that make me a better PARENT? Not in and of itself; however, my XH has decided to put the OW ahead of his family, by leaving them in pursuit of this person. To me, that makes him selfish. He doesn't come to the kids' functions, either, spending with with OW. Do I think that is good for my boys? No, especially when he is supposed to be the one showing them how to become men.

It is a shame that your H treats the boys that way. My daughter's father is the same way. However, FMM is not like that. He always sees his kids. In the beginning before we got the Court Ordered visitation he would go to the W's home 3 or 4 times a week and see the baby while she was at work.