I posted a few days ago about my wife asking for a separation, and not wanting or having any energy to put into our marriage anymore. I have not moved out yet, but have been looking hard for a place to stay, somewhere that is not depressing and not somewhere that will make my 12 year old feel that we have lost everything that we have.

Anyway, after a long time of my wife hinting that I should see a counselor and work on issues that I have, that have driven her away, I finally made an appointment with a counselor yesterday and had my appointment today. I honestly and truly would do just about anything to save our marriage. I know that I have not followed through on taking the steps to work on my problems: being manipulative and controlling, not opening up to my wife when I have problems, not taking control and charge of my own problems (instead of dumping on her to tell me exactly the steps that I must take), and literally not doing anything that she needs to feel closer to me.

My question is how can I convince her that I really can change these behaviors? I would go to counseling every week for the rest of my life if that is what it will take. But now that she has told me that she has given up, and probably has waited long enough for me to work on me getting better.

I'm afraid to ask her "What if I did all of these things, would you be willing to work on us and give us one last chance?" Should I move out anyway for now at this point, regardless? My counselor said that I should tell her that I love her and I would do anything that it takes, tell her the things that I know that I am not giving her, and that I am actively working on these things (and will continue to actively work on these things.) It's been kind of sad around here lately since she asked me for a separation, and I'm afraid that this has contributed to her being even less likely to consider ever working on our marriage again.

I would appreciate anyone's input. Thanks

I talked to wife today, and told her that I am aware of my issues. I told her I saw my counselor, and that he is helping me work on strategies to deal with my issues/problems. As per my counselor's advice, I told her that if I could prove to her that, by my actions, that I am changing and not doing these destructive behaviors anymore, would she be willing to try to work on our marriage. I told her that I loved her, and I wanted to make our marriage work, even if I moved out for now. I asked her if I actually did start proving to her (by my actions) that I was improving and resolving my issues that caused problems for us, would she be willing to work on our marriage again. I also said that I loved her and that I needed to carry my own problems on my own shoulders, and not expect her to have to do this for me, and that I would do anything for our marriage, even if it meant seeing a counselor every week for the rest of my life. I asked her, would that ever make a difference to her in working one last time on our marriage. She said that she couldn't imagine feeling any different, and that she really didn't think that she could do anything else for our marriage. I told her, ok, I respect your opinion, but thought I would tell her this, and that this time I would do this for myself, even if it didn't make a difference in our marriage.

She says that she just has nothing left to give, and just wants more than anything just to be alone, and thinks that maybe she doesn't want to be with anyone in the future.

At this point, is there any reason to ask for a trial separation, and just ask her how she feels in six months, or should I just move on and keep my emotional distance for good. Should I just tell her that we should go ahead and file for divorce? She has been quite clear with me, but says she still thinks I would be a good friend. Hard to understand that she thinks that I could still be a good, if I have let her down so much throughout our marriage?

Any one out there...I could sure use some advice>

Gregg,
I was where your wife is just 6 months ago. I had given up and completly withdrew emothionally from my relationship for the same reasons your wife states.

My H had some major issues and it was easier for him to not face it than to take charge of his life and do something about it. Finally, around Dec, 12,2002 he came to me and asked what was going to happen to us. I told him I was finished and was going to file for DV. He asked if I had filed and I told him not yet but yes I was going to file. We talked for a couple of hours and he still said if I could just see things the "right" way and not from my perspective everything would be ok. I said, "This is just what I cannot deal with" and left it at that. I was soooo finished it wasn't funny. 22 years of marriage. He threw a fit and packed some of his things and then that night he came to me and asked "What do I need to do to make this work and be able to stay"? I layed it on the line but I did not want to work on it. It took me too long to get over it all and come the decision to file. Well, to make a long story short, we saw the counselor together and she was blown away that I had decided to give it another chance. I had been seeing her for sometime for myself and the situation. I told him at the counselor that I was finished and not up to rebuilding a too tired relationship but I would give him another chance. We could start over, all issues of the past erased and I would give it another chance but he would have to win me back and he had no room for errors. This sounds very demanding, but keep in mind I didn't even want to try again at this point. I told God that I would leave room for a change of heart if that's what was meant to be but I didn't want it.

Well I have to say it took me a long time to have romantic feelings for him again even tho he did everything "right" I told him he would have to be patient and not expect too much too soon from me but I would try.

It is 6 months later now and I have to say things could not be much better. A lot of people told me he would not change and if he did it would not last. I do believe he has changed and I do believe it will last. Our relationship is different in a lot of aspects but better.

I am really glad I gave him another chance. And the reason it worked is because he wanted it bad enough to do what ever it took to get it. I love him very much and have so much respect for him for helping himself. I don't know what condition your spiritual life is in but I can tell you that without God in our relationship we wouldn't be together right now and we would have both lost.

Hope this helps. Don't give up yet. I do believe there is hope for your situation.

Free

Gregg,

When my husband left 3 years ago, he said he would never come back. He said the same things when I told him I would change. He filed for divorce and I was very broken. I cried out to God to show me how to be a good wife and how to restore my marriage. The following web site was suggested many times but it took me a little while to go. When I did go, I knew it was were God wanted me to go.

A few days after finding this web site and reading some of the testimonies, God led me to not show up for a pre-trail hearing. My husband didn't show up either and the judge passed on the motion.

It has been a long road. We are still not divorced. A year ago my husband was still telling others that the divorce will happen.

A few weeks ago I felt led to talk to my husband about how I was feeling about him. Instead of the "I am never coming home", I just got silence. He said nothing, he just listened. A few days later we were talking about a friend that had gotten divorced and had been very upset. During that conversation, my husband said that he didn't know why he didn't do anything one way or another. He said he is just in limbo and cannot answer people when they ask him when he is going to do something about our marriage. This is a really big change. Going from I will never ever to I don't know why, is a big change.

We get along better now than ever and do things together. Our friends say it is as if we are already back together.

They all say they are never coming home, most say I don't love you anymore. And many of these same people come back home and realize they still love their spouse.

Our marriages didn't get messed up overnight and they can't be fixed overnight. It takes time to heal brokenhearts and broken promises. I found I could not do it on my own. I had to have God's help.

It took time for my husband to see changes in me. It took even longer for him to begin to believe the changes were for real and for good. You will never be able to convince your wife you will change. You will have to let God make real changes in you for them to last.

Please go to this site and read the testimonies of restored marraiges. I know you will find many that sound like your situation.

www.restorem.org

I know my husband will be home soon and our marriage will be better than it ever was before. All it took was allowing God to work in and thru me. I had to stop saying anything to my husband about our marriage. God has already done many great things in my life. He has healed my relationship with my in laws and done so much more.

gentle

GreggC I am in almost the exact same situation as you are.

Gregg,

Free posted about the same time I did. I agree with what she said and believe it falls in line with what I siad.

My husband was so tired of old stuff that he would not give it another chance. Like Free's husband, I go to the point that I would do whatever it took to restore my marriage. Since my husband would not give me the chance, I had to go to God. I didn't have a relationship with God when this all started. Everyone told my husband that I would never change also. I hate to hear someone say this about anyone because I have learned, God can change anyone. God made me willing to change.

I know my marriage will be restored and that it will be a much better marriage because God is the center of my life and He will be the center of our marriage.

Yes, my husband had made mistakes also and didn't have God as the center of his life. But I had to deal with my mistakes and left my husbands mistakes to GOd. The blame game destroys marriages. I took my blame and left his to God.

gentle

Free,

On behalf of ALL the spouses who did not get the chance you gave your husband, God bless you - God Bless you and your husband and your marriage! So many of us were/are in the same position as your husband was, but unfortunately our partners did not have enough faith in their lives to trust and have faith that God can and will restore a broken relationship, and that if given the chance LOVE CAN conquer all!

Even though things did not work out for me the first time around, I still believe in love - stories like yours show us all that NOTHING is impossible with God.

God Bless,
Mike

Thanks, Free!

It's good to see that there could be some hope at least.

A few things that are just kind of tricky here. She already asked if I would move out, and I have told her I would and I have been actively looking around for somewhere to move to. It seems kind of difficult to change the separation part at this time. Would it be a good (or bad idea, for that matter)to revist me possibly not moving out, as she has been quite clear about wanting this so far?

Also, should I be telling her about other people's experiences, such as Free's? Maybe if I told her about this, this would be like I was pressuring her even more to work on things? Maybe I should just keep quiet about what I am learning from this forum, and just let her see my progress from my actions, and maybe just check in with her once a week (how ever hard it may be, once I move out?)

The temptation is also to be open to seeing other people if the opportunity should arise, and to not rule this out, since she says she has given up. Should I simply not date anyone, regardless if the opportunity comes up. Not that I am going to go out and get into a relationship with the next woman I meet.

Thanks for all your advice.

GreggC

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

Sorry Bnugg. I know it's not much fun is it? Do you have any hope, and what have you been doing about your situation.

GreggC

Thanks, Gentle for the website. I will check it out.

I feel that I have gotten closer to God that before,and that my wife has been a key factor in that. However, ever since things have been really rough, I don't feel that she is as close to God. Maybe that is the problem, but maybe she prays and just doesn't tell me.

I wishshe would leave it up to God to heal our marriage, but I don't think that is the case.

Hi GreggC,
First of all if you are interested in restoring your marriage I say DON"T date anyone else, even if she does. It will only add complications down the road and it is just wrong.

The seperation, especially if she wants it, might not be a bad thing. It will give you both time to think and ponder all that has happened and what really is important to you and her as well. It will also give some breathing room and eliminate potential arguements and love busting.

The third piece of advice is pray, pray and pray some more. You can't change her mind but chances are when she starts seeing changes in you she will at least give everything a second thought. It may not happen overnight and there is a small chance it may not happen at all. Strange as it may seem, your focus should be mostly on yourself at this point. It's good to pray for her, but ask God to show you what you need to do for yourself as well as your marriage.

Marriage is one place where two halves don't make a whole. Each partner needs to be whole to begin with. We don't complete each other, we compliment each other, unless of course we are co dependent which goes back to two halves. A marriage should be an interdependent relationship. If we depend on each other for giving 50 %, what happens when one falls, becomes weak or ill?

You have shouldered most of the blame here. And maybe you are more to blame, I do not know. I do know in my situation, my H was very verbally and emotionally and occasionally physically abusive. He was a very mean person. But I put up with it for a long time (20 years) before I gave up and got fed up. That says something about my sate of being as well. I had prayed for God to change him, open his eyes and everything else. Nothing ever changed or lasted. By giving up completly, I believe I gave God the room to work. I didn't care anymore about the relationship but I did care about myself. I had to become mentally healthy enough and strong enough to survive. God did work a miracle here and in the process I became a whole person and so did my H.

Life is not perfect but our relationship is very solid at this point. In becoming stronger myself, I was able to let my guard down and trust him again. When I was in a weak state of mind I was very suspicious of his every move and motive (with good reason I might add) because I was so dependent on him and did not ever want my marriage to end.I have discovered we can never love anyone more than we love and trust ourself. I don't know if that makes sense. We have to discover our own weaknesses and fears to understand why we react to things the way we do.
Sometimes it is easier to control what is going on around us than to control or trust ourself if things go contrary to what we want. I truly believe the most contolling person is the one who is not sure of himself but won't acknowledge, accept and change it.

You can't fix a broken marriage with broken people. You sound like you are ready to change some things and I respect anyone who gets to that point. Get to know yourself and above all, be honest with yourself. Encourage your wife to do the same. You are not guaranteed an outcome of your choice but I really think it is your best shot. At any rate you will know yourself, feel confident in that knowledge and will be a better happier person for what ever life deals.

Anytime I start to rationalize my behavior I stop and ask myself what it is that I am not being completly honest with myself about.

I have to say, the first thing that started me to regain respect for my H was not when asked me what he had to do to stay but when he came to me before that and asked what was going to happen to us and I told him I was leaving. It may sound strange but we had not talked in so long and when we did I was the one who initiated it, that I was just grateful that he had the nerve to even come and ask.

Good luck and God bless you in your journey.
Free

Thanks for the good advice, Free!!

You sound like a wonderful caring person. Thank God for people like you. It really helps getting some insight from someone who can understand my situation.

Also, should I be telling her about other people's experiences, where things did work out when there was previously absolyutely no hope, such as your example, Free? Maybe if I told her about this, this would be like I was pressuring her even more to work on things? Maybe I should just keep quiet about what I am learning from this forum, and just let her see my progress from my actions, and maybe just check in with her once a week (however hard it may be, once I move out?)

Should I be praying for our marriage, even though she isn't interested. Is that bad to ask God for something that she doesn't want (us back together, with a permanently reformed husband?

Thanks, again

Gregg

Hi Gregg,
I really don't know what to tell your wife about others. It is possible she would come on here and just read your post and replys. I wouldn't obviously push her right now. I personally think it if fine for you to pray for God to restore your marriage. I did for years with no results. Each time it seemed the answer I got was to leave. Now this did not line up with what I thought God teaches but I finally decided to be obedient. His intention, I see now, was not to end my marriage but maybe to bring about events that would lead to restoring it.

How long have you been married? She may just be too tired of trying right now to even consider working on it. I know I got to that point. But just give her some time and respect what she thinks she wants right now. I know you are afraid of the outcome, I'm sure my H was he said so. He was so afraid he would never measure up. He didn't have to be anything so much as stop being abusive and unreasonable.

I know you probably want to do as much for her as you can right now but maybeshe just needs time. If you two can talk without argueing (we couldn't) then from a womans point of view (this ones anyway) it might help. My husband would always say, "Yeah it's all my fault always is" and I would get mad because he no more meant what he was saying that he believed it. But when he became humble, admitting his faults and fears it really softened my heart.

Hope some of this helps. I don't mind giving my opinion, but I don't know your wife or you and it's hard to say what will work and what won't. One thing that helped us is my H was confused because he didn't know what I wanted and was fearful of knowing. Per the counselors advice he would ask,"What do you need from me right now" and I was supposed to tell him. It really helped our communication. Sometimes I just wanted to be left alone and he respected that.

Let me know how things progress. I don't take credit for saving our marriage nor do I totaly blame him for all that went wrong. It takes two, wanting it to work and willing to make sacrifices.

Free

Thanks, Free.

We'ver been married about 5 1/2 years. Yes, she has told me she is too tired of trying.

What is hard for me is how should we talk, and what should our relationship be? She still comes over and gives me hugs, but asks me first if I need a hug. Yesterday, for example, I was at the computer, and she came up behind me and gave me a hug, since she was getting ready to go to bed. I leaned my head back and looked back at her, and had to stop myself from kissing her while in this position. Then I apologized to her and said, "Sorry, I was about to kiss you," to which she responded, "I know. Old habits die hard." She has just decided to sleep on the couch after even until about 2 days ago, when we still cuddled together just before going to sleep.

I don't know how to act towards her, since it seems that I should close myself off emotionally to her for a while, since it follows that she would not want me to be emotionally close to her.

Free, I am also interested in what you say about the two of you going to your counselor together. She says that she doesn't want to work on anything anymore. Why would she want to go to a counselor together, even her personal counselor. I did tell her about 5 days ago, don't you think we should sheclk with our counselor, or our His needs/Her needs support group to at least see what they say about the decision to just give up and have me move out. It does seem like ages ago, but she did at that time say that she wouldn't see our counselor until I saw a counselor on my own.

It seems at the time that you had given up, at least you were still seing a counselor, and how did he end up getting invited to go with you to counseling. I don't know how I would get her to agree to go together and ask like you said, "What do you need from me right now?" I'm sure she would say, I need you to move out and just be friends."

Thanks again
Gregg

Hi again,
Well,lets see... My H had asked to stay and one of the requirements was the he see a counselor. One day he had gone into town and I took my own car because I told him a had a C appointment. I called his cell and asked if he wanted to have lunch. He said yes where do you want to meet and I said how about the C's office and he said before or after your appointment? I said how about before and you can join me. Well, that's how we got to the C together. But keep in mind that he is wanting to stay and your wife is not to that point yet. As far as asking what she needs from you, it sounds as if you are afraid of her answer. I understand how you feel but I still think you should ask her and then respect her wishes.

Moving to a different point in the relationship is very hard when you are the one wanting it to work. I've been on that end of the spectrim too. I wanted things to be better for years and years and he would not talk to me and if I approached him with any suspicions he would tell me I was crazy and needed a psychiatrist. Well, eventually my suspicions were confirmed and he still was a jerk. I did everything I could to cater to him to make him less volatile but he had a problem. When I finally did not care anymore and was completly exhausted he wants me to give him another chance. I have to say I was very depressed swithching gears again because it took me so long to give it up. He said at the counselor he was confused and just had to guess at what I needed to make me happy, that's why we started asking each other what the other needed.

Like I said before, I don't know you or you wife and I can't say how things should be at any given time. But everyone likes to be respected and treated kindly. I think sometimes we do for our partner what we would like from them but it is not necessarily what they want. Respect her and her wishes at this time and don't pressure her. She sounds exhausted and it will just add to her stress.

My H was actually trying so hard to please me that it got on my nerves and at the same time he was very worried that he would mess things up. I couldn't put his mind at ease tho becase he had messed things up in the past.

If she will still hug you then she still cares for you. Do you think she is depressed or has any other medical conditions that may be bringing her down? I never stopped caring for my H as a person, it just got so bad for so long I could no longer cope with it. We never physically seperated tho. He was not about to leave and I wanted to be sure that's what I wanted before I walked out the door.

I think most of our married life I spent trying to make things better, then grieving the loss of it but in reality I was grieving an illusion of something I so desperatly wanted but never really had. I think now what we have is closer to that dream than any other time in our life.

It will just take some time and if she is not wanting to work on it, you can't make her. The best you can do is work on youself and she will notice the changes eventually. I can't say much more than that. I can't tell you what to do I only know what worked for me. My heart goes out to both of you because you are both hurting in some way or another. But somtimes the pain getting bad enough is the only way to realize the problem. If you never felt pain from an injury, you would not know you were injured and would cause further injury to youself.

I still think there is hope. Don't give up. Realize your mistakes but forgive your self and correct them. I have a feeling you will get your wish in the end, it may just be a ways down the road.

Free

Thanks Free,

I really look forward to reading what you have to say.

Well, since she has already gone and decided which bills we are each going to take while we are separated (or maybe divorced in her mind), I feel that might not be a viable option asking her what it would take for me to stay. She also spend a while today setting up her own bank account. Nonetheless, I will ask her as soon as I get the nerve up. It's just so expensive, and will drain any savings that we have I guess. I will respect what she says and not question it at this time. Part of the reason for asking me for a separation, I think is that I tend to get really sad when things aren't going very well. That may be why she doesn't seem to be considering having me stay.

Maybe I should ask her if I can stay, if I can get help not feeling overly sad while things are not going well? Maybe it would not be healthy for either of us for me to live in our house together for now. Part of the problem is that my son (her stepson) adds one more dimension, and having to move him out makes everything all that much harder, even though he lives with his mother most of the time.

Yes, she has been depressed for quite some time I think (about our whole situation),and has been taking medication for a while as well in order to deal with all the crap that has been happening for so long.

I think it is a good idea (what do you think), for me to make myself kind of scarce for a while,sothat I can give her some space. Giving someone the space needed in this kind of a situation doesn't seem very likely when we are both physically in the same house at the same time, even if in two different rooms.

Tonight for example, I told her, "I am going in to work for awhile. I have some things to work on." I then told her, "I'm not sure when I'll be back." She said thanks for letting me know. I am planning on doing this a lot more, even after finding my own place, as now I am planning to do a lot of reading and working on myself. I also will be working more on my financial situation, and brushing upon some things to move into a higher-paying position with the company that I work for.

I also will see my counselor next week (appointment is next Tuesday). Should I point out the things that I am working on kind of non-chantly, or be discrete about what I am working on (about myself) until she asks. Maybe it would feel like pressuring her, kind of like, "see, I am working on this, and see, I worked on this yesterday? Also, would you think that would be inappropriate to ask her to pray for us, or ask her if she wanted to pray together? If we prayed together, do you thing it would be appropriate for her to hear me pray to God for our marriage?

Gregg

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GreggC:
<strong>I also will see my counselor next week (appointment is next Tuesday). Should I point out the things that I am working on kind of non-chantly, or be discrete about what I am working on (about myself) until she asks. Maybe it would feel like pressuring her, kind of like, "see, I am working on this, and see, I worked on this yesterday? Also, would you think that would be inappropriate to ask her to pray for us, or ask her if she wanted to pray together? If we prayed together, do you thing it would be appropriate for her to hear me pray to God for our marriage?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gregg,

I wouldn't try to include her in any of the above. These are things you need to do for yourself. If she even gets the slightest inclination you are just doing it to save your marriage, it won't be "taken" by her in the way you would want it to be. Go to the counselor and make no mention of it. Pray by yourself and make no mention of it. Somehow, someway, God will let her know what is going on in your life...

Mike

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: SoTired2000 ]</small>

Thanks, Mike. I appreciate the feedback. I think that, difficult as it will be, I will do my best to do exactly what you have said.

Gregg

gregg,

There is a book a friend of mine gave me years ago when I was going through my separation. Since that time I have given as gifts, multiple copies of the book. It has a daily reading for each calendar day of the year. It is full of inspiration for those going through dark times in their lives - usually starting with a one or two sentence quote from the bible, then it gives a few paragraphs of stories, parables, other misc. stuff... Each day takes less then 5 minutes to read, but I will tell you what, so many times that day's reading ended up being just what I needed to hear for that day. The book is called Streams in The Desert.

Not sure how much you can take when you leave, but if you can fit it (it is pretty small), you may want to bring it along...

Mike

She says that she just has nothing left to give, and just wants more than anything just to be alone, and thinks that maybe she doesn't want to be with anyone in the future. - This is exactly what my wife says. She does not see how she can overcome her feelings of resentment towards me.

Well I have to say it took me a long time to have romantic feelings for him again even tho he did everything "right" I told him he would have to be patient and not expect too much too soon from me but I would try. - This is so good to hear. I have given hope because I believe the only way to save myself is to give her up emotionally, and just care for myself. I am just starting this and I will see if it works, but I can tell you, everything else I have tried has not worked.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is 6 months later now and I have to say things could not be much better. A lot of people told me he would not change and if he did it would not last. I do believe he has changed and I do believe it will last. Our relationship is different in a lot of aspects but better. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The seperation, especially if she wants it, might not be a bad thing. It will give you both time to think and ponder all that has happened and what really is important to you and her as well. It will also give some breathing room and eliminate potential arguements and love busting. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- This is the hardest part. I can not tell you the loneliness that you may feel or dispair that may come, but I believe that we need to do this. My W and I can not seem to get through too much with out anger and hostility rising. I would like to believe she starts it, but really I am just as much to blame. I believe that eventhough it goes against my nature, giving her the space to be by herself without my help is the only option.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By giving up completly, I believe I gave God the room to work. I didn't care anymore about the relationship but I did care about myself. I had to become mentally healthy enough and strong enough to survive. God did work a miracle here and in the process I became a whole person and so did my H. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- This is the course of action that I must take. I have reached a point where I can no longer put myself in harms way. I have forgiven my wife for her affair. I have tried to change myself to make our marriage work, but until she can "fix" herself and is ready to look at us, there is nothing to be done. I have given up in hope of finding peace and happiness - with or without her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can't fix a broken marriage with broken people. You sound like you are ready to change some things and I respect anyone who gets to that point. Get to know yourself and above all, be honest with yourself. Encourage your wife to do the same. You are not guaranteed an outcome of your choice but I really think it is your best shot. At any rate you will know yourself, feel confident in that knowledge and will be a better happier person for what ever life deals. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Amen to that. I need to take this to heart and practise and preach this method.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "What do you need from me right now" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- This is really important to remember, but really hard to listen to. Often what your spouse wants is not what you want. Just give up and in and you can be whole again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think sometimes we do for our partner what we would like from them but it is not necessarily what they want. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- I just had this conversation yesterday with my wife and it is true. We can not put our wishes on them. We need to let them find their own way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But somtimes the pain getting bad enough is the only way to realize the problem. If you never felt pain from an injury, you would not know you were injured and would cause further injury to youself. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Free you are very wise.

I have read this post with interest because I am in a similar situation with my wife. She had an A and has given up. I want our marriage to survive, and have tried all the techniques that I can think of. No I must stay true to the one that feels wrong. Give up hope so that I can heal and let her be. It is really out of my hands now.

I really lookforward to this installment. I have read with facination the advice you have gotten. I can speak from experience and what I have tried that is so opposite to the advice you have received does not seem to be working. For my health and sanity, I must care only for myself and children. Maybe she will return, but maybe not. Either way I will be stonger.

"What every does not break us, only makes us stronger"